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Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, senior reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian today. On today's show, WNYC and Gothamist's housing reporter, David Brand, talks about a new project, tracking evictions across the city which are on the rise again after a COVID era moratorium expired. We'll have New York Times finance reporter, Stacy Cowley, to take your calls on student loan repayment due to start again in October.

We'll end the show with Sandra Fox, an author of the book The Jews of Summer, who will talk about a phenomenon known as camp sickness, those powerful feelings of missing camp when it's over for the summer. Parents who picked up kids last week, you know what I'm talking about.

To start things off, we turn to the first official Republican debate of the 2024 presidential cycle. This Wednesday, at least nine candidates qualified for the televised debate on Fox News after meeting polling and donor thresholds, but as of right now, only eight are expected to meet on that Milwaukee debate stage. I think you know the one who has opted out. Even though the Republican National Committee has not put together a formal list of who will be attending, the participating candidates have to sign a loyalty pledge to support whoever the Republican nominee ultimately ends up being.

The front runner of the race, former President Donald Trump, has not done so and plans on some counterprogramming with a one-on-one interview with former Fox News host, Tucker Carlson, at the same time as the debate. New polling data from FiveThirtyEight puts Trump at roughly 54% with his closest competitors way behind. Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, at just 14%, and entrepreneur, Vivek Ramaswamy, at over 8%.

Also this week in Trump news, the former President is due to surrender to law enforcement in Fulton County, Georgia, on Friday at noon. He, along with 18 of his co-defendants, including Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, and others are expected for processing on the 41-count indictment handed down just last week. Joining me now to round up the latest is USA Today, Washington bureau chief, Susan Page, author of Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi and the Lessons of Power. Susan, welcome back to WNYC.

Susan Page: Hey, Brigid. It's great to be back with you again.

Brigid Bergin: Let's get into this debate preview and some of the other big issues for Republicans this cycle. Let's talk about the frontrunner of this race who will not be attending the debate. Trump posted yesterday on Truth Social that he will not be attending "The debates," plural. Susan, can you put this into some historical context? How often have presidential candidates just opted out of the debates entirely?

Susan Page: Well, candidates in the past have sometimes opted out of debates. That happened with George Bush. Ronald Reagan opted out of an early debate in 1980. It's not unprecedented. It is a little dangerous because it enables the other candidates to say you're afraid to debate or you're afraid to be on stage. They can make fun of them. We'll see some of that, I suspect, on Wednesday from people like Chris Christie, but Trump is so far ahead. We have never had a candidate for a nomination have this kind of consistent and huge lead at this point in the process and then lose the nomination. I think that's what makes Donald Trump feel pretty confident he can afford not to be on that debate stage.

Brigid Bergin: As I mentioned, he is opting instead, as The New York Times reports, to post a pre-taped interview with Tucker Carlson that night. What is Trump trying to signal here?

Susan Page: Well, I think Trump would like to get higher ratings than the actual debate gets. We'll see if that's possible with a prerecorded interview that you post on a website, but I think he wants to leave the impression that his Republican rivals are of so little importance that no one needs to watch the debate. The fact is, when we're watching the debate, and of course, I'm going to watch it, I'm sure you will too, we're going to be watching to see what they say about Donald Trump. Even though he's not there on stage, he is present in other ways.

Brigid Bergin: To your point, it does seem like a very risky decision to skip the debate entirely. Then this interview itself, it's going to be posted on an online platform where potentially some of even his supporters might not view it, might not go and watch it. What are the risks for him in doing this?

Susan Page: The risk would be bigger if there was a clear alternative. There was a time months ago when that Florida Governor, Ron DeSantis, looked like he might be an actual credible alternative to Donald Trump but he's still 40 points below him in national polls. He's trailing him in the polls that we've seen in Iowa, New Hampshire. His prospects have faded. His standing has gotten lower, not higher as this campaign, and the nervousness of big donors about DeSantis has risen.

This debate in a way is candidates trying to become the alternative to Trump because at the moment there isn't really one. If there was somebody really nipping at his heels. If there was somebody who was even within 10 points of Donald Trump in a key state, I think he would feel more of a compunction to show up. Donald Trump is so unpredictable that there have long been those who have said he'll show up anyway but that looks increasingly unlikely.

Brigid Bergin: Well, listeners, we can take a few of your questions or comments ahead of the first Republican debate this Wednesday. Anyone listening who is registered to vote in the Republican primaries, which candidates will you be keeping the closest eye on and which policy issues do you think will be most defining in the race? Will there be policy issues, I should say, that will be defining this race, or will the elephant in the room that we've been talking about define the race? Give us a call now at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. You can also text us at that number. Again, 212-433-9692.

Susan, you mentioned Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, he was pulling around 20% until recently. Those numbers have been slipping and for the most part, he has been trying to create favor among Trump's supporters while attempting to distinguish himself from the field, but on Saturday during an interview with the Florida Standard, he referred to some of Trump's supporters as "Listless vessels." Let's take a listen to that.

Ron DeSantis: A movement can't be about the personality of one individual. The movement has got to be about what are you trying to achieve on behalf of the American people. That's got to be based in principle because if you're not rooted in principle, if all we are is listless vessels that's just supposed to follow whatever happens to come down the pike on Truth Social every morning, that's not going to be a durable movement.

Brigid Bergin: Susan, the Trump campaign may have taken this clip a little bit out of context and run with it, saying that DeSantis was aiming at all Trump supporters. Of course, the governor's press secretary has said the comment was aimed at Trump and his congressional allies, but what are you hearing here? How is DeSantis trying to walk this fine line of talking to Trump's supporters and making his case, and is it any bit working?

Susan Page: The reality is it's a hard thing to do because the Republican Party has been remade in Donald Trump's image, so you do not want to turn off all of Donald Trump's voters. If you're going to depose him as the nominee, there needs to be some reason you're doing that. That's been hard for Ron DeSantis and most of the others to figure out exactly how you make that argument. This was, I think, particularly maladroit.

For one thing, Trump followers in Congress and elsewhere are not listless vessels. You get lots of descriptions, positive and negative you can use for them. Listless vessels is not really one of them. The second problem with the comