[music]

Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning everyone. Hope you had a great three-day weekend and got to use the 4th of July to think about our country a little bit, not just blow up fireworks till 3:00 in the morning like some people I heard out there Sunday night. Here we go, reentry into all kinds of news that will define who we are as a nation, as a democracy if we can keep it as a democracy, if we can achieve it for the near future and maybe longer. Locally absentee ballot results from the rank choice voting primary for mayor of New York and other offices are coming out today.

We'll start to talk not only about who won, but also about whether this rank choice adventure in democracy is expanding the right to vote and have your vote mean more than before like it's supposed to. Absentee ballot day will be a later topic on the show this morning, including what's being released today. With the new results announced over the weekend, that decided some big races we'll get to that. We will also meet one of the most interesting victors from primary night in New York in Buffalo. We've talked about her on the show, India Walton.

She upset the incumbent democratic mayor, Byron Brown, as a democratic socialists of America and Working Families Party back candidate. India Walton will join us, and we'll talk about what her victory in Buffalo for the democratic nomination for mayor means to New York State, the nation, and the world. We'll give the first words today to President Biden and Frederick Douglas. Before we take anything about the present as a given, we should acknowledge that President Biden gave such a different 4th of July speech than his predecessor Donald Trump did just one year ago.

You may have already forgotten what happened on the 4th of July, 2020. You could be forgiven for having that immediate amnesia. I will spare you any soundbites, but as described by the business channel CNBC at the time, "On a day meant for unity and celebration president Trump vowed to, 'Safeguard our values from enemies within, leftists, looters agitators," he said. In a 4th of July speech packed with all the grievances and combativeness of his political rallies, from Trump. "We are now in the process of defeating the radical left, the anarchists, the agitators, the looters, and the people who in many instances have absolutely no clue what they're doing. We will never allow an angry mob to tear down our statues, erase our history, indoctrinate our children."

As CNBC pointed out, he did not mention the dead, from the pandemic. Nearly 130,000 were known dead from COVID-19 in the US at that time, according to CNBC at that time. President Trump did not even mention it on the 4th of July, 2020. By way of contrast, president Biden centered the COVID recovery effort in his definition of what 4th of July patriotism should mean this year.

President Biden: Thanks to our heroic vaccine effort, we've gained the upper hand against this virus. We can live our lives, our kids can go back to school, our economy is roaring back. Don't get me wrong COVID-19 has not been vanquished. We all know powerful variants have emerged like the delta variant, but the best defense against these variants is to get vaccinated.

[applause]

My fellow Americans, this is the most patriotic thing you can do. Please, if you haven't gotten vaccinated, do it, do it now. For yourself, for your loved ones, for your community and for your country. That's how we're going to stay ahead of these variants and protect the hard won progress we've made.

Brian Lehrer: That's one clip of President Biden on the 4th. This year when Juneteenth became a federal holiday, another American independence day in a very real sense. More Americans may be thinking of American history in a more holistic way than just 4th of July, yippee. In contrast to Trump a year ago in that quote that I read warning against tearing down Confederate statues, and calling a more around the teaching of American history, the indoctrination of our children. In contrast to Trump saying those things on 4th of July a year ago, Biden said this.

President Biden: One of the great gifts of the spirit of independence, and think about this, one of the great gifts is our capacity to see ourselves whole and see ourselves honestly. What we've gotten right, what we've gotten wrong, it's a measure of the greatness of America and we are a great nation. We don't seek to bury the wrongs. We face it, we work to make it right. History tells us, when we stand together, when we unite in common cause, when we see ourselves not as Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans, then there's simply no limit to what we can achieve.

[applause]

None. Today, we see the results of the unity of purpose.

Brian Lehrer: Results in progress, perhaps. Again, President Biden on Sunday on the 4th of July, a year and a few months into the pandemic. About a year and one month into the current racial justice movement, after the police murder of George Floyd. I thought it was interesting that two publications that I came across, the Washington Post and the Route, published a full text this year of a famous Frederick Douglas speech from 1852 that most Americans have never heard of. Called What to the American Slave is Your 4th of July.

In one part of it, he said to him, to the slave, "Your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless. Your denunciation of tyrants, brass fronted impudence," guy could write, brass fronted, impudence. "Your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery. Your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings with all your religious parade and solemnity are to him mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy. A thin veil to cover up crimes, which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth, guilty of practices, more shocking and bloody than are the people of these United States at this very hour." Said Frederick Douglas in the speech on July 5th, 1852.

He wouldn't dignify on the 4th itself. The hypocrisy of a holiday raucously, unsentimentally celebrating American freedom when the institution of slavery still persisted. Maybe conditions are such this year that some of you gave more thought to things like that, this 4th of July than in previous years. Even as you also consumed a lot of food, a lot of drink. A lot of TV stories about Joey Chestnut breaking his record at the Nathan's 4th of July Hot Dog Eating Contest in Coney island by downing 76 frankfurters in 10 minutes on Sunday. Maybe the 4th of July was one thing, or the other, or both for you this year.

The president having covered the pandemic and seeing the wholeness of our history, or trying to, landed on the work ahead of him and the Congress, with climate change, the fight for more equality. As we hit the six month mark of another day, that will always be known simply by its month and day like July 4th, like September 11th, January 6th.

President Biden: Each day we're reminded, there's nothing guaranteed about our democracy. Nothing guaranteed about our way of life. We have to fight for it, defend it, earn it. Folks it's up to all of us to protect the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The right to equal justice under the law, the right to vote and have that vote counted.

[applause]

The right to breathe clean air, drink clean water, and know that our children and grandchildren will be safe on this planet for generations to come, the right to rise in the world as far as your God given talent can take you, unlimited by barriers of privilege or power.

Brian Lehrer: Privilege and power. President Biden on the 245th anniversary of the original July 4th. As here we are on this Tuesday on the one half year anniversary of January 6th. With me now PBS White House Correspondent and Washington Week host and NBC news contributor, Yamiche Alcindor. Hi Yamiche, thanks for starting us off on a holiday week. Welcome back to WNYC.

Yamiche Alcindor: Thanks so much for having me, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: How much do you think Biden had in mind? Any contrast with Donald Trump's Fourth of July grievance speech from last year, or does Biden just do what he does and the contrast is just something that other people like me might notice?

Yamiche Alcindor: When you talk to White House officials, they don't like the idea that they are constantly compared to President Trump. They say that in the President's thinking, he's not thinking, "I want to be different from President Trump." Just in who he is, he obviously is going to be someone who contrasts President Trump. When speaking to people before this speech, they were talking about the idea that the President wanted to be compassionate, he wanted to mark the day, he wanted to understand and talk to people about the fact that even though we're not past the virus that we've come through some dark days. Of course, he wanted to mark all of the different Americans who had died and who weren't at their family celebrations as the nation was starting to gather and return to some sense of normalcy.

I think in talking about it, the contrast was going to be clear, but at least in my understanding, he didn't set out to say, "I want to be completely different from President Trump." Instead, they say the reason why he ran was because he thought President Trump wasn't responsible and couldn't do this job, and as a result, he's now President.

Brian Lehrer: July 4th was supposed to be Biden's gold day for getting, was it 70% of the population vaccinated?

Yamiche Alcindor: That's right.

Brian Lehrer: How close did the country come?

Yamiche Alcindor: It came really, really close. White House officials pointed out that something like 70% of adults over the age of, I want to say it was 28, that they were vaccinated with at least one COVID-19 shot. They point to data that is true, which is that deaths have gone down, that cases have gone down, and that at some point, the President will eventually reach this 70% of adults vaccinated. They also pointed out that really the 18 to 26-year-old population is a key reason why the White House didn't reach that 70% goal. Because young people in particular, and of course, Southern states and in some places Conservatives, have been the most vaccine-hesitant groups. In particular, the White House is now focusing on the 18 to 26-year-old population, trying to get them vaccinated.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, what was on your mind this 4th of July, or what would you like to ask Yamiche Alcindor, PBS White House correspondent and Washington Week host. 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280, or tweet your thought or your question @BrianLehrer. Yamiche, I think the media commentary used to be that 70% was such an achievable goal. He didn't need to set it as something to take personal credit for, that would be grandstanding, but now, he didn't quite make it. Did he wind up setting the benchmark too high rather than low enough to achieve because he overestimated something?

Yamiche Alcindor: It's a good question, and it's one that I think I struggle with answering because I've never really subscribed to the idea that the administration is setting goals too low or too high. What I can say is that in talking to experts, the thing that really is sticking with people and is really complicating the vaccination rates in America. Is the fact that this was polarized and political from the very beginning, that you had in his predecessor, former President Trump, really downplaying the virus, not getting vaccinated in public, even though he was at the White House and got vaccinated.

