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Arun Venugopal: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Arun Venugopal from the WNYC newsroom, filling in for Brian Lehrer who's off today. On today's show, $23 to drive into Manhattan. That's at the top end of the range of toll prices in the MTA's congestion pricing plan. The agency released new details this week. WNYC reporter Stephen Nessen is going to join us and share more. Plus, if you've tried to fly anywhere in the past couple of months, you know that it's been a chaotic scene at airports.

New York Times travel reporter Heather Murphy explains why it's such a mess and she shares some tips for those of you who are still brave enough to fly anywhere. Have you seen any of those notorious spotted lanternflies? Pretty, but invasive red and black-winged insects are everywhere this summer. Julie Urban from Penn State's entomology department will tell us whether we are still allowed to squish all the lanternflies we spot.

First, we'll recap last night's congressional debate for NY-10 and listen to some clips from it. NY-10 was redrawn after the fraud redistricting process earlier this year and it's rather gnarly. The district stretches from the West Village across to the East Village and then it goes down to Brooklyn Heights, Red Hook, Park Slope, Sunset Park, and Borough Park. Last night's debate was only open to the six leading candidates in this rather crowded field and moderators Errol Louis and Brigid Bergin covered a whole lot of ground. Let's get into it with WNYC and Gothamist own Brigid Bergin, senior political correspondent. Hi, Brigid. Great to have you with us.

Brigid Bergin: It's so great to be here with you in studio, Arun.

Arun Venugopal: That's right. Brigid, what is so special about this race?

Brigid Bergin: Arun, this is an open seat, which is a very rare thing in New York politics. Because of this redistricting process, there's no incumbent and so you have this field of really strong candidates. As you said, this debate last night was the six leading contenders. There are actually 13 candidates on the entire ballot, but these candidates who were on the stage tonight, excuse me, on the stage last night, were all candidates who either were previous elected officeholders or had raised $500,000, so really showed that they had strong support within the community. They used every opportunity they could last night to, I think, really make their closing arguments to voters.

Arun Venugopal: Well, we're going to have some clips, lots of clips, but let's talk about the candidates and how they stand out or are trying to stand out. You have Mondaire Jones. He is an incumbent albeit in another district that was affected when the maps were redrawn. You have Yuh-Line Niou. She's in the State Assembly, as is Jo Anne Simon, Carlina Rivera is a current city council member. Elizabeth Holtzman. She last held elected office in 1993. Then you have Daniel Goldman, a would be first time politician. Some listeners may need an introduction. Can you give it to them?

Brigid Bergin: Another thing to note about this district is it's an incredibly left-leaning liberal district. This primary is going to ultimately decide who becomes the next congressional representative for the newly drawn 10th District. It also has incredibly high voter turnout. It has among the highest turnout precincts in the city. That field that you just described is a field of people who bring a lot of experience, expertise, some of it more local, in terms of the people who have been state and city elected officials, and then some more on the federal level.

I think the way I would distinguish within that group itself. You have City Council Member Carlina Rivera, Assembly Member Yuh-Line Niou and Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon who really bring some pretty deep policy expertise when it comes to issues within the district that have really dealt with the nitty-gritty issues of the district. Then on the federal level, you have Elizabeth Holtzman, who served as a member of Congress, as the Brooklyn District Attorney and as the city controller, but who hasn't been in office in several decades as she has said.

The Democratic impeachment attorney, Dan Goldman. Someone who is also probably familiar to people who watch a lot of MSNBC because he's spent a lot of time as a contributor to MSNBC. Then, as you mentioned, Congressman Mondaire Jones, who had previously represented and currently represents the 17th congressional district, which is up in the Hudson Valley, Rockland, and Westchester and because of redistricting was poised to face Sean Patrick Maloney, who is another incumbent from the Hudson Valley and by the way, head of the DCCC, so a very influential incumbent.

Instead of facing off against the head of the DCCC, Congressman Jones made the decision to move down to this open seat, is now a resident of Carroll Gardens, as you noted last night.

Arun Venugopal: Just to be clear for people who don't know what the DCCC is.

Brigid Bergin: Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

Arun Venugopal: That's right. Someone who has access to?

Brigid Bergin: Someone who's really responsible for trying to get Democrats elected to Congress across the country and to direct funding to help them to do that.

Arun Venugopal: Let's get into the night itself, the debate. What did we hear if anything about how they're presenting themselves, how they're trying to stand out on the stage where you're really relying on punchy moments to hopefully separate yourself from the pack?

