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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now to your calls on how your friendships are going during COVID-19 and a deal in Demarest. You're on WNYC. Thanks so much for calling in. Hi.

?Female Caller: Hi, thanks so much for having me. Hope you're doing well.

Brian: I'm doing fine. See? There you go again, asking "how are you" when you don't really mean it. I'm just kidding.

?Female Caller: [laughs] Sorry. This has been really truly a challenging time for everybody. Sitting at home for the past couple of months, one of the main sources of communication with my friends is social media, whether that be through Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, you name it. I'm 21 so these are like our main social media channels. In the beginning of the pandemic, these were great tools to keep in contact with people, but over time, as people got sick and tired of the restrictions, these also became magnifying glasses into how people really truly cared about the community around them.

These friends were always telling me and they're like, "I'm here for you. I really care about you," but at the same time, seeing videos of them in parties, maskless, at the beach, you think, like, "Okay, they really care about me, but do they really care about the people around me? Do they really care about my health as well?"

Brian: Then what about your role in that? Did you get tempted to intervene by Instagram or some other way and say, "Hey, you're not wearing a mask and you're crowding with other people." What's your role as a friend in that moment?

?Female Caller: It's hard. I wanted to say something at first, and then I realized this is truly challenging for me. At this point, I'm kind of clinging on to friendships because it's the one thing I have. It's the one thing we all have right now, it's just social contact. I feel like if I were to go ahead to say something, I'll be like, "You're not doing this correctly." I feel like that would damage him and damage me in the end.

Brian: Tough position. Thank you so much. Please call us again. Michael in Hicksville, you're on WNYC. Hi, Michael.

Michael: Hey. My mom got sick in January and pretty quickly, I realized that certain things were not turning out for the better. She passed in May and I had always imagined-

Brian: Sorry.

Michael: -thank you-- At that point in my life that my community would really swell around me and I would just be embraced with love and support and instead, I've had a pretty consistent message of like, "Oh my God, I'm so sorry for your loss. I can come near you, but remember, we need to say at least six feet away, [chuckles] and we need to be masked," and everything like that. It really just was the most ostracizing and alienating experience I could have ever imagined.

Brian: Was it just the COVID conditions like being masked and staying six feet away that made it alienated, or were your friends not emotionally showing up for you?

Michael: It's kind of both. I started masking up and kind of self-quarantining basically back in February because I saw the writing on the wall. Although I believe that people truly wanted to be supported, I think that it was much easier to cling to fear and use the universal magic wand of like, "Oh, pandemic," to excuse themselves from acting extraordinarily during extraordinary times.

Brian: Also an excuse, it sounds like you're saying, because it's always awkward when a friend's loved one dies and maybe you don't know how to comfort them, or how much you're expected to show up or what their grief is going to be like when you're around them, and so maybe an excuse to not deal.

Michael: Totally. Yes, for sure. Then I will say this though, I did do a memorial service for her and because of the pandemic, I did have a chance to honestly just do it completely on my own terms. I did not feel like I was being herded into the whole funeral home, just your regular way of dealing with everything and defined it as something that would be special to me and really honor my mom. Although only about 15 people showed up, 540 people saw it on Facebook. [chuckles] That was a much greater reach to me and my mom was a nurse and she was very well-loved by her fellow nurses and in the community. I'm so happy that so many people got to honor her that way, but it was not what I personally was hoping that I would have to support me through that.

Brian: Michael, I'm sorry for loss and I'm really appreciative for your call because I think that all the nuances in that story will probably help people deal with situations that they are going to go through. Thank you very, very much.

Michael: Thank you, Brian. Okay.

Brian: Dawn in Hampton, Virginia. Dawn, you're on WYNC. Thanks for calling in.

Dawn: Hi, Brian.

Brian: Nice to hear from you, Dawn.

Dawn: Hi, Brian, thank you. I love your show and you always answer my calls. You're the only talk show, the only show that actually answers. [chuckles]

Brian: [laughs] Well, they're there to take calls, they should be answering. I'm honored that you've called us a few times from Hampton where, by the way, I used to live. I lived for a few years in Norfolk, technically in that region when I was just at a journalism school. I'm from here, from New York but when I got to journalism school, I was chasing journalism jobs around the country for a little while. I worked at FM99 Radio and WAVY-TV down there for a few years. Frankly, I love that area so it's nice to hear from you from Hampton. Anyway, tell us about your friendship story.