Then when his predecessor got COVID-19, he then of course, returned to the White House and ripped off his mask in that infamous moment. Then there's this real reality that when you go around the country, especially the Southern states, how you see the vaccine and the virus really does in some ways, really closely tie to your political views. I think in some ways when I talk to officials, they say we have to figure out that problem. That's a really hard problem to solve because President Biden can't be the face of the message to conservatives because they're not going to receive that message, just in doing my own research and in talking to experts.

It's really getting people's pastors, getting people's doctors, getting people's families and friends to tell them that this vaccine is something that you need. That's going to really be the main difference. I think there is this sense in the White House that they have this challenge, and they're not quite sure exactly how to meet it when it comes to dealing with vaccine hesitation around the country.

Brian Lehrer: Out of that whole, pretty interesting, I thought, speech that the President gave on July 4th, that's why we played three extended excerpts of it. The one quote that jumped out for a lot of news headlines was that he defined getting vaccinated as an act of patriotism. We played that part. You know what I think about? I read that a survey shows many of those not getting vaccinated believe the delta variant is being exaggerated. Yamiche, that's so consistent with the main Trump message during the pandemic, that it was all being exaggerated.

Now, we have 600,000 plus Americans dead. I think you're covering Biden, not ex-presidents, [chuckles] but do you happen to know if Trump, who was the originator of Operation Warp Speed with a framework that it was his vaccine program, not masks or social distancing, that was going to save us from this. Has Trump, after he pushed vaccine development so centrally, been saying anything pro-vaccine in his own July 4th week public appearances?

Yamiche Alcindor: You mentioned that I do cover President Biden and not former presidents. That being said, President Trump has been talking about the vaccine in positive ways, and he has encouraged people to get the vaccine. The issue is that former President Trump, he politicized this to the point where even people who are followers of him in focus groups say that they're not moved by the idea that now-former President Trump wants to say, "Yes, you should get vaccinated." That it was really the way that he started this conversation saying the virus was going to disappear. Saying that it was being inflated, saying the Democrats in particular, were talking about this pandemic as a way to politically hurt him.

Now, he's really got a base of people who don't really believe that this virus, that it's in some ways as serious as it really is, and that has caused some people to decide that they don't want to get the vaccine. I should say that there's a really well-known conservative pollster, Frank Luntz, who is doing this work and asking conservatives, "What would it take for you to be moved to take the vaccine?" Most of them said that it wasn't President Trump, that it would be their doctor, or someone who was really close to them. That's the person that would make the difference with vaccines and getting them to do it.

Brian Lehrer: The Washington Post has a headline today, noting 99% of COVID deaths are now unvaccinated people, and I see Biden's going to give another COVID speech today. Do you know what news he's hoping to make?

Yamiche Alcindor: I've been asking the White House about that today, and I know at least from my understanding that he's going to be trying to mark where we are as a country in terms of where we are with vaccines. What it means that the nation is turning a corner but still has this delta variant. In some ways, trying to dig out whether or not there's going to be any announcements on new initiatives. We know that the President and a number of White House officials are going to be traveling in the days to come and weeks to come to really try to get the message out that people need to get vaccinated. Especially, as I said, focusing on younger Americans.

I think that the thing that I'm most interested in, is how are they going to deal with Southern states and conservatives, in particular? Because when you talk to people in Rural Montana, Valley, Montana, which is some of the work that I've been doing. The people tell you that they just don't feel like they need the vaccine, that they either had COVID and got over it, or that they think that it's overblown, or they're in the conspiracy theory realm where they think the vaccine is going to install some sort of tracker in them. There's all wild theories about the vaccine apart from people just saying, "I don't really think I need it."

Brian Lehrer: How's the leadership out there if you've been reporting on a place like Rural Montana? Are the Republican leaders casting shade on the vaccine, either explicitly or through more subtle omission means, or anything like that?

Yamiche Alcindor: Based on my reporting, I've been talking to some local officials, and I should say some local pastors, who have been trying to get their congregations and people that they know vaccinated. When I talk to people who are experts on how you break through in the vaccine message, a lot of this comes down to conservative media. You have people like Tucker Carlson and others who are really openly questioning the vaccine, or openly questioning the virus. That I think is doing the real damage when you talk to experts. In some ways, yes, local officials, they're on the same page in saying, "Yes, you should get vaccinated," but there are people that then go home and watch Fox News and their television sets tell them, "Hey, it's not that big of a deal. You don't have to get vaccinated."

