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Matt Katz: It's the Brian Lehrer Show. I'm WNYC reporter, Matt Katz, sitting in for Brian today. New York City has a bathroom problem. Public bathrooms, there are not many of them. If you live in New York City or you've come to visit, you know the anxiety of being out and about and needing a bathroom, but having nowhere to go. Listeners, what are your tips for finding a clean, accessible bathroom when you need one immediately? Give us a call, 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. How bad is the city's lack of places to go?

According to a 2019 report from the comptroller's office, New York ranks 93rd out of the 100 largest US cities in the number of public bathrooms per capita. Just 16 bathrooms for every hundred thousand residents, places like St. Paul, Minnesota, and Cincinnati are far ahead of us. Listeners, how do you find a bathroom? Do you have any tips for how to find a bathroom in the outer boroughs in neighborhoods that aren't filled with hotels and museums and other public places like that? 212-433-9692. Here in the city, we have very few options.

According to the website NYCgo, these are some of the options that people use. Major transit hubs like grand central terminal, some public parks. Apparently, you could also ask a police station to use their bathroom. Maybe tried that. There's also a few automated sidewalk toilets. We'll talk about those, but they're not free. It's a quarter to use for 15 minutes. There are about 70 subway stations with bathrooms according to the city's website, but the pandemic forced many of those to close.

In fact, the COVID pandemic made it even harder to access bathrooms in general, businesses and restaurants stopped letting people inside their stores to pick up their food, let alone use the bathroom in the store. Often businesses have those restroom for employee and customers only sign or-- Excuse me, restroom for employees only, and no customer signs. Maybe there's a codes against the bathroom, but that's on a receipt. You have to buy something first. Do you shell out money just to use the bathroom? If you're homeless or can't spend any money do and you can't buy anything, what do you do? What are your options? Listeners, we want to hear from you.

Where is your go-to public bathroom spot? Is there a bodega that will let you go if you ask nicely? Give us a call 212-433-9692. Maybe you have a bathroom emergency. You want to tell us about. Business owners we want to hear from you too. What's your bathroom policy. What's your experience with this issue? Do you make exceptions for pregnant people if you don't normally let the public use the bathroom? The Crohn's and Colitis Fairness Act actually requires businesses to make their bathrooms available to anyone with a condition that requires frequent bathroom trips.

Is that happening? The number again 212-433-9692. Maybe you've turned to those TikTok accounts for help? Have you seen those? They'll tell you where the nearest bathroom is public or not, and even share bathroom access codes. I want to play a clip from a big account that I follow, got2gonyc. The creator is Theodora Siegel.

Theodora Siegel: If you're out in New York City and got to go, here are my top five tricks on how to find a bathroom quickly. One that works without fail is if you say you're pregnant or just started your period. If you're not someone who gets a period, you could try saying that you have IBS. That will probably work too. Number two, never ask to use the bathroom. Always walk in like you own the place and look for one yourself. Sometimes people will tell you that they don't have a bathroom even when they do.

Number three, department stores. Most department stores in New York City have free bathrooms. If you go to the elevators, that's usually where they have maps that say where they are. Number four supermarkets. Number five, I have a shared Google maps list linked in my bio of all the free bathrooms in New York City. Every single one of those pins is a bathroom. You'll never have anxiety again about finding one in New York City.

Matt: That's Theodore Siegel from her TikTok account. She'll actually be on WNYC's morning addition tomorrow so we can hear a longer interview with her, but for now we have Manhattan Borough President Mark Levine. He's going to discuss a new bill from the city council that will add public restrooms to New York City streets if it's passed. Borough President, welcome back to WNYC.

Mark Levine: Thank you so much, Matt. Great job today so far.

Matt: Appreciate that very much. How bad is our public bathroom shortage? Can you describe this problem from your perspective?

Mark: Oh, we've all been there. We've all been out in the street desperate to go and you can't find a bathroom that's open and accessible and functioning. This is a problem. If you're a regular new Yorker, if you're a tourist, if you are a delivery worker, if you're a street vendor, if you are pregnant or menstruating, it's impacting all of us. This is a public health issue. This is an equity issue. It's about human dignity. It tells you everything you need to know that there's an entire cottage industry of social media influencers who are helping us navigate this world. It shouldn't take that. In fact, Teddy Siegel, who's amazing and, and is behind got2gonyc is joined in our push on legislation.

Other cities have figured this out around the country and the world. We've put forward legislation that would drag New York City forward. It would require one new public bathroom in every zip code of the city. That would be a big start towards equity and towards more comprehensive coverage.

Matt: All right, council president, we're going to-- excuse me, Borough President. We're going to ask you to stay on with us and we're going to take some calls, get some tips, and hear some feedback on this issue. Let's start with Rachel in Middlebury, Connecticut. Hi, Rachel, you've got some ideas.

Rachel: Good morning. I hate to give away my secret peace spots, but I will.

Matt: Okay. Go for it.

Rachel: I like to go to the Highline Hotel. They're very nice, very good bathrooms, ACE Hotel, go downstairs to the where the gym is and I go to piece spots, find a public park, you're going to be okay in their restrooms. Sometimes you might have to bring your own toilet paper.

