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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now we continue our month of may round of interviews with the New York City Democratic primary candidates for mayor. Our theme for this round is economic recovery meets economic justice. We know that any new mayor will have to guide the comeback from COVID after so many thousands of jobs were lost. We also know the economic devastation was not spread evenly across the board in the city.

We know that fighting economic inequality was how Mayor de Blasio got elected eight years ago and yet that work already had many miles to go even before the pandemic. So economic recovery meets economic justice. With us, today on this Kathryn Garcia, the former sanitation commissioner under mayor de Blasio, whose reputation as a can-do manager also resulted in de Blasio naming her the so-called foods are to get food to unemployed and other hungry people during the pandemic.

Also, his point person on reforming NYCHA when the lead paint scandal broke a few years ago, and under Mayor Bloomberg, she was tapped to get power restored to the many people who got blacked out by Superstorm Sandy. The big news for Kathryn Garcia this week and we'll touch on a few news items in addition to our big theme here, the New York Times just endorsed her for mayor. Commissioner Garcia, thanks for coming on again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Commissioner Kathryn Garcia: It's great to be back.

Brian: Congratulations on your endorsement by the Times, which cited all the special roles I mentioned in the intro. Also, to the point of our topic in this round of interviews, economic recovery meets economic justice, they cited two of your proposals for children, free childcare up to age three for families earning less than $70,000 a year, and to implement bilingual programs in every elementary school. Can you talk about that one? That doesn't mean every child gets bilingual education, does it?

Commissioner Garcia: It means that it's available in every school because when you think about what our economy looks, and how interconnected we are globally it is a benefit to be bilingual in this economy. We want to make sure we are giving every kid all that we can so that they are successful, so they can rise into the middle class so that they can thrive in New York City.

Brian: How much is that to bring English language learners up to speed in English more quickly as close as possible to their homes?

Commissioner Garcia: I am committed to investing over an additional $200 million into elementary schools because we need not only bilingual education, but we need art and music and theater and sports because developing the critical thinking you're going to need going forward requires that plus math and science and reading

Brian: Free childcare up to age three for families earning less than $70,000 a year, how much would that cost the city per year? What do you hope that would accomplish?

Commissioner Garcia: The cost is high. It's approximately $630 million, but what it accomplishes is not only preparing kids for school but also making it so that families are supported in the recovery. One of the biggest costs for a family is childcare and it gives people the ability to go to work. I love that at the federal level, we're talking about childcare as infrastructure because just as you need the subway to get to your office, if you don't have a safe place for your kid to be enriched, you can't also go to work. We have seen women step back from the workforce. Surveys say one in four, that is really painful for a family, but it is really devastating forever getting a chance to close the wage gap for women.

Brian: Do you have models for that program in other American cities? I'm thinking about two things. One is, I think the consensus on the most popular thing that Mayor de Blasio has done in his time in office is universal pre-K, now heading toward the universal three-K program. You're proposing to fill that gap for zero to three in terms of the childcare aspect of that, but also it's much more common in Europe than it is in this country to have that government-provided or subsidized childcare for babies and toddlers. Do you have models for that program in other American cities?

Commissioner Garcia: We have not looked at other American cities. It's not common in the US to be supportive of families in the same way it is across the rest of the world. This is an investment we should be making because it is so much cheaper to make it-- The kids do well at the beginning of their lives than try and fix things on the backend and catch people up.

Brian: An article. Well, let me ask you this. What would have been at the heart of your economic justice platform before Covid and how much has the emphasis had to change to meet the change conditions that the pandemic has forced upon us?

Commissioner Garcia: The core of my recovery program is not only free childcare but also support for small businesses, which is different than would have been true pre-pandemic because they have lost so much, which means getting the bureaucracy out of their way with 0% microloans, as well as giving them access to the public realm and a real emphasis on art and culture and restaurants because that's what makes it special.

That's what makes New York City dynamic, but regardless of pre or post-pandemic, having real intentional pathways to the middle class out of our CUNY system or out of our high schools, that would have been part of the program regardless because it wasn't getting done in a way that was as intentional as it needs to be. For example, as a commissioner of sanitation where we had over nearly a thousand auto mechanics, I couldn't hire a kid who had gone to automotive high school. That doesn't make sense. We have to make it so that this is a pathway into a career for our young people regardless of whether or not they want to be in food or finance or fashion, but that we are thinking about how to make those connections for them.

