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Brigid Bergin: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist Newsroom filling in for Brian Lehrer who's off today. On today's show, as we often are in June, we've got one eye on the Supreme Court as it releases more opinions this morning, plus we review the latest from the House Select Committee hearings investigating the January 6th insurrection including testimony about the extent to which Former President Trump put pressure on the Department of Justice to help him remain in office after losing the election.

Then we'll hear about a new study examining PMDD, Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, this is not just standard PMS, and the toll it takes on people's physical and mental health, and finally, a conversation about pride. How are you celebrating two years after COVID suspensions and the importance of finding joy in community at all ages and stages, but first, New York State lawmakers are preparing to respond to yesterday's Supreme Court decision which could make it easier for people to carry concealed weapons in public.

A brief recap, it was a six to three decision with Justice Clarence Thomas writing the opinion for the conservative-leaning majority. It stemmed from a case here in New York where two gun owners from the Albany area applied for concealed carry handgun permits for self-defense. They were denied those permits because they didn't meet the proper cause threshold. That was set by the state's 1911 law requiring gun owners to prove they have a specific need for self-defense.

The court found the law violated the 2nd and 14th amendments. Thomas wrote that the second amendment does in fact protect an individual's right to carry a handgun for self-defense outside the home. He also wrote, "We know of no other constitutional right that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officials some special need."

Just moments after that opinion was issued, Governor Kathy Hochul began a press conference where she was scheduled to sign legislation related to school safety. Hochul was angry but resolute and vowed New York State would take action to respond to this ruling. I want to play about a minute of what she said yesterday.

Governor Kathy Hochul: We feared this day would come, and it came. At this very moment, we were about to sign a law into place, the origins of which was a loss of a 14-year-old child, Alyssa, in her school. The confluence of these two events is shocking, but again I'm going to reassure this state. We are reading the language as we speak.

We've been preparing, but we have been working with a team of experts, legal experts from all over this country, and organizations like every town, true leaders to make sure that we are prepared. I'm prepared to call the legislature back into session to deal with this. We've been in contact with the leadership.

We're just looking at dates. Everyone wants a little bit of time to digest this, but I will say we are not powerless in this situation. We're not going to seed our rights that easily despite the best efforts of the politicized Supreme Court of the United States of America.

Brigid Bergin: That brings me to our first guest, New York State Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins, to talk more about what those legislative options are, when that special section may happen, and how the primary fits into all of this. Also, since we are on SCOTUS watch again this morning, she may also get the first opportunity to weigh in on any other big decisions emanating from the court today. Never a dull moment. Majority Leader, welcome back to WNYC.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Hi, Brigid. It's always good to be with you. I know we're all bracing for what the Supreme Court might do yet again. Unbelievable.

Brigid Bergin: Yes. On the edge of our seats. Listeners, if you have a question for the Senate Majority Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, about the ruling in this gun case legislation being considered by Albany in response or really anything else, give us a call at 212-433-9692, that's 212-433-WNYC or tweet @BrianLehrer.

Majority leader, there was certainly some signs that the US Supreme Court was headed in a more conservative direction on the second amendment and other issues before yesterday and yet, how surprised were you by this ruling?

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: I think, like everybody, you always want to believe that people can have a common-sense approach to the issues of the day. This law that they were discussing is 111 years old. It is a law, again, that has been on the books long before. I'm sure we've seen what I consider to be a uniquely American epidemic of gun violence. It is a problem.

Here we are after Valdi, after Buffalo, after Tulsa. Since January, more than 270 incidents of mass shootings, not even talking about the day-to-day gun violence that plagues our communities, not even talking about the amount of people who use guns to end their lives, not considering at all where we are at this moment was something that I didn't believe the Supreme Court would be able to ignore in good conscience, but yet they did, the majority did.

They decided that guns are really more important as far as I'm concerned than saving the lives of the people in this country than really addressing the fact that we have a uniquely American epidemic around gun violence, and yet they want to just make sure everybody, I guess, walks around with a gun so that we can defend ourselves. That's the other thing. You have this constant, especially, I've got to say, among my Republican colleagues, this constant-- Everything is fear, fear, fear.

This constant thing of, I guess, you're in danger if you walk down the street so you got to have a gun, your neighbor has to have a gun. We know that that's not going to solve any problems in terms of the violence in this country. In fact, it's only going to make it worse. It was very, very disturbing. Brigid, I hope that they would've done something different, but they didn't.

