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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Today is the 97th day of Eric Adams' mayoralty. He hits his 100th day on Saturday. This is day six of the New York state fiscal year. The powers that be in Albany still don't have a budget, as they grapple with whether to revise the 2019 bail reform law under pressure from the mayor and the governor, and others. So many other things hang in the balance, including big initiatives on affordable housing, childcare, fair pay for home health care workers, and more.

We the public don't know how any of these things will turn out because the negotiations are being done in secret. Not secret anymore, is something Mayor Adam said in a Zoom call that was supposed to be private, with other administration officials. Ironically, he was admonishing advisors not to make statements to the press without Adams knowing about them. Sure enough, someone leaked that to the press without him knowing about it. The audio of the Zoom call included this.

Eric Adams: The first few months we've noticed that press advisories have gone out, the press releases have gone out. Number one, we knew nothing about it, or it was something that we were still contemplating here. That is just not how I operate. I'm a big believer in discipline, discipline on message, and discipline of action.

Brian Lehrer: Now, after that clip came out the other day reported by Politico in New York, the story so far has been of Adams, the micromanager of every word, all his commissioners say, but in fairness, there is a larger question there about who gets to make policy. The mayor didn't like that. The Fire Commissioner appeared to take an opposite position from the mayor on heated outdoor restaurant spaces. His health commissioner took a different position than him on masks for two to four-year-olds in school or daycare.

An NYPD official took a different position on surveillance of Muslims after 9/11. That's all big stuff to be sending mixed messages about. We'll talk now about Adams and his commissioners as they near the 100-day mark, about the moving parts in the state budget negotiations, about the billboards the city is taking in Florida against the "Don't Say Gay" law down there. Adams has a nice little feud going with Governor Ron DeSantis it seems now and more, with Joe Anuta, City Hall reporter for Politico.

In a minute, we'll also be joined by Sally Goldenberg, City Hall bureau chief for Politico New York. In a few more minutes, we'll also be joined by Politico's Bill Mahoney, covering the overtime budget negotiations in Albany. He warns us he may have to bail, however, because they could announce a deal any minute. Joe, thanks for coming on. Welcome to WNYC today.

Joe Anuta: Hi, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Let's talk about this discipline of message issue first, which was a political story. The audio was leaked to your news organization. What prompted the mayor's wrath on this?

Joe Anuta: It seems like a slow submarine of events here I think. He hasn't liked some of the stories that have come out, and then you did have a few of these instances where something he was saying was different than what his commissioners were saying. You mentioned the FDNY example. I think we also talked about one of his NYPD executives who was testifying at a recent City Council hearing and had been had a message very different from his about the NYPD's history of surveilling Muslim New Yorkers in the wake of 9/11. I think some of these things just added up and he decided to convene this meeting. Lo and behold, we got a copy of the audio about it.

Brian Lehrer: Credit to your colleague Julia Marsh at Politico in New York, who reported that story. People are reacting to it as kind of a control freak thing about what city agencies say on their own, down to notices about cherry blossoms in bloom, which was one of the references so we can get to the cherry blossoms, but the other examples I cited from the article are serious issues, right? Did surveillance of Muslims based on religion happen at the NYPD after 9/11?

Apparently, an NYPD official said no, but Adams has always said yes and also that it wasn't okay. Should the mask mandate come off for two to four-year-olds in schools and daycares when the first Omicron wave was ending? The new Health Commissioner Dr. Vasan was publicly leaning toward keeping the mandate while Adams was leaning against though of course he since delayed the mask coming off with the coming of Omicron 2. Would it be unusual historically for a mayor not to want to be publicly contradicted by his top appointees?

Joe Anuta: I think yes. I think mayors certainly like to have coherence there with their cabinet. Look, they're still filling out their administration. I think a lot of times these deputy mayors, these commissioners, usually, there's a full policy advisory team supporting them. I think those folks usually coordinate with City Hall about the big stuff that's going on in their departments. I think there's a balance that is usually struck somewhere.

Obviously, I don't think it's going to work out well for him to want to sign off on cherry blossom press releases. I think, in some cases, you need to give folks autonomy because you're just going to get this bottleneck where everything has to go through City Hall, and there's only so much they could process in a day. I certainly think you're right that the mayor should be able to expect that on bigger stuff, his commissioners are going to be saying what he wants his vision for the city, they should align.

[crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Go ahead. Finish you thought. You guess that--

Joe Anuta: No, I was just going to say I'm a little unclear, are there structural issues here? Are they missing some of these policy advisors? Like, where is the disconnect? Again, I think he's right to expect that on big issues, they're going to be on the same page.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, and yet we have a democracy, and open policy debate is a good thing, yet it's where that mayors or governors or presidents want their cabinet members debating them at the press. How much of an act of rebellion was it by whoever leaked that audio? I won't ask you who leaked that audio because I'm sure that's something that they want confidential and that any of us as journalists would keep the confidence of, but was it much of an act of rebellion by whoever leaked the audio of Adam saying that? It doesn't seem like it was a supportive thing.

Joe Anuta: No, I think there was a feeling certainly by some people who were in that meeting that there's-- I don't know if micromanaging is the right word. I'm sure a lot of the communications folks, and the policy folks, and even all the way up to deputy mayors and commissioners feel like they're competent enough to have some autonomy here, and here you have City Hall coming in saying kind of like the mayor himself has to approve everything down to the most mundane press release. I think that probably is demoralizing for some people, and I could see why that might prompt someone to leak this, to get this idea out in the world that, "Look, this is how they want to run things going forward."

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Did the mayor actually say something about his office needs to see every press release before it goes out right down to whether the cherry blossoms are in bloom or was somebody just making that point by saying cherry blossoms?

Joe Anuta: I believe it was during a Q&A that a Parks Department employee asked what about advisories for a tree planting, a volunteer event? Very local stuff--

[crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Like do I have to get that cleared by the mayor's office too, like that?

Joe Anuta: Exactly. Adam said yes. He said sometimes he wants to be there, sometimes an event will happen, he said, and he'll get asked-- He does these Q&As every day and there'll be an off-topic question portion, and sometimes someone will ask them, "Well, what about this cherry blossom planting or something?" He won't know the answer. He said, "I need to know all this stuff," because he's exposed that these Q&A. He said, "Yes," he wants to know about the cherry blossoms.

Brian Lehrer: The big policy question Joe, are the cherry blossoms in bloom?

Joe Anuta: Brian, I'll have to consult with our cherry blossom corresponded who's not me. I don't know. [chuckles] I do know you can see lovely blossoms in Prospect Park and in Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, and so.

Brian Lehrer: There you go. Joe Anuta from Politico with some other political reporters who are going to join us along the way as we talk about news from New York City and New York State. I'll just say one more thing about this article. It points out that Adams when he was in the NYPD went on TV without notifying the brass and got Doc 15 vacation days, but I think that was to call out racism on the force as he saw it. There's another question

there of what about if somebody thinks they see injustice, which maybe should have different rules than a policy disagreement about space heaters at outdoor restaurants but we'll just leave that there. Let's move on to Adams versus the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis. Adams on crime. We and everybody have been covering the mayor's attempts to fight the surge of gun violence and other crime in the city that continues since he took office. Here's the mayor on CBS Face The Nation on Sunday, saying what he wants stand for.

Eric Adams: I think that is important for people to say, "Well, let's look at who's implementing the proper use of dealing with quality of life." Eric Adams, I was a leading voice that testified in federal court about the overuse of police tactics of now I'm in charge of that police department and I know how we can run a police department.

Brian Lehrer: That's one clip of the mayor on Face The Nation saying that he no knows how to do this fairly. He also talked about quality of life. I don't know if crime is even the word or violations that he won't stand for. Let's see if we can cue up that clip.

Eric Adams: This is my history of fighting against heavy-handed and abusive policing. You can have the justice that we deserve with the safety we need.

Brian Lehrer: All right. He talked about people jumping turn styles and doing other things in public that really matter, Mayor Adams on Face The Nation. I see that there's a story about a survey of New York City residents divided by race on how to fight crime. That wasn't a Politico story, but do it well enough Joe, to give us some basics? Have you looked at that?

Joe Anuta: From what I recall, Brian, I believe the main difference that I saw a Bloomberg's story about it. They differentiated between the best way to get at crime and some of these quality of life issues and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the divide was between Asian-American respondents and Black and White. The Asian-American respondents to this survey essentially said they wanted more police presence. The other respondents said that they wanted more mental health and housing.