Brigid Bergin: I think this is a field that on a lot of the big issues is generally on the same end of the spectrum. Where you start to hear some nuance and some difference is when you start to get into the particulars. There was a discussion on issues related to crime and bail reform, and how the candidates would view what is driving increase in crime. We heard from the more left-leaning progressive candidates, Assembly Members Yuh-Line Niou, Congressman Mondaire Jones that to combat this increase in crime, you really need to invest in social services.

On the other end of that you heard from former district attorney Elizabeth Holtzman and also former impeachment attorney Daniel Goldman, this idea that potentially we do need to reconsider some of the bail reforms that were made and reevaluate how to administer justice. Goldman specifically talked about recidivism and yet, it felt like Holtzman tried to walk a fine line.

She even invoked, not by name, the story of Kalief Browder, someone who was held on Rikers Island and ultimately then killed himself and it was all over an alleged knapsack that had been stolen. There was some daylight there. I think also you started to see the candidates take shots at each other where they saw that there was an opportunity and certainly, Goldman was the recipient of a lot of that when it came to some of his finances.

Arun Venugopal: Let's talk a little more about that. Certainly something that, as you said, has made him a target for other people who are trying to make light of his wealth.

Brigid Bergin: Here's an individual who has a track record as a federal prosecutor, certainly has served as a public servant in that capacity, but who comes from a family of wealth, is heir to the Levi Strauss fortune, recently loaned his own campaign about a million dollars and his personal investments became something of a punching bag for a lot of the candidates on the stage because they included investments in companies that include Fox News and gun manufacturers.

That was something that he shot back that because some of these other candidates also have investments in portfolios, they too, have investments in some of these companies, but the scale of what we're talking about is obviously much different because he is a much wealthier individual.

Arun Venugopal: Listeners, we can take your reactions too. How'd you feel about last night's debate in New York's 10th congressional district. Voters in the district which stretches, once again, from Lower Manhattan to Brooklyn Heights, Red Hook, Park Slope, Sunset Park, and Borough Park or if you're from anywhere, your questions about the race are welcome for our guest, Brigid Bergin, senior political correspondent at WNYC and Gothamist.

You can call 212-433-WNYC. That is 212-433-9692. Brigid, one of the first issue-based questions of the night was on the subject of immigration, something that's playing out right before our eyes, given that Texas Governor Greg Abbott's recent political ploy is to send refugees, asylum seekers, rather, on buses to New York City. Tell me about the responses from this field and what stood out.

Brigid Bergin: Well, I think, again, this is a field of candidates who by and large are sympathetic to people who are seeking asylum who believe that New York and the US is a place where immigrants should feel welcome and should come but you did start to hear some differences in terms of someone like Assemblymember Yuh-Line Niou, for example, who probably went the furthest to talk about the way the US should be approaching immigration in general. I think we have a little.

Arun Venugopal: Yes. Let's listen to what she said.

Yuh-Line Niou: I think that the elimination of ice would be the best way to go because this is an atrocity right now how we are hurting and harming people. I think that one of the biggest things that we were able to do on the state level is to keep ice out of courthouses, make sure that we have the Dream Act and the green light bill.

Arun Venugopal: How do you think this plays in this district? Obviously, you said it's a very left-leaning district. Still, abolishing ice is something that not every person on the left will necessarily own.

Brigid Bergin: I think this was part of how Assemblymember Niou, was really among the way she was trying to define herself as the leading progressive candidate in this race. She's been endorsed by the Working Families Party and I think she wanted to make clear that this goes beyond simply the political optics. The tug of war that's going on now, between Governor Abbott and Mayor Adams trading barbs over, literally playing with people's lives and moving them around as though they're chess pieces on a board, and really trying to draw a line in the sand that the US needs to approach the way we are taking care of people in this country in a different way.

You're right, that I think there are some people who would potentially object. There are other things that ice does beyond simply what we see in terms of pursuing reads, et cetera but I think it was part of her making very clear. She also identified herself as the only immigrant on the stage. Her family's from Taiwan. I think that conversation and certainly given how much that is in the news right now in the city was a really important place to start.

Arun Venugopal: Did anybody push back to what she's saying about ice?