Brigid Bergin: Well, and let's talk for a moment this idea of the fear that perhaps some of your constituents in your district in Yonkers or folks here in New York City or really anywhere in the State may be waking up with today worried that suddenly more people have this right to carry concealed weapons in public today. Let's just make this clear, has anything actually changed yet?

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Well, I suppose [laughs] just what you said. The people now, apparently, the process that we have as far as they're concerned is not a process that we could go forward with, so nothing has changed as of this moment, but clearly, it will change. People will not have to go through as far as they're concerned, the process that they believe is subjective.

I guess that gets back to your point, when you began, is that New York will not stand idly by. We are all prepared to go back to take a look prior to going back, obviously, what we can do in order to adhere to the Supreme Court's decision but still make sure that we have the maximum protection for New Yorkers who, frankly, don't want to live in fear of every other person carrying a gun on the subway or in the grocery stores. We will tackle this and we will tackle this very soon.

Brigid Bergin: Let's talk about that session. Governor Hochul said she's been in conversation with you and Speaker Heastie. How soon are we likely to see that happen?

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: It's up to her, but I think it'll happen very soon, I would say, within the next week or two. We had not anticipated that this-- Again, we hoped [laughs] we wouldn't have to do this, but we fully anticipated that should we have to do this, we would have to respond as quickly as possible. We're looking at next week.

Brigid Bergin: That's great. We have lots of callers with questions.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Already.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to start with Dan in Manhattan.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: People are awake. Good. Stay awake.

Brigid Bergin: That's right. Dan, welcome to WNYC. You are on with Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins.

Dan: Thanks so much for having me. I just want to respond to Mrs Cousin's comments about New Yorkers having the right to feel safe. I live in Manhattan. I can tell you I already don't feel safe before this law. I never have been a gun owner. I don't plan on ever being a gun owner, but when the criminals on the streets already have guns illegally, why shouldn't ordinary citizens have the right to protect themselves? I understand and know the literature around public health and guns and that guns don't necessarily make you more safe, but if the criminals already have guns and I feel unsafe in the subways, on the streets of New York, what's to stop me from legally having a gun? Why shouldn't I be able to keep myself safe?

Brigid Bergin: Dan, thanks so much for your question.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Well, thanks, Dan. I don't mean it's not that you shouldn't have the right to feel safe or shouldn't have the right to have a gun. I think what we're seeing, however, is that New York has been trying to stem the flow of guns. We have the unfortunate situation that the rest of the country doesn't. We have an iron pipeline, guns flow in here, and then we are left to deal with it. Clearly, we have an issue of too many guns in our streets. The idea is not that we don't want everybody to--

It's not that we do not want people to feel safe or protect themselves, but we, I think, collectively know as a society that everybody shooting each other up is not really the right answer. The right answer is to have a federal approach to stemming the flow of guns, to taking guns off of the streets, to making sure that people have-- the guns are not falling into the wrong hands, and really working as a nation to deal with our national problem.

My desire-- I was happy again on a federal level that finally even though it's a small step that some step was taken because even on a national level and even the most conservative places people understand that nobody is going to feel safe if people can just walk into schools and shoot everybody up. There's nothing worse than having a frightened person on the other end of a gun. It's going to lead to mayhem.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to take another caller. Let's go to Mitchell in Manhattan. Mitchell, welcome to WNYC.

Mitchell: Yes, welcome. I'd like just to say that it's my belief that the politicized Supreme Court made its ruling setting. It falls within the parameters of the constitutional rights, but does New York State, flexing its state's rights and private businesses, can they state they do not wish patrons entering their businesses with firearms? Do businesses have this right? That's where we need to be at because if I'm not safe feeling that way going into any business, I won't patronize it, so theaters, other things.

Brigid Bergin: Mitchell, thank you so much. You opened the door to the next line of our conversation in terms of what some of the legislative options are for the state. Majority Leader, the opinion yesterday seemed to leave open the potential that the legislation could restrict guns in "sensitive places" but it was unclear what exactly qualifies a sensitive place.

Just as Thomas defined what would not, writing that there is no historical basis for New York to effectively declare the island of Manhattan a sensitive place simply because it is crowded and protected generally by the New York City Police Department. What kinds of sensitive places could potential legislation cover? Mitchell raised the issue of businesses, schools. What else is the state legislature looking at?

