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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Happy Friday. We'll have Mayor Adams on the show today. He'll be on in the second hour this morning. We'll have historian Anne Applebaum with a deeply thought-out piece in the Atlantic on how to save not just Ukraine she says, but the liberal world order. We'll see what she means by that. We'll talk about New Jersey's coming plastic bag ban and what New Jersey can learn from New York, which already has one.

We'll start right now with details from the New York State budget agreement. You know we've been waiting for this all week. Governor Hochul announced it last night. Everybody's now reading the fine print. There are definitely headlines here regarding bail reform, child care and elder care and pay for health care workers, the climate, a gasoline tax holiday starting in June, we'll tell you details of that.

Did she give up the subsidy for the Buffalo Bills football stadium, which we had a caller uprising against yesterday? Did they include casinos for New York City and more? With us to break it down and go point by point through a checklist WNYC Albany correspondent, Jon Campbell. Hi, Jon. Are your eyes glazing over from reading all night?

Jon Campbell: Well, reading what we can so far. We still only have about half of the budget bills at this point, but this is how they do it in Albany every year. It's never more transparent and never-- it's not a ton of fun to get through, but we're getting there. We're almost there.

Brian Lehrer: All right. We'll see how much detail we can get out accurately and what you have to say we actually still don't know yet about. Your article on Gothamist is Five Things to Know About Hochul's Budget Deal Announcement. Let's take those five things first. Number one, changes to criminal justice reform including bail. Here's a 30 second clip of the governor on that.

Governor Hochul: We are moving forward with a thoughtful approach. We'll be protecting victims of domestic violence and hate crimes. We'll close loopholes in the discovery law that led to the unnecessary dismissal of too many cases. We're going to allow police to make arrests for hate crimes. We are now for the first time going to allow judges to set bail for gun charges that were previously subject only to release. Also adding factors that a judge must consider. As I mentioned, closing some problematic loopholes on race, the age and discovery. Making Kendra's Law more effective, all in the interests of making a safer and more just New York.

Brian Lehrer: All right, 30 seconds of the governor with her own checklist there that will go point by point through within it. John, the governor has obviously not been getting much sleep either. She almost said there we will clues loapholes, but she did say ultimately that we will close loopholes. Can we start with the end of that clip? She said making Kendra's Law more effective. Would you remind people what Kendra's Law is and why there was pressure to change it?

Jon Campbell: Yes, absolutely. Kendra's Law is essentially-- it's a law that allows courts to assign assisted outpatient treatment to people with mental illness who could be a harm to themselves or others. There's been a lot of controversy over that law over the years. There's been some signs that it's shown some level of progress on the mental illness front, but it's also-- mental health advocates, they have an issue with the idea of making treatment a punishment essentially or issuing it through the court system, so it feels like a punishment.

That law is coming up for renewal. Lawmakers and the governor seem to be in an agreement on a five-year extension. The governor also wanted to expand that to allow for a court to be able to order a second round of treatment basically after the person completes the first round, if there's some substantial increase in mental illness symptoms, anything like that. That's something that--

Brian Lehrer: In other words, if the person is still considered a potential danger to themselves or others to keep them involuntarily hospitalized for longer.

Jon Campbell: That's essentially the case. They call it assisted outpatient treatment, but yes, that's essentially it. That's something that mental health advocates really, really pushed back on in the final days of these negotiations. It's something that was holding up an agreement in the last couple of days. Also it's something that we don't have the language on yet. We know what the governor proposed. We believe it's pretty close to looking like that, but we don't have that bill language yet. We're anticipating it sometime today. The language really makes all the difference.

Brian Lehrer: From that clip on bail reform itself. She said, "We are now for the first time going to allow judges to set bail for gun crimes that were previously subject only to release while also adding factors that a judge must consider." Take a minute and tell us what's in and what's out of changes to bail reform. It looks like they didn't go as far as Mayor Adams and some others wanted to allow judges to have the discretion to keep people accused of crimes locked up just based on the judges perception of their dangerousness.

Jon Campbell: That was the first point in Governor Hochul's 10-point public safety plan that she dropped on lawmakers two weeks before the budget was due. It was the most controversial. It was the one that progressives pushed back the most on. Again, major caveat, we still don't have the bill language for how this would do it. We're only going off of what the governor said yesterday. The gun crimes, they're going to make it easier to convict or easier to charge for gun trafficking.

They're going to lower the number of guns that you need to sell to qualify for a gun trafficking charge. They're going to add some crimes like criminal possession of a firearm on school grounds and cases where somebody had to register their semi-automatic weapon under the SAFE Act, they failed to do it. Those are going to be made bail eligible. There's some gray area that we're not totally sure is that idea of dangerousness, exactly what is going to be in there.

Under the current law, judges do have some ability to consider criminal history and use of a firearm when setting bail, but they also have to follow the "Least restrictive standard" to ensure somebody is back in court for their court dates. Hochul wanted to change that. We're not quite sure exactly what the final language is going to be on that. The governor suggested that there will be something of that sort in the budget, but until we have that language, we're not sure.

The other thing is repeat arrestees. Somebody who is arrested, let go on a ticket and then they're arrested again. She wants to make it easier to set bail in those cases. Under current law, you can do it if somebody is charged with a felony or a Class A Misdemeanor. They want to change that to make clear that-- you also have to have committed some sort of personal harm to someone or property. They want to change that to make sure that theft is included in that as well, which some judges had been including and some judges hadn't.

Brian Lehrer: It's funny when you talk about those things and you say, "These new changes will make them bail eligible." That might sound to the casual listener like, "Oh, well, people will be able to get out on those things now, as they await trial, because they'll be able to post bail." What you really mean is they will be required to post bail and since some people won't be able to afford it, they will stay locked up. That doesn't solve the problem of making bail release available to people with money and not available to people without money for the same crimes.

Jon Campbell: Yes. That's exactly why progressives are angry about this. That's exactly why in 2019 they pushed to pass these bail reforms that made it so that crimes that are nonviolent felonies and misdemeanors, they are subject to release. The idea is you don't want to criminalize poverty, that two people can commit the same crime or be accused of committing the same crime, they haven't been convicted yet, and the person who has means can get out, and the person who doesn't have means, somebody like Kalief Browder, stays in prison while they haven't even been convicted yet.

That is why progressives are so mad about this. The net effect is more people will be in jails before their trial because they can't afford bail. That's something that doesn't sit well with them.

Brian Lehrer: Kalief Browder who, of course, famously spent a lot of time on Rikers Island just for allegedly stealing a backpack which he said he was innocent of and he eventually took his own life. One more from that soundbite from the governor. She said, "We're going to allow police to make arrests for hate crimes." They can't arrest people for hate crimes now.

Jon Campbell: Yes, she didn't quite explain that one correctly. The idea is to make it more clear in the law that if you are convicted-- I'm sorry, if you are accused of a hate crime, if you're charged with a hate crime, that your crime is bail eligible. Now, public defenders will push back against that and say, "Listen,

they already are," but this is one of those items of many in the bail laws where people have a lot of different interpretations. Judges are interpreting them in different ways. This would be a way to say, "Listen, if you are charged with a hate crime, then your offense is eligible for bail."

Brian Lehrer: Listeners. We can take your questions or comments about this 220 billion budget, which seems like it includes about 220 billion things. (212) 433-WNYC, (212) 433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer, for Albany reporter, John Campbell, whose article out on Gothamist, has a list of five things to know about the budget. We're going to do more than five, but number one was what we've been talking about, the criminal justice reforms. Your number two, John is Gas Tax Holiday through December 31st. What gas tax, how much, when to when?

Jon Campbell: Yes, so basically New New York State has a few different gas taxes, but really what our listeners need to know, they add up to about 33 cents a gallon. This would relax two of those taxes, which add up to 16 cents a gallon from June 1st through the end of the year. There's some language that says that retailers have to pass those savings on to customers that you can't just Jack up your price 16 cents to make up the difference and then keep the profit.

There was some concern about this for a couple different reasons. One, these gas taxes go to fund things like the highway and bridge fund and infrastructure repairs, pothole repair, things like that as well as a piece of it goes toward the MTA. What they ended up doing is they're relaxing these gas prices by-- or these gas taxes by 16 cents from June 1st through the end of the year.

Then the state is going to reimburse the MTA and reimburse the highway and bridge fund to make them whole, essentially. There's been some pushback against this because it's not a progressive benefit. The people who can afford to drive more are the ones who are going to benefit more from this. Some people were pushing maybe for a rebate check. Some people were pushing maybe for a mass transit credit or something like that, but where they landed at was 16 cents off June 1st through the end of the year.

