[music]

Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. For months now, New Yorkers in the media and in friend groups around the city, maybe including yours, have been arguing over the question of whether New York City is officially over. Meaning as the COVID-19 pandemic has shuttered the many cultural institutions in the city, theater, museums, nightlife. Was there even a point to living in this crowded city? Well, I can tell you based on our caller lines, which are already full, the answer is not, an unequivocal "no". The answer is unequivocal. Can I start that again? The answer is, no, New York City is not over. This call-in was inspired in part by the recent New York Times article titled Is New York City Over? These Brand New New Yorkers Don't Think So. I'm joined by the writer of that article, New York Times correspondent, Jazmine Hughes. Hey Jazmine. Welcome back to WNYC.

Jazmine: Hi Brian. I'm happy to be here.

Brian: Who'd you find moving in?

Jazmine: So many people. It was really quite surprising. We know from the department of city planning that about 150,000 people move to New York City every year, usually in the spring and the summer. I was curious about whether or not people were still coming, particularly in April and May. I asked friends, I asked on Twitter, I asked in my favorite podcasts Facebook group. I was just throwing out everything I could get, and I was so surprised by the number of people who decided to pack up their lives, move to the center of the COVID-19 pandemic in May.

One person I spoke to, this woman called Victoria. I had planned to move to New York, put everything on pause because of COVID, then she had this awful breakup, and she didn't want to be stuck in the house with this man who wasn't speaking to her anymore and his entire family. She rented a car and drove down to New York City at, I believe the end of March right when shelter-in-place had really taken hold of the city. Like you were saying, New York is the city of dreams. People have dreams slightly out of place because of COVID, but people want to get here. They're coming.

Brian: Did you hear that exchange between the landlord who can't find any tenants and the mayor's response?

Jazmine: I did. I maybe wish that the mayor had read my story because people are really out here. I spoke with a woman called Stephanie Diamond who runs the Listings Project which is a list of apartment listings, opening, sublets would have you. She said that she's received a lot of inquiries for places to stay. Like you said, a lot of people decided to leave the city temporarily subletting their apartments. It actually ends up being really great for new New Yorkers, because you don't want to slip all your stuff from the Bay Area, from Westchester would have you. You can move into a place that's relatively furnished. Just bring your clothes and your personal items, and then send for everything later on in your stay. It actually does seem like there are plenty of opportunities for people to, firstly, give up their apartments and to, secondly, fill them as well as landlords offering discounts a month off here, or paying upfront and getting a discounted rate.

Brian: All right. You want to hear some stories? Maybe you'll get enough for a sequel.

Jazmine: For a second story, let's go.

Brian: That's right. Nick in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi Nick.

Nick: Hi. How is it going?

Brian: Good. Did you just move to New York?

Nick: I did. I moved in mid-August. [unintelligible 00:03:45]

Brian: From?

Nick: I moved from San Francisco, from the Bay Area.

Brian: How come?

Nick: Well, if anything, New York is a place that I always really intended to move and in a way, I think the pandemic forced my and my partner's hands to leave in the Bay Area. We really feel like New York is one, if not the only places in the nation, that's really figuring out how to live in this "new normal", and we really want it to be a part of the rebuilding and see what new opportunities arise here. It still seems like it's a pretty exciting place.

Brian: Interesting. What's your line of work? I'm curious.

Nick: I actually work at a tech company called Blend.

Brian: From one tech center, San Francisco to another, and you chose this one?

Nick: Indeed. We actually had an office out here. The move was planned many, many months ago, but, if anything, it's working out pretty well so far.

Brian: Nick. Thanks. Welcome to New York. Nathaniel in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi Nathaniel.

Nathaniel: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Brian: Brand new New Yorker I see?

Nathaniel: Yes. Well, I lived here in about 10 years ago and I recently decided to come back because I'm doing a Ph.D. program at NYU, so we have the option to be remote. My wife moved here with our three-year-old son, and we decided to come back and see what was going on here.

Brian: Where were you?

Nathaniel: In Memphis, Tennessee.

Brian: Pretty different. You could have stayed there and done your doctoral program remotely, but you, your wife, and your child decided, I guess you decided for the child, that you would be better off here. How come?

Nathaniel: Well, we actually have family in the area in New Jersey and in Queens, so we thought that would help with our son. We had also just been moving around a lot, and we didn't want to prolong it, and with all the unpredictability of the pandemic, we thought that New York seemed like the cases had gone down. As we were leaving, cases were actually going up in Memphis and Tennessee, so we skirted the wave there. I've come back here and I'm starting to make a bit of community, so it's actually been nice.

Brian: Nathaniel, good luck. Danieli in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi Danieli.

Danieli: Hi. How are you doing?

Brian: Good. How are you doing? I see you moved last month back from Dallas.

Danieli: I did. I'm actually from New Jersey and I was living in Brooklyn before, but I went to Dallas to work at a university. Now I'm back.

Brian: What brought you back?

Danieli: A lot of things. Living alone in a pandemic, it was really difficult, so I ended up moving in with a friend who also was living alone. Also as someone who lived in the city with public transportation and relied on it, Dallas was hard because it's just so spread out, the culture is to drive everywhere, and as a disabled person, I don't drive. Coming back to the city gave me some functionality to be able to get around and do things I needed to do. It's a walkable city, which is also good for me, and it just gives me a little bit more control over my life. That's what brought me back.

Brian: How's mass transit feeling to you, safety-wise?

Danieli: I think I'm very aware of what I touch, so I carry hand sanitizer everywhere. By my door, when I come into my apartment, we have stations for that. I don't necessarily feel like it's the worst thing, but I also know I'd rather go grocery shopping early in the morning if I can versus going during peak time. I'm adjusting, but it gives me access to things versus not having it at all.

