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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. To close out the show today, we're inviting calls from morning people and night people on how you adjust when the clocks move back an hour like they did last Saturday night, or when they move forward an hour like they will do next March, 212-433-WNYC, and also on the idea that there's a tyranny of morning people in our society. Where does this idea come from? Well, it comes from Tom Nichols with an article in The Atlantic.

This is for new morning people out there. It says-- Let's see. Are there any of you out there who resent morning people? That's our question. That's part of the question. Maybe it's because you naturally prefer the night and would like to rise after the sun every morning no matter what time of year it is. Or perhaps it's the performance the morning people put on when they explain their thorough morning routines that begin at 5:00 AM or sometimes earlier.

There seems to be a glorification of the early risers in our culture that starts with us turning back our clocks an hour so that you can wake up in sunlight and is further exemplified by our early start times for work, school, and other non-negotiable life activities in our society. Do you agree with Tom Nichols in The Atlantic when he says it's time to, "Overthrow the Tyranny of Morning People"? Morning people, you yourselves may call in and respond to this, or night people, is this striking a chord with you? 212-433-WNYC.

While this may sound rich coming from the host of a morning talk show, I can assure you that our team is not full of morning people. Even if I were left to my own devices, I would probably stay up till 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning and sleep till 9:00 or 10:00. That's not the work schedule I'm on and that's fine, but I know about body clocks. Why do they put out the news for morning drive so early? Oh my goodness. We know why. That's when people commute. Those of you who one-up each other about your arrival time at the office or go on 5-mile runs before the sun rises.

I do my exercising after my workday. I couldn't imagine getting up and going for a run or something like that before starting to get ready for this ten o'clock show. Why are you like this? Why does our culture seem to glorify this way of life? Listeners, 212-433-WNYC. How do those of you who aren't built for morning survive under the tyranny of morning people as Tom Nichols calls it in his Atlantic article? Have you ever had to quit a job because the start time was just too early? I did.

I once did a morning drive at a radio station. I had to be there at 4:30 in the morning, I could not handle it. I found another job as quick as I could. Or alternatively, are you stuck in a lifestyle that isn't compatible with your body clock the other way? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. I'll just mention, before we take a break and go to the callers, that one group of people, perhaps the most imprisoned by morning culture is teenagers. Think about it. This year, many schools in New York City changed their class start times.

The only thing is they made them earlier, going from 8:30 to 8:15 or even eight o'clock classes. With teenagers needing 8 to 10 hours of sleep on average according to the science that's been done, isn't forcing them to wake up in the dark and commute to school harmful to their health and well-being? I guess that's one of the reasons we turn back the clocks. Morning people and night people of the world, can we all get along? 212-433-WNYC. We'll take your calls after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We've got a lot of morning and night people lined up on the phones. Somebody just wrote, "If I call my dad at like 8:00, 9:00 in the morning on the weekend and he answers, 'Good afternoon.' No joke. He has tortured me on this all my life. He thinks anyone who wakes up past 6:00 AM is just lazy. It's wild. It was very hard in my teenagehood." Then there's Andrew in Brooklyn who's calling about his dogs. Andrew, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Andrew: Yes. Good morning, Brian. I feel like I've been waiting my whole life to say, "Long-time listener, first-time caller."

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] Glad you're on.

Andrew: I just wanted to say real quick that regardless of how I may feel about it, my four-year-old pit bull feels very differently and does not understand why it's dark and she's not getting dinner. I'm sure people with human kids can relate to this, but every pet owner out there I'm sure has some version of this. It has not affected my schedule so much for myself, but definitely for my dog, which is then in turn affecting my schedule.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. I know as a parent that when you turn the clock back, you don't really get an extra hour of sleep when your kids are little, you get an extra hour of wake because they still wake up after the X hours of sleep that they slept, and then you're with them for the rest of the day. It doesn't matter whether the clock says it's seven o'clock or, oh, now the clock says it's six o'clock, you're going to be up for that whole day, plus one. Jennifer in Middlesex County, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jennifer.

Jennifer: Hi, Brian. How are you?

Brian Lehrer: Okay.

Jennifer: I grew up on a farm and you can't get up late. It's just wrong. It feels completely wrong. I get up at 5:00 every morning the same way in that if it's a nice day or even a slightly nice day, I've got to be outside because it's wrong to be inside. It's wrong to stay in bed past 5:00.

Brian Lehrer: Jennifer, thank you very much, after growing up on a farm. Linda in Kinnelon, you're on WNYC. Hi, Linda.

Linda: Hi. I was a graphic designer in my early life and I freelanced. I never took a job because I couldn't get there at 9:00. They'd say, "Well, [unintelligible 00:06:56] on this project, please get here at 9:00." I'd say, "No, I'll get there at 9:30, 10:00. I just want to avoid rush hour and I'd be glad to work until 6:30 or 7:00, no worries." They accepted that. They always did. Now I have my own practice, I'm a psychotherapist in my second career, and there's no way I wake up on my own, never to an alarm clock between 9:00 and 9:30. I don't understand the people that could wake up, especially in the dark in the winter and go exercise. I'm with you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: You and the previous caller could have a debate. Harper in Port Chester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Harper. [silence] Do I have your name right?