Brian Lehrer: Also, if it's just 16 cents a gallon, maybe this is too dismissive a way to look at it. If gas is 5.50 a gallon and it goes down to 5.34 because of a 16 cent, a gallon gas tax suspension, I don't know that that changes the economic life of any normal middle-class person who for whatever reason has to drive to and from work or to and from whatever while it defunds those highway and other transportation programs that you were talking about.

Jon Campbell: Well, and also if you're making those programs whole, taxpayers are paying from a different pocket, essentially. The idea is that they're trying to show that they're doing something. It's politically beneficial to the governor, to lawmakers. They get to say, "Hey, look, we're cutting your gas prices. We're giving you relief at the pump."

They're saying it's going to be about 585 million total over that seven-month period, which sounds like a lot of money, but think of how many drivers there are in the state and divide it up by that. It doesn't end up being all of that much, but it does signal, "Hey, we know gas prices are going up and we're trying to do something about it."

Brian Lehrer: Number three, on your list, three years of to go drinks, what did they pass?

Jon Campbell: If you recall, at the beginning of the pandemic, there was this 15 month period where you could walk into a restaurant and order a cocktail to go, an old fashion to go, a mojito to go, whatever you could buy at the bar, you could take it with you. That ended when then-Governor Cuomo's emergency powers ended during the pandemic.

There was this push to make it permanent restaurants. They loved it, their customers loved it. They wanted to make it permanent. There was this push, it failed last year. Governor Hochul took up that mantle and really, really pushed. This was really one of her priorities in this budget of the thousands of things in this budget, she really, really made this, her own.

Lawmakers had some concerns. Liquor stores certainly had some concerns. They didn't want restaurants to be able to, for example, sell full bottles. They were worried that they were kind of encroaching on their turf, where they ended up was a three-year extension effective as soon as the budget's signed, but you have to buy a "substantial food item" in order to get a to go beverage. Now, we're going to argue about what's a substantial food item.[

Brian Lehrer: Your item number four, uh-oh, taxpayers to largely fund new Buffalo Bills Stadium. I mentioned at the top, we had a caller uprising on this. We had a general segment on how is Hochul doing yesterday and half the calls we got were-- I realized it's a completely unscientific sample, but half the calls we got without knowing that the others had called in because all these came in before we took anybody on the air, half the cost we got were people objecting to this subsidy that the Governor wanted for the Buffalo Bill Stadium because we could use all that money for other things that are so important childcare, pay for home, healthcare workers, whatever what's in?

Jon Campbell: Yes. Listen, this is one that has people fired up, particularly outside of the Buffalo area, but even within the Buffalo area, there's some pushback against the idea of using public taxpayer money to fund an NFL Stadium for the Pegula family that owns the Buffalo Bill, that they are literal billionaires. I feel like I have to full disclosure here. I was raised in the Buffalo area. I am a Buffalo Bills fan, but this is a lot of money. This would be the largest public subsidy for an NFL stadium in history.

Now, with inflation, the next stadium deal will be the next record amount. Of course, I mean on some level that makes sense, but it's 600 million in state funding. It's 250 million in Erie County funding. The governor says it will be part of this budget deal. We have not yet seen the language. A large portion of it is going to be funded by this settlement with the Seneca nation, which is a native American tribe in Western New York that operates casinos in Western New York.

They share a portion of that revenue with the state. They were withholding a few hundred million dollars of that because there's been this dispute over their exclusivity that they're supposed to have in Western New York. They long ago have said that the state encroached on it with racetrack casinos and any number of things. The state actually--the Seneca nation says the state went in and froze their bank accounts to get them to release that money.

The Seneca nation is very mad about it. Taxpayers, as you heard on your show, many of them are mad about it, but it's going to be tucked into this budget. The way the budget works, if you vote down that, you have to vote down any number of things. It's likely to get approval and the governor says it's going to be in there.

Brian Lehrer: Who likes this? What are the politics of this for Governor Hochul as she runs for reelection?

Jon Campbell: It is a major cultural institution in the Buffalo area. The Buffalo Bills are inextricably linked with Western New York. If you are born there, you are a fan, you have memories, it is a big deal. The implicit threat of the team leaving is always what hangs over. You've seen it with teams in Saint Louis and teams in Oakland, they've changed which are bigger markets, by the way. They have moved to other markets, gotten lush, taxpayer-funded deals to build stadiums. That is, or at least the promise of a bigger market with more revenue coming in.

That is the implicit threat that is fueling why the state is doing this, why Erie County is doing this. The governor is from Buffalo. She knows that if the team left on her watch that that would be catastrophic for her and her political base out there. That being said, there's a lot of people who don't ever believe that the Bills would've left. You're held hostage on some level because the NFL is very, very powerful and that implicit threat of leaving is very powerful.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Item number five on your five-point checklist of important things from the budget agreement announcement last night, and then we'll go on to some other things that I've got on my list, but your number five is two major New York City issues get the boot, which issues?

Jon Campbell: The first one is mayoral control of the New York City school system, which for the last decade-plus has been renewed every few years. The idea being that the school system is under the auspices of the mayor and the mayor's administration. Every few years, mayors have to ask for permission

from Albany, essentially, to continue that system of governance.

That is up for renewal this June. Mayor Adams wanted an extension, Governor Hochul wanted a several-year extension, but lawmakers said, "Hey, let's hit the pause button, this doesn't expire till June, we're in session through June. Let's talk about it some more." Quite frankly, they're mad that Eric Adams hasn't made a bigger push for it in Albany. Lawmakers like to get that attention, quite frankly, and they like to see the mayor come up to Albany and push for his priorities. Another one similar to the second issue--

Brian Lehrer: Grovel. They want to see him grovel.

Jon Campbell: You might say they want to see him twist in the wind a little bit. They haven't been very happy with his lack of a push here. The other thing he wanted and Governor Hochul wanted, an extension of the 421-a tax exemption, which is housing developers that build multi-unit housing, if they keep a portion of them affordable, they qualify for this really lucrative tax break.

The governor and the mayor say that's important because there is a housing crisis, they need to build more housing, and they need to build more affordable housing. Lawmakers hit the break on that, that expires in June. Those are two issues that they expect to debate at the very least from now to June.

Brian Lehrer: We're going to take a break, then we're going to come back and I'm going to play another clip of the governor on something that the lawmakers who came on this show over the last few months were the most eager to talk about, an expanded childcare system for New York State. We'll talk about how much they actually got that. We'll take some phone calls, people are calling in with some items that they're interested in as we break down what's in, what's out of the massive, new New York State budget bill that they've reached agreement on last night. We're talking to our Albany reporter Jon Campbell. Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC as we break down the new New York State budget agreement with our Albany reporter Jon Campbell. So many things in, so many things out. We're seeing what's in and what's out. We'll get through as many as we can before we run out of time, but there are really so many. Before we go on to the childcare item, Jon, I want to take a phone call from Edmond in Westchester who wants to react to the 16-cent-a-gallon gasoline tax holiday that they came up with for June through December. Edmond, you're on WNYC, you have a question about that, right?

Edmond: Yes. Good morning. Thanks for taking my call. I guess the question that I've got is that the way I see these types of subsidies, for instance, an electric car company, if they get a $5000 tax write-off or whatever, that that's essentially an indirect subsidy to the electric car company. That's not a comment there on whether that's good or bad, that's just how I understand that ultimately working out.

How is that different in this gas tax benefit here? How do we know that that's not actually just going to increase the profit of those that, at the end of the day, let's face it, don't need help whatsoever? What prevents that retailer from just absorbing that 16-cent benefit for themselves?

Brian Lehrer: Edmond, great question. What prevents a retailer from just absorbing that 16 cents and charging the same thing that they were charging?

Jon Campbell: That is exactly the concern that has been expressed in the last several weeks while this has been on the table. It's a concern that economists and others have raised about the idea of a gas tax holiday. How they try to deal with that, there is language in this budget, it's essentially a paragraph that says, "The retailer, the distributor, they have to pass a savings equal to the amount of the gas tax reduction onto the consumer."

Now, how will that be enforced?

That could be quite difficult to enforce, quite frankly, but the idea is, then it could give, say, the attorney general, which investigates price gouging, things like that. It could give the attorney general the ability to investigate and hold retailers accountable if they are jacking up their price, but there's thousands and thousands of gas stations across the state. That could be quite difficult to enforce. I think Edmond's instincts are in line with a lot of critics of this kind of subsidy, and that is, they try to get at that with that mind that I've mentioned in the budget.

Brian Lehrer: Here's Joseph in Downtown Brooklyn, who, I think, is not happy that they extended to-go cocktails that you can take out of restaurants. Joseph, you're on WNYC, hi there.