The things that most people think if you got more of that, you could get at the root cause of crime, and really another striking division I saw in that survey was economic, people who have a household income of $35,000 or below also thought more police presence would be useful in reducing crime and these quality of life issues. Then those above [unintelligible 00:13:00] the housing and mental health.

One thing I think that shows is the people who really experience on a visceral level, the crime that's going on in the city because it's not happening everywhere uniformly, they're the ones that I think it's very real for them. They really feel like having a more of a police presence would bring them a little more peace of mind and actually maybe bring down some numbers.

Brian Lehrer: Maybe because much of the crime committed against Asian-Americans falls under the hate crime category. They're more interested as a group and not to generalize about anybody, but this is the survey results finding proportionately group by group in the city that calls for a police presence as they see it.

Joe Anuta: I believe we had a story recently about the increase in hate crimes against Asian- Americans. The numbers are shocking. I believe they quadrupled over the last year. Those are just the ones we know about that were reported classified as hate crimes. I think it's very unnerving for communities across the city.

Brian Lehrer: Probably if there was a follow-up survey that frame things a little differently based on the results of this survey, maybe there would be a big consensus that housing is very important to tamp down the amount of crime that social services people, mental health professionals responding to mental health crises, not just the police as so many Black New Yorkers and White New Yorkers said to this survey. I imagine a lot of Asian-Americans would agree with those things too.

Joe Anuta: I'm thinking back to the campaign, there was a lot of issue pulling going on. People tend to at the end of the day, I think both things are important. I think the Adams team pointed a lot to the concerns about crime and the desire for more police, especially in neighborhoods where these crimes are more common. I do think there was a broad consensus that these other things are very important as well.

I think both are very important if you look at the opinions of New Yorkers. I think you're right that just it's very, very real and visceral. I think that prompts people to look towards the police at a time like this when these crimes are really happening at a very scary intensity.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think that the results of this survey mean anything politically for Adams, any kind of confirmation, any kind of course correction, anything?

Joe Anuta: I think the public issue polling that's come out so far has been pretty good for his agenda. I think for the most part, New Yorkers are super concerned about crime. It's been the top issue in almost every public opinion poll that's come out since he won the election. For his team, you look at those polls and say, "Let's keep on our message." He talks often about prevention and intervention. This was a theme even going back to his campaign, and the intervention would be the police response.

We've seen some big announcements as far as his blueprint and gun violence, his anti-crime unit. I feel like he's been very focused on that portion, the prevention stuff. We haven't seen as much come out of the administration on that, even his budget didn't have some of the promises that he made during the campaign such as doubling the housing capital plan. I think there's more certainly to be done on that front. I would imagine that they're going to get into more of that as the budget process proceeds and over the next couple of months.[

Brian Lehrer: Joe Anuta from Politico, New York is with us and also with us now, Sally Goldenberg, The City Hall Bureau Chief for Politico, New York just out of interviewing the mayor, on a car ride with the mayor from somewhere to somewhere. Terrible day to be in a car anywhere, Sally. Oh, do we have her yet?

All right, we'll get Sally up but in the meantime, let's move on to Adams versus the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis. The city is taking out billboards in Florida reportedly set to go up next Monday, paid by private donors but exhorting people who object to the so-called, Don't Say Gay law for Florida public schools to move here to New York. Here's a little of the mayor and then we'll set up a little of the governor.

Eric Adams: This political showmanship of attempting to demonize a particular group or community is unacceptable. We are going to loudly show our support and say to those who are living in Florida, "Listen, we want you here in New York."

Brian Lehrer: We want you here in New York to which governor DeSantis said this.

Ron DeSantis: We said, you shouldn't have to wear a mask for eight hours a day like they make you in New York City. If you're three years old, they make the toddlers wear masks.

Brian Lehrer: Joe, where did this idea come from to tie the Don't Say Gay law to get people to relocate up north here?

Joe Anuta: It's funny. I think the mayor has been very focused on this idea of a flight from New York to lower-tax states like Florida. During his election, he at one point said days after he took office, he would go personally to Florida and convince some high net worth individuals to move back. As he says frequently, they pay a significant chunk of the taxes that fund all the city services. I think it's just something that's always on his mind. I think he has recently attracted a lot of criticism from the LGBTQ community for some appointments he's made.