Brian: The Times endorsement of you did also give credit to Andrew Yang for offering the sharpest focus on the important role the mayor will play in luring people back to the city as the pandemic ends, it said other candidates have focused on those who never left. Do you have a plan for luring people back? Do you see that issue as having implications for fighting poverty in the city if it's the higher-income people who fled?

Commissioner Garcia: This is the most amazing city and we need to get our dynamism back. My focus is I'm making us special in the ways that we always have known. You live in New York, you move to New York and you visit New York because of our art and our culture and our restaurants and our small businesses. All of our diversity is what makes us the most interesting place to be. It is about boosting the city and talking about how fabulous it is.

One of the things I've said we need to be doing is promoting New York City with a rediscover NYC ad campaign so that first we're our own tourist and then as it becomes safer and safer that we are luring back international tourists. I have great faith in New York City having the greatest comeback because that is what we do. We are resilient and my focus is on getting people back to work because there are tens of thousands of jobs connected to those sectors.

Brian: Well, you mentioned small businesses and small businesses have suffered so much during the economy, restaurants, obviously the theater industry, obviously other performing arts, but also other things as people stay home while certain bigger businesses flourished. I'm curious what kinds of specific help you see the city government is needing to provide for small businesses as opposed to reopening the economy just bringing people back naturally?

Commissioner Garcia: There are several pieces to my small business plan. One is to have one city permit and really get the bureaucracy out of people's way. You'd have to go to about seven or eight different agencies, DEP, DOB, in order to actually sell a bowl of soup. We need to have 0% microloans for small businesses. Some of them have been able to access the PPP federal money, but that didn't cover things like rent. Open restaurants has been phenomenally successful. We need to make that permanent and continue to expand across the city access to our public space.

Brian: Our previous segment was about the national economy. A lot of people listening now are here for that. The weird duality of a recovery growth rate around a booming 10% annual rate, which is unheard of, but of course, it's coming back from this big shutdown. Yet, despite the growth rate, the number of new jobs lagging expectations in April leading to speculation that employers can not find workers because pandemic unemployment benefits are lasting too long. Do you see that happening in New York City?

Commissioner Garcia: We have to be supportive of families who have really taken a hit with unemployment, but also this is where things like childcare, having schools open, it is very hard to go back to work if you don't have predictable childcare or predictable school.

Brian: Listeners, we can take some phone calls for a mayoral candidate, Kathryn Garcia, running in the Democratic primary. 646-435-7280. We will lean into questions that are on the topic of economic recovery meets economic justice, but we can take other questions as well. 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280 for Kathryn Garcia. Mayor de Blasio ran and won in 2013 as the candidate most focused on fighting economic inequality.

His signature policies included universal pre-K, but also a paid sick leave law, which has been implemented and I think is also popular. The paid sick leave is not a city expense like pre-K, it's a regulation on private sector employers. Now you and everybody are talking about help for small businesses, but where a lot of structural inequality takes place I think is among different groups of hardworking people often at small businesses across the economy. The current mayor was willing to regulate businesses in that respect. That included a lot of small businesses who didn't like that paid sick leave law and family leave. Do you have anything like that in mind?

Commissioner Garcia: No. I am very focused on supporting small businesses, but I have not put out a legislative package on new regulations. There are quite a few regulations already on small businesses. When I talked to them, it is not those sorts of issues that there is concern about, but having seat at the table when we're thinking about policy development and being able to talk about what the implications are in a very real way, both positive and negative. Where they are most frustrated is where they feel that they're being stuck with fees and fines, that they're the cash register for the city.

Brian: Seat at the table. Do you have a position on the tipped minimum wage? Some advocates for labor want it to rise two or closer to the regular minimum wage, restaurants and other businesses whose workers get tips are saying, "No way," and they can't afford it. Do you have a position on that?

Commissioner Garcia: We know that restaurants have really suffered and many have closed during the pandemic. We need them to stay open and be healthy going forward. We know that many people who get tips are making more than the minimum wage. My feeling is we got to be supportive of those businesses and really make sure that we understand what could force them to close.

Brian: Before we take some calls from listeners. I'm going to digress for a minute because you are among those who have called on Scott Stringer to drop out of the race because of the sexual harassment and abuse allegation against him by Jean Kim who worked on his campaign as a volunteer in 2001. I questioned Mr. Stringer in-depth about that here last week.