Dawn: Well, I'm an introvert. I love spending time by myself, but I love social media. Social media has opened up a door for me, opened up a door for my friendships to be enhanced in a lot of different ways. I'm able to express myself more in written form and communicate more my thoughts because of social media. I'm able to show photos and lifestyles and different lifestyle photos of myself that made fit for the mind but normally [unintelligible 00:07:35].

I would definitely say that me and my friends now are able to empathize with each other a lot more. We talk about those topics that we wouldn't normally delve into. I would say that the intimacy level has grown and we're getting to know each other on a more deeper level. I prefer talking on the phone, to be honest. I'm the type of person, I thought provoking questions. The last time, my friends have to say, "Don't analyze, [unintelligible 00:08:20]. Because of the [unintelligible 00:08:24], there's nothing else to do but analyze [chuckles] people, to be honest.

Brian: Isn't that funny?

Dawn: Yes. You really have the opportunity to just sit back and observe via social media and think about the person on the other end as someone who has thoughts, feelings, emotions just like you. I've got to be honest with you, there is one friend that I have yet to reconnect with because I'm still kind of angry with her from something that happened and I'm really kind of nervous about reconnecting with her, but I'm going to try, I'm going to try my best. I've had a chance to really think about that.

Brian: You have a little introvert's distance via social media to do it that way. I think that story that you told, I think there's a lot more of that out there than people usually acknowledge. I have a very good friend who's an introvert. In high school, people were worried that he was spending a lot of time on social media. It turned out that that was a way that this introvert who was shy in person, with his classmates in school, was making connections because there was something safer about doing it via social media, and then that helped deepen his in-person friendships.

Something about the way introverts, and the way you told the story, can connect with people with that distance of it being mediated by Facebook or Instagram or even a telephone as opposed to in-person, actually being able to lead to connection rather than disconnection. I think it happens more than people say.

Dawn: Exactly, because I have this-- I'm just going to say it. I've been diagnosed with generalized social anxiety, generalized anxiety disorder, and social anxiety is something that I struggle with. Social media is kind of a buffer and a gateway for me.

Brian: A Buffer and a gateway. Dawn, thank you so much. Keep calling us, please. Thank you very much. Great contribution. Nelson in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Nelson.

Nelson: Hey, Brian, thanks for taking my call. My close friendships have so deepened. A very small group, including my ex-wife, we both live alone and we always remained friends, but we were in touch maybe once a month. Now, we talk every single day. She's a person that I care so much about. I care that she's okay. That's become very important to me. Then two other friends that we spend-- We started out watching movies remotely and then I decided that that wasn't enough so we started reading poetry to each other, reading things that inspire us to each other and just talking for hours and hours.

There that group and then everyone else has kind of fallen away. I just don't have the energy. There's people I would love to talk to, but it just feels like too much.

Brian: It's deepened your relationships with your closest people and alienated you some from more peripheral friends.

Nelson: I wouldn't say alienated. I think that's too strong. I think it's the [crosstalk] energy level. It's what you said earlier where it feels like it would take so much to reconnect.

Brian: Nelson, thank you so much. Shana in Carroll Gardens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Shana.

Shana: Hi. How are you?

Brian: I'm okay. How are you?

Shana: I'm doing all right. I was calling because my father passed away in April. I'm in my 20s and I expected a lot of support from my friends. I know you had your other caller. We didn't have a funeral or anything along those lines, but I really didn't have anyone reaching out to me which was very upsetting. I've tried to figure out why people, they say their initial, "I'm sorry," but they don't follow up. They don't make the effort to make sure that you're okay, they don't realize that. It's not something you just move past.

I don't know if it's a generational thing or if it's American thing, but I did notice that some of my clients- I have my own company- who are older than I am. are the ones that were actually reaching out. I had someone send me a basket of food from Italy and just really thoughtful things to help me get through. It's really interesting that I was able to get that support from some group and it wasn't my friends. This whole situation has definitely taught me a lot about my friends and also, I started putting the message out there that my father had passed away because it seemed like a lot of people didn't really know anyone who had died from this and we're not taking it very seriously.

I just started, like, when I would talk to people, because I've been working through this, it happens, I sometimes would mention that my father had passed. I actually ended up speaking to a lot of strangers extensively about what happened and getting a lot of support from them.

Brian: Where? Social media, or where did you have those stranger contacts?

