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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Now, our climate story of the week, which we do every Tuesday on the show this week, Earth Week. Let's talk about the New York State budget and how it addressed or failed to address climate change now that the final version of the budget is in. We did address in this budget period at New York State from the beginning of January until it was passed just the other day, some of the particular climate pieces of legislation that were being considered as some of our climate stories of the week on different Tuesdays. Now, we can assess how it came out. I'm joined by Liz Moran, policy advocate for Earthjustice's Northeast Office. Liz, welcome back to WNYC.

Liz Moran: Hey, thanks so much for having me.

Brian Lehrer: I guess the biggest headline here is what didn't get included in the budget, and that's the New York HEAT Act where HEAT stands for Home Energy Affordable Transition. It was supposed to help with the transition from fossil fuels to electricity to HEAT homes, which was required, is required in the 2019 legislation passed by the state legislature. What would the New York HEAT Act have accomplished, and was any version of it in the budget?

Liz Moran: Yes. Unfortunately, overall, this budget really did not reflect the urgency of the climate crisis and the corresponding energy affordability crisis. The key policy that was on the table to address that is the NY HEAT Act. This is a really important piece of climate policy, and we saw every measure as an important energy affordability measure. Right now, utilities have no choice but to give us gas.

That is mandated under our existing law. Obviously, that doesn't check out, like you mentioned earlier, with our state climate law. This legislation would've changed how that is conducted. It would've mandated that we get energy, but it doesn't have to be gas, which would mean our Public Service Commission and utilities would have greater options. That would lead to cost savings because gas infrastructure is very expensive. It would've eliminated some of those subsidies, enabled utilities to look at options beyond gas, and critically, it would've capped utility bills at 6% of household income.

Brian Lehrer: It's not in the budget. What happened in your view, because there's a democratic super majority, meaning a veto-proof majority in both of the two houses of the New York State Legislature? How did the HEAT Act fail from the starting point of what sounds to--

Liz Moran: No version or portion of this--

Brian Lehrer: I was just going to say what sounds to environmentalists like yourself, like almost common sense, right? Restrict utility bills to 6% of a person's income. Of course, they would not be subsidized if they make a lot of money. They would wind up being subsidized if they make only a little money and stop doing natural gas hookups as a matter, of course, only if the building requested to help continue the transition gradually to all-electric. How did the Democratic legislature wind up defeating that?

Liz Moran: We think that you're spot on. We feel that this was a common-sense piece of legislation and has enjoyed majority support. The Governor put forward significant portions of the legislation in her proposed budget. The Senate included the full standalone bill in their proposal, and the assembly had some nods to it in their one-house proposal. Not nearly as strong as where the Governor and the Senate were, but we all felt that a deal could be brokered.

Unfortunately, the assembly, at the end of the day, refused to come to the table in a significant way in a good faith effort. That's despite enjoying a majority support within the conference. This legislation has 76 Assembly Democrats on as co-sponsors enough to pass if they were brought to the floor. This is really shameful. The same body that helped us get through our climate law is now obstructing the climate action we need to actually meet that law.

In the same time, they're not addressing our energy affordability crisis. They're over a quarter of New Yorkers are paying more than 6% of their household income on utility bills. That's unsustainable. To top it all off, we just saw a major rate hike come down in New York City. National Grid Downstate is going to be hiking people's bills as much as $30 per month. The assembly chose to pass on the key policy to help reign this in.

Brian Lehrer: When State Senator Liz Krueger of Manhattan was on the show, when we talked about this issue in the run-up to the budget, she said most utility companies were actually on board except for one that was solely a natural gas company. This Western New York gas company did an opposition campaign. They frack as well, they drill. They've got a lot of various interests that would be against what you stand for. The political analysis appears to be that this one utility company exerted a lot of political power.

