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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We begin today with how New Jersey is expected to make history tomorrow. The state legislature is expected to pass the bill that would set up a legal marijuana sales industry in the Garden State. The referendum for legal cannabis as you know passed on election day, but it left to the legislature, the work of hashing out the details of who can buy what, where and when, and how the weed-related racial injustices of the past would be addressed for the future.

Now they have those details and the vote tomorrow is expected to affirm those details that we will go over now. Let's see what the legal cannabis era in New Jersey is about to look like with me for this is Amanda Hoover reporter at NJ advanced media covering marijuana legalization. Thanks for doing this, Amanda. Welcome back to WNYC.

Amanda Hoover: Thank you for having me.

Brian: Let's start with a very basic question. When will people be able to walk into a storefront in New Jersey and buy marijuana?

Amanda: It seems like a basic question, but it's actually one of the biggest unknowns right now. Even though the people voted to legalize marijuana in November, and that will take effect as a Constitutional amendment on January 1st. Even though this bill now seems likely to pass, there's still a lot that needs to be done to ramp up the industry to the point that it's at a capacity, that it could serve an estimated one million consumers in the state of Jersey alone, but along people that would come from New York and come from Pennsylvania, who would be interested in buying as well.

To do that there are only a few medical marijuana dispensaries in the state right now. They would have to certify that they have enough to serve almost 100,000 patients that are currently registered and then could begin selling to the public. The state really doesn't want to jeopardize patients' access to marijuana by letting those sales start too soon, but even with that, there's probably going to need to be at the licensing of new dispensary's and the time it takes them to get off the ground and open before these legal sales can start. Some people say maybe about a year from now, maybe longer than that early 2022 is where a lot of forecasts are.

Brian: I guess a lot of new dispensaries would have to open. It wouldn't just be these ones that are relatively few, you can tell us the current number expanding their footprints where they are. I imagine there would be storefronts all over the state. I was thinking people can walk across the George Washington bridge right now. There's probably going to be one right there at the foot of the bridge in Fort Lee. New Yorkers can go back and forth in their cars or on foot or on their bikes. Is it going to be that kind of thing? Are they going to be everywhere?

Amanda: That's the idea. One just opened in Philipsburg, which is right across the bridge from the Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania, there's a couple set to open up in Hudson County. These are all medical dispensaries that would theoretically be able to sell to the public. They're really expected to be anywhere in any town that's willing to have them and where people want to set up shop. The tricky thing with people coming from New York or Pennsylvania, technically they're not supposed to be taking this across state lines.

It's going to be something that's a bit difficult to enforce. We already see that happen with alcohol, in certain circumstances where it travels across state lines and isn't really supposed to, but people from other States will be able to travel into New Jersey and purchase.

Brian: One of the main sticking points has been who will profit from the legal cannabis industry? Advocates in New Jersey, as you know once the taxes that come from the legal sales to go to communities that have been disproportionately harmed by marijuana prohibition. What does the bill cover in that respect?

Amanda: That's one of the biggest changes since the bill was introduced just a few days after the election, there's been a tax added, it's a social equity excise fee, and this would be a flat rate on marijuana growers. It would be paid per ounce and it would really rise as the overall price falls. There was a lot of concerns about taxing marijuana, too high, and that people would continue to go to the illicit market and not frequent these dispensaries if they couldn't produce it at the same rate in quantity that people are obviously able to get from drug dealers currently.

That tax will go up eventually as this price falls, there's a bunch of metrics set for-- It could be triggered when it drops below $300 per ounce. Then the average price drops about $200 an ounce. This could go up as well. All of that money is earmarked in the bill to go to certain communities in New Jersey that have been identified as impact zones. Some of those include Atlantic City, Newark places where there's been really disproportionate enforcement of marijuana prohibition that has impacted people's abilities there to get jobs, get loans, get housing, things like that over the past few decades during major part of the war on drugs.

As well though, the bill will also allow for 70% of the state sales tax that's put on what people will actually pay when they show up at the dispensary, 70% of that will also be funneled into these programs,

Brian: Listeners, your questions about marijuana legalization in New Jersey, as they seem to have worked out the details of the system and a bill will be passed in the state legislature tomorrow. Everyone expects Amanda Hoover is covering this for NJ Advance Media. Who has a question about legal weed coming to New Jersey? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. Or you can tweet a question @BrianLehrer.

You also wrote about how advocates want the limited number of licenses for growing and selling to go to some of the people you were just describing, people from communities of color, those with prior arrests for marijuana convictions in particular, or I should say convictions for marijuana arrests and those who live in the impact zones, the communities you were just listing. Tell us again, what are some of those impact Jones and how much does the bill specify, that people from those communities, people even specifically with criminal records will get to run the dispensaries or run the grilling facilities.

Amanda: That's something that even yesterday when there was still hearings on this, there was still testimony from advocates that they wanted this to be a bit clearer in the bill, that there would be a social equity applicant status that would favor people with past convictions, favor people in these municipalities. They want that language firmed up because right now there's still a concern that some of these large multi-state operators, companies that are big in Canada, in Massachusetts, in California, other places on the West Coast, that's a lot of who operates in New Jersey right now.

There's a worry that they would come in and then hire maybe 25% of people to meet that bar, hiring 25% of people from those impacts zones to meet that standard and get some of those licenses. Advocates just want to see this firmed up a bit. There's not expected to be any amendments to the bill before it passes tomorrow. That piece, I think, is still a place where advocates wanted to see some change, but there are also provisions in this bill that set aside micro licenses. Those are a bit easier to apply for in theory, you have to be a business of 10 people or less.

You have to really have your ownership in New Jersey. Then there's another provision that sets aside 15% of licenses for racial minorities and another 15% for women and disabled veterans. The idea being to have some of these people just from around the state, in those cases, whether you're in the impact zones or not to be able to get into this industry, that can be very hard to access without a lot of capital.

Brian: I was just going to ask you if there are any good examples from some of the legal states that already exist. I think a lot of people in our area have a basic familiarity with this, but a lot of people probably don't because it's so concentrated out in the West, but the whole West Coast has legal recreational, marijuana sales, meaning California, Oregon, and Washington. Also, Colorado, I think Idaho correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been pretty a Western US thing with the exception of Massachusetts, which has had a legal industry for a couple of years now.

I was just going to ask, are there any best models out there among the States for the implementation with justice that you were just describing that they're aiming for, but I'm going to take a phone call because we have somebody who comes originally from Washington State and wanted to make some comparison. Alexis in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Alexis: Thank you. I would like to say that as a person from Washington state where my mother was able to vote for this initiative eight years ago, that they have been bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue each year, instead, New York, New Jersey, the East Coast States that had no voter initiative that we have to rely on Albany and various state machinations that we cannot legalize. This is stupid already. We've spent so much money on interdiction on prisons. What is wrong with us?

Brian: Well, it seems to be changing. Alexis, thank you very much. You're in New Jersey, you cover New Jersey for a New Jersey news organization, Amanda, but do you have any indication that this will start a domino effect on the East coast as that color now in New York, but originally from Washington State says it's so needed?

Amanda: Yes, that's absolutely expected to happen. There's talks in New York, there's talks in Pennsylvania. There was a big push to get this done in New Jersey too. One of the reasons they wanted it done sooner legislatively that didn't work. They had to go to the ballot because they couldn't get enough votes in the legislature to pass a bill, which they tried for several years, but New Jersey really wanted to be first, and to get that initial business from Pennsylvania, New York, even Delaware, down in the Southern portion of the state.

I think that's just been talked about so much that this will start a domino effect. That New Jersey could be the initial huge market in the Northeast, that could lead to a lot of other states seeing the benefits. Some other states maybe want to see if some of the worries come true that this-- Some people say that this is going to be hard to enforce with impaired driving. Some people worry about increased youth use. There's not really studies that show either of those being a big issue, but I think some states definitely want to watch this play out on the East Coast before they're willing to jump in and take the risk for themselves.

Brian: Of the 10 lines on our board, three of them have the same question, and this question has come in before when we've talked about the prospect of legalizing marijuana sales in New Jersey. We're going to get Alturo in Jersey City on the line here to represent this block of callers. Alturo you're on WNYC. Hi, there.

Alturo: Hi Brian. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for the topic. My question is very simple. In the aspect of equity and justice for current marijuana older patients, is there anything in the provision on the law? How much patients are allowed to grow their own marijuana to address the issue of really expensive medical insurance?

Brian: Alturo. Thank you very much. You're saying you're a medical marijuana user right now. You have prescriptions.

Alturo: Yes.

Brian: Currently under the law, you may not grow your own?

Alturo: That is correct.

Brian: Here you go, Amanda. For people not familiar with this issue, the reason we get this question so much is it would seem like common sense to most people. I think if you can go into a store and buy something, tomatoes, cucumbers, marijuana, you could grow your own in the backyard, but that's not been the case so far.

Amanda: That was not. That's been debated in New Jersey for years. That's not something that's in this current bill and that does set it apart in many other states, most patients are allowed to home grow and in New Jersey, it's something that's really been talked about so much because the average price per ounce of marijuana within the medical program is high $300 and $500 on average.

You're allowed up to three ounces a month, if you need that much, many people do not purchase that much, but you're looking at $1,500 a month potentially that you're spending on your medicine, homegrown is not something in here, it's something that lawmakers say that they think will happen as legalization passes as the state gets more comfortable with this, but it's just been too controversial to pass in either some of the medical marijuana reform that's happened or this bill.

Brian: We'll explain that a little bit more because I could see two tracks on this. One would be "home grow as a black market" where somebody's under a home grow provision was growing a lot and trying to sell it on the street and get around the taxes, and get around having to invest in a brick and mortar storefront or things like that, but then there are people like what it sounds like our caller Alturo in Jersey city wants to do, which is just grow your own for your own use. Are cops going to come and bust you for that when you can walk into a store three blocks away and buy the same thing legally?

Amanda: Potentially, they could the way that the bill is. It's very frustrating for patients. It comes up in testimony all the time in the legislature and there's just lawmakers are not willing to budge on this. It could be that the more people that homegrow, the less tax revenue that goes to the state there is this fear, I guess that there would be-- It would bolster the black market. I think that most people though, who are interested in home grow seem to be people who just want to have a few plants and would be happy with a provision included in the bill that just would allow them to have a few plants, the kind where you could only grow enough to yield for your own medical use for one or two people.

Brian: Could be a quantity limit under the law and they could regulate the black market that way. Is this a stop to industry? Because there are marijuana growing companies out there that want to dominate the market. They lobbied against home grow. Is that a thing?

Amanda: That very well could be part of the reason if you're trying to get as many customers to come to this so that there's more supply, more competition, the prices fall, you get more tax revenue to the state, everybody's getting more business. That's why there's not huge support for home grow among those in the industry. It more comes from the patients.

Still, many people would still prefer the convenience and the ease I think of going to a dispensary or we're trying to figure out how to grow this plant effectively and on their own, but hunger really became a big topic again this year because when the state initially locked down for coronavirus, the dispensary stayed open, their medical, they're considered essential businesses, but many of the people going you have cancer survivors or cancer patients, people with other pre-existing conditions, things that make them more vulnerable to the coronavirus if they were to contract it.

There's so many people that just wanted home grow so they could feel more secure, and that was not a provision that was allowed even though the department of health did allow things like online ordering and curbside pickup, they're trying to get delivery started. They're trying to do a few things that would limit contacts for patients going to the dispensary, but home grow was not one that was seriously considered.

Brian: Caledonia in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC. Hi.

Caledonia: Hi Brian, this is Caledonia your colleague.