Shana: I have a dog-walking, sitting and training company based in Dumbo and I walk around a lot, just meeting people, sometimes, people I casually knew in the neighborhood. One time, I stopped at a cafe to get a drink for myself and the dogs some water and the cafe's owner's friend was standing outside and watched the dog for me and then we had this nice conversation and walked for a little bit, we both had our masks on and such. This was back in May. Sometimes at the grocery store with the person checking me out, they asked how I was and I said, "Not really doing that great because I had lost someone."

It was really interesting to get the support from New Yorkers that were random.

Brian: That were random. It's interesting to me that both of the calls that we got you and the earlier caller who also lost a parent to COVID and felt like his friends weren't there for him that much, you both identified yourself as in your 20s. I don't know if this is it or a part of it, but 20s is early to lose a parent. It could be that your friends, not many of them have experience with it, whereas the older people you just met- and this is what triggered the thought- by the time you get into your 40s or whatever, there's more people who've lost a parent and they kind of know what it feels and how to deal.

Shana: I will say though, I want to just add this for anyone who has lost someone during COVID and needs support, I actually joined a bereavement group that is all through video conferencing right now. I didn't even really kind of know what that was. Before this, I never really thought that was a part of grieving, and I'm so glad I joined it because that was like my rock through this, knowing people that are going through something similar and we were supporting each other and similar experiences and taking COVID seriously and kind of seeing what everyone else is doing.

To anyone else who's lost someone, it doesn't even have to be to COVID, it could just be during this time, it's such a difficult time to lose someone. I couldn't be with any family members, I still haven't seen my mother or any of my other close family because they're all in at risk groups. To have people to support you, you really need people that are on the same wavelength as you-

Brian: That's a great tip.

Shana: -to support you and that was really it. That was through BCS, Brooklyn Counseling Services. I just thought I would mention that.

Brian: Thank you so much for that. I'm sure that's going to be helpful for people who may not have thought about that. As you say, whether they're in grief because of losing someone to COVID or for other reasons, that's great to know that that's out there and out there in a virtual way these days. Thanks and we're here for you, at least as part of your radio community for whatever that's worth. Keep calling us, okay?

Shana: It's worth a lot. Thank you so much.

Brian: Thank you. All right, we'll do one more. Angela in Brooklyn. Angela, you're on WNYC. Hi there.

Angela: Hi, how are you doing? What I wanted to say is that it actually has made my friends and I closer because we don't have the distractions. I'm a person- I love to go out dancing. I can't do that or shopping. We don't have those distractions so it's important that when I'm going through something and my close circle of friends, it's four of us, that we can reach out to one another. There is a lot of texting back and forth, like, this is what we're going through for the day and that's important. As I was saying to the screener last night, one of my girlfriends who has lupus and so she doesn't want to socialize too much. I was on the phone with her for over three hours because she was alone and frustrated.

I now understand why emotional, my mental health is important at this point. Initially, it wasn't a problem for me, but I definitely see where it can get to you and the friendships and communication are much more substantial. Hello?

Brian: I'm listening.

Angela: Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

Brian: It's like the small stuff is going away and the really meaningful parts are persistent, it sounds like you're saying.

Angela: Right. Not only that because what happens, this group of us, we have retreated, we're no longer in a building, and we would spend time addressing certain issues in the morning or at lunchtime and we don't have that building to bring us all together anymore. We still reach out and the other thing that I realized quickly is that the five of us are very strong, independent women and we are quite comfortable being alone but once we saw one another, I think we appreciate the company and I think that we didn't take the friendship for granted but that connection to other people for granted because we are so comfortable being alone.

Then we did see one another for one outing, it was like, wow, it was good to see those friends and I really appreciated their friendship and I put things in perspective. Like I said, we're all good being alone and living on our own, but when we saw one another, we definitely-

Brian: That's like, "Wow, people, actual human beings, my friends."

Angela: -yes, my close friends, the people that we pour our heart out in the morning before classes, going at lunch. I have to work a little bit so now, it's text because this is what we're going through. Every time someone is going through something, we reach out so definitely, we have people in the friendships.

Brian: Angela, thank you so much. Please keep calling us. Thanks to all of you for your wonderful calls on friendships in the time of COVID. Also, thanks to Brian Lehrer show producer who had this idea that this would make a good call-in for the show and it certainly did. Thank you all for those calls. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Coming up in a minute, we are going to meet somebody who's been on the show many times but is now apparently headed to becoming New York's next member of Congress. We'll reveal who that is because it just became official that he won his primary.

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