Liz Moran: Yes, we think that's right. National Fuel has been a major obstacle when it comes to getting this legislation across the finish line because they are more concerned about their bottom lines than protecting the consumers in their region. That's really a shame that the assembly chose to protect interests like those of National Fuel over everyday New Yorkers who are suffering from the worsening climate crisis, especially abysmal after the 2023 we just experienced.

I think it's still fresh in people's minds that less than a year ago, the skies were orange in New York City from the smoke from the Canadian wildfire. There's reports that we might see that again in New York State this coming year. New Yorkers are seeing the climate crisis in tangible, real ways, and they're suffering from high energy bills, and it is unfathomable that the assembly chose to side with the oil and gas industry, with National Fuel, for their bottom lines over constituents.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, does anyone want to weigh in on climate provisions or the absence thereof in the new New York State budget? 212-433-WNYC, or ask our guests the question, Liz Moran, policy advocate for the environmental group, Earthjustice, their Northeast Office. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, call or text.

Before we go on to some other things, and I'm going to ask you if anything else that's pro-climate did get into the budget, even though most of the press was about the HEAT Act, there's a struggle over who's going to pay for this transition from oil and natural gas to electricity consumers or the industry or in what percentages. Where does that stand now?

Liz Moran: I think you're alluding to policy known as the Climate Change Super Fund Act. This is another important piece of legislation carried by Senator Liz Krueger that would make sure that the oil and gas industry corporate polluters that have placed us in the climate crisis we're facing are ultimately the ones that have to pay up for being in the mess that we're in.

It wouldn't fall upon New Yorkers, everyday ratepayers, for us to make this transition and to protect communities in the meantime. This legislation did pass the Senate last year. It was in the Senate's one-house budget, but unfortunately, it wasn't yet embraced by the Governor and the assembly. We did not see this happen in the final budget.

Brian Lehrer: That Superfund, as you call it, Superfund Act, again, the State Senate had it and the Assembly under Carl Heastie, who he's a lawmaker from the Bronx, Heastie and his colleagues, in the overwhelmingly Democratic Senate, opposed it or didn't bring it up. Again, we have this split between the Senate and the Assembly, where the Senate, which I think used to be the more conservative body in the state legislature, comes out as the more progressive.

Liz Moran: This has been an interesting trend to observe where the assembly has been a roadblock or at least a delaying agent in the past few years. For example, the All-Electric Buildings Act, the legislation or now law that mandates we're going to have all-electric new construction across the state starting in 2026, that legislation was held up in its first year in 2022 because of assembly opposition. They finally came around in 2023. This is an unfortunate trend that we really need to see flip because their constituents need them to address this issue.

For example, on energy affordability, as I mentioned earlier, about 25%, a quarter of New Yorkers, have high energy burden. It's even worse in places like the Bronx in New York City, that's an average over 30%, so a third of residents in the Bronx face a high energy burden. They pay more than 6% of their income on their energy bills. In some places, that looks like $355 a month. That is so unsustainable. We really need the assembly to change tact here and step up for their constituents over corporate interests.

Brian Lehrer: Sarah in Brooklyn wants to weigh in on what happened in the assembly, I think. Sarah, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Sarah: Hi there. I have to say, I want to call out Heastie himself. I think that the assembly has a lot of people who really do support this kind of legislation. As Liz pointed out, 76 Democratic co-sponsors on the New York HEAT Act, but Heastie himself is the roadblock. My understanding is that there are assembly members in Western New York who don't want to cross the National Fuel Gas, which is their local gas utility, for fear of losing their election, and he needs to protect their seats. Rather than ensuring that a law like the New York Heat Act or the Climate Super Fund Act, both of which are for the good of us all, he goes with what is politically expedient. That's my take on this.

Brian Lehrer: Sarah, thank you very much. Protecting the assembly majority by protecting Western New York members who might lose their seats to Republicans if they were to go against that utility's interest, an interesting take. All right. Let's see, let's take another call. Here is Jerry in Manhattan. You're on WNYC. Hi, Jerry.