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: I appreciate Mitchell's line of thought because quite honestly who would've ever thought that we would be applauding state's rights, but, yes, I think our state and every state frankly is almost the last line of defense for some of these indefensible decisions. I think we can look at what "a sensitive place" is. Maybe the island itself of Manhattan would not be, but again do you want somebody shooting you up on the subway, as you said, in the movie theaters?

Oh, my goodness. I think part of the situation that we will be dealing with in the upcoming week is how we can define these sensitive places, where are these sensitive places, and at least find ways to restrict guns from being in-- Did you see what I've seen?

Brigid Bergin: Yes, I did.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Roe is out.

Brigid Bergin: We are coming to you on that next. Oh, my goodness was--

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: You [unintelligible 00:15:12]. You predicted it.

Brigid Bergin: Well, I feel grateful to have someone in your position here to respond. For our listeners who have not seen the news yet, the Supreme Court decision in the Dobbs case has been released. As SCOTUSblog writes, "Roe and Casey are overruled." Justices Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan wrote in the dissent. The opinion is by Justice Alito as expected. From SCOTUSblog, it says, "The constitution does not confer a right to abortion. Roe and Casey are overruled, and the authority to regulate abortion is returned to the people and their elected representatives." Majority Leader, let's pivot. Last week you joined Governor Hochul.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Like I said, so many years ago, in 1970, I was pregnant in New York as a teenager, and I had a choice. To be in a place now in 2022 where my daughter my granddaughter because of this decision would have a choice dependent on where in the country they live is to me such a huge step backwards and just such a violation of women's rights to bodily autonomy and a slap in the face of the progress that we've been able to make in so many areas.

Again, it is why we matter as people, why elections matter, why not taking any of these things for granted matter because depending upon who sits in these seats, the rights that we enjoy as American citizens can be taken away by people who have a very narrow agenda and a very, very small scope of what it is that your freedom really looks like.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, if you're just joining us, my guest is Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins. We started our conversation talking about yesterday's ruling on concealed carry of handguns in New York, and we are making a shift because a new SCOTUS ruling has come out related to abortion. Roe has been overturned. Join us in this conversation. Call us at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC or tweet @BrianLehrer. It's important to have your voices in this conversation.

If you called us about to weigh in on the gun decision, I'm sorry, we are going to clear the lines right now, and we are going to open the phones up to people who want to react to the latest breaking news. We are going to have additional conversation about this later in the show. I just want to read a little bit more from the dissenting opinion from Justices Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan. They write, "With sorrow for this court but more for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection, we dissent."

Majority Leader, as you said, we are at a moment where we are talking about the importance of leadership and of elections and of making your voice heard. I want to talk to you for a moment about some legislation that you joined Governor Hochul to sign just last week about half a dozen bills aimed at protecting abortion rights for patients and providers. Is there anything you want to highlight from that package that was signed last week, and why was it so important to enact those laws before the US Supreme Court issued its decision on Dobbs?

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Yes, because, obviously, the leaked memo put everybody on high alert once again, and there was always that hope that the memo was leaked and people were now reacting, and how dire a dismantling of our rights would really be, so there was some hope that maybe this wouldn't happen. Nonetheless, we decided that should it happen, we wanted to make sure that providers were not going to be accused of malpractice, that you wouldn't be able to hunt.

There's places in Texas where you can apparently hunt doctors or hunt your neighbors. We did not want people to be able to come to New York and hunt people just because they could do it in other states. We wanted to make sure that it was clear that New York would be a safe haven in terms of abortion providers and women seeking abortions. These various acts, we had the freedom, let say, freedom from interference with reproductive health.

Meaning that you, again, could not stop somebody in New York from getting an abortion. We still allow for abortions in New York. If you are interfering with someone getting it, you have a right of action. There's just several things. Just to bring your listeners back, when I was elected to the Senate, the first year I carried the Reproductive Health Act, which was to codify Roe v. Wade. I remember the Republicans at that point saying that there was absolutely no reason to do this. Why is she taking up this storm?

The reason why we were doing it is because New York's law, as they said, predated Roe v. Wade. We didn't even have the protections in New York State that Roe v. Wade provided. We were not able to codify Roe v. Wade until 2019 when the Democrats took the majority. I am very, very happy that we were able to do that. Not that we wouldn't be able to do it now should we have had to, but at least we're not beginning at the beginning.

Even then I saw a sad situation because, in 1970, 12 Republicans joined the majority of the Democrats in a Republican-led State Senate to pass laws that predated Roe v. Wade.