Brigid Bergin: I don't think anyone picked up on that explicitly. There was some discussion about who should bear the financial responsibility for the services that these individuals who have fled a dangerous situation in their country will inevitably need? Former congressman Liz Holtzman raised the fact that when she was in Congress, one of her accomplishments was establishing legislation that allowed for refugees to enter this country and that the funding should follow them.

I think this conversation still has the overt politics of what is happening in Texas. The fact that Governor Abbott is someone else who is running for reelection right now.

This political football that is being tossed back and forth with Mayor Adams and Governor Abbott and that is something else the candidates were asked to weigh in on specifically, a question that Mayor Adams or a rhetorical statement really that I think Mayor Adams tossed out about this idea that he was considering sending a bus of people to go to Texas to campaign against Governor Abbott.

The candidates were asked would you be on that bus. All of them said, yes. I thought Assemblymember John Simon said it, the most tongue in cheek was as long as he's paying for the bus fare. This idea that collectively, this is a group of candidates that wants to push back on what we are seeing coming from Texas, I think was clear across the board.

Arun Venugopal: All right. We're going to take our first call today. Harry in the East Village, you're on Brian Lehrer. What do you have to say about the debate last night or about the candidates?

Harry: Well, I want to talk about Carlina Rivera. May I?

Arun Venugopal: Yes, well, is there specifically something in the debate that you noticed you want to address?

Harry: Well, it's about her and it was alluded to in the debate. Is that all right?

Arun Venugopal: Sure. What is it Harry?

Harry: It's about she is our representative in the council and she has the ability to veto especially buildings and things if she votes against it. She has promised to do so in voting against and she's flipped about four or five times and I don't trust her.

Arun Venugopal: All right. Harry from the East Village, I guess not a supporter of Carlina Rivera, are you hearing other things like that sometimes? There are advantages to being a local representative which you bring, you're really close to the ground. On the other hand, I guess there are people like Harry who have lost all faith.

Brigid Bergin: What Harry's talking about I think is related to the redevelopment of the East River Park. I presume and there's been certainly a lot of people within the council member's district and very much so online, on social media who have objected to some of the redevelopment of that site. Really, I think, the process that played out complaining about a lack of transparency and a lack of communication from the city, years of planning related to what the community wanted to see and how the community wanted to see it done. Then complaints that there were changes.

I think that what we heard from councilmember Rivera last night was a defense of what she said was the need to make a tough decision and the need to respond to what is the ever-present threat of climate change. She cited the flooding that impacted so much of the East Village and so many of the NYCHA developments when Sandy hit 10 years ago and said, ultimately, they just couldn't wait. That I think is an explanation that she has stood by.

It is not an explanation that satisfies certain constituents in her district and they remain very vocal and very critical of this project. I think it's something we're going to have to see how much that has an impact on turnout. When people are asked to make their ultimate decision, how that impacts her vote?

Arun Venugopal: Yes, actually, we do have some clips from Carlina Rivera among others. Let's hear her addressing the East River Park Project if we can play that one.

Carlina Rivera: My record and standing up to the real estate industry is clear. I've taken on big interest. I've passed legislation around tenant protections, and I supported legislation at the state level for a good cause.

Arun Venugopal: Different clip but it sounds like she was put on the spot I think after Goldman had raised the issue.

Brigid Bergin: Well, another criticism that she has received and it was a question that I posed to her, which was essentially, you've received a lot of donations from individuals, real estate developers and lobbyists with business before the city. Those are donations that as a city council candidate, she would not be able to accept but as a congressional candidate she's able to accept. The question was what do you say to critics who see that as a backdoor to influence you in your current position? That was a response which was a very, I think, direct, I stand up for my community, I am not being influenced by those who are giving me money. Look at my record because it speaks to that.

Arun Venugopal: Let's get to the clip that we meant to in response to what you addressed earlier about the East River Park. One more clip from Carlina Rivera before we move on to other candidates from last night.

Carlina Rivera: Every hurricane season where we do not have another Sandy is a bullet dodged. The East Side Coast Resiliency Project is a $1.5 billion investment, federal funds that our community earned years ago. As we see what happened in Red Hook, they're asking, where's their investment? Where's their flood protection? This is going to be a part of our conversation going forward. These will be tough decisions and you need someone who's able to take bold stances.

Brigid Bergin: As you hear there she is essentially defending her position saying that the time was now and that the need to act was now that we face this ongoing threat of increasingly severe coastal storms. While we have not had another Sandy yet, we don't know when the next will hit and that the city needs to build infrastructure to be able to prepare for it.