Jerry: Yes. It sounds like it's a terrible idea because of one reason. Why would all these people whose utility bills are now capped at 6% of their income pay any attention to controlling their usage? It seems to me it would have a terrible effect on the environment and our attempts to reduce pollution.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting question. Liz Moran?

Liz Moran: We heard this a decent amount, and I think it's important to note, these are not the households that are consuming most of our energy. A lot of this has to do with how we structure our rate system, how we are charging people for the energy that is used. We actually have a regressive rate structure in New York State. People are charged more per unit of energy when they use less.

These households are paying more disproportionately compared to households or other entities that might be using more energy. We're not worried about a 6% cap on low to moderate-income households leading to a sudden glut of increased energy use. If anything, we think this will protect them while also helping those same households hopefully get away from fossil fuels and enable utilities to save them even more money by transitioning those homes to non-gas alternatives.

Brian Lehrer: Let's talk about what was included in the budget package for the climate and the environment. There was more money, for example, for the Clean Water Infrastructure Act, and there was something called the Rapid Act that's supposed to speed up adding capacity to the electrical grid. You want to talk about either of those or add another one?

Liz Moran: Sure. Both of those were positive things that came out of the budget. New York State has a multi-billion dollar program known as the Clean Water Infrastructure Act, really important fund. It covers a number of water initiatives, everything from our water infrastructure, our sewage lines, our drinking water infrastructure to treatment facilities, protecting water at its source, and so much more. New York State has billions in need for that kind of funding. For example, wastewater and drinking water infrastructure alone is going to need $80 billion in investments over a 20-year period. This is a really important program.

Unfortunately, it was in jeopardy at the beginning of the budget season. The governor had proposed cutting that funding in half. She had proposed $250 million, and it has typically been receiving 500 million. We're thrilled to see an agreement come together. The legislature fought hard to make sure that funding was restored. Our final budget does have $500 million for clean water infrastructure.

Brian Lehrer: Anything else that I haven't mentioned in the budget?

Liz Moran: Well, you did also mention the Rapid Act. This is an important policy, and maybe listeners haven't heard about it. What this would do is it would help the state accelerate electric transmission siting. That might not sound very exciting, but it's really important because we're going to need to get power from non-fossil fuel sources. We're going to need to get it from more renewables. That means we're going to need the transmission to match. We're going to make sure, we need to make sure that we have enough transmission to get renewable energy to the places that need it the most.

New York City is one of those places. A number of communities, particularly environmental justice communities, have what's known as dirty peaker plants. These are really polluting fossil fuel facilities that the state wants to move away from. For us to be able to do that, we need more electric transmission to get renewable energy to places like New York City. That was a good policy that was passed and a common sense thing for the state to do. We're glad that there was an agreement in the final deal.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take another call. Peter in Queens, you're are on WNYC with Liz Moran from the Environmental Group Earth Justice on our climate story of the week as we talk about what's in and what's out in the New York State budget. Hi, Peter.

Peter: Hi. Good morning. I love your show.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you.

Peter: I moved into a fully electric building in mid-December, and I moved from Manhattan where I had oil paid for, and now it's fully electric. The stove is electric, the heat is electric, and my bill was coming at about 42 to 50 a month, and now it's 422 to 452. I have an emergency termination notice that I'm sleeping in my thermal underwear and my coat, and I'm cold, and it's a studio apartment.

Brian Lehrer: Woah. You're saying this is what we're in for. If we go to so much universal electrification.

Peter: Well, yes, it's a good idea, but it also saves the landlords a lot of money. That's great, but what do I do? I'm supposed to freeze to death?

Brian Lehrer: Liz.

Liz Moran: I'm so sorry to hear about that experience. That's not been the norm, so I'm really sorry that this is what you're experiencing. The New York Times actually did this wonderful profile recently about heat pump technology and how they are rapidly being adopted in some of the coldest regions of our country like Maine. Maine has a number of households that are on delivered oil. Delivered oil is about the dirtiest and most expensive energy source you could be getting.