Joseph: Thanks very much. It's just curious to me. I haven't heard much discussion about the public health, the public safety impacts of to-go cocktails. You've had, on your show, Brian, discussion on how alcohol consumption is up. Now it's just a normalization of alcohol consumption with this. Now kids can see mommy and daddy not just have a glass of wine with dinner, but also take one to go. What's next? Are we going to have drive-through pick-up windows for alcohol?

I really hope there are reporters out there who will position themselves outside bars or restaurants and see people take their alcohol to go and then hop in their car. The fact that with more economic activity-- Let me be outrageously hyperbolic here, Brian, and say, would it be good if strip clubs offered lap dances to go? You could have your lap dance down the street in the park or out in your car. There just needs to be a little discussion about the ramifications of this, the public safety, public health.

Brian Lehrer: Most people who are outrageously hyperbolic don't pre-label that they're going to be outrageously hyperbolic, so we give you credit for transparency there, Joseph. Jon, was anything like Joseph raises part of the pushback against to-go cocktails or was it just liquor stores who didn't want competition from restaurants?

Jon Campbell: Liquor stores certainly had the most organized pushback. Quite frankly, liquor stores have been very successful in Albany protecting their turf over the years. There's a reason why you can't buy wine in grocery stores, and it's because the liquor store lobby pushed back and was very, very effective. That being said, there were concerns raised, primarily from lawmakers themselves, about quality-of-life issues.

Are we going to see people drinking on the street now? The car issue is one. Is this unintentionally going to lead to more drinking and driving? The pushback to the pushbacks, so to speak, has been, "Well, there's still open container lots." You're not going to be able to drink these on the street. They have to be sealed when you buy them in some form or fashion. You can't buy full bottles from restaurants either.

The other pushback, there are rules in here in terms of delivery drivers and the rules they have to follow when they're making a delivery of alcohol. They can't just give it to anybody in the house, they have to make sure that whoever they give it to in the house is 21. There was some quality-of-life concerns raised, but the primary pushback came from the liquor stores, and, quite frankly, that's what got most of the headlines.

Brian Lehrer: Next item, childcare. Some lawmakers were aiming for a universal childcare program that's for the little kids pre-pre-K and did not get that far, but here's what the governor said they did get.

Governor Hochul: I'm proud as a mother who had to leave a job because I could not find childcare many years ago, proud to announce that we're investing over $7 billion over four years into childcare. Let me repeat that, $7 billion over four years into childcare. That's more than double the level of New York's current support for childcare subsidies. It's broadening the eligibility substantially for childcare options for families. Through our investments, we'll be able to open the door to childcare for more than half of the young people in New York.

Brian Lehrer: All right, Jon, many of our listeners might benefit from this. Who's in and who's out?

Jon Campbell: As we understand it, with the caveat that we do not have the bill language on this yet, as we understand it, it would apply to families that make up to 300% of the poverty limit, and it would cover 80% of their costs. That would dramatically expand eligibility from where it is today. That being said, lawmakers aren't very happy about this. The governor said, $7 billion dollars over four years. She's giving that four-year number to inflate the overall cost number. It's really $1 billion or so this coming fiscal year, and then $2 billion to $3 billion if you cover it over two years. There are different ways you can look at this. There are some concerns that there may not be enough funding to cover all of the people who are going to want this. It's not going to be universal. There was some talk about maybe this would be enough to cover 15% of those who are eligible.

Advocates were pushing for the 20 to 25% range. We're not really sure where they landed on that yet, because we don't have the budget, but in general 300% of the poverty limit up to 80% of the cost of childcare.

Brian Lehrer: That again is about $83,000 a year of income for a family of four if I got that right?

Jon Campbell: Yes, that's roughly it. Right now the limit for a family of four is somewhere around 50,000, so this is a pretty significant expansion.

Brian Lehrer: Is there Universal Pre-K for New York state in this budget, like some were aiming for like there is in New York City?

Jon Campbell: There is funding for universal Pre-K, and that is something that has long been a debate. There are still a couple districts, or at least as recently as the last couple years, there are some districts upstate that don't have universal full-day kindergarten, so there has always been this push to expand pre-K. We don't have all the details, but the governor did say that there was going to be some funding to try to expand Pre-K outside of New York City.