They recently had a round table and he has said he went to have an open dialogue with them. I don't think it's coincidental that he's doing this campaign shortly afterwards. You even had one of the chief critics of some of these appointments who basically, there had been lots of stories about this but they had held anti-gay views in the past. Some of them are involved in the clergy and he gave them very high-paying jobs in city hall.

Brian Lehrer: You think he's trying to make amends to some degree with the New York LGBTQ community?

Joe Anuta: He had Allen Roskoff who's head of The Jim Owles Liberal Democratic Club. It's one of the more prominent LGBTQ political clubs in the city was at the press conference. Even Owles said we were very upset by his appointments but we want to work with him on things that we have shared interests on. I think there's an element of that going on here as well.

Brian Lehrer: Now listeners we could take some calls and tweets on Adams and the press coverage he's getting, Adams and message discipline, Adams and DeSantis, the things we've been talking about so far with Joe Anuta from Politico. Anyone in New York listening who doesn't like the climate up here anymore and wants to move South, or anyone in Florida who doesn't like the political climate down there and wants to move North, or anything related 22433 WNYC 212-433-9692.

After the break, we're going to bring in two more Politico reporters Sally Goldenberg who I mentioned, and also Bill Mahoney who's up in Albany covering these what might be the last minutes of the budget negotiations, and he may even have some news for us about what's in and what's out, so stay with us. Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We've been talking with Politicos Joe Anuta who's a City Hall reporter, the City Hall bureau chief Sally Goldenberg joins us now just back from what I understand as a car ride with the mayor in the rain doing an interview with him there on his way to something or other and also Bill Mahoney from Politico who's covering the overtime budget and bail reform negotiations in Albany. Hi Sally. Hi Bill. Welcome back to WNYC.

Bill Mahoney: Hello. Thanks for having me.

Sally Goldenberg: Hi thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Bill let me go to you first because I know you may have to flee any minute if there's breaking news. The budget was due April 1st, today is April 6th, what's the delay?

Bill Mahoney: It seems as a lot of lawmakers have said everything's tied together and so there's not any one thing that you can really blame, but as much as there is something probably the criminal justice reforms that entered the conversation at the last minute, it seems they were on pretty decent track to have at least a timely budget as of a couple of weeks ago and then Governor Hochul introduced basically through a leak to the press a series of her proposals to change New York's recent criminal justice reforms.

That definitely threw conversations to a loop. It seems they got in a good place on that over the past few days, but there's a million other issues that are outstanding that they have to hammer out. There's a lot of signs they might be reaching a deal soon, but there's no official word yet.

Brian Lehrer: The deputy leader of the Senate Michael Gianaris of Queens said last night that there's just about a deal on criminal justice. I saw that soundbite on TV. Do you have any details? Are they rolling back bail reform?

Bill Mahoney: They'll probably roll it back to some degree. It seems they're going to address things increase the ability to hold individuals who have been arrested multiple times, do some action on things like gun control. I'm sure this will not be at as much as any of the critics of the bail reform system have liked.

I am 100% confident that by the end of the week we will see the Republican candidates for governor out there blasting this as being too little too late and saying this does not go nearly as far as even Governor Hochul wanted on areas like giving judges more discretion to hold people. They will be taking some action and I guess the big question will be whether voters wind up thinking this is enough or whether it's too much.

It does seem like even the Democrats who have spent years fighting any significant changes to the laws that they passed in 2019 on bail, they seem mostly okay with this from what I've seen so far. I don't think there'll be too much blowback from the left at least. I guess we'll have to see what winds up happening as the final details emerge.

Brian Lehrer: I would imagine and I think we've seen some of this already in the context over the gubernatorial election year. Hochul will get it from Jumaane Williams who's running against her in the Democratic primary from the left for going too far to roll it back and she'll get it from [unintelligible 00:24:45] Elvin or whoever the Republican nominee for governor turns out to be for not going far enough to roll it back.

Bill Mahoney: I don't think there's really any way out of that bind. It seems like what they are doing is they are doing some changes which like I said, these probably will won't anger the left too much in the end. They will no be nowhere near good enough for the right, but I don't know if they could have done anything that would've been good enough for Lee Zeldin to avoid making crime his number one talking point this year. He chose a NYPD, a top NYPD officer for his running mate this year which is a pretty good signal that he's all in on making crime the only issue that is going to focus on in any depth down the home stretch.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners we'll get to your calls in a second here. It looks like folks people are really taking me up on that invitation to call if you're in New York and thinking about moving to Florida for the climate, or if you're in Florida and thinking about moving back to New York for the political climate. We'll get to your calls in just a second. Let me just get through one more thing with Bill Mahoney in Albany.

