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Matt Katz: You have definitely noticed that all of a sudden, a lot of places that provide services are asking for tips. Your coffee shop will ask for a certain percentage of your purchase, some deli's, fast casual restaurants, specialty grocery stores, they're all now asking for tips. Do you really need to leave a tip for a bottle of water? What about a takeout order when you're just walking there to pick it up? How much of this has changed since the pandemic and in the midst of inflation? Joining us now to talk about how tipping has changed and to propose the "new rules" on tipping, is Choire Sicha, editor at New York Magazine. New York Magazine's Grub Street came out with an article earlier this year headlined, The New Rules of Tipping. Choire, welcome to WNYC.
Choire Sicha: Hi. Thanks for having us.
Matt Katz: We're going to open this up to callers because we know there's going to be a lot of opinions on this.
Choire Sicha: We've definitely noticed that.
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Matt Katz: If a big part of your income comes from tips, we want to hear from you. How has tipping changed in your industry recently? Are you noticing bigger tips from some, a lot smaller tips from others? What do you think is the cause? Is it sticker shock [unintelligible 00:01:26] when the bill comes? If you're an app-based worker, like an Uber driver or food delivery worker, do you think the apps do enough to encourage tipping? Or are you just a consumer and are you pulling your hair out over tipping?
Anything else you want to say about the new rules of tipping and who's following them, give us a call at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or you can tweet us @BrianLehrer. All right, Choire, before we get into the new etiquette around tipping, just explain how-- what's new? What has changed over the last, let's say, two or three years when it comes to tipping?
Choire Sicha: [chuckles] What a very specific number of years that was. Yes.
Matt Katz: That's how I feel like it happened. I feel like it happened right around the beginning of the pandemic. Is that right?
Choire Sicha: Sure. Well, what happened is we nearly lost every restaurant and everyone barely survived who survives in the restaurant or food service environment. There was a real shakeup for that community. Coming out the other side, servers, people who work in food preparation, are more reliant on tips and this economy is more fragile than ever. Honestly, we're encouraging people to tip 25%. Now, I know for those of us who are older, we grew up tipping 15% and those days are over.
Matt Katz: Wow. 25 for dine-in restaurants, if you're at the restaurant. That's 25 on top of the final total of the bill, or 25% based on the actual-- it's an important distinction, right?
Choire Sicha: You've been out with my grandparents recently. Yes. You tip after tax. Yes, please. We've also drawn a hard line here after talking to people in this field. If someone is preparing something for you, if someone is driving something to you, if someone is driving you somewhere, let's be prepared to tip 20%.
Matt Katz: Got it. 25% at the restaurant though, if you're eating.
Choire Sicha: You know what, tip what you can. Listen, we know we're not all flush every day. If you're barely making it, this isn't on you.
Matt Katz: Understood. Then the pickup order, I'm always confused about. I've settled on 10%, but I have no idea who exactly that money's going to or what I'm supposed to be doing.
Choire Sicha: I sometimes ask, and that's what we did here, is we did talk to a bunch of people who work in counters and we asked, "Hey, does your boss steal this money or is this actually going to the shift workers?" In many cases, the answer was good. That money is, as is required by law, being divided among these people. We're encouraging people to tip there. If you come in and buy a bottle of water, if you come in and you're just picking up some-- you know what, it's fine, you don't have to tip. Don't totally freak out over this.
Matt Katz: One more specific question. Black coffee, medium black coffee--
Choire Sicha: [laughs] You're coming to the deli, bacon, cheese-- You know what, if you can, absolutely. Are you going to make someone's day? Yes. Are you going to make someone's day better? You are.
Matt Katz: Is it just me or are tips influenced by whether or not they have the screen in front of you and can tell what you're doing and then you flip the screen back to them so they can see how much you tipped, and then you don't want to be embarrassed. It just feels so intimate. You've got to give the right amounts. That seems to be what influences my decisions here.
Choire Sicha: No, those are funny. I think we're getting a little bit used to those, which is helping. Also, servers are saying that they see all kinds of behavior. They see a ton of people, especially European visitors who are literally like, "What's this? Zero?" They're not keeping score. They're busy. They're thinking about what they're going to do after work. They're thinking about how they're going to get through their shift. They're not judging you that closely. They will notice if you leave them a nice tip, and that's great, but you know what, at the end of the day, they're making some coffees and they're going home.
Matt Katz: Apparently, the producer is just telling me that our phone lines are full of people who are not in the industry, but they're very annoyed about all the prompts for tipping. Let's take one of these callers. Don in Brooklyn. Hi, Don.