In 2019, when we codify Roe v. Wade, there were-- I'm sorry. I meant to say to pass New York's abortion laws. In 1970, 12 Republicans joined. When we passed it in 2019, not one Republican voted to codify a woman's right to choose, in 2019. Obviously, there is a huge issue with people understanding how important women's rights are in the Republican party right now. I mean, it's just amazing.

Brigid Bergin: Well, we're going to need to take a quick break. Stay tuned for more with Majority Leader, Stewart-Cousins, including your calls. We're also standing by for special coverage from NPR later this hour, which we will take. We'll be back in just a moment.

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It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist Newsroom filling in for Brian Lehrer who's off today. My guest is New York State Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins. We started by talking about yesterday's SCOTUS ruling on concealed carry here in New York. We have made a shift because another major decision was released this morning, and it has overturned Roe. Something that I think we knew was coming, but didn't know it would happen today.

We've invited your calls. We are waiting NPR special coverage. Let's talk to Diane in Wayne, New Jersey. Diane, thank you for calling, and thank you for your patience.

Diane: Thank you so much for taking my call. This is such an important issue. I'm a former Girl Scout Leader. The girls in my troop just graduated college. It was four years ago. My daughter and these girls are going out into the world. Now, when I was in college, a young woman I know, a friend of mine was raped, but luckily she didn't have to worry if she would be able to get an abortion because abortion was legal.

According to statistics, in 2019, more than 652,000 women in America were raped. Those are the ones we know about. There are many that don't come forward because of the stigma and the trauma. What's going to happen in these states that have outlawed abortion, even in cases of rape or incest? How many women-- Thousands of women across this country are going to have to bear the child of their rapists. That's my question. What are we going to do about it?

Brigid Bergin: Diane, thank you. Thank you for your call. I know that these stories are just inherently intimate. They bring up experiences and things that people have to contemplate that we've, for many years now, had the ability to protect people's rights to make those decisions privately. Majority Leader, you shared your own powerful story.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Absolutely.

Brigid Bergin: I don't think you probably have an answer to Diane.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Well, that's the thing. I mean, that is absolutely the thing. I think the statistics show that frankly one in four women have had abortions. When I was growing up, abortion was not legal, but girls who could afford it, had it anyway. Girls went away, they had "a cyst removed", those women. The more affluent will still be able to do it. It's the rest of us, [laughs] people who will have to figure out a way to maybe take time off of work and travel to another state, the expense, the hard--

I mean, just imagining people being back in alleys again with people who are unqualified, doing things that actually lead to women's death sometimes and disfigurement. Again, this is just unbelievable that we are in a version of, I guess, a pre-Handmaid's Tale, where I suppose the Supreme Court Majority would have us all be subjected to carrying children, whether we want them, whether we want to have a child or not.

As Diane brought up a good point, obviously, rape, incest, so on and so forth. I mean, the list goes on, but the reality is that this is a very, very, very, very sad day for the progress of our nation and the progress of women.

Brigid Bergin: Majority Leader, our lines are full with men and women with stories they want to share. Betty in Lake Apacon, New Jersey, welcome to WNYC.

Betty: Hello.

Brigid Bergin: Did you want to tell your story?

Betty: Yes. Back in, I think it was 1985, my younger sister who was married had gotten pregnant and she had been diagnosed with a systemic lupus as a teen. When she became pregnant, she experienced a flare, which anybody who had autoimmune disease knows that it occasionally flares up like that. With the pregnancy, her body started to attack her kidneys and she was in renal failure.

Her doctor advised her that she had to have an immediate abortion because neither she nor the baby would survive. Since that was at the time when pre-existing conditions were not covered, her husband's insurance wouldn't cover her hospital stay, so she had to resort to a clinic where, as she's battling 104 fever, she had to go through the line of picketers calling her a murderer.

I couldn't imagine not having abortion available today. Who would make that decision? Would they just allow her to die or people in these sorts of conditions? I don't want lawmakers making medical decisions because obviously, many are not qualified. Who decides?

Brigid Bergin: Betty, thank you so much for your call.

Betty: Thank you so much.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: I'm so upset. [laughs]

Betty: [unintelligible 00:29:43]

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: I know. The fact that you're a living being, that you are a woman who is existing here, means nothing to the Supreme Court, nothing. They would let her die because [unintelligible 00:30:00]. I don't even know why we're doing medicine at all now. Why? Just people get sick. Let's see what's supposed to happen. It's unfortunate. It's unbelievable. Go ahead.

