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Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Yes, let's take a break from the seriousness of the news to discuss the seriousness of one of the city's deepest rivalries. No, we aren't talking about de Blasio versus Cuomo, we're talking about the Knicks and the Nets. The NBA Playoffs are underway, and for the first time since 2013, both New York teams have made the cut. Joining us now to break down both team standings fresh off the Knicks very exciting comeback win last night and help take your calls is Barbara Barker Newsday sports columnist and features writer.

She has covered sports in New York for more than 20 years. Her newest article is called Nets May Be Better Positioned To Win An NBA Championship, But Knicks Still Own New York As Playoffs Begin. Barbara, thanks for coming on WNYC today. Hi.

Barbara: Hey, Brian, great to be back with you.

Brian: Listeners, we're going to open up the phones to you right away. Are you a Nets or a Knicks fan? How do you feel about your team's performance this season? Who do you think has the better chance at the Eastern Conference Finals or maybe even the championship this year? 646-435-7280. Anybody listening right now, at the Garden last night or at Barclays over the weekend, indoors with thousands of people, how exciting was it? How safe did you feel? 646-435-7280.

Sports fans, this is your chance to show your Nets pride, your Knicks pride. I wonder if there are people out there who have migrated over time maybe from being a Knicks fan, because they were so bad for so long, to getting into the Nets, and now that the Knicks are good again, "Oh my God, who do I root for?" Call us if there's anybody like that. 646-435-7280. Anything you want to say about the NBA revival taking place in New York right now. 646-435-7280. Barbara, you want to start on last night's Knicks' game?

I tuned in at halftime, after I got sidelined by my having to moderate the Republican Mayoral Debate, for the first half, and they were down by 13 points. That comeback was so exciting. What were your takeaways from the game? Are they symbolic of what's made the Knicks fun again this year for the first time in a long time?

Barbara: They really are symbolic. The reason the Knicks are interesting again is, they just embody the grittiness and toughness of New York City for the first time in a while, and the way they play with defense, the way-- Even their stars, Julius Randle, who has had a terrible two games, and he's the one All Star, he was not playing well-- He had a terrible [unintelligible 00:03:13], he had two points and didn't make any shots, but they have other people around them that can do things.

To have a comeback win like that against so called Bill and Trae Young, who has even been called out by the mayor in a cringe-worthy way, I might say. It's been pretty exciting. Being there, it's almost like pre-COVID. There's over 10,000 fans, no mask, screaming. When I was there for game one, there's little anxiety, but I guess we're all changing.

Brian: They're using the vaccine passport requirement, right?

Barbara: Right. There's one section where you don't have to be vaccinated, but everybody else, you have to be vaccinated. They have left a very small, non-vaccinated social distancing section, which is down behind the basket, but everybody else has to be vaccinated. Almost every ticket is a vaccinated ticket.

Brian: Now, what did the mayor do that was cringe-worthy? I missed that.

Barbara: He called up Trae Young "the player for the other team for drawing balls and the way he played." I think the mayor has to pick a team because he had a Knicks hat on, and the previous week he had a Nets hat on, and he quoted a Nets coach when calling out somebody in a Knicks game. I think the mayor has to pick a team. You cannot like both of these teams, or there's very few people that do.

Brian: He's the mayor of all the people. Mick in Park Slope, you're on WNYC. Hi, Mick.

Mick: Hey, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. I'm a lifelong Knicks fan, and last night was just exhilarating for all the right reasons. If you saw the video of the people after they won the game, it was amazing. It was one playoff game. It's like they won the championship, but they didn't, but it was all the reasons that New Yorkers were celebrating just because of what we've all been through. I live about 10 minutes from Barclays Center, so am a converted Nets fan.

If you think about it, Brian, the Nets, the Knicks, the Mets are in first place, the Yankees are good team, the Islanders won the playoffs last night for the second round in like 15 years. It's just almost like the sun, moon and stars aligned for New York right now. Everyone loves it, and it's a great feeling.