Matt: Fantastic. Thank you so much. Very good tips. Akhmad in Brooklyn. Hey, there. What do you got?

Akhmad: How's it doing? Doing good. This is Akhmad from Brooklyn. I go to courthouses. I go through the scanner and it's pretty clean in there and pretty quiet. That's what I do while I'm on my route.

Matt: That's great tips. I guess you just wait online to go through this security and then you're going to get a regularly cleaned bathroom in there.

Akhmad: Exactly. I'd usually leave all my keys and metal objects in the truck go right in.

Matt: Thank you very much, Akhmad. Appreciate it.

Mark: Can I say something on that?

Matt: Please.

Mark: We're going to need many different solutions to solve this problem. We're going to need bathrooms installed on sidewalks. We'll need more park bathrooms, but government buildings are potentially a huge asset here because we have thousands of bathrooms in government buildings around the city and they could be more publicly accessible. We could have clear communication about that, this doesn't have to be a secret tip. Courthouses are one option and there's many more that could be open to the public more freely.

Matt: Courthouse bathrooms, I imagine now are open to the public, but other government buildings or buildings that you don't realize are government buildings, they could be used to meet the requirements of this proposal, right?

Mark: Yes, absolutely. They're usually ADA accessible bathrooms, but the public doesn't know they can go in. City government should advertise that among other improvements.

Matt: Let's go to Cheryl in Brooklyn. Hi there, Cheryl.

Cheryl: Hi. I have a restaurant Cheryl's Global Soul in Brooklyn. Not that it's a plug, but I'm near the Prospect Park. We get a lot of people that just are coming out of the park and the bathrooms are closed, but I let everyone use my bathroom. I think just as a citizen and also as a Black woman having a small child in the past where I'd walk into restaurants and they'd be like, "Oh no, customers only." Anybody walking in is a potential customer, but I feel that just to be fair and to be a good citizen, it's important that restaurants allow anyone that needs a bathroom to use it.

Matt: Well, that's kind of you, Cheryl. You don't worry about-- I've heard business owners express concern about drug users, people shooting up in their bathrooms. Do you worry about that?

Cheryl: I really don't. We make it an assessment when people walk in. If someone clearly looks like they're-- if something's up, I might say, "I'm sorry, no." But I find that just because I was turned away with a small child from so many places in Manhattan, when my son was younger, I just feel that it's just such a bad policy. You make that assessment when you see someone, but don't judge.

Mark: Matt, if I could just first compliment Cheryl for being exemplary as a business owner. The pushback that we hear often which is I think completely wrongheaded is that this is going to exacerbate the problem of homelessness or drug use on the street. Those are crises which we're not going to solve by limiting access to public bathrooms. Frankly, it's a win for everybody if people including the unhoused have a place to go. We don't want to let nimbyism be an obstacle here. In fact, we're making good progress on that front. Community boards more and more are actually taking the lead on this. This is a win for everybody, including people who are unhoused, but let's not use this as a way to attack the people who are suffering in our city.

Matt: Good point for Borough President. John, in the Bronx. What are your suggestions?

John: Depends on the time of day my friend. If it's early enough, barber shops, libraries, definitely coffee shop. If it's a Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts, they usually have a restroom, but can I just say one thing? In the outer boroughs, it seems like a setup. I know so many guys that have gotten tickets for standing behind a tree or a car because they couldn't make it. As an adult, I'm going to say this it's not too many of us that are going to willingly urinate on ourselves. You know what I'm saying? Something has to be done. I feel like part of it is a setup. They know you're out in the street. You have to go somewhere. Thank you.

Matt: Thank you very much for calling, John. Those are good suggestions. Borough President should people be getting tickets if they're out in Queens and it's late at night and they just need to pull over and use a tree.

Mark: How about a better solution? Let's open public bathrooms so they don't have to do that. That should be the solution and it should be citywide not just Manhattan. That's why the bill requires-- takes a zip code based approach. It requires one new bathroom in every zip code. Wherever you are out in the city there's I think 214 zip codes. This would be a big boost to the network. They should be 24/7 and there needs to be staffing to ensure that they're maintained and kept clean. If we have that then no one's going to be forced to hide behind a tree or a car. That's the vision that we really need to implement

Matt: This has been a amazing discussion. Twitter is blowing up over this there and I implore everybody to listen to morning edition tomorrow morning. We're going to talk more about this. Borough President of Manhattan, Borough President Mark Levine, thank you very much for coming on and talking about this issue.

Mark: Thank you, Matt. A very quick shout out to Councilmember Rita Joseph, who's the lead sponsor in the city council. Just been an amazing leader on this issue.

Matt: Excellent. Thanks so much Borough President and thank you all for your calls on this. Be sure to continue to tweet at us @BrianLehrer. Let us know where you go, how you find a bathroom when you really need one. It's been a pleasure hanging out with everybody today. I'm Matt Katz filling in for Brian Lehrer. Thank you for tuning in. Brian, will be back tomorrow.

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