Brian Lehrer: On the hyperbolic outrageous statement that the caller made, that hypothetical listener tweets. "I'm sure the ex-governor would be in favor of strip clubs offering lap dances to go," but that's really, really mean. That's [unintelligible 00:31:18] [crosstalk]

Jon Campbell: I'm not going to take the bait on that one.

Brian Lehrer: That's one listener on [unintelligible 00:31:23] island. All right. Next checklist item, and I'm going to let a listener via Twitter bring this up in a very critical way. They were looking for a pay increase from the current minimum wage specifically for home healthcare workers. Somebody tweets. "I urge you to discuss the budget as it is unfair, and a travesty to many New Yorkers.

Fair pay for home care was not supported by governor Hochul which will cause the death of many older adults, people with disabilities, and others that need care." That listener doesn't even bring up the fairness or unfairness to the home health workers themselves, but I think there's something in the budget for this. What's in, what's out as far as you know?

Jon Campbell: According to the governor, they're going to see a $3 increase on the minimum wage. I mean, the issue here is home healthcare workers, many of them only get paid minimum wage. These are people who go to people's homes whether it's the elderly or people with disabilities and provide care in their homes, so those people don't have to live in say a nursing home.

They were very, very active in Albany. They were pushing for 150% of the minimum wage, so if you're in an area of the state where the minimum wage is $15, they wanted a $22.50 cent minimum wage for home healthcare workers. What they ended up getting was a $3 raise about $18. They are not happy about it. They were among the most active in Albany these last couple of weeks of budget negotiations.

They were constantly in the halls of the capital chanting. The only time the governor spoke to reporters in the last two weeks of budget negotiations was this six-minute Q&A session when she got her booster shot in the capital, and the fair pay for home care protestors found out about it and were chanting behind her, and really almost disrupted the whole thing. They were very active. They made their voice heard, and they're not happy with the result.

Brian Lehrer: Next checklist item. We'll do two more, and then we're going to be out of time. We have Ann Applebaum standing by next on her really deep moral dive into not just how to save Ukraine as she sees it, but how to save what she calls the liberal world border. Also, Mayor Adams coming up later in the show, also how New Jersey is going to follow New York into the world of plastic bag bans when you go grocery shopping and what that means, but let's finish up with two more checklist items from the new New York state budget agreement.

The climate, the bill we've talked about the most here is one to end natural gas hookups for new buildings. They would have to go all electric, because that generates less in terms of greenhouse gases is it in, or is it out?

Jon Campbell: It is out. That is one where there was some pushback in the assembly. There was a lot of debate over how quickly it should happen. Forgive me. I don't remember exactly which year the governor wanted to do it, but it was four or five years from now. There were Senate Democrats who wanted, some Senate Democrats, I should say who wanted to do it sooner. Environmental advocates certainly wanted to do it sooner. They couldn't reach a deal. It's out.

The governor was asked about that yesterday, and whether she's going to make it a priority going forward. It's certainly something that's going to come up in the post-budget session, but that is one that dropped out. That said, there is a $4.2 billion environmental bond act that's going to be on the ballot that voters will get to approve. That's going to be approved by lawmakers as part of this budget, and then voters will get the final say.

Brian Lehrer: Right. Of course, we'll cover that as the November election draws near, and let people know what it is they can vote yes or no on with respect to the climate. Final checklist item, casinos for New York City in or out?

Jon Campbell: In. Casinos for New York City were always in, but they were supposed to be in 2023 to begin the process. The governor wanted to speed that up. That's something that will bring in a lot of money sooner into the state's coffers because they're talking $500 million-plus for each of the three remaining licenses.

What is interesting here is there's going to be some local board, and we don't have the language on this yet, but the governor did walk through some of this, where you have the governor, the mayor, the local state Senator, assembly person, council member, and borough president where they're going to have some say over individual sites for the casino.

If somebody wants to build a casino in Brooklyn say, you'd have this board that early on in the process would have to give their thumbs up essentially to the site location. We don't have the exact details on how that's going to work, but that is something that could keep casinos out of say Manhattan where there's a lot of pushback from local officials.

Brian Lehrer: Jon Campbell covers Albany for WNYC and Gothamist. We've gotten through as much of the fine print as we could in this massive budget agreement that the details of, or I should say the outline of came out last night. The details are still emerging, so Jon I don't know if you use reading glasses, but if you do you're going to need a stronger prescription by the end of the weekend, it looks like. Thanks a lot for coming on today.

Jon Campbell: Hey, thank you for having me, Brian.

 

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