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[A House Made of Splinters' snippet]

Brian Lehrer: That's a clip from a new documentary following the lives of children in eastern Ukraine, called A House Made of Splinters. You hear the kids being awakened and led through some morning exercises there. It's the next installment in our series all this week, talking to the makers of the five nominees for the best feature documentary, Oscar. Yes, it said in Ukraine, but no it's not about the war.

Although the build-up to the war and the fighting that preceded last year's invasion only heightened the crises faced by the families in that part of the country. This documentary is an intimate look at the lives of children living in a halfway house between home and foster care, or an orphanage. We're joined now by Simon Lereng Wilmont, the Danish Peabody Award-winning documentary director of this film, and his previous film set in the same region, The Distant Barking of Dogs. Welcome to WNYC, and congratulations on this nomination Simon Lereng Wilmont.

Simon Lereng: Thanks a lot, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: We're all very aware that this week, tomorrow, I believe, marks one year since Russia invaded Ukraine. This documentary, of course, predates the invasion, but tell us what the situation was in this part of Eastern Ukraine when you were filming.

Simon Lereng: This point in time in 2019 and 20, the frontline has settled down in the Eastern parts of Ukraine, and not much movement was going on. It was like a low-simmering conflict at that point in time.

Brian Lehrer: I read the shelter where you filmed was relocated to Western Ukraine, after the invasion, which was originally focused on the east. Have you heard any recent updates?

Simon Lereng: Yes, there's updates for all the kids, we're trying to keep track of all of them and to help if we are able, and so it can become quite a long story, to do all the updates. I think for people who have seen the film or people who are going to see the film, I'm happy to say that one of the positive things that has happened is that one of the young protagonists called the [unintelligible 00:02:41] is actually just one month ago, been adopted by a seemingly really well to do and resourceful family. That's at least something.

Brian Lehrer: You don't really see any of that military conflict in the film. Was that by choice, or were the kids not directly impacted by it at that point?

Simon Lereng: Some of the kids had actually been impacted because in 14, 15, the front line actually wavered along this city also where the shelter is. At least one of the kids in the movie actually also still carries scars from a rocket attack, but at this point in time where I was filming the film, I wanted to stay true to their reality, which was that yes they could hear bombs going on, on clear days, the front line is 20 kilometers away, but they didn't pay much attention because it has become part of their everyday sounds that they would hear in this city.

Brian Lehrer: I think the word that comes up most in descriptions of the film is intimate. You focus on the stories of three or four of the kids and you're right there with them as they have heart-to-hearts with their friends, talk on the phone with their mothers, sneak cigarettes, or cry over separating from friends and siblings. There's no English in the film, besides the occasional slang or pop culture reference, so I can't really give listeners a sense of how deeply personal these exchanges were, viewers, get subtitles. How did you get that close?

Simon Lereng: I think one of the reasons is that I do my own cinematography, so it's not a big crew, it's actually just me and my local Ukrainian assistant director. Which makes it I think easier for the kids to relate to me or to us. Also, I spent quite some time hanging out with them and also got very close to the staff whom they also trust and love. Being interested in their lives and lending an ear to their troubles and just being truthful and honest, I think, and respecting their boundaries is a huge part of doing a film like this.

Brian Lehrer: Did anybody listening right now see A House Made of Splinters and want to ask Simon the filmmaker a question? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. What kind of permissions did you need to get, by the way, since these kids are in a very vulnerable state?

Simon Lereng: We need to get the same permission set as would have been an orphanage in Europe. That means participation. I don't know the right English word for it, but to get it signed. There was a huge job going on also to secure these permissions. Working together with the city administration and the caregivers, we had sometimes to collect up to three different permissions either from the parents or from foster parents, or the caregivers of the kids, depending on where they were in the system and their way through the system because that would obviously also change. I'm happy to be able to say that we actually have all of these permissions for all the kids at the shelter in the time that we were there filming.

Brian Lehrer: Why do you think they gave you permission? Do they want to film made about these kids in a vulnerable state, if they were parents, or if they were people who ran the shelter?

Simon Lereng: I know from the people who ran the shelter that they saw my previous film, which is also about a kid growing up amid swallow time near the frontline, and they were very impressed by this one. Having established such a trusting collaboration, where I would let them into my thoughts and my process and what I wanted to do and really being open to their suggestions and to where boundaries were set and stuff. They felt that I could be trusted and I would portray their reality correctly and in a decent manner, which I hope that people will also think when they see the film.

Brian Lehrer: Tell us about the shelter. How does it work? It seems like it's a different system from what we have here.