I mentioned in the intro to this segment that there's so much else waiting that are actual budget items until they settle the bail reform negotiations, affordable housing programs, childcare, I know the thing the legislators have been most anxious to talk about when they've come on this show in recent weeks is a universal childcare system for the really little kids that they're trying to launch fair pay for home healthcare workers as another, and there are other ones. Anything else you can tell us about what's emerging or just not really until they come out of that backroom?

Bill Mahoney: I'm always hesitant to say too much about the details until the bills are printed because any given point they can come out there and say, "We have an agreement on this," but until you see the actual bill language there's always a chance that the leaders will take it back to their members and enough of them will be unhappy and everything will fall apart and you're back to the drawing board.

Many of the things that you mentioned do seem to be on the table. There has been a push for big funding increases for [unintelligible 00:26:56] There's also the money for the Buffalo bill stadium that's in the mix. There definitely are a lot of nonfinancial things that are part of the conversation.

It does seem very likely at this point that things like the legalization of alcohol to go from restaurants for at least a few years. That will probably be looped into the budget. It seems there's almost certainly an agreement on reforming [unintelligible 00:27:17] ethics enforcement committee that will be overhauled and replaced with a new ethics enforcement entity. It seems very likely at this point, that all three sides are in agreement on that.

Brian Lehrer: Bill Mahoney in Albany for Politico. I'm going to let you go and be ready for whenever those negotiators come out of that room. Is this one of those rare days, Bill, where it's actually a nicer day in Albany than it is in New York?

Bill Mahoney: The sad thing about the Capitol, it's one of the most beautiful buildings in the state but there's not really a lot of windows so when you're in there you often have no idea that it's been snowing out for six hours or what so I'm not going to speak too confidently on what the weather is like.

Brian Lehrer: Often a good thing in Albany where I lived for eight years, but maybe if it's nice out in the spring you wish there were a few more windows in the Capitol. Bill thanks a lot, I appreciate it.

Bill Mahoney: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Here's this tweet from a listener that says, "Today marks my last day as a New York City resident. I bought a beautiful home in Southwest Florida for less than the cost of a studio Co-op in Bay Ridge. Taxes on the property are less than 1/8 of the city. Job will make same as New York City without three times the tax." Posts listener Kristin, goodbye Kristin. Good luck down there. You can listen on the web. Hi, on the other hand? Francesca in Queens you're on WNYC. Hi Francesca. Thank you for calling in.

Francesca: Good morning. I am from up North and I lived in Miami for several years and I had to leave. I couldn't take it. I hate the weather up here. I hate it in every winter. I say why did I leave but my friends always remind me, "No don't go back. Don't go back." There's so many things. There is the politics are appalling. The fraud down there is unbelievable between the people in charge and the people who are just doing day to day things. There is a lack of civic concern and whenever I try to recycle literally people will say to me, "Oh, are you from New York?" Because I'm looking for a recycling bin because people just aren't concerned. I was listening to the tweet and it's true that there is no-- it's cheaper and there's no taxes. It's getting more expensive down there but they find other ways to take your money instead of through taxes and the lack of social services because of the lack of tax base. It's like the wild west and there is, you

know, people fall through the cracks, and then there are all these people who have fallen through the cracks, running around, making mayhem, and it's inevitable.

There are guns everywhere. My neighbor had a gun in his Fanny pack walking around and it was a little alarming. Most or so many people you wouldn't guess are packing, are carrying a gun. It makes every interaction a little more dangerous than you thought it might be, and much more than it would be up here. I'm watching what's going on in Miami Beach right now from the neighborhood groups that I'm still on and it's going to pieces, and the water level is rising. I watched it happen while I was living there, the sunny day flooding--

Brian Lehrer: Yes, the sea level.

Francesca: The water coming further and further up the street, especially during [unintelligible 00:30:48] tides, just all the way up the street.