In fairness, I have to ask you given some of the questions that have since been raised about the allegation, including in the article in The Intercept last week that backs up Stringer's account of them knowing each other before that campaign, did you rush to judgment? This applies to other candidates too who are calling for him to step aside, did you rush to judgment in calling for him to drop out before there was more of an investigation into the allegations?

Commissioner Garcia: I was clear and decisive in calling for him to step aside. I believe Jean Kim, that is what I said. I still believe Jean Kim. I'll say there is never an upside to coming out and making it so that you are stating what is your truth because you get demonized. Your reputation will be gone after, and that's what we are seeing happening now.

Brian: People supporting Mr. Stringer are making several arguments against calling on him to leave the race at this point. I'm going to go into a little detail here and give me your take on some of these arguments in the context of why you think he should drop out of the race rather than be investigated to let voters decide for themselves what they believe actually happened.

One is that Ms. Kim first inaccurately said she was an intern when she was, in fact, a 30-year-old volunteer not in the internship program to The Intercept article on their prior professional relationship in the same political circles and subsequent professional dealings as well. Also, the intercept notes Kim said that she had never applied for work with Stringer's 2013 campaign for comptroller, but the Stringer Campaign subsequently produced an email that Kim sent resume attached, asking whether she could be helpful on the campaign. That's another inconsistency.

There was an article by a renowned feminist Katha Pollit in The Nation since Stringer was here last week, arguing that if there was a pattern of this behavior by him, other women would likely have come forward and me too'd him by now, Pollit notes with Governor Cuomo after the first recent accusation, the count is up to 11 women. What's the fair level of uncertainty that the public and that you should have about this charge based on all those developments?

Commissioner Garcia: I will also just preface this by saying that the first allegation against the governor occurred many months before any of the other allegations occurred. It's not necessarily that those happened one after the other. I'm going to stand by the fact that I believe Jean Kim and I came out and said it and this is where I think we need to be. I have not said after an investigation, whether or not he should stay in his current role, but he should be stepping aside in the mayor's race. I know that's not his intention to do that and voters obviously can make up their mind, but I think I've been pretty clear on this.

Brian: Despite all these details that have come out, you believe Jean Kim, you've formed an opinion about that accusation.

Commissioner Garcia: I think it's splitting hairs intern, volunteer. That it's also splitting hairs, it's like, "Was she applying for a job, or was she applying to be helpful?" I've gotten people who've sent their resume to me on this campaign where there was no job being planned, but they wanted to know like, "I could help you on policy." There's a lot of ways you can interpret that.

Brian: Corina in Queens. You're on WNYC with mayoral hopeful, Kathryn Garcia. Hello, Corina.

Corina: Hi there. Can you hear me?

Brian: I can hear you just fine.

Corina: Okay. Hi. Kathryn Garcia. I'm Corina from Queens. My question is do you support the New York Health Act as it stands and the seat assembly and state Senate bill?

Commissioner Garcia: I'm sorry. I didn't hear which act?

Brian: New York Health Act. Is that the New York State single-payer health insurance system, is that the one, Corina?

Corina: Yes. That is correct.

Brian: Single-payer health insurance for New York state. Would you advocate for that as mayor Commissioner Garcia?

Commissioner Garcia: I am very supportive of a public option in New York state. That is where I would be pushing and advocating.

Brian: Public option is more than we have now or is it what we have now? But it is less than universal single-payer in the state.

Commissioner Garcia: Yes.

Brian: Is it what we have now or do you think that something needs to be added that would be the public option in the way you just refer to it?

Commissioner Garcia: The public option would be-- It'd be great if it was at the federal level, but it is to provide you with something similar to Medicare that you could buy into.

Brian: Mindy around Union Square, you're on WNYC with Kathryn Garcia. Hello, Mindy.

Mindy: Hi. Thank you for mentioning the 0% on the SBA loan. I appreciate that. The 3.75% is not really helpful. My question is really about what will be done about putting caps on landlords, on how much they can increase our rent. This is what was driving a lot of us out over the pandemic.

Commissioner Garcia: The way that we need to be working with small businesses to make sure that we're supporting them is around the plan to give them 0% loans. I am supportive of a commercial vacancy tax, but getting down into the weeds a little bit looking at how the city is using its property tax since usually most folks who are in commercial space are paying directly on triple net leases for that property expense.