I think there are certain constituents within her district that in particular just feel a sense of devastation about what has happened to the current East River Park, who point to the trees, some thousand trees that have been removed. Certainly as part of the redevelopment, new trees will be built, but old growth trees versus new growth trees. It will take time but this is a decision she made and a decision she will have to live with and we will see how it impacts her.

Arun Venugopal: There are candidates in this race who are obviously seeking endorsements and then there are candidates who are very much not seeking endorsements. Let's talk about that. Right now you asked yourself, asked the six candidates whether they'd accept Bill de Blasio's endorsement. Let's hear a few of the responses that pretty much sum things up.

Yuh-Line Niou: I have not sought endorsement from Bill de Blasio.

Brigid: Would you accept it?

Yuh-Line Niou: No, thank you.

Mondaire Jones: I am not interested in thqt.

Jo Anne Simon: I haven't sought it and I would not accept it.

Arun Venugopal: There we have Yuh-Line Niou, Mondaire Jones and Jo Anne Simon. Were you surprised by this at all, Brigid?

Brigid Bergin: I have to say I actually was surprised. Certainly, Mayor de Blasio dropped out of the race by his own admission because his campaign was not picking up the support that he thought was necessary and that one would need to win this race. However, this is his home district. Park Slope is a key neighborhood in this district. His name is still on the ballot, even though he has stopped running for the office himself.

Regardless of what you think of his time as Mayor, with its ups, with its downs, there are people who still support him. I was actually surprised that no one would accept the endorsement for the benefit of the supporters themselves. I was actually a little surprised that they were also quick to just say no.

Arun Venugopal: I'm Arun Venugopal from the WNYC newsroom filling in for Brian today. We're going to take a quick break. When we're back, more of your calls and some more clips from last night's, NY-10 primary debate with one of the moderators, my colleague, Brigid Bergin, stay with us.

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It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. I'm Arun Venugopal from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian Lehrer, who is off today. My guest is WNYC's senior politics correspondent, Brigid Bergin, who co-moderated along with Errol Louis from Spectrum News NY1, the NY-10 Democratic Primary Debate with about half the candidates, 6 set of 13 competing in this wide-open race, which has no incumbent.

You had some hyper-local issues, some of which we've discussed and then there's some big picture stuff. Let's talk about one of those, Brigid, I think it was Errol, your co-moderator who asked each candidate how they believe people in power should proceed with respect to holding Donald Trump accountable, whether for the sake of national unity, he might be pardon like Nixon was. They all pretty much said no and then Mondaire Jones added this, let's listen.

Mondaire Jones: The Republican party has had a real problem, a real crisis, or bent towards anti-democracy and fascism long before Donald Trump became the president of the United States. I think this is an area that distinguishes me for Mr. Goldman because he seems to believe that Donald Trump is the cause of all of our problems. The Republican party was doing voter suppression and trying not to certify different elections long before the election of Donald J. Trump.

Arun Venugopal: Now, Brigid, Mondaire Jones pointed to some of the more systemic issues within the Republican party. Did that generate any response?

Brigid Bergin: I thought what the candidates were trying to do in that conversation was to distinguish their views of the Republican party. Everyone thinks that there are problems with the Republican party. Obviously, this is a democratic primary debate, but when you hear someone like former Congresswoman Liz Holtzman describe her position on that. She is talking about her role in the Nixon impeachment.

She was asked to reflect on this idea of we are such a deeply divided country now, how do we start to knit ourselves back together? Part of what she said, was that in the wake of Watergate and her time in office that the country coalesced around this idea that there was something wrong, that you didn't need to knit the country need to knit the country back together because there were Republican lawmakers who were ready to go to the president and say, "If you don't step down, we're going to impeach you."

Arun Venugopal: They held him accountable.

Brigid Bergin: They held him accountable. By contrast, I think Goldman was trying to make the point that the Republican party that is led by former president Trump is a much different party, that we are seeing tactics that are being deployed whether it's misinformation, insurrection on January 6th, that just are things that we have not seen historically up to this point. I think the distinction that you heard Congressman Jones try to make in that clip you just played is yes, but.

There have been efforts to suppress votes long before the Trump white house took effect. I think it's a reminder of the issues that particularly voters of color have at the forefront of their mind when it comes to voting rights and ballot access. Those are issues that we do see play out across the country. Certainly, we've seen states enact more restrictive voting laws across the country. Those are not only during the period of the Trump administration.