Brian Lehrer: Miami is such a vulnerable city to the sea level rise from climate change. The mayor of Miami, as I understand it is very interested in that issue. The governor of Florida, as I understand it, dismisses it, but Francesca, thank you for that report from Queens as somebody who moved back there after living in Miami for a while, liking the climate down there, but the political climate here, and then there's vice versa. I think from Maria in Spanish Harlem. Maria, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Maria: Hi. Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you.

Maria: Oh, great. I'm calling because I think the main issue, we need to address is the saving of the future. This mayor doesn't seem to realize or listen to any research first about the masks and small children wearing them. The problem with that is that it's not healthy number one, and that's proven. Also, it's going to make this whole generation of these young children not able to function psychologically well, that's been proven. He's not looking at the harm it's doing. In terms of the don't say--

Brian Lehrer: That hasn't been proven, but some people say that, but Maria, go ahead. I'm just hesitant to say that's been proven when it hasn't been proven scientifically but go ahead.

Maria: Yes. Okay. I see what's happening. We have these two things going on, but then don't say gay bill, it's to save our children from being sexualized at a young age. If people know what's going on in these schools where children should be sent to school to learn, they don't need to be dealing with what sex they are in kindergarten. This is ridiculous.

Those of us that know that this is wrong, this is wrong. I don't understand. I live in the worst area for crime up here. I don't see this police force he's talking about. Another thing is, there's no police because I sat in on a police thing and they're looking for volunteers. DeSantis paid the guys with the smart minds to leave and they left.

Yes. Florida might be sitting in water, but every time I watch that governor, he is always doing what he's saying. This governor is just saying stuff and now he wants to be like a dictator. Okay. I'm dealing with something in my housing where there's corruption, I'm dealing-- Corruption is here too. In fact, the whole country is corrupt, but we need to save the children.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. Maria just one thing on the don't say gay law and we did a whole segment on that the other day so we're not going to get too deeply into it, but when you say kids shouldn't be talking about what sex they are. From the time you're in preschool or kindergarten, it might be boys line-up over here, girls line-up over there.

There's a lot of gender education, gender indoctrination, if you want to call it that, that goes on that gets accepted as normal. If kids are talking about their families and somebody is a child of a gay couple or a lesbian couple, they can't say that apparently in Ron DeSantis' second-grade classes. Is that okay?

Maria: Listen, you're twisting the whole thing because you know what? They're changing with an agenda, a whole society of children who now believe that they can be one thing one minute and something else the other minute. This is no way to even be driving this. We haven't been driving this in the past this many years, while all of a sudden, we got this new agenda?

It's obvious to me, somebody has an agenda that's screwing up the kids. When I hear kids who want to be dinosaurs one minute, they want to be this. They want to be that. When I hear young people, even older saying, "Well, today I'm going to be a girl and tomorrow--" No, this is messing with the minds of children.

Brian Lehrer: Right. I'm going to leave it there, Maria but I will say that I think the people who you call activists see it a very different way. They're being open to what children's identities actually are and not squelching what children feel because there's only one acceptable way based on somebody's religious views or something else, but that obviously is a conversation that's deeper than our exchange. We're going to take one more, John in Fort Lauderdale you're on WNYC. Hi John.

John: Hey, good morning. I just wanted to call in, I'm still a New York resident. I've been there for 14 years. I live in Brooklyn, but due to the pandemic, I'm also gay. You can probably tell by the sound of my voice. I moved down here for the winters. I'm fortunate enough to work remote. I've been down here for two years, just in the winters, and then back up in New York. It's horrifying to be in this date politically.

I laughed when the other callers said, it's like The Wild Wild West. I always say anything goes in Florida. I live in a little bubble here in Fort Lauderdale, but yes, it's embarrassing identifying as a gay man and with being in 2022 and being in a state where don't say gay is actively being pursued.

I feel-- I don't know. I equate it to like, if I were a woman in a state that where there's no abortion access or right. Yes, it's just scary to me and I definitely identify way more with the culture in the north, but I have to say, I just came down here for the weather and I love that. I know that's a privilege, but yes, other than that, I don't really think Florida is a great place to be, to be honest.

Brian Lehrer: John, thank you very much. All right. Obviously, with the couple of listeners, I cited either on Twitter or talked to on the phones feeling one way about Florida and a few more feeling another about Florida, and how they feel about New York also contrasting game on. Sally Goldenberg, City Hall bureau chief for Politico New York. How much does Eric Adams want to play this game?