Brian Lehrer: Spencer in Berkeley Heights, you're on WNYC with Yamiche Alcindor from PBS. Hi, Spencer.

Spencer: Good morning, Brian. Thank you for taking my call.

Brian Lehrer: Sure.

Spencer: I wanted to say with regards to your comparison between former President Trump, and let me tell you I love saying that phrase, and current President Biden. I didn't necessarily feel it was just a difference in personality or even the subject material that each of them brought to their respective speeches. It was also target audiences for both speeches. President Trump was almost certainly continuing his fear, uncertainty, and doubt campaign towards his base. Towards individuals that watch Fox News 24/7 and had no interest in trying to appeal to the center left. No even remote effort of coming together as a country.

Whereas President Biden, not necessarily four years later, but certainly a year later, having to deal with a country now, trying to get out of pandemic state, trying to get people to get vaccinated. He's doing his best to appeal to all Americans, especially those who haven't gotten vaccinated, because of the fact that they're at risk. He's expressing concern for people who are beyond his base. If you frame it from the target audience, it's as stark as night and day.

I believe to your point earlier the idea of being-Or maybe was even a Biden, who said, "When we can treat one another as Americans, there's no limit to what we can achieve." It's Biden, who's going ahead and channeling Ben Franklin statement, "We either all hang together or we all hang separately." It's Trump who's basically doing everything in his power to be chicken little saying the sky is falling. He'll do everything he can to throw something up in the air so that when his followers look up, they see something coming down.

Brian Lehrer: Right. Unless it was coming from him, in which case the sky is rising. Spencer, thank you for that interesting political analysis. Yamiche, we can put that in pure political analysis terms if we want to, that as Trump was running for reelection, by attempting to appeal solely to his base and taking the gamble. That they could turn out even more people than they did in 2016, who would be like his base, which they did, only Biden turned out even more people on the other side. Biden's path does seem to be more just in pure political analysis terms to be trying to get more center-right Americans to think he's doing a good job and the Democrats in Congress are doing a good job, not a pure turnout strategy. Which is controversial even within the Democratic Party where progressives feel like they're being ignored too much.

Yamiche Alcindor: When I talk to White House officials about this, they say two things. The first is that President Biden ran on this idea that he was going to be someone who worked across the aisle, who was going to be bipartisan. Remember there were-- To me it felt like at one point 200 Democrats running, but it was something like two dozen Democrats running. He was the person who was consistently saying like, yes, I'm going to have progressive ideas, but I'm also going to be reaching [unintelligible 00:22:52] and try to get back to some of the things that I did as a Senator. The White House would say, and talking to officials, they would say, yes, he's trying to reach across the aisle.

The second thing that Democrats would tell you of course, is what you just alluded to. Which is that there are progressives who are saying, "Okay, but what about us? What about the things that we want? What about climate change? Why aren't you getting us more money for that in this bipartisan infrastructure deal? Why isn't there more money for things like clean water and other other issues?" There is this I think growing frustration on the progressive side, there was a big protest this other day. Where people were calling President Biden a coward on climate.

That said, when you talk to progressive, they still understand that the president has continuously nodded to this idea that he is with the Democratic party, that he wants some of the same ideals. He has passed these massive bills and insight into all of these trillion dollar bills. When you look at the American Recovery Act or what he's trying to do now with American Family's Plan. Even though President Biden has really pursued this idea of bipartisanship, even when you look at infrastructure, they're doing a two-track system.

He's not just saying, okay, I'm going to do this $1.2 trillion deal with the Republicans, I'm going to then pursue this, probably what might end up being $3 to $4 trillion deal with Democrats.

In some ways it's a balancing act that the White House is continuously doing. There is this real sense because Biden has been in office and been in government for so long that President Biden has a real sense of what he believes is the right thing to do.

Brian Lehrer: When we come back from a break, I have a caller who wants to ask you, if you think there are implications for the national Democratic Party, from the results such as they are so far from the New York City mayoral primary. I know you did a story on that for PBS. We'll continue with Yamiche Alcindor and you'll call 646-435-7280, and you'll tweet at @BrianLehrer, right after this.