Brian: Oh, I know you you're that Caledonia.

Caledonia: I know you. Yes, I'm that Caledonia.

Brian: You outed yourself. Now everybody else who [unintelligible 00:17:30] knows who you are.

Caledonia: I think it's fine. I wanted to be very clear that I am me. I'm not an anonymous person in Brooklyn. I'm 51, and my father sold marijuana in New York City for 30 years. For 30 years and he moved back to New Jersey to take care of his mother who was sick in the 90s. It was in New Jersey, now I should preface this by saying he's a white man. He looks like some monopoly man. He was always very privileged by being white.

He could get away with a lot, but in New York City he was rarely targeted. Then, when he moved to New Jersey he lived with my grandmother as a developmentally disabled sister in a suburb, but a rather posh suburb, which I won't name. They're not posh, but they happen to live there for years and years. His house was busted, he was broken into twice, like in a sort of a SWAT team-ish way.

He's relatively small time. There was less than $10,000 at the house. At 68 he ended up serving three months in jail, not prison but in jail, in New Jersey. The last time he was busted. For me as somebody who my whole childhood, I could never tell anybody what my father did. I did grow up with him, but my mother was always very clear that it was nothing to be ashamed about that judges and lawyers also smoke marijuana, but as somebody who is 51, it's so interesting now to see this become legal in New Jersey.

Then also just to hope that it really-- People are thoughtful and they make sure that there's equity in who is able to grow and sell. I just thought personal stories are always helpful because people have been selling marijuana for years and their names and faces.

Brian: That's a great story, Caledonia, something I never knew about you.

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What do you think the lesson is there if you can take us even one step deeper into not just your father's experience, but your father's reflection on his own experience and his own privilege? Not that privilege, he went to jail as you described, but nevertheless compared to other people who might've been doing the exact same thing he was doing.

Caledonia: He's always very clear. He's also maybe-- He's very outside of the culture person. He was a beatnik and a war resistor, actually. I think he was always aware of his privilege and he used it to get away with it. He was always conscious that it was helping him conduct his business. I think he knew it and he would never not acknowledge how lucky he was. I'm sure and he knew that from the beginning. He looked like a nice Irish Catholic boy. [crosstalk]

Brian: Caledonia, thanks for sharing that. I think that's so useful for a lot of people to hear. I guess I'll see you around the Zoom water cooler.

Carl: Oh, I know. I hope so. Take care. Thank you so much for taking my call, Brian. I appreciate it. Happy holidays to all of our listeners.

Brian: All of our colleagues. Thank you, Caledonia. Amanda, that story is so emblematic. It's exactly why some of the things you were beginning to talk about in the beginning of the segment are so necessary to have in the bill. How to have the industry set up in ways that will disproportionately benefit communities that were disproportionately disadvantaged by the way the law was desperately enforced.

Amanda: Those stories, there's so many of those in New Jersey and up so many people have testified and so many activists have really taken a hand in the campaign to get this ballot question pass and as well in trying to influence policy. Another thing that has still been happening, even though New Jersians voted on this on a two to one margin on November 3rd, Police have continued to arrest people for possession marijuana, also dealing much larger amounts and having those people are still being arrested for a joint some residue, some paraphernalia, these very minor things that all take place at the municipal court level. Those arrests did drop a bit in November compared to October.

There was not a full stop on this for quite some time. This was continuing and there was a lot of discretion really left up to police, to local prosecutors, and very disparate enforcement and prosecution of these offenses. We're still seeing that. The attorney general did halt prosecutions until late January, said to local prosecutors, "Don't move forward on these low possession cases." That was not issued to the police. Certain police departments in their own capacity could still arrest people, and can still until-- The lawmakers will have to decriminalize this as well, which that bill is also expected to pass tomorrow.

Brian: The decriminalization bill is separate from the legalization bill, that can be confusing.

Amanda: It can.