Brian: Danieli, welcome back. Thank you so much for calling. Jazmine, I'm curious what your thinking as you listened to that first set of call. There's such an array of reasons for coming back, family ties, mass transit, rather be a tech entrepreneur in New York than in San Francisco because we're dealing with the virus better in that first caller's opinion.

Jazmine: Truly the greatest city in the world. Part of me really identifies with that. I moved to New York eight years ago, back and forth for a while, but the time where I finally moved permanently was two days after Hurricane Sandy. I was 20 years old and I was like, "You can't tell me anything. I'm coming to the city." I completely understand when you're committed to something, you want to see it through. Danieli actually brings up a good point where New York can provide so much accommodation for people that you might not be able to find elsewhere.

A couple of people I spoke to in parts of California and parts of Southern United States said that people just weren't taking the virus seriously where they were living. They actually felt far more comfortable coming to New York, where unfortunately we suffered such a tremendous loss. People are actually social distancing, wearing masks, and taking it seriously.

A couple of other people I spoke with had moved in with their parents and they're like, "I want to get out of my parents' house, it doesn't matter if there's a virus in New York City. I'd much rather be living on my own, not with my parents and my dog, and watching The British Bake Off on Netflix for hours and hours and hours. I'd rather just see what I can do."

Brian: New York versus British Bake Off. We'll continue with Jazmine Hughes from the New York times and more of your calls on moving to New York or back to New York in the pandemic. 646-435-7280, right after this.

[music]

Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC with New York Times correspondent Jazmine Hughes, author of the metro section story Is New York City Over? These Brand New New Yorkers Don't Think So, as we're taking your calls if you have moved to or back to New York, during the pandemic. Sam in Queens here on WNYC. Hi, Sam.

Jazmine: Hi, Brian, how are you?

Brian: Good. How are you, is the question?

Jazmine: Great. The first time calling in and I'm actually pretty excited.

Brian: Well, then me too. Did you go away and come back?

Jazmine: Yes, actually, my wife and I left Brooklyn end of June after we both lost our jobs. I was a chef in a restaurant and she was working at The Public Theater as a costume designer.

Brian: Oh boy, neither of those are coming back. Probably The Public Theater, not for a while, and restaurants as an industry struggling so much.

Jazmine: Yes, it's pretty scary as just looking at my friends and all the possibilities. We moved to Connecticut for three months and moved in with my father. I wouldn't say it was the best experience, and we just came to a conclusion we just have to come back because we felt this was the best place for us financially for our future, and we feel comfortable here.

Brian: Sam, thank you very much. Good luck making it back in New York. Taylor in Bed–Stuy, you are on WNYC. Hi, Taylor.

Taylor: Hi, Brian, thank you for taking my call. I'm a big fan.

Brian: Thank you. You're away for 10 years, am I saying [crosstalk]

Taylor: I was an intern here in college. That was a long time ago. I always wanted to come back, and the situation that we're in provided an opportunity for me.

Brian: Which was?

Taylor: While I was working from home, then eventually not really working and stuck with my parents, like a lot of people were. I had already been thinking about moving to New York, but when several of my friends in the city put up their apartments for sublets, I was able to negotiate with one of them and move into a furnished sublet, so that I could come back to the city, which was my [crosstalk]

Brian: A furnished rent deal, just as Jazmine was saying, and reported in her story. We have time for one more. Tommy in Harlem, you're on WNYC. Hi, Tommy.

Tommy: Good, Brian. How are you, sir?

Brian: Good, how you doing?

Tommy: Very good. Thank you. I'm a bit off-topic in that, I moved my family here a few two years ago, so not pandemic tickling. We live in Harlem. I'm an attorney with my wife, we have three kids, and we have the ability to go elsewhere. We remained in New York because it is probably still the best place for us. We want to raise our children here, we have done so thus far. As two Black professionals, particularly, New York is just a better place overall. We have a critical mass of clientele that you can't find elsewhere. You don't necessarily find a critical mass of Black middle and upwardly mobile people who can be your clients. Additionally, you don't find a culture, atmosphere and an environment for installation [unintelligible 00:13:41] of the city [unintelligible 00:13:44]

Brian: I hear you. Tommy I'm going to leave it there because we're running out of time. Jazmine, you'll get the last word. Tommy brought up another whole category that I didn't even think of which is people who had the opportunity to leave during the pandemic but declined.

Jazmine: Yes. I could have left, but where would I have gone? I live here. I think that for many people, we have this really renewed sense of dedication and a fierce love of the city, especially when it's down. I think a lot of people who have the wherewithal, the safety and stability to stay chose to stay because we want to see this through. This is where we live. Then very quickly, I just wanted to say there are a bunch of people who moved up to help with the epidemic, a bunch of essential workers, especially in the medical field who ended up staying here.

Brian: We should still be thanking them every day at seven o'clock in our hearts, even if we don't at our windows. Jazmine Hughes, New York Times correspondent and author of the article Is N.Y.C. Over? These Brand New New Yorkers Don't Think So. Thanks a lot, Jazmine.

Jazmine: Thank you, Brian.

Brian: Thanks to Lisa Allison, Mary Croke, Zoe Azulay, Amina Srna, and Carl Boisrond, our producers, with Zach Gottehrer-Cohen who works on our daily podcast. Our interns this fall are Dan Girma and Erica [unintelligible 00:14:59]. Megan Ryan is the head of live radio. That's Juliana Fonda at the audio controls. Have a great weekend, everyone. I'm Brian Lehrer.

[music]

[00:15:21] [END OF AUDIO]

Copyright © 2020 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.