To save people money in Maine, there's been programs to transition homes to heat pumps, and people really like them. The technology has advanced dramatically. This is a very unfortunate story to hear because a lot of people have been very happy to retrofit and electrify their homes to make them more energy-efficient and cleaner.

Brian Lehrer: Before you go, and Peter, that sounds horrible. I hope you find a way not to freeze and to be able to stay in your apartment or to afford one with cheaper utility bills, but thank you for checking in. Before you go, two things. One, not in the New York State budget, but yesterday, three big win projects got canceled by the state. What happened there?

Liz Moran: This is really unfortunate. The easiest way to summarize what transpired was one of the manufacturers that was contracted for the project, GE made a change in the types of wind turbines they'd be producing. That meant enough changes in the process that would've made the project unfeasible. It sounds like it was a sudden decision, a sudden change that came at a poor point in the process and impacted the whole thing, and the timing's unfortunate. We do need to be ramping up offshore wind. We need to be ramping up renewable energy generation, but hopefully, this is something that is an outlier situation and not the norm.

Brian Lehrer: I think we have a member of the New York State Assembly calling in right now. We've been talking about the assembly failing to pass a couple of these main climate bills while the State Senate did. This is Assemblymember Dana Levenberg of Ossining. Assemblymember, thank you very much for calling in.

Dana Levenberg: Thanks, Brian, and so glad to hear Liz doing a great job for climate justice and all of the climate initiatives that she's been fighting so hard for. I was really disappointed that we couldn't get the New York HEAT Act passed in the budget. I am holding out hope because we were told that in the three-way negotiations that the Governor did commit to getting it done this session. I am hopeful that we can continue to push to get it done before the end of session is here.

We know how important it is. I think that there's a lot in the details. We were told that it's complicated, and there's a lot still to discuss, so that's why we couldn't get it done in the budget. That and the Climate Superfund Act, I think that those are both so critical to moving us forward to putting an infrastructure in place that we desperately need to segue off of fossil fuels and our dependence on fossil fuels.

Brian Lehrer: Assemblymember, what do you think about the analysis that we heard from a caller before that this didn't get through the assembly because Speaker Heastie wanted to protect some Democratic members from Western New York who support the natural gas utility out there? The Speaker didn't want to risk losing those Democratic seats, and potentially with them, your Democratic majority.

Dana Levenberg: I think that it's always a balancing act. I will say that I think Speaker Heastie does a good job at always looking at the big picture and trying to account for all of the differences that go into not only passing a budget but passing good legislation that will move us forward as a state. We know that it's always a compromise. I really don't know exactly that that was the reason. I think that certainly there were other folks who had some issues with the New York HEAT Act.

I know Liz and Mike Sanders and I have been talking about this. Liz knows that I've been fighting the good fight to the best of my ability along with Pat Fahy, who's the assembly sponsor. It's been a bit of an uphill battle, and it's possible that there are political interests involved. There always are. You can't say that that's never a consideration.

Brian Lehrer: Assemblymember, thank you very much for checking in. We've got 30 seconds left, and the legislature has over a month left. The budget season is over, but the legislature session for the year continues into June. What other priorities do you have for the rest of the New York State legislative session with respect to climate? We have half a minute.

Liz Moran: It was great hearing from Assemblymember Levenberg. She has been such a huge ally on NY heat and climate and environmental policies. We're grateful for members like her. One other climate bill we're looking at is legislation called the Clean Deliveries Act. There are a number of communities in New York City and elsewhere in the state that have these mega warehouses showing up, and that leads to a lot of dirty truck traffic. This legislation would require the state to start looking at those air quality impacts more closely and protect what's often disadvantaged communities.

Brian Lehrer: There we leave it for today with Liz Moran, policy advocate for the Northeast Office of the environmental group, Earthjustice on what was in and what wasn't in the New York State budget for this year that just got passed. That's our climate story of the week. Liz, thanks so much.

Liz Moran: Thanks for having me again.

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