Brian: The state constitutional amendment that the voters passed on election day takes effect on January 1st I see. Does that mean starting on New Year's Day, the things you were just describing police arresting people for a joint or some residue can no longer take place in the state of New Jersey?

Amanda: It could be a legal gray area, which is really why they rushed to pass this decriminalization which would allow people to have up to six ounces. With this constitutional amendment, there's not a lot of specifics in there. It could open the door to just a lot of chaos if these bills aren't passed. That's what people are so worried about and trying to get these done. They hope to have them done in November. Some of these debates on tax structure delated a few other debates on the licensing process and how many marijuana growers might be allowed.

Initially, that led to some delays as well. Come January 1st, it's a constitutionally protected right, even if there's no legal way for people to purchase it. There was a concern that without getting these bills into place, it could be a bit of a free for all. Police might still continue to arrest people without a direct law change. Those arrests could be thrown out. If they don't pass these, January 1st could be a very confusing time for law enforcement, for individuals, for the courts.

Brian: Listeners if you're just joining us, my guest is Amanda Hoover, a reporter at NJ Advance Media covering marijuana legalization after New Jersey voters passed that referendum on election day. The legislature is expected to pass bills tomorrow. As we just heard, it's really two different bills setting up a decriminalization system and a legalization system for actually getting the stores and the taxation and everything else going in New Jersey in 2021. When we continue in a minute, some of the callers who are waiting, Danny in Greenpoint want to ask about policy for traveling across state lines.

Are they really going to bust you for walking across the George Washington Bridge? Jerry in Nutley wants to know how to get a business off the ground. I'm sure a lot of people especially in this unemployment-soaked 2020 are interested in that. We'll continue with Amanda in a minute. Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC with Amanda Hoover from NJ Advanced Media, who covers marijuana legalization for them. The New Jersey Legislature is expected to pass bills tomorrow that will implement the details so that will codify the details. Then, they'll begin to get implemented of marijuana legalization in the state as passed by the voters in New Jersey on election day. We're going over those details and taking your questions. Next up is Danny in Greenpoint. Danny, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Danny: Hey, Brian. How are you? Thanks for taking my call. My question is basically the policy of traveling back over state lines. New Jersey keeps talking about this income that they want to rely on from New York and from Pennsylvania. Really, what is the law when it comes to purchasing marijuana in New Jersey small amounts and then coming back to a different state?

Brian: Amanda, can you clear that up?

Amanda: Yes. In these cases, federal prohibition of marijuana will supersede. It is not legal to bring it across state lines. It seems that all the talk about getting the business from New York and Pennsylvania. It seems that people are assuming that people are going to be coming across state lines. Part of the difficulty too is if you were to come from New York, you're supposed to be consuming in New Jersey. At this point, you can consume in private places if you don't have the residence there, if you don't have a friend's house, if you haven't, maybe you would want to rent a shore house, but the person you're renting from could have rules about consuming smoking in there.

It's going to be tricky for people to try to come from another state and follow all of those rules. Are people going to be checking you at the state border to make sure you're not bringing any in? It seems impossible with how much traffic there is. You then would face-- Depending on where you're going, certain places possession is decriminalized. You might see just a small fine for having it. If you go outside of Philadelphia and much of Pennsylvania, I know it's not even decriminalized. You could face criminal charges for this marijuana that you purchased legally in New Jersey and then brought into Pennsylvania.

Brian: You'd have to get caught in those cases like you would get caught with any black market marijuana that you have now. I think the question of crossing the state lines is a unique one. I wonder if there's experience with that you've been able to report on. For example, it seems to me that nobody has talked about the prospect of New Yorkers crossing into New Jersey to buy legal marijuana more than Governor Andrew Cuomo.

He's using it as a lobbying tool for his own state legislature in New York to pass this and say, "Look, we're going to lose out on all this tax revenue because people are just going to go to New Jersey. They're going to take the path train whatever. They're going to buy marijuana and they're going to come back." Never has Andrew Cuomo, in his references that I've heard said anything about federal agents on the train at 33rd Street when you get off the path train being there to screen your backpacks.