Brian: Mick, thank you very much.

Barbara: It's amazing--

Brian: Go ahead, Barbara.

Barbara: It's amazing too, because I did mention, for all the excitement about the Knicks, the Nets are probably- they're the best team in the Eastern Conference. If they don't get to the NBA Finals, it will be considered a failure. They are bigger story nationally all year than they were in New York. The Knicks were the biggest. Only in New York does that happen. That's Knicks who people thought would barely make the- I didn't think they made the playoffs. They're a bigger story.

The collection of talent on the Nets, why would any collection of talent in the history of basketball-- It's an incredible team.

Brian: Anthony in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Anthony.

Anthony: Hey, Brian, how's it going, man? I just want to let you know that your voice is extremely soothing and your theme song is probably top five radio theme songs of all time, but there's still no excuse for the idea that there's a Brooklyn versus New York debate. This is purely, purely a next town and the Nets had no chance to win the back page almost no matter what they do.

Brian: You're calling for Brooklyn and saying that.

Anthony: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. No doubt. I'm a Queens transplant, from Queens to Brooklyn, but regardless. No matter what. Knicks' rookies are a bigger story than the whole Nets team could ever imagine.

Brian: Even Durant and Harden in Irving and the whole thing. All right, Anthony, thank you very much. After Anthony's call, I think we have to go to Trevor in Brooklyn. Trevor, you're on WNYC. Thanks for calling in.

Trevor: Hey, Brian, thanks for having me on. I was a die-hard Knicks fan. All my life, Larry Johnson [unintelligible 00:07:45], and it took me a while. When Brooklyn moved to Barclays, I'm from Brooklyn, I was hesitant to move over, but after the Knicks traded Porziņģis, I had it, the ownership, I had it. I came over to be a Nets fan. Not that they're doing well, I am excited, but I can't help but feel a little bit of, "Man," seeing the crowd at the game last night during the comeback.

So excited, you can't match that, but from Brooklyn, love the underdog, so I'm going to stick with the Nets, and hopefully they'll win this one.

Brian: Trevor, thank you very much. Barbara, you must have ruffled some feathers with your article headlined, Nets May Be Better Positioned To Win An NBA Championship, But Knicks Still Own New York As Playoffs Begin. You agree with Anthony from Brooklyn and don't agree with Trevor from Brooklyn, but is it really that much of a slam dunk that the Knicks still own New York?

Barbara: It's just because of the history. I'll tell you, I can just look at the metrics when I write one over the other. Frank Ntilikina, who barely plays, I always joke, if Frank Ntilikina gets a hangnail, and then the next when, like their fifth game in the row, maybe I better write about Frank, because more people are going to read that story, I'm just joking, but it's like, they're just more Knicks fans. I don't know if it's because it's been passed down.

I think, for the longest time, the Nets played over a dark continental arena in New Jersey. It was a bridge and tunnel thing, nobody went over there. They have [unintelligible 00:09:31] their cool factor by moving to Brooklyn, but it takes a while, it takes a while to build a fan base. It's not like their fans from New Jersey come over to Brooklyn and watch them. It does take a while. That being said, they're incredibly well-run team, which the same cannot be said--

The Knicks are taking a big step forward this year, but for the past 20 years, you could not say that the Knicks were well-run organization.

Brian: Kevin in Red Hook, you're on WNYC. Hey, Kevin.

Evan: Hi, it's Evan from Red Hook.

Brian: Sorry.

Evan: We love you, Brian, and listen to you every day. We're getting our Peace, Love, and Brian Lehrer shirt shortly.

Brian: Yes. Yes.

Evan: I grew up in Manhattan. I'm 30 years old, a long-time Knicks fan. After college, I moved to Brooklyn, and then I made the switch. I feel like the Knicks are like a toxic ex-girlfriend, you just have to cut it off. I really haven't looked back until the other week when de Blasio wore the Nets jersey at the press conference. Now, I'm conflicted again. I don't know if I made the right decision.

