New York's (and America's) First Offshore Wind Farm
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Brian Lehrer: It's the The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Now our climate story of the week, which we do every Tuesday on the show; after a very turbulent year, Long Island has become home to America's first large-scale offshore wind project. On Thursday, the South Fork Wind project was completed, 12 turbines about 30 miles off Montauk that have the ability to power 70,000 homes. Here's Governor Kathy Hochul making the announcement last week.
Governor Kathy Hochul: Today we're making an incredible milestone of progress for New York. The completion of the very first of its kind, not just for New York, not just for the Northeast, but for all of America.
Brian Lehrer: Joining us now to discuss, Marie French, who covers energy and the environment for POLITICO New York. Hey, Marie. Welcome back to WNYC. Do we have Marie?
Marie J. French: Can you hear me?
Brian Lehrer: Now we can hear you. Hi there. Marie French from POLITICO New York is with us. Listeners, especially if you're out in the Montauk area, anyone want to weigh in on your thoughts? 212-433-WNYC. Or anyone else on this first major wind project in the United States? 212-433-9692. From anywhere along the water on Long Island or Jersey Shore or anywhere else, because we're going to talk about other things that are in the works and the politics of these. 212-433-9692, call or text.
Marie, 30 miles off of Montauk, is that out east off of the East Point of Long Island? Is that south of Montauk? Where is it, to give our listeners a visual sense?
Marie J. French: Yes, so the South Fork project, I believe it's sort of northeast off the tip of Long Island. It's certainly an important step for New York's offshore wind industry.
Brian Lehrer: Yes, and so right away, one of the critiques of any wind project tends to be that the turbines are an eyesore. We have these 12 turbines about 30 miles off of Montauk. Are they visible from the shore? Are they visible from any beach?
Marie J. French: I don't believe there's been concerns about visual impacts to Long Island itself, but there is actually a lawsuit filed by some of the Newport area residents or groups about the visual [crosstalk]--
Brian Lehrer: Rhode Island?
Marie J. French: Yes. Newport, the mansions. It's the impact on the historic viewshed there, there's actually a lawsuit over that because they will be somewhat visible from there.
Brian Lehrer: The South Fork project, as it's called, overcame several legal challenges already, right?
Marie J. French: Yes. South Fork was the first one to move forward in New York in a real way. There was definitely majorly well-funded opposition in the East Hampton area. You had a group of the Citizens to Preserve Wainscott, I think, perhaps was the name. It was people with ties to McKinsey, Blackstone, some pretty deep-pocketed individuals backing that group that did an advertising blitz, hired a really well-connected PR firm and took some other steps to pushback against it. Ultimately, the town approved the project and the transmission line moved forward.
Brian Lehrer: Did East Hampton-- which of course is west of Montauk, and doesn't sound like those wind turbines would be visible from East Hampton, per se. Why was that the locus of lawsuits?
Marie J. French: Because the transmission cable to land the power from the offshore wind project went through. It ran along a local beach access road, so the disruption there. I think it's literally called Beach Lane. The impact of construction there raised some concerns from some residents and businesses in terms of potential impacts on tourism in the summer and that kind of thing.
Brian Lehrer: This is a historic win for the wind power industry. You write, "The offshore wind portfolios of Northeast states, which underpin President Joe Biden's climate goals and his targets for the industry, have suffered several cancellations." Give us the context of that. What are some of the bigger cancellations and what stalled their progress?
Marie J. French: Yes. States up and down the Coast here have seen major projects canceled. New York obviously has seen two early ones be canceled, two others have sort of been revived. New Jersey saw some major cancellations by Ørsted, who's also played a role in the South Fork project. Nationally, just Rhode Island and Connecticut have also had some issues with their projects and procurements. It's really a major threat to Biden's goal of having 30 gigawatts of offshore wind complete by 2030. I don't think many people would say, given where we're at now, that that's a likely target for us to hit.
Brian Lehrer: Yes. Yet, despite all the legal wrangling, I see the actual building of the project off Montauk didn't take too long. You write, "The first foundations for the project were placed in June last year, and the 800-foot-tall turbines started to be installed in November." We've heard about so many of these projects toiling away for years in the courts, but is the process of building usually as fast as that?
