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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, to politics in New Jersey, post-gun ruling, and post-Roe from the Supreme Court, Governor Phil Murphy has signed a slate of new laws to tighten gun regulations and protect abortion access for people traveling to New Jersey from out of state. There's also a new state budget, the largest in state history, thanks to a larger than expected surge in tax collections. We'll get into all of this now and more with Brent Johnson, politics reporter for The Star-Ledger, and their website, nj.com. Hi, Brent, welcome to WNYC. Great to have you with us.

Brent Johnson: Hi. Great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start with the state's response to the Supreme Court in several ways. Last Tuesday, Governor Murphy signed seven new gun laws and promised even more to come. What's at the heart of those new gun laws?

Brent Johnson: The state already has among the strictest gun laws in the country. It's something Murphy has tried to make even stronger over the last four or five years as governor, and this is his what he calls Package 3.0. It's the third thing that him, the Democratic-controlled legislator, put in when it comes to guns. They're not as sweeping as the earlier gun laws that have been passed in the state because there's not as many gun laws to tighten in the state. There are things like if you want to obtain a gun permit, you have to go through a gun course. It bans 50-caliber weapons.

They also allows the state attorney general to sue gun manufacturers over gun crimes in the state, which is another big one, but this is the latest step Murphy and the Democratic-controlled legislature have put in to tighten gun laws.

Brian Lehrer: There was so much publicity in the New York portion of our listenership and really nationally over the Supreme Court's gun ruling establishing the Second Amendment right to carry guns in public because it was really hard to get a New York City gun permit to do that, as opposed to just keep one in your home or keep one in your business. That got a lot of New York publicity because specifically, it was the New York case, but this also affects New Jersey because New Jersey has similar restrictions to public carry, right?

Brent Johnson: Yes, that's true. In New Jersey, it's very difficult to obtain a permit to carry a gun in New Jersey, very similar to New York, and this is something Murphy's talked about. These gun laws that he just signed, he proposed them more than a year ago, but in recent weeks and months, he's gotten more urgent on the message because of the mass shootings that have happened, and then the Supreme Court ruling because there's now a concern among some people, it'll be now easier to carry a gun in New Jersey. Now, he's proposed other laws that he wants to see the legislature pass and him to sign.

One big one is that it would restrict where you'd be able to carry your gun in New Jersey, no hospitals, no restaurants, no bars, and he needs the legislature probably to come in for a special session this summer to send him that bill.

Brian Lehrer: That's the New York response too that they hope will pass muster with the Supreme Court that for some reason, they think the Court will let them identify sensitive places where they can restrict guns, like public transportation, medical facilities, I think you just mentioned, I think that was one in New York, and schools and some other places.

Brent Johnson: Yes. That's the question now is how much does the Supreme Court ruling throw the door open to all these things being challenged? As I said, New Jersey has among the strongest gun laws in the country, but you hear gun rights advocates and some Republicans saying "Well, now, this is open game. Expect to see more lawsuits." There have already been a number of laws that the gun rights advocates have filed lawsuits to try and overturn one being of the assault weapons ban in New Jersey, which has been in place for a number of years. That's the thought that this law opens up the door to taking away some of these strong restrictions.

Brian Lehrer: Onto abortion and the right to get an abortion. Does the Supreme Court's Roe decision affect anything in New Jersey law for New Jersey women, or is the issue women coming from out of state to seek abortions in New Jersey now?

Brent Johnson: The latter is really the big issue now in New Jersey because New Jersey in January, the Democratic-controlled legislature and our Democratic Governor Phil Murphy enacted a law that enshrines abortion into state law. Abortion remains legal in New Jersey as a dozen a number of other states, but the bill that just passed that Murphy just signed would basically protect women who are coming from other states that don't have abortion to get an abortion in New Jersey, it would protect their legal rights. That is something that was done in the wake of the Supreme Court ruling.

There's a few other things Murphy wants to do in terms of medical coverage for women getting abortion that the legislature has been a bit more leery of passing. He said he's not done on the issue that this is something that will come up again, there's other steps that New Jersey has to take to protect it.

Brian Lehrer: When you say medical coverage for women from out of state, meaning the state would pay for some of those abortions if the women are poor?

Brent Johnson: That would be, yes. It would be coverage for people of lower income who can't afford it.