Arun Venugopal: Speaking of Holtzman, one of the things that the debate didn't get into she has this to say about women's issues. Let's listen to her right now.

Elizabeth Holtzman: But I want to say that by this time in the debate, we should be on women's issues too. Abortion rights are under threat in this country, and we need to be discussing that here in the debate.

Arun Venugopal: She said she had a 10-point plan she wanted to discuss, is that something that you think has been prominent in this campaign?

Brigid Bergin: Certainly, we know that this is a summer where decisions emanating from the US Supreme court have just positively monumental impact on the lives of US citizens and likely may influence how people are thinking about elections. In this democratic primary, in one of the most liberal districts in New York, there isn't a ton of daylight among the candidates on these issues.

They have in the many forums, these candidates have attended have talked a lot about some of these issues. Part of what we were trying to do in the debate last night was to tease out some of the issues that we haven't heard these candidates talk about, that we don't know actually where they stand and that do impact the lives of people in this district. Take an issue, congestion pricing, it is not a federal issue.

However, it will have an impact on constituents and constituents will inevitably turn to some of their federal representatives to seek some perspective. There can be additional impacts beyond just the cost of something, public health impacts, et cetera. I think Holtzman raised a totally valid issue. One of the things having moderated a debate just a week ago, several members of Congress had to do was to pivot and just talk about the issue that they wanted to talk about which is something that we have heard many politicians do before.

I guess, there was also an opportunity during the cross-examination to frame a conversation how you wanted to. I think that there were opportunities to inject that, and there was a reason why we didn't go there because we wanted to get to some of the new topics.

Arun Venugopal: We've got a call from Jo in Park Slope, Brooklyn. Jo, there's one issue in particular that you are really concerned about. What is it?

Jo: Yes. Hi, thank you so much. It is women's health rights. I think that district 10, I've seen my neighbors, just everyone come out march over the Brooklyn bridge to talk about how they're really concerned about what is happening in the wake of Roe V. Wade being overturned. It was just shocking for me and my friends that if there was more of a discussion on alternate side of the street parking than an issue that has mobilized us to come out of our homes, and we just need more leadership at the federal level representing us to figure this out. I don't know if there's a way or a forum to revisit that with the candidates.

Arun Venugopal: Jo, is there a candidate that you think, basically, does represent you on this front?

Jo: Well, just what Brigid said before. The only person who even mentioned it in the debate last night was Liz Holzman. I know she has in the past been very vocal and a true leader in women's rights, but I would just love to know, what do people plan to do, because this is such a concerning issue among so many people in the district.

Arun Venugopal: Thank you so much for your call, Jo. Brigid, is there any way to know whether abortion rights and what happened since Supreme Curt struck Roe V. Wade down. Do you get the impression, I don't know if there's any data on this, that this is driving people like Jo to the polls or will?

Brigid Bergin: I think we've seen where voters have turned out nationally that this is a galvanizing issue. You can look at the referendum in Kansas from last week that would have potentially restricted abortion access. Voters said, "No, we do not want to see you put this restriction in." I think that there is a signal that this will be likely a galvanizing issue. I think it is a vital conversation and something that is absolutely worth talking about and holding candidates accountable on.

I think in a general election context where it is clearer that candidates stand in opposition to each other, that is one of the ways that we'll start to see a little bit more daylight, but I think in this particular primary field, I don't think any of the candidates who we saw would be candidates who would not be fighting to restore a woman's right to choose.

Arun Venugopal: No real surprises expected on that front. Now, let's return for a moment to Goldman and the attacks on his wealth. We want to hear how he defended himself in that respect. This is how he responded.

Daniel Goldman: I was in a blind trust with all my money when I was a prosecutor. I will put my money in a blind trust as a Congress person because [crosstalk]

Mondaire Jones: It is not currently in a blind trust.

Daniel Goldman: I'm speaking. I am a vigorous advocate for ensuring that there are no ethical violations and that the American people know that their representatives are acting only in the people's interests, not in their personal interests.

Arun Venugopal: Brigid, who was that interjecting, "It is not currently in a blind trust."