Brian: Mindy, thank you for your call. This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey public radio with a few minutes left with mayoral hopeful Kathryn Garcia. I should mention, by the way, that all eight leading candidates will be there for tomorrow night's WNYC, NY1, The City, campaign finance board mayoral debate.

I will be one of the questioners along with Josefa Velasquez from The City. That's the news organization, The City and Errol Louis from NY1, and that will be live on WNYC and live on NY1 tomorrow night at 7:00 O'clock. Just making a note of that for those of you who are following or interested in or undecided in or rooting for somebody in or otherwise want to watch this debate in the mayoral race.

Commissioner Garcia: I wish we were in person, by the way.

Brian: Yes, it would be great. I guess we're not there yet. In our previous two rounds of interviews, I carefully avoided asking any of you to compare yourself to other candidates because I just wanted to let listeners get to know each of you as yourselves. Certainly, that would very much apply to somebody like you who's done so much in city government, but wasn't that much of a known public figure and not give too much press to other people who may have already been in the press a lot.

Now it's getting close and the polls keep indicating a clear top two, although I think undecided would really be the big winner, but among the candidates, Andrew Yang and Eric Adams, two of the more relatively conservative candidates for this field on certain issues. You are also mentioned typically in the press in the sort of competence lane, managerial lane, not in the so-called most progressive lane. When it comes to economic recovery and justice, why would you make a better mayor than Eric Adams or Andrew Yang, in particular? Then I'll ask you where you would put yourself on the ideological spectrum.

Commissioner Garcia: The very clear distinction is I have a real vision for this city about affordability, about livability, because that keeps people here. I have the experience to actually get it done. That is the absolute differential. If they think I should be running their government, just let me run the government. Let's cut out the middleman. That's the clear--

Brian: I'll just tell our listeners, Andrew Yang made a reference to wanting to hire you in a very prominent role because you're so competent if he's elected mayor. You're saying cut out the middleman and just vote for you. What about Eric Adams, who has a lot of experience obviously NYPD captain, borough president, state Senator and also running in the competent manager lane?

Commissioner Garcia: There's a enormous difference between actually managing 10,000 people and managing a hundred people at Borough Hall and having to actually deliver services every single day for New Yorkers and being basically an advocate for Brooklyn. It's wildly, wildly different day to day.

Brian: What about ideologically for those New Yorkers who are looking for progressive policy and consider that something they're measuring the candidates by? Maya Wiley, Diane Morales, and Scott Stringer all have that reputation more. Can you argue that people are missing things about you in those regards? Do you not want that tag?

Commissioner Garcia: I am a very practical progressive, is how I would phrase it. I want to see us have a more livable city that is more equitable, but that is growing and dynamic as well. I don't think those are one bucket or another. That's what we should all want to be able to thrive in the city of New York.

Brian: Kumar in Flushing, you're on WNYC with Kathryn Garcia running for mayor. Hi, Kumar.

Kumar: Hi, Brian. Thanks for taking my call. My question to Garcia is that she says she will increase the payment of guns turning in to 2,000. If a guy has a gun and he turns in it for 2,000, he gets the money and you go buys another gun. What sort of a system does she have to control this?

Brian: Commissioner.

Commissioner Garcia: Yes. Investing in getting guns off the street is the quickest and easiest way to begin to lower gun violence. That is just one part of the plan. It is also about working closely with our federal partners to stop the flow of illegal guns. My point here is it is worth it to pay the $2,000 so that people have money in their pockets to pay the rent than to have that gun floating around on the streets of New York, where it could harm someone. We've seen that happen across the city, and that's why I'm focused on it.

Brian: Of course, we could get into all kinds of comparisons on anti-crime platforms, which we don't have time to do, and it's not really in the scope of the economic justice and economic recovery frame of this segment. It does make me think about my previous question about the ideological spectrum. Are there any specific policies that you would tout your differences on with the candidates in that progressive lane? Anything with stringer, for example, who is also seen as in the competent manager lane like you are?

Commissioner Garcia: Well, certainly I understand that having police as a service where people feel safe in their communities, but also respected is critical. I have not been part of the move to reduce the resources of the NYPD. That is clearly something where we vary. I have been focused on understanding the fundamentals and foundational city services that allow our economy to do well because you don't get tourists back if there's shootings in Times Square, they're not going to come. It is foundational to get that right and it is something that we do differ on.