Harper: Hi, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Hi.

Harper: Yes, you do. Hi. I just want to say, I deal badly with a time change. It's not even getting up earlier or getting up late, it's just having everything just feel off. It messes me for a solid week, twice a year. I remember we were going to try to get rid of this entirely last year and then, unfortunately, it kind of fizzled out. Really, what we should be doing, at least for a lot of places that don't need it, we should just be, instead of moving the clock, working a little bit less in the darker months.

Office workers really don't get anything much done from 4:00 to 5:00, especially when they're feeling tired, because every time they look outside, it's dark.

Brian Lehrer: Harper, thank you very much. Lisa in Ridgefield calls herself a hostage to the morning. Is that right, Lisa? Did I get that right?

Lisa: Oh, yes. I am a hostage to the morning. I spent my entire professional life in the music business. I didn't have to get to work before 10:00, and I was happy to stay in the office till 9:00, stay up until 2:00, go to shows. Then we had a kid, and we were late parents and late-in-life parents. My kid is 13 and gets up and makes his own breakfast and leaves for school with no one's assistance because my husband is in the same situation. We're like, "Bye, have a great day," from bed.

[laughter]

Brian Lehrer: He's like, "Hi, ma. Hi, dad, I'm off."

Lisa: Oh, he knows. He's just like, "All right, bye," and I'm like, "Bye."

Brian Lehrer: It's usually the opposite though, right?

Lisa: "Don't miss the school bus."

Brian Lehrer: Isn't it usually the opposite-

Lisa: It's [crosstalk] yes.

Brian Lehrer: -we have to wake up our teenage kids?

Lisa: It's an enormous amount of guilt for me too.

[laughter]

Brian Lehrer: Lisa, thank you very much. Here's Maddie in Fair Lawn, who I think can relate to Lisa. Hi, Maddie, you're on WNYC.

Maddie: Hi, Brian. First-time caller, long-time listener.

Brian Lehrer: Glad you're on.

Maddie: I was born a night owl, and there's a lot of research about how people are born with a specific circadian rhythm depending on their genes and their chronotype. I've always fantasized about a society where different people can adapt to their schedules based on their specific circadian rhythm, but of course, that wouldn't be really realistic because I have a daughter who is a super, super early bird. That's how she was born and that's always how she's been. The struggle is real, and I wish there was an answer.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, the night person mom with the early bird kid. Maybe you can take a lesson from the last caller whose kid gets up and makes their own breakfast. [chuckles]

Maddie: Oh, she does. She's been like a threenager since she was a toddler, but of course, we have to be awake when they're little. It's nice when they get old enough to do these things by themselves.

Brian Lehrer: Maddie, thank you. Hang in there. Hillary in Ridgefield Park, you're on WNYC. Hi, Hillary.

Hillary: Hi, good morning. I'm an early bird. I always have been, but I have to say, for whatever reason, this week, turning the clocks back, I [unintelligible 00:10:53] wreak havoc. I keep getting up at four o'clock, I'm wide awake, I start doing things, and then about two o'clock, I start nodding out. Fortunately, I'm retired, so I can take a nap, but I think we really want to stop with the clock changes and maybe let it just go all one way for the whole year.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. I think Nora on Staten Island has maybe the best reason why that will be hard to do. Nora, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Nora: Good morning, Brian. I am also one of those people who's a long-time listener, but I've called before, so I can't say the second part. I am concerned about children waiting for the school bus. If this was permanently daylight savings time, that would be at eight o'clock in the morning. If not dark, it would just be beginning to get light, and that's a dangerous situation for them to be on corners waiting for school buses.

Brian Lehrer: Nora, thank you very much. I think we have time for one more, maybe two. Andy in Riverdale, you're on WNYC. Hi, Andy.

Andy: Hi. I just wanted to share a quote from Mark Twain. He said, "If God wanted mankind to experience the sunrise, he would have scheduled it later in the day."

Brian Lehrer: [laughs] Awesome, Andy. Awesome. How about that? He did that so efficiently. We're going to get one more in here. Oh, the musician who was used to the night schedule. I think that's the opposite of Thomas in Brooklyn who works in the film industry. Thomas, we got about 30 seconds for you. Hi.

Thomas: Hey. I think being able to be exposed to as much light as possible is best. If we can change our clocks, then that's okay. I wake up at 3:00, and I see the whole world wake up and the city every time we do a film shoot. I know that people respond to light better, whether or not they are willing to admit it.

Brian Lehrer: There you go. Personally, I'm with Mark Twain, but thank you, morning people. Thank you, night people. For those of you who are daylight-saving time fans, only four more months. In fact, it's four months from tonight that we will turn the clocks forward again, and the sun will stay out later in the day. Thanks for all your calls.

That's The Brian Lehrer Show for today, produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, Esperanza Rosenbaum, and Zach Gottehrer-Cohen, who produces A Daily Politics Podcast. Our intern this term is Muskan Nagpal, and we had Shayna Sengstock at the audio controls. I'm Brian Lehrer. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned for Alison.

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