Marie J. French: This is a smaller project in terms of the number of turbines. It's only 12 turbines total. That gives you an idea that while this one maybe only took several months to get completed, the larger projects, if you're talking 62 turbines or more than that for some of these projects even, it could take a little longer. A lot of the timeline for these projects is the permitting, the approvals, getting their slot in the supply chain to get those turbines and blades and everything all lined up. Then the installation, it is challenging. They told some anecdotes about some weather issues. To get the turbines out to sea and install them, it can be somewhat difficult, but the construction itself maybe doesn't take as long as the permitting.
Brian Lehrer: Do we know how much this cost taxpayers? I said in the intro that 70,000 homes will benefit. Is that in certain communities, and who's paying for this, how, or getting subsidized for this how?
Marie J. French: The South Fork deal was first approved by the Long Island Power Authority in 2017. The Long Island Power Authority is unique in New York in that they directly contract for a lot of their energy. Long Island ratepayers are paying about $1.35 per month on their bills to support this project. It was selected through an RFP for addressing the growing energy demand in that part of Long Island.
Brian Lehrer: We have a caller who has a question about that 70,000 homes number. Let's take Tony in Egg Harbor, Wisconsin. You're on WNYC with Marie J. French, who covers energy and the environment for POLITICO New York. Hi, Tony.
Tony: Good morning, Brian. Thanks for taking my call. I listen to you every day from beautiful Door County, Wisconsin.
Brian Lehrer: So good to hear it.
Tony: The 70,000 household number is a great number, but I'm always interested in, is that net or gross, and does that take into consideration losses of transmission?
Brian Lehrer: Is the question clear to you, Marie?
Marie J. French: I think I know what you're trying to get at. The 70,000 number is just a calculation based on the megawatts that the project can produce, multiplied by the capacity factor, and then based on the average household usage. That's just a calculation that people do to represent how much energy this will supply to the grid. Yes, in terms of transmission congestion issues or whether the cost of transmission is factored into that, the cost of the line itself to connect it to the grid is factored in. I think Long Island really expects to use that energy on Long Island to some degree, but of course, New York's grid is well interconnected between Long Island, New York City and the neighboring areas.
Brian Lehrer: Tony, thanks a lot, and call us again from Wisconsin; could be that your state is where the presidential election gets decided this November, from what I've been reading. Tony, thanks a lot. I guess the 70,000 homes that would benefit; it's not like there are 70,000 homes on Long Island that will now know that their energy is coming from the wind turbines. It's more like the wind turbines feed the overall grid, and then about 70,000 homes' worth wind up coming from the power they produce. Correct?
Marie J. French: Absolutely right, Brian.
Brian Lehrer: Harold in Manhattan, who lives some of the year on Fire Island, you're on WNYC. Hi, Harold.
Harold: Hi, good morning, Brian. Thank you. To your guest, I support your wind project. We have seen such a tremendous increase in wildlife off the shore on Fire Island; whales, dolphins, every season, tremendous fish schools. It's so vibrant coming down. Probably the climate of the ocean is changing. How have you taken into account with your project the tremendous wildlife that we have on Long Island in our oceans? Thank you.
Brian Lehrer: Thank you.
Marie J. French: Thanks. Yes, just to be clear, I am not associated with the South Fork Wind project. I am a journalist that covers [chuckles] this industry.
Brian Lehrer: Right. He did say your wind project, yes.
Marie J. French: [chuckles] Yes. No affiliation. The impact on wildlife of these projects, obviously, is a major concern. As more and more of these turbines get built and installed, I think there's environmental reviews underway, both in the terms of these individual projects are all undergoing reviews, and BOEM, which is the federal agency that oversees this, is also starting to consider, especially in the New York Bight area, the full portfolio of these projects and the cumulative potential impacts.
Brian Lehrer: From Harold in Manhattan from Fire Island, and Tony in Wisconsin, we go to Peter in St. Petersburg, Florida. You're on WNYC. Hi, Peter.
Peter: Before you mentioned the animals, because I do have a heart for the animals; before, I was going to say, why not call them big pinwheels to make the big babies satisfied? [crosstalk]--
Brian Lehrer: Windmills, right? You told our screener, windmills. Which I'll let you finish your point, Peter, but it's actually a good question. We say wind turbines; a lot of people don't know what some of this terminology means. Why don't we call them windmills, which might be a little more benign-sounding to people?
Marie J. French: Is that a question for me?
Brian Lehrer: To you you, Marie, yes.
Marie J. French: I don't know. I think windmill, to me that harkens back to tilting at windmills or is sort of a more bucolic image, where these are truly industrial-scale installations. Yes, perhaps that's a rebranding they need to work on. I don't particularly like the term wind farm or solar farm, personally.