Brian Lehrer: I know they're talking about that in New York. One of the things that did not go through in New York was transportation to New York for out-of-state women from states that ban abortion. Are they talking about that in New Jersey?

Brent Johnson: I've not heard that at least as loudly. If that is being discussed, it would be behind the scenes, but that's not out of the question here, too. Again, Murphy said this issue is something he's going to keep fighting for so I wouldn't be surprised if that comes up here as well.

Brian Lehrer: Brent Johnson with us, politics reporter for The Star-Ledger and nj.com. Moving on to another bit of news, the state budget. People, don't yawn, budgets are really interesting. Budgets are where policy gets made, budgets are where priorities get established, budgets are matters of life and death. A $50 billion budget buoyed by a big surge in tax revenue that led to an $11 billion surplus. Democrats control the legislature. From the looks of this budget, what has emerged as their spending priorities for this next fiscal year?

Brent Johnson: Well, this was in the wake of what happened in November, as happened in a few other states. Democrats retain control of the legislature and Murphy won reelection, but those races were closer than expected and Republicans picked up seven seats. Something that you heard emerged in the wake of November was Democrats talking more and more about making New Jersey more affordable. We have the highest property taxes in the nation and a lot of other fees and all types of taxes people pay across the state. Murphy and the Democrats said, "We are going to make things more affordable."

They revamped property tax relief in the state, put in something called the ANCHOR program, which will give tax rebates to 2 million people in the state or 2 million households. That was the biggest thing that Democrats drove on. We're going to do properties, actually. Republicans countered that said, "That's really a drop in the bucket, and we could give you a lot more immediately because these property tax rebates won't happen until May of next year." Then there's other things that Democrats say they fortified the budget with, there's the largest surplus in state history. They made another full pension payment to the state's beleaguered pensions, that public worker pension system.

Democrats are holding this up as the greatest budget that the state has ever seen. Republicans are saying they could have done a lot more with the sudden surge in tax revenue and Coronavirus funds from the federal government. Even some advocates are upset that they didn't do more things with this budget that the Democrats chose to not do enough in certain areas. Not everyone's happy, except the Democratic leaders who are saying, "This is the greatest budget New Jersey has ever seen. We should all be thrilled."

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, anyone from Jersey want to call in on the state's response to the Supreme Court's gun ruling, the Supreme Court's abortion rights ruling, or anything in the budget that you're happy or unhappy with? We have a few minutes for this if you want to get in, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. One thing that I noticed seems to be a trend between both New York and New Jersey is more funding in these new budgets in both states for child tax credits, or in New York, it's a lot of funding, it's billions of dollars for child care programs to enable women especially to go back into the workforce after COVID.

I know we're still in COVID, but after the unemployment portion of COVID, but with a lot of childcare still needed and a lot of homes with kids with their protocols having to stay out for a week and all that stuff, but a lot more for childcare in New York, there's at least the new state-level child tax credit program in New Jersey, what's there?

Brent Johnson: Yes. That's directly related to the pandemic where childcare was a major issue during the pandemic in New Jersey as it was across the country. Again, this plays more into Democrats' push to make the state more affordable. As I know, I'm someone who has a daughter who's a year and three months and childcare is a very taxing thing on families, and I know Democrats have tried to make that a major focus because it's all about trying to give the sense that New Jersey is a very expensive place to live meaning Democrats will do something to help make it better and childcare is right at the forefront of that.

Brian Lehrer: The budget itself, this is going to get a little wonky for some people, but the size of the budget, $50 billion, the state budget for New Jersey. Do I have that right? $50 billion-ish?

Brent Johnson: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Now, New Jersey and New York City have about the same number of people, a little less than 9 million people in the state of New Jersey, a little less than 9 million people in the city of New York. The city budget that just passed is $100 billion. The state budget for all of New Jersey, same number of people but state-level, $50 billion, half of what the city alone spends. What's the difference?

Brent Johnson: That's a really good question. I wish I had my budget reporter here to explain it better. I just imagine a lot more might go into running New York City, which is one of the largest cities in the world than it goes into running a state. There are Democrats who would probably say that even $50 billion in the state budget of New Jersey is not enough. Although Republicans will counter that spending has gone up significantly under Phil Murphy. That's a really good comparison. I'd never considered that before.

Brian Lehrer: Maybe it's because New Jersey has 600 municipalities in addition to the state government who are all paying to take out their own garbage and hire their police forces and things.