Brigid Bergin: Betty, thank you so much for calling. Majority Leader, again, I want to thank you. I'm grateful that you are our guest this morning because I think you have a perspective on this issue that is both personal but also from the policy of having worked in the legislature to try and ensure these rights were enshrined. I'm wondering, given what was just recently enacted that Governor Hochul signed just earlier this week, what more do you think the state needs to do to further protect reproductive health?

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: I think we're going to really take a serious look at contraceptives because I'm sure they'll be coming after that soon. Trying to make sure that people have access to their birth control methods. Obviously, New York will continue to be a place where women's rights are respected. I think the governor announced that there was another 35 million that are going to providers of abortion care in this state because, obviously, the number of people who will be requiring these services will only grow.

We'll have to look next year as we do our budget to figure out how we will be able to meet needs of New Yorkers. Again, I'm sure people will try and come to New York. You always want people to come to your state. New York is, as far as I'm concerned, the best place in the world because of the culture, because of the people, because of who we are, what we mean. How sad that now people will have to flee from places all over the country to come to New York or California in order to get traditional medical care if you're a woman who's pregnant. How sad.

Brigid Bergin: We have Emily from Roselle Park, New Jersey. Emily, you are on with Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins in a moment where history has happened. Hello.

Emily: Hi. Thank you. Can you hear me?

Brigid Bergin: Yes, we can hear you. Go ahead.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Yes.

Emily: I wanted to mention that I am 22, and I have actually had three abortions. Partly due to financial reasons, partly due to spotty birth control, so many women know how difficult it can be just to be on birth control, especially when you have underlying mental health considerations like I do. I'm very lucky to have been able to have these procedures.

I'm lucky to live in New Jersey where it's available, but I have to say that even though it may not have been a dire case for me like for so many women where you're raped or they have some awful fetal issue with the fetus or whatever, I would be in such a bad place right now if I had been forced to have any one of those children. Financially, mental health-wise, I would not have been able to handle it and I probably wouldn't have ended-up being able to take care of my daughter who I have right now.

She's here in the car with me, and she's three, so she doesn't know what we're talking about. I have to ask, is there any possibility in the future of some sort of federal legislation that could at least put limits on how far states can go with their abortion bans? Is there any possibility of saying you have to make an exception for rape cases or you have to make an exception for like if the mother's life is in danger? Is there any possibility of that, do you think?

Brigid Bergin: Emily, I'll let the speaker weigh in, and thank you for calling. Speaker, certainly-- Majority Leader, excuse me, we have seen states that have enacted legislation that has made it prohibitive to access abortion services even in cases that are rape or the health of the mother, so it doesn't sound like there's a great response for Emily to that question. Let me weigh in. I know we need to we say goodbye to you soon.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: I wish that I could depend on the federal government to act cohesively to protect our rights and to even make the kinds of decisions that would allow for us to be able to access standard medical care as women who may be pregnant, may want to terminate a pregnancy for whatever the reason. I don't have at this point. It's certainly our delegation in New York notwithstanding, but the reality is that you have to get a majority of people to agree, which you can probably get in the House right now, but apparently you can't get in the Senate.

I've got to say that we were saying, and Brigid, you mentioned it, that we did, here in the state level, these gun laws, and I answered to what we see happening all over the country. Why? Because we couldn't get it done on a federal level. Again, now they're doing something, but the things they're doing we did years ago. The same thing with the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. We were last week signing into law John Lewis Voting Rights Act here in New York because the federal government after reaffirming the Voting Rights Act since its beginning in the 1960, I want to say '65, they couldn't do it.

They haven't been able to re-up the Voting Rights Act since about 2012, I think it was. We have a problem on a federal level getting them to even affirm your right to vote. To suggest is that we could get them to affirm my right as a woman to have bodily autonomy, I'd love to believe we could, but I don't have a good hope for that. That's why people, and I know we do have to go soon, but people all over this nation have to be very clear about the power that they have in their hands to vote for people who want to continue living in the 21st century and moving forward. That's what we have to do.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to have to leave it there for today. My guest has been New York State Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins. Thank you so, so much for joining me this morning.

Andrea Stewart-Cousins: Thank you. I'm glad that I was able to spend time with your enlightened listenership, and I know that again New Yorkers know how to step up for any occasion. We will continue to be leaders in the way of progress and try and continue to beat the drum loudly so that the nation will hear that we're not going to be safe for shooting each other up and we're not going to be safe for making sure that women have no choices.

 

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