Don: Hi. I think one reason why when you go to specialty shops and artisanal shops, it's because they have that new terminal now that's white and you put your card in, and it asks you how much you want to tip, and if you don't tip, you've got a line of six people who are looking over your shoulder watching how cheap you are.
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Matt Katz: See, Don, I'm always self-conscious about what the person serving me, what they're going to say, but you're saying that there are people in line behind you who are seeing how cheap or not you might be, or how wealthy or not you might be.
Don: Exactly. Exactly. Also, this is a little awful, but also, the whole thing about credit cards, the fact that you're going into all the stores now and you're paying that 3% credit charge, which used to be done by the businesses. Am I going to tip on top of that? I don't think so.
Matt Katz: Interesting. Fair enough. Thank you, Don. Thanks very much. Katie in Brooklyn, let's hear from you. You just left the food industry, is that right?
Katie: Yes. Hi, I love your program. Thanks for having me.
Matt Katz: Thanks for calling.
Katie: I actually left the food industry because I had a wrist injury that because I don't have health insurance, I can't work the line anymore. I've worked at fine dining restaurants where the tip has been included, and also cafes, mom and pop restaurants. When I say tips need to happen, I understand that it is a racist history, the background is not savory, but also the service workers really need the tips in order to make more than minimum wage. I was making 25 an hour at the fine dining restaurant, but still, I didn't have health insurance. You only work three to four days, there's no overtime, and I was making more as a barista at a local cafe with tips.
Matt Katz: Wow. Katie, first of all, I hope your wrist is able to heal. Thank you very much for calling. Choire, can you explain some of the financials around this? It's part of their income, it's part of their minimum wage in many respects, right?
Choire Sicha: Yes. We're here in an inherited, totally broken system, and it's terrible, but our tips are a substantial percentage of people's income in these places. Most of the hourly wages that people who receive tips are being paid are much lower than what we just heard from Katie.
Matt Katz: Can I ask you a couple of rapid fire questions on what you would do here or what you recommend doing here about specific scenarios involving tipping? Not too rapid. If you do a good job here, I'll tip you afterwards.
Choire Sicha: Bring it on. Exactly. Great.
Matt Katz: $8 IPA at the bar.
Choire Sicha: Dollar on the bar for the bartender.
Matt Katz: Hair stylist
Choire Sicha: Owner, no tip. 20% employee or contractor.
Matt Katz: Nail tech.
Choire Sicha: I give the nail techs $20. I'm a total looney tune, but you know what, they're really cool and I'm a gross dude, and they're working hard. They deserve $20 from me.
Matt Katz: [laughs] You might have mentioned this before, but I forget, the Uber, Lyft driver.
Choire Sicha: Easy, 20%.
Matt Katz: Back to the calls before we wrap. Ryan in Tarrytown. Hi, Ryan.
Ryan: Hey, how's it going? I'm just curious about-- you said tipping 25% across the board earlier, but any consideration for what the minimum wage of that job is? I totally agree with skilled work, hairdressers, I'm bald, but if I had hair, I would definitely tip someone on a good job, but I'm just curious about consideration for the wage that they were getting before any change in our tipping culture.
Matt Katz: Choire, I guess you have to understand what the wage is in order to know that, right Choire?
Choire Sicha: It's true, and once you start thinking about tipping a lot, you start really wanting to ask people questions when you're eating in restaurants, which I encourage you to do, but they can't always tell you. They might get fired over it. For the most part, I think you'll find that people in the back of the house are not receiving a very high wage.
Matt Katz: Jenny on the upper west side, real quick before we end the show, we got like 20 seconds, Jenny.
Jenny: Okay. Hi, I work in catering, do a lot of wedding bar, corporate stuff, no one brings cash. They'll come to the bar, ask you to make an old fashioned. Nothing.
Matt Katz: Wow. Well, you know what I saw recently? Someone had their Venmo account at the bar. I was at an event, and nobody had cash, and I Venmoed the bartender, so that's one--
Jenny: The most obnoxious thing you can say to a catering bartender when you order a drink is, "Can I Venmo you?" Because it just means you want a big pour, and you're not going to really do it.
Matt Katz: Thank you, Jenny, and thank you, Choire Sicha. We've got to go. Appreciate you coming on.
Choire Sicha: Great day. Great time.
Matt Katz: My guest has been Choire Sicha, editor at New York Magazine. New York Magazine's Grub Street came out with an article earlier this year headlined, The New Rules of Tipping. I'm Matt Katz, filling in for Brian Lehrer. I hope everybody has a wonderful, wonderful weekend.
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