Brian Lehrer: How come?
Marie J. French: Because it's more accurate to describe them as projects [crosstalk]--
Brian Lehrer: These machines that they are.
Marie J. French: Yes, they're not a farm, right?
Brian Lehrer: Yes, in the case of the turbines.
Marie J. French: You're not growing green things.
Brian Lehrer: All right. Peter, okay, pinwheels. Why not? What's the other point that you wanted to make?
Peter: Me?
Brian Lehrer: You.
Peter: Yes, I'm concerned about-- I'm glad you're addressing the-- Because they were talking about, especially in New Jersey, are the vibrations causing whales to beach themselves? That has been considered a canard by now, or is that still something that's being used as a-- what's the word I'm looking for? You know what I'm saying?
Brian Lehrer: Yes. As an excuse for the fossil fuel industry to oppose the windmills is the way I'd put it, Marie. Yes?
Marie J. French: Yes. I think largely, that's been a political talking point that's been taken up by some folks in New Jersey and in New York a little bit, but there's been no real scientific evidence that any of those deaths of those whales were tied to the offshore wind industry.
Brian Lehrer: We're talking about one wind project off the coast of Montauk at the extreme East End of Long Island, where very few people actually live, and we're getting calls from Wisconsin, from Florida, and now Darren in Longmont, Colorado. You're on WNYC. Hi, Darren.
Darren: Hey, Brian. Love your show, always listen. Yes, I grew up out there. My family has had a property in Amagansett right near the beach. Lots of people complaining in the neighborhood, [chuckles] especially during the summer, but I have not seen them yet. I don't think we can even get close to seeing them from the south side of Long Island. The complaints just seem to-- I'm in full support. I love it. That's really what I wanted to say, is that I'm really glad this happened and I'm shocked that's it the first one. [chuckles]
Brian Lehrer: Thank you, Darren. Thank you very much. Yes, and I think we've put the 'can you see them' question to rest. A number of people are texting us actually with the basic science. "A six-foot-tall person," writes one, "standing on the shoreline can only see three miles out, so nobody's going to see the 30-mile-away wind turbines. The objections are really about other things."
Well, let's finish our Coast to Coast tour with Mook in Santa Barbara. You're on WNYC. Hi, Mook.
Mook: Hi, Brian. Happy to complete this call, nationwide call about this project. I just want to ask you about the economics of the project, and if the transmission lines could be used by future projects to lower the cost of future projects. While I'm here, just one quick shout-out, Brian, my friend and a great fan of the show. His name is Steve Kohler. He just got his PhD yesterday from the University of Miami. He works in Environmental Policy. I just want to give him a quick shout-out, but thanks again.
Brian Lehrer: Go Steve. Go 'Canes. Mook, thank you very much. Yes, Marie, answer this question and then we're out of time.
Marie J. French: Yes. The economics of South Fork, it's a contract with LIPA that covers the energy and the capacity and the environmental benefits here. The idea of the transmission line for one of these projects serving future projects, I think is a little out of reach, just because of the way they were contracted and financed and the size of the line itself, because this is a smaller project.
For future offshore wind projects that are contracted, New York is looking to start that process of having them be ready for this idea of a meshed offshore grid, where these projects up and down the Coast could potentially be connected, and you could use whichever transmission lines are working or are most needed at any given time to bring it into the East Coast grid at different phases.
Brian Lehrer: Yes. I said that was going to be the last question, but I have a clip now of US Secretary of the Interior, Deb Haaland, who was at the event on Long Island to help announce the completion. We're going to hear just a few seconds of Secretary Haaland on national implications.
Secretary Deb Haaland: We're so thrilled to have the state of New York as a partner in that work. By joining with us to establish this most ambitious offshore wind goals in the nation, you are helping to create the current excitement in the market that we see today.
Brian Lehrer: With all the opposition to wind turbines around the country and this first one actually, finally- this first large-scale project actually finally getting launched off Montauk, does it establish any precedent for national progress on the issue that the Biden administration is hoping for?
Marie J. French: I think it's some much-needed good news of progress forward in this industry after a lot of bad news about projects being canceled and facing increasingly difficult economics. It certainly establishes the precedent that the United States can build these projects.
Brian Lehrer: Marie J. French, who covers energy and environment for POLITICO New York, and that's our climate story of the week. Marie, thanks so much.
Marie J. French: Thank you, Brian. Really appreciate it.
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