Brian: It's going to be hard for you if they get to the Eastern Conference Finals and play each other, right?

Evan: Yes, it will, but I hope that it happens.

Barbara: It's not going to happen. [chuckles]

Brian: Evan, thank you very much. Barbara, you're a betting woman, it sounds like.

Barbara: What would be better for someone who's spent 25 years running basketball in New York than these two teams playing each other? I would love to see this. There would be story lines. It would be the greatest. I think the Knicks are still- they're a little behind. Even take the Series 7, I think the Knicks have already transcended anything that I thought they do just by making it to the playoffs. Being 1-1 right now, it's impressive. I don't see them get-- The next round would be difficult. They'd have to play Philadelphia, so I don't see it happening.

Brian: Did you like his toxic ex-girlfriend line? The Nets ownership has burned Knicks fans so many times, and yet, Knicks fans keep coming back because they just love the team and then they get burned again. The toxic ex-girlfriends, the [unintelligible 00:12:01].

Barbara: They will do something, and then they're not consistent, and then they change their mind. There hasn't been any sense of continuity. They've had some really good people come through there, but it's always like they're looking for-- That's why this team is so great, because this team is homegrown. Their coach was an assistant coach back in the days, from John Starks and Patrick Ewing. It's a throwback to the time when so many of your listeners became Knicks fans. It's so different than what is going on in the last 20 years. It's not about the Knicks going out and trying to get some high-priced star who's going to save them.

It's being built from the ground up, which is what the Nets were doing a couple of years ago before they got to this point. If it was the other way around, if the Knicks were the glamorous team and the Nets were just like The Little Engine That Could, nobody would care. Knicks fans would care about the Knicks, but no one would care about the Nets. Just being the way it is is what makes it so fascinating.

Brian: Richard in Greenpoint, you're on WNYC. Hi, Richard.

Richard: Hi, how are you?

Brian: Good. What you got?

Richard: [unintelligible 00:13:19] transplant, so I don't think you'll find a saltier fan base in terms of Kevin Durant. I think the Nets are definitely going to win the Eastern Conference Championship, but right now, the Knicks are way more exciting because they are, like your last caller said, The Little Engine That Could. That being said, I think the Nets is a new franchise. I've been to some games at the Barclays Center. There's so many fans of the other team.

I think the new franchise in Brooklyn needs, the championship needs the parade. I just wonder, to your guest, do you think that, as a super team, it'll really galvanize the fan base like a parade could? Also, I'll say, the tickets, if you want to see basketball this postseason in New York, go for the Brooklyn Nets. Their tickets are cheaper because they're not as exciting right now. Thanks.

Brian: Richard, thank you very much. Not as exciting. Barbara, what do you say to his question?

Barbara: I've talked to a lot of people about this, and I agree that the Nets would have to win a championship and then maybe be going for another one. Some people think they will never catch one. There's just too much of a rich history. I don't know. I believe winning a race is a lot of stuff. They are seen as a carpet-bagging team as far as having- which, believe me, if the Knicks were a carpet-bagging team, no one would have any problem with that.

Brian: Meaning, improving all these high-priced free agents?

Barbara: Right, importing a bunch of high-priced people instead of growing people. They also traded a lot of players that Nets fans liked to get these guys, but that's how you make your team better. If that's how you make your team better, they [unintelligible 00:15:05] had a chance of being a team like this with the players they were playing with. That's literally how you make your team better. They made the Nets a place that big-time players wanted to come to play.

Brian: Yes, they did that.

Barbara: I will to that, rivalry is that a lot of big-time players did not want to come play at Madison Square Garden.

Brian: That's true because the next management had been so bad for so long. Bottom line. It's the most exciting time in many years, to be a basketball fan in New York City. We thank Barbara Barker, Newsday sports columnist. Thank you so much.

Barbara: Thanks, Brian. Great talking to you.

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