Sally Goldenberg: The mayor has definitely from even before he took office, said he wants New Yorkers to come back [unintelligible 00:37:27] economic argument. I think for him mostly since that New York City needs to return to some sense of pre-pandemic normalcy and so see him using any opportunity.

Right now it's the don't say gay billboards that he's doing [unintelligible 00:37:48] to New Yorkers who might feel ostracized in Florida because of the political climate and the governor's view on gender and sexuality to come back, but I think the overall point in all of this is that he wants people and their tax dollars back in New York City.

Brian Lehrer: How much has been documented that we have lost a lot of residents and tax dollars to Florida?

Sally Goldenberg: It seems hard to calculate because people, as I understand it, a lot of times a person might leave, but the job stays. If you are working on Wall Street or in some technology job or startup and you [unintelligible 00:38:36] in the pandemic, but the existence of your job stays in New York, you're physically in a condo in Miami or in the Hudson Valley or whatever, there's not going to be any tracking of that. I think we haven't really fully been able to calculate the measure of it. It's only when a company actually moved the headquarters and then the income taxes [unintelligible 00:39:03] New York that you would see that.

Brian Lehrer: Sally, thanks for coming on. I know you're on the go. You had to join later than originally scheduled because you were with the mayor which happened at the last minute. We also have a terrible cell phone connection, so I'm going to let you go, but thanks very much for jumping on and for the reporting that we've been basing a lot of this segment on. We will finish up with Sally's colleague Joe Anuta City hall reporter for Politico. Joe are we waiting for the budget from Albany for any particular things that the mayor is most focused on, that he sees as most affecting the city of New York?

Joe Anuta: Yes, I think generally you can break mayoral budget negotiations into two categories and one would be like fiscal, so

I think as opposed to years passed under Huchol's predecessor, the city really isn't facing any existential financial threats from the state. It's a pretty kind budget to the city. There's not any money being taken away or withheld that then the mayor has to go up and negotiate back in. I think from that standpoint, the Adams administration is sitting pretty well.

There was even the, state had been planning to skim some of our sales tax off to fund distressed hospitals around the state and even that seems to be on the way out. On the policy side, he's had a much harder time. He and the governor had both pushed for four years of mayoral control of local schools, which is just mayors have to go up there and beg for this all the time.

They were going to make it he didn't have to do it for his whole first term, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen. A tax break that is very controversial, but is related to rental development, and is a kind of necessary ingredient to getting some of these buildings built is up in the air. It's going to be done after the budget.

I do think the mayor did pretty well with criminal justice changes to specifically the bail laws and raised the age bill, which raises the age of criminal culpability and he's not getting everything he wants, but I think, as Bill my colleague discussed earlier, there are a lot of changes that he asked for that are being discussed as a compromise. I think he will probably count those as a win once this thing sealed up, and then probably go after the few remaining changes he wants to those laws.

Brian Lehrer: Is there, to go back to one of the things you said any realistic chance that the state legislature will not re-up mayoral control of the schools in New York City that that would revert to a system that was in effect, only until Michael Bloomberg was mayor and he got a change to mayoral control, but a decentralized system that would go back to the 32 neighborhood school districts having more independent control of a school policy, they're not going to actually do that, are they?

Joe Anuta: No, I don't think so but I do think it's advantageous for the legislature to hold this bargaining chip in their pocket as long as they can. The mayor has really been hammering their bail reform laws. I believe were passed 2019, is that right? He's made that his own his number one Albany issue since as soon as he was elected. For them having a sort of bargaining chip, and something to hold over him is very, as I said, politically advantageous for them. It's not surprising.

They want to hold on to it for a little longer, but are they actually going to let it expire? I don't think that's realistic but are they going to give him four years so he doesn't have to come back to them ever again. I also think that's probably unrealistic, despite the governor wanting that as well.

Brian Lehrer: We could get into a whole conversation about home rule and whether it should be up to Albany, that is the state legislators from Oneonta and Erie County and the Adirondacks who runs the school system in New York City or any locality in the state but that's the way things roll under New York law and there we leave it with Joe Anuta, City Hall reporter for Politico in New York. Joe, thanks for giving us much time this morning. We really appreciate it.

Joe Anuta: Thanks for having me, Brian.

 

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