Brent Johnson: That's a good point, yes. 564 as of this year. It's an incredible number of places. Everybody gets their own town in New Jersey.

Brian Lehrer: Martha in Bergen County. Martha, you are on WNYC. Hello.

Martha: Hi. Thank you very much. Longtime listener, first-time caller. I'm a faculty member at one of the colleges in the state system, and we are as usual unhappy with the amount of support we get from the state over the last several decades. Support from the state has declined, tuition and fees have gone off, and despite the fact that New Jersey contributes a great deal to K through 12 education, it has consistently failed to support higher education. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Do you hear that a lot, Brent, from faculty members?

Brent Johnson: Yes, you often hear that. Especially at Rutgers, The State University, you'll hear that athletics are funded far too much, and not enough money is going to the academic side. The governor will often say that, well, you need-- it's an and/both situation is what he always says. You need to fund both. Yes, school funding in general was a question in this budget. Despite the fact that it's a record budget, they didn't, the Democratic leaders didn't fully fund the state school funding formula. It fell about $600 million short and everyone said, "Well, you couldn't find $600 million in the $50 billion budget?" Basically, they said, "Well, we'll do it next year. We'll do it in the next budget."

The big controversy here, not controversy. I shouldn't say scandal or anything, but people were upset that Rutgers University got $100 million in funding to help pay for new athletic facilities, and it comes at a time when the school is facing questions over how fiscally responsible its athletic department is. You do often hear these questions about funding. Why don't colleges get more? Why don't K through 12 schools get more? This was definitely something you've heard in this budget season.

Brian Lehrer: Craig in Morganville, you're on WNYC. Hi, Craig.

Craig: Hey, how are you doing, guys? I think what politicians in New York and New Jersey are forgetting, and no matter how great laws they're trying to put in place about abortion, is that what happens if some woman comes from Kansas City to New York or New Jersey, has an abortion, goes back, what's to stop Kansas City from prosecuting her for murder? I'd like to know that. Even if New York put that or New Jersey put that law in place that she can't, who's to stop Kansas from prosecuting her? I think you guys are not foreseeing it. It's going to be a bigger problem than you think. The other quick comment, I'll leave you alone.

Brian Lehrer: Go ahead.

Craig: If these people about is so sanctimonious about life in general, why don't some creative lawyers of women or men-- if you're going to outlaw abortion, why don't they outlaw vasectomies? Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Outlaw vasectomies or it could be that they should be mandated if women can't get abortions, but that's another show. What about his scenario? I realize you're not a lawyer or legal correspondent. Yes, a woman comes from Texas or Kansas, or some state that has made it illegal for her to have an abortion. She comes to New York, to New Jersey, and has an abortion that's legal in New Jersey. They maybe still can prosecute her in her state if they find out that it happened, but there's nothing New Jersey can do about that except argue in court that she did something legal in a legal state. That's not the focus, I don't think, of the protections that they're trying to enact, right?

Brent Johnson: No, it's not. It's around the same idea, but yes, my thought would be that the Attorney General's office would argue that case in court in Kansas or Missouri, depending on which Kansas City he's talking about. These are a lot of legal questions that are going to go into this. This and guns are I feel this is just the beginning, the tip of the iceberg in terms of what we're going to be looking at, all these questions going forward, and you're going to see lawsuits prop up. It's a brave new world in terms of abortion and guns. I don't have a swift answer on what would happen with that.

Brian Lehrer: I think one of the ways where New Jersey is going to have to defend its own is if the other states tried to go after, let's say, a doctor in New Jersey, who performed an abortion, that is legal to perform an abortion but on a woman who wasn't allowed to have one, technically, because she's a resident of Texas, which doesn't allow her to do that. Can they go after the doctor for committing a crime in his or her own right? I think that's part of what we may be seeing at the Supreme Court. They like states rights at the Supreme Court. We'll see if they like those states rights.

Brent Johnson: This is one thing Governor Murphy, who is considered a possible presidential candidate should Joe Biden not run for reelection, he's used this phrase repeatedly in the past few weeks that we've become a patchwork quilt of laws in this country. That plays to that idea that everything's different depending on what state you're in. Again, one of the unanswered questions going forward is how this affects everyone across state lines?

Brian Lehrer: Brent Johnson, politics reporter for The Star-Ledger and their website, nj.com. Brent, thanks a lot.

Brent Johnson: Thank you.

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