[music]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC on the 6th of July on this Monday kind of Tuesday that comes after a three-day weekend. We're talking Tuesday morning politics with Yamiche Alcindor. White House correspondent for PBS, host of Washington Week on PBS, and an NBC News and MSNBC contributor. Chris in the East Village you are on WNYC. Hi Chris.

Chris: Hi Brian. Hi Yamiche. Long-time watcher of Washington Week, I really support your work over at PBS. I want to get your commentary on some of the goings on recently in New York City, as you know we had a Democratic primary for mayor. Eric Adams was as you know really ahead in the first round, and now Kathryn Garcia has basically caught up right to his shoulder.

Eric Adams representing the traditional working class minority of the Democratic Party combine with Kathryn Garcia representing more white moderates. This has been the Democratic Coalition. Do you see these sort of features for going forward, no matter what the results are? Because of the snafu with the Board of Election, can people trust each other. What are your thoughts on the goings on of this?

Brian Lehrer: Chris, thank you. I should say Maya Wiley is also right on the heels of Eric Adams. We don't know, we may find out momentarily. We don't know what time they're going to release these absentee ballots. Wiley might pass Garcia to be in that final rank choice show down number one and two with with Eric Adams. We don't know yet. I think either way, even if Wiley comes in second to the caller's point Yamiche, we see that the more "moderate candidates." Of course we're talking about New York city Democrats so the line between moderate and conservative, it's not the same spectrum as we're talking about nationally.

Adams plus Garcia plus Yang plus even Ray McGuire and a couple of others, the most progressive contingent did not win a majority of votes that we can say. To the caller's point and the implications for the National Democratic Party?

Yamiche Alcindor: Well, first I'd say, thanks Chris for supporting our work at PBS. I think it's a great question. I think that it's a question that a lot of Democrats that I talked to are mulling over. Talking to some Democratic operatives nationally here in DC, there is this feeling that New York City could be a microcosm for what happens next and the rest of the country. Looking at places like Virginia, where Terry McAuliffe was a pretty moderate Democrat, just won the nomination for the Democratic governorship there. Louisiana has also had some races that were moderate Democrats have done better than progressive Democrats. I think there is a sense that someone like Eric Adams, who really ran against the defund the police stance of Democrats. Which of course is not where President Biden is because he said over and over again, that he doesn't believe in defund the police.

That being said, I think there is this feeling that New York City could be a window into how Democrats end up realigning their party. That progressive Democrats who have at times been the loudest on Twitter and have the loudest social media following, that they might not be indicative of where actual democratic voters are. Especially as we're seeing a spike in crime around the country. Even though when you talk to experts, they're not exactly sure why this crime is spiking, but when you see that you go into neighborhoods where people want to see more police. There's this real friction going on between the defund the police crowd and the crowd that says we want something to be different with the police, but not for them to be gone.

Brian Lehrer: Congress is off this week, but some big Biden in Congress things are in the middle of being negotiated. Did I see he's going to speak in Illinois to help sell the human infrastructure portion of his infrastructure belts?

Yamiche Alcindor: Yes. That's part of, I think this next phase that Biden has to really balance. Which is that now he's really trying to go around the country and other White House officials are now going around the country to talk about what human infrastructure means. Why expanding the definition of infrastructure, passwords and bridges. Why that is the right thing to do in 2021. This is where I think Progressive's where they might get frustrated with President Biden. They also see President Biden saying things like healthcare workers should get more money, and that should be infrastructure. That communities that have historically been torn apart by highways as well, often African-American and communities of color, that we should be paying and investing back into those communities to write some of the wrongs.

That is where you see President Biden most align with progressive Democrats who have criticized him for not being progressive enough. I think that we're going to see in the next few weeks here, a real push for this two track system and it's on shaky ground. It's bipartisanship, but it's on really shaky ground. Getting one bill through Congress is hard, getting two bills on dual tracks in tandem is really, really hard.

Brian Lehrer: What's the game plan there now with a hard infrastructure compromise on the table, and the confusion last week. Over whether Biden would sign that compromise alone, or only if the Democratic majority also gave him the human infrastructure piece as a one party bill, since the Republicans are not interested? I guess there's so many aspects of this we could talk about. What I'm curious about is can you explain who argues against universal pre-K, and elder care funding at this point, the hearts of the human infrastructure pieces. Republicans in Congress may talk about the dollar amount, but around Republican America based on your reporting and other people you talk to, why are these things the most in demand government services that we're falling short on, and this should be extremely popular?