I think he also made a reference to Massachusetts where I've read that there are even buses that, I don't know if it's happening during the pandemic, I think previously there were buses that were advertising themselves as the magic bus or something like that, that would take people from New York City to Great Barrington, which is the closest one in Massachusetts apparently to go shopping. I have not heard of federal checkpoints. Even in the Jeff Sessions, William Barr Justice Department era or New York State Troopers, or anything like that setting up checkpoints, but have you?

Amanda: No. I think that Governor Cuomo is being very realistic about how it will in theory be pretty easy to just cross the border and to bring marijuana back to New York City to other parts of the state. I think his urgency in getting New York to legalize as well and to cite that makes sense. It's one of those things where it's just going to be very difficult to enforce. The federal government all of the medical marijuana operations and continued dispensaries across the country, they violate federal law.

The federal government has really left those alone largely. That's always a risk that comes with operating in this business, but they could come in and try to bust some of this up. They just really have left it to the states to figure out their rules and to keep things though, at the same time with inner state, which is much easier in some places like California and Colorado and Oregon where you're usually just an hour from a state line the way that you really are in most parts of New Jersey.

Brian: We have two people waiting on the phones who have questions about getting into the business. I'm going to take both calls, and then see what your answer is. We'll go first to Jerry in Nutley. Jerry, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in. Hi, there.

Jerry: Thank you so much for taking my call. I have been following these developments because I have a business plan. I have a business idea. I have everything. I can see it all very clearly. I don't know where to apply, how to get in. I know that they are going to empower a regulatory board. I'm wondering if there's any information on when applications will be open what you'll need, how you'll be able to legally open up to grow and deliver?

Brian: Got it. Now standby because I'm going to go next to Agusto in Hudson County and get his question on a similar topic. Agusta, you're on WNYC. Hi there.

Agusto: Hi, there. Thank you for taking my call. I'm just calling to see what the upfront cost is to getting into the business under the micro license, barring equipment and rent for the location? What is that used under the cultivation licenses? Thank you.

Brian: Agusto, thank you so much. Amanda, how much at this point can you answer either Jerry's question or Agusta's question? That's an interesting one about how much money does somebody have to have to invest to get one of these micro licenses, as he called it for growing weed, that kind of business off the ground?

Amanda: A lot, even though this is a 200 Plus page bill that lays out a lot of things, it also does give a lot of autonomy to that commission, the regulatory body. It's the Cannabis Regulatory Commission, that still needs more appointees from the governor and from the speaker of the assembly. It's supposed to be a five-member panel, also, there's an executive director. They will be really doing the licensing, laying out those parameters and specifics.

This bill does give a map for how that should be done, but there's still going to be a lot of autonomy on that board. That's really when we'll learn more about some of those costs and the ways in which to apply all the things that you need. Some of that might be very similar to pass medical applications, which have been incredibly lengthy and costly. Those though are all for big companies that have been licensed that are growing, processing, and selling their own. That can be millions of dollars in investment.

These micro-businesses are going to be far different and theoretically much more accessible. The hard part of this industry, though, is just still with it being federally illegal, it can be hard to access traditional ways to get investment. A lot of banking isn't open to the cannabis industry. There's definitely still challenges there even if you're coming as a smaller business. I think all of that the application process and some of those more concrete costs, depending on the size of the business as well that's all going to come about as we see more about what the Cannabis Regulatory Commission puts into place.

Brian: Agusto is asking about becoming a grower, Jerry was asking about opening a dispensary or a store. Would I be right in guessing that it will be easier to get a dispensary off the ground because they're just going to be many licenses for many locations, compared to the number of places they'll be able to grow?

Amanda: In part that could be true. This build limits, it doesn't limit micro businesses for growers, but it limits the more traditional licenses to 37 in the first two years after this bill passes. If there's only so much more marijuana being grown, even though there's not a cap put on those dispensary licenses, there's only so many dispensaries that can open if we have limited products still. I think that's something that the CRC will have to look at.