Brigid Bergin: That was Congressman Jones, who was weighing in there. This was a series of questions about under the banner of protecting democracy, the role of money in politics. This concern about either where, who is giving to these candidates, whether that makes them behold into certain interests. We already had the conversation about city council member Rivera getting real estate lobbyist money, and the concerns that has raised for certain constituents. The next question was to Mr. Goldman about this million dollar he loaned his campaign, he also has a $25 to 50 million line of credit, Goldman Sachs. He has a very extensive--

Arun Venugopal: I didn't know that existed, but I don't have that line of credit yet.

Brigid Bergin: Well, and what was interesting was as part of that conversation, you heard Assemblymember Niou interject at one point like, "I can't lend myself a million dollars." I think part of what Mr. Goldman tried to do there was to point to the fact that he has played these important roles as a prosecutor and that he's been fighting to protect democracy and what he will do if he were to be elected to ensure that there's no conflict between his investments and the work he is doing as a elected representative.

Part of what I think Congressman Jones was trying to imply was, why wait, why not do it now? Why not have your money in a blind trust now? For Congressman Jones, the question was, he has raised a lot of money as well with a significant portion of it from out-of-state donors which then, again, he's also a recent transplant to this district. It was an opportunity for him to respond to critics who say, you are too new to this district to be the right representative.

He defended his connections to the district as the first openly gay Black man elected to Congress in 2020. What that means with this district particularly, and its historical significance to the gay rights movement. I think it was an opportunity to air out some of the points where these candidates are criticized the most, give them an opportunity to respond. One of the ways to respond was to sometimes avoid the question.

Arun Venugopal: Let's take a call from Stanley. Stanley, you're from what? 14th street, is that where you live?

Stanley: I'm on 14th street and I've been redistricted three times. I started out with Jerrold Nadler, then I was redistricted to Carolyn Maloney and now I'm in the 10th. One thing I have to say about the 12th race, I was so impressed with Jerrold Nadler's help every time I called his office, and Carolyn Maloney, let's say I was very disappointed. Now, as far as what I came into listening to the debate on WNYC and I wasn't sure who I was going to vote for. I was leaning towards Dan, but I was interested in Niou and Rivera and Holtzman.

I felt most of them were talking in slogans. Dan Goldman seemed to be clearer, more precise and more exact. He talked a lot about how he's been reaching out to small businesses. He seems to be not only talking to people, but also listening. As to what you were just talking about, the whole finance issue. One thing I was really impressed with is he wants to ban Congress from trading stocks and their wives. Right now Congress has a blanket check to do insider trading, which explains how some of them suddenly become multi-millionaires. I get mail from everyone. Yesterday, I got mail from--

Arun Venugopal: Stanley, we do have to wrap up. That's Stanley sounding more convinced at least about Goldman, but also concerned about a lot of sloganeering. Was that your your feeling that there were a lot of people who were, I guess not an unusual thing to respond with bumper sticker answers, but would you disagree, Brigid, since you did co-moderate the conversation?

Brigid Bergin: It was a two hour debate. We definitely got beyond some of their talking points. I think because part of it was we were talking about issues that potentially were issues that were things that they hadn't been asked to address in the past. I think that while I don't think you walked away with a clear winner of the debate, there were some differences that hopefully will help some voters make up their mind. Of course, ultimately, this is one of the races where I think the New York Times endorsement will play a crucial role. I think people will be waiting to see that very soon.

Arun Venugopal: We're going to squeeze in one more clip on the issue of crime, which you raised earlier in the conversation and the issue of bail. Lots of responses. I want to listen to Jo Anne Simon's right now.

Jo Anne Simon: I think it is critically important that we look beyond the rhetoric which has been unfortunately parroting the right wing when it comes to what we did with bail.

Arun Venugopal: We're going to leave it there. Anything to add, Brigid? I know you got to go.

Brigid Bergin: I think that this debate was different than the previous debate. Obviously, we had double the number of candidates, but you also heard the depth of both local policy expertise, national interests, and the fact that this is still a very wide-open race. We couldn't walk away and say, it's clear that o and so is the absolute front runner at this point. It'll be a really fascinating two weeks, early voting starts on this coming Saturday, August 13th. Hopefully, some people will make up their mind before then but you don't have to until August 23rd. Good luck. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Arun Venugopal: My guest has been WNYC's senior political correspondent and a co-moderator for last night's debate, Brigid Bergin. As she just said, primary election, that we've been discussing, that's August 23rd and early voting starts on the 13th of August. Brigid, thanks so much for joining us and for all your information and analysis.

Brigid Bergin: Thank you, Arun.

 

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