Yamiche Alcindor: Well, that is the argument of the White House, the argument of the White House is Republicans are arguing against helping the very people that need the help the most. Often the people that will benefit the most are in red states, they're in poor communities, not just communities of color, but rural white communities as well. There's this feeling though among the Republicans that they can argue that expanding the definition of infrastructure just becomes a Democratic-- They call it a Democratic wish-list. It becomes a wasteful spending of money.

You don't hear Republicans saying, we don't want universal pre K, or we don't want to pay our home health aid workers more money. What you hear them saying is the Democrats just want to spend a lot of money and are not being smart about how they spend their money. Of course, you're hearing Democrats say just the opposite and say, we're actually trying to invest in the infrastructure of America and that includes working class Americans who are doing so many of the jobs that are critical.

In the middle of a pandemic that is still ongoing, rhe Biden administration is arguing, we just learned how much infrastructure needs to be expanded. There are grocery store workers, there are all these people who we relied on for the last year and a half to keep our society functioning, we should be taking care of them. Republicans though say it cost too much money.

Brian Lehrer: We only have a minute left, but I'm going to sneak in one more call that just came in, because it's not every day, we get a call from Ticonderoga, New York. Here on this 4th of July week. Fort Ticonderoga in the Adirondacks, one of the revolutionary era outposts, not to mention and one of the places that I love the most in the world, the Adirondacks. Bill in Ticonderoga, you're on WNYC and we've got about 30 seconds for you I'm sorry to say.

Bill: Well, my question is a news question actually. The right wing in this country calls itself conservative, but doesn't want to conserve anything. They want to rip everything down and build up a new system, basically, along the lines of classical fascism. Hitler called himself a socialist, but nobody bought that, and I guess the question is, why does the news media, both on PBS and on NPR, why do they fall for this business of these people being conservative, and calling them conservative when they don't want to conserve anything? They're fascists.

Brian Lehrer: Bill let me ask you up there, if you live up there, were Elise Stefanik, is the representative now, and where the trend seems to be toward Trumpism. What are your neighbors telling you?

Bill: My neighbors are telling me that democracy doesn't work, and that we need to get rid of it. That's basically what they're saying. What they're saying is the same thing that Mussolini said, that we need a strong man who can make a lot of noise and push the rest of the world around. That's what they telling me.

Brian Lehrer: Bill, thank you so much for your call, please call us again and Yamiche, I know you got to go, but do you want to address his question head on briefly? How do we land on the word conservative, compared to what conservative meant in the past?

Yamiche Alcindor: I think it's an interesting question, we call them conservative because that's what they call themselves, and in some ways as news media we we try to be respectful. If people call themselves Republicans, and that's what they identify as, that's what we call them as. I will say thinking about what he's hearing from his neighbors and this idea of a strong man, the idea of a strong personality. Having just come back from traveling with President Biden in Europe, I saw the conservative backlash to Biden, and it was if he was being too open, I guess he was he was being too nice to our allies. He was wanting to collaborate with them too much. They wanted to see the president elbowing people out of the way as the former president did.

I think there is a sense among conservatives that they like a brash personality, they like the idea of someone who is not political. Who is in some ways, breaking all sorts of norms and being I would say, frankly, rude in a lot of ways. Trump supporters have described President Trump in that way to me, understanding that he was brash and rude, and they liked that idea. That to me is interesting that President Biden is not that person. He is someone who is compassionate, he's someone who has really built himself off as an empathizer in chief, who can consult. Who can also, of course, say that he took two hours straight with President Putin, and told him all of the different ways that he could possibly not want to see the infrastructure of Russia targeted by ransomware.

He also has this Biden nest that he can bring onto the world stage, President Biden, if he wants to do that as well. I think it's just really interesting to see how personalities and basis what they want to see and what the caller was hearing in his neighborhood. I think overall, we are constrained by language, Tony Morrison always said sometimes we don't have the language to describe what we're seeing, so we I think in the media, use the language that we have.

Brian Lehrer: Yamiche thanks for so much time today after the three day weekend. We really appreciate it. Keep it up on TV okay?

Yamiche Alcindor: All right. Thanks so much.

 

 

Copyright © 2021 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.