Brian: One more call. Alaina in Park Slope, you're on WNYC with Kathryn Garcia. Hi, Alaina.

Alaina: Hi, thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to know how the commissioner would deal with the affordable housing situation differently from Mayor de Blasio, who was certainly helpful with like rent stabilization and trying to cut back on all of the apartments that we lost during the Bloomberg years. He also spends a lot of his time working with developers rather than community housing advocates. I just wanted to know what her stance was regarding the developers versus the community housing advocates.

Commissioner Garcia: First of all, I actually have some idea about how much things cost in the city of New York. Some of my fellow candidates did not know the cost of housing in this city, but housing is a right--

Brian: We'll shout those out for context. Let's see, it was Sean Donovan and who was the other one who thought the average cost to buy a home in Brooklyn--

Commissioner Garcia: Ray McGuire.

Brian: Oh, Ray McGuire. A $100,000 they said.

Commissioner Garcia: I'll take it. If someone's willing to sell me an apartment for $100,000 I'll take it.

Brian: They need little time on StreetEasy. Go ahead.

Commissioner Garcia: Yes. Or, the real estate section, anything. My plan and approach to affordable housing is multi-pronged. It is about getting NYCHA in shape to doing what is called the blueprint, which allows you to get loans out on a federal voucher, federal dollars, to do rehab of those, and really make the change there. It is about building 50,000 units of deeply affordable housing, about ending exclusionary zoning. Of course, I want to work with Community Housing advocates, as well as the community at large to make sure we're getting affordable housing built because those are homes for our families.

Brian: Let me ask you about one more story in the news right now that does not pertain to you and then I'll let you make a closing statement. Andrew Yang is in the headlines now for his pro-Israel tweet with a new conflict flaring there. Critics say he should have at least acknowledge the Palestinian suffering in the conflict too.

I don't know if you've ever thought much about Middle East politics while running the sanitation department or anything else. Do you have your own position on the conflict or on Yang's tweet? How would you handle that part of being Mayor generally, which I think is outside of your experience, cheerleader from many ethnic and religious and national communities from around the world in our very diverse city, especially when the home countries or populations are embroiled in things that may involve conflict among some of the groups?

Commissioner Garcia: The escalation in violence in the Middle East is just sad and disheartening, the loss of life. I believe that we need to see peace, but I've been thinking that for like my entire life since the Carter administration when there was some hope that we were going to move in that direction. Clearly, the state of Israel needs to exist, we have strong partnerships with them.

They're like our fourth-largest trading partner with the City of New York, but the escalation in violence is really incredibly sad to see, and the loss of life. You never want to see that, particularly because we know that this type of thing touches New York City family, that many of us have family abroad around the world. It does resonate here. I'm just very saddened by it.

Brian: You're saddened by it. Would you put more blame on either side for the escalation of violence, or propose any US foreign policy intervention?

Commissioner Garcia: I don't think it's appropriate for the Mayor of New York to be doing foreign policy, but I want to make sure that I'm supportive of the communities here in New York City and our families who are being impacted by it.

Brian: All right. Final question, you can use it to make any closing statement on our theme of economic inequality, or I should say economic recovery meets economic justice post-pandemic, how would you define success in terms of economic equity after four years as mayor?

Commissioner Garcia: The vision I have for this city is a much more livable city, a more affordable city. Success means that people can raise their families here, that it is a greener city where our health is better because our air is cleaner, that kids are getting great education, and joining the middle class, and being able to then have their own families.

My goal is to ensure that everyone gets to have what my mother has, which is to be able to grow old gracefully here with her grandchildren, able to still live in this city, and everyone being able to pursue careers that really give them a sense of mission.

Brian: Any particular metrics, though, that you would measure success by?

Commissioner Garcia: I actually have put up on our website a dashboard of all of the metrics of our policies to keep us on track and keep us focused.

Brian: Listeners can go online and see that. Again, listeners, you can tune in to the debate tomorrow night at seven o'clock in which I'll be one of the questioners along with Errol Louis from NY1 and Josefa Velasquez from The City with Kathryn Garcia and the seven other leading Democratic mayoral hopefuls. Kathryn Garcia, thank you so much for coming on the show again, we appreciate. This is your third round of interviews as the candidates continue to make themselves accessible. Thank you very much and I will see you on Skype tomorrow night.

Commissioner Garcia: See you on Skype.

 

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