As with the past applications for medical, there could be some competition here, it's not expected to be as fierce, but probably trying to get into this as soon as possible if it's something you really want to be in in the beginning of the states legalization would probably be the best way to try to go about that.

Brian: Before we run out of time two other things real quick, maybe three, if I can squeeze it in if your answers are really, really short. One is testing we reported on this a little bit in a series we did on legal weed around the country a couple of years ago. This was one of the things that delayed the actual opening of dispensaries in Massachusetts.

I know, it takes time to set up testing labs at the scale that they'll need to make sure the products are what they say they are because all of a sudden this black market product, marijuana is going to be a legal regulated product and they're going to have to be testing labs around the state to make sure that it has the percentage of THC and not more and not less that it says it has, and that there are or aren't other ingredients in the mix that are legal or illegal, et cetera.

Then, there's a question of what kinds of cannabis products? I know there was a question. We had the State Senate President Sweeney on the show when they were starting to debate this and he said no gummies in New Jersey. They sell gummies that look like regular gummy candies in a lot of the states that have legal marijuana. I know Senator Sweeney was concerned that that would make a too appealing to children. Will there be gummies and other kinds of chocolatey and sweet treat edibles?

Amanda: Yes. The bill does allow for edibles. It has pretty strict rules on packaging and also it bans these being put into shapes of characters or people or animals, the kind of things that kids are used to seeing in candy and might then be excited about and accidentally ingest, that has happened in some other states with gummies and edibles. No one has been seriously hurt. I think a couple of kids have been taken to the hospital under these circumstances. It was a huge concern in New Jersey and there is that part of the bill that is meant to make sure that the edibles aren't something that would be that enticing to children.

Brian: Even though this will be legal, and it's accepted by society more than before by a lot. You don't want to make it too attractive to children like you wouldn't want to make alcohol too attractive to children. I get that that's the thing. Last question. We're going to let Effie and Brooklyn ask it, but because we're over time, for our next guest, Effie, I'm going to have to ask you to be really succinct and ask your question in 20 seconds. I know you can do it.

Effie: I'll try to squeeze. I'm talking about the lack of imagination. I'm from the Soviet Union, we couldn't imagine that there is a country where people are allowed to consume any literature or any thoughts they might have or want. Now I'm in the United States and the lack of imagination is still the same. We cannot imagine now like we couldn't imagine 12 years ago we would discuss the legalization of marijuana. Now we cannot imagine in a few years maybe in 30 years we will freely discuss legalization of all other drugs.

Brian: There you got there. I'm going to leave it there. It wasn't the most succinct asking of the question I ever heard but you got there. It was interesting context about you coming from the Soviet Union and lack of imagination. This was in the bill right. Also, legalizing psilocybin mushrooms. They couldn't come to an agreement on that. This is not in the bill that they'll pass tomorrow.

Amanda: That it wasn't legalizing this got put into that other decriminalization bill, and this is where things got a bit confusing. It was just to downgrade the penalty, so it would even be decriminalization. It was instead of a third-degree offense, a disorderly person's offense. That's six months in jail $1,000 fine compared to three to five years. That was broken off of the marijuana decriminalization bill put into its own very short small bill that will be considered tomorrow as well, separately.

Brian: That may yet pass, that decriminalization of psilocybin mushrooms. Of course, the caller puts it into very broad context, why is there a law enforcement war on drugs in the first place? Why shouldn't it be dealt with as a market and as a public health problem and an individual health problem to the extent that it becomes that for people and for society? We will see how those questions evolve over time.

What we know is New Jersey State Legislature is expected to pass a package of marijuana, decriminalization, and legalization bills tomorrow after the referendum that passed by the voters on election day. This starts the process that Amanda Hoover, reporter at NJ Advance Media covering marijuana legalization said should result in the opening of recreational dispensaries probably in about a year. Thank you, Amanda. We appreciate it.

Amanda: Thank you.

 

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