Simon Lereng: Yes, when a child is taken from a family that are not able to take care of the child, probably the child goes to Margarita Shelter. They can stay in the shelter for the nine months that the state has to decide the onward's fate of this child, which would be either to go back to their parents if they sober up, or if they managed to do something about the problem that put the child in the shelter, or they can go to a foster family. The third and last thing that could happen is that the state simply takes custody over the child and they're sent to a state orphanage.

Brian Lehrer: There's been a change of thinking here, where children's service agencies are trying to make removing kids from the home a very last resort, instead, they rather emphasize doing more to support the family and keep it intact. The decision here is wrapped up in questions of race and class. From what you saw, is that a debate there?

Simon Lereng: The kids in Margarita Shelter, for most of them it's not the first time that they're actually at the shelter. It may be the second or even the third time. The parents are given quite a lot of options or chances, as far as I understand from the caseworkers that I was working with, but also Ukraine tries to-- I know for a long time the policy has been to try and close down institutionalized orphanages, and actually to promote what you call foster families which could have it smaller units that takes up to maybe I think 10 kids, which is a normal family. It creates more of a homely atmosphere and a much smaller unit so that the kids get to know each other on a completely different level. That's what they're trying to do as much as possible, but this has of course been very difficult with war breaking out last year.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. We heard a snippet from the opening minutes of the film as we introduce the segment where Mrs. Arena goes from bunk to bunk, gently waking the kids up, sometimes with little whistling, and gets them moving. It's really lovely and shows that there is love in this place. Is that what you saw there despite the circumstances, it's not all grim and cold.

Simon Lereng: Yes, that's exactly why I chose to make a film in Margarita Shelter because they try so hard to make it like a home for the kids while they're there. They were doing gymnastics and they were hugging the kids and trying to teach them music. They weren't opposed to them actually making noise and running around as long as it didn't get out of control. They were trusting and warm environment. I feel the film also reflects this and that's what I fell in love with at this place.

Brian Lehrer: The scenes of the kids playing can be particularly telling. I'm thinking of where they built some kind of tent and the boys had flashlights and were telling scary stories like you might around a campfire. Only these were stories of their parents getting drunk and vile and truly scary stuff for them.

Simon Lereng: Yes, you're right. I was actually also surprised when that happened. I was under the impression that they would tell ghost stories to each other. That's why I was going to film this situation. When I understood that they were actually sharing dreadful stories from their own life, it also dawned on me that the way that they do it, you have one kid telling a story and then you have another kid chiming in saying, "Yes, I know this and I have exactly the same story. My father, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." They laugh a little bit and they exchange. I think for me it almost felt like they were in a way, seeking comfort in that the others were from the same lives as they were.

Brian Lehrer: You follow the story of three kids, mostly Eva, who is eventually able to move in with a grandmother, and Sasha, who meets a foster mother and Coya. He's a bit of a contradiction. He acts out a lot, it seems. Shoplifting, smoking, generally getting in trouble but he's very loving with his younger siblings and the social worker seems to have a soft spot for him. He's the one who you mentioned earlier got adopted, right?

Simon Lereng: That's true, yes.

Brian Lehrer: Will you be attending the award ceremony and what would it mean to you or the potential futures for these particular kids or other kids in similar circumstances in Ukraine if you win the best feature Oscar documentary?

Simon Lereng: Listen, just the nomination itself has created so much focus on the film in Ukraine also, which were one of the hopes that we had with this film to create as much focus so that Margarita and the other caregivers could talk to the political system about all the things. The suggestions that they have that might make this field a little bit better in the future. In a lot of ways, I feel like we are already winners. We've been able to secure funds enough to get the Ukrainian team to travel with us to attend the ceremony.

Obviously not the kids because that I think would be too difficult transitions from their normal life back and forth. The caregivers, Margarita, and Olga will be with us there at the award ceremony. For me also with such a strong field, honestly, of documentary this year I just feel really honored and so proud that we got nominated.

Brian Lehrer: Simon Lereng Wilmont is director of A House Made of Splinters, one of the five feature-length documentaries up for an Oscar. The Oscar ceremony is on March 12, and I should mention that it was just made available more widely for streaming. You can see it now on Prime Video and Apple TV as well as Voodoo. Did I get all the streaming services in there Simon?

Simon Lereng: I think so, yes. As far as I know it's on iTunes and Amazon Prime, and PBS POV series also picked it up. We will be screening this summer on the national TV.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Good luck at the Oscars. Thank you. Listeners, we've got two more of these nominated documentaries to go. We'll talk to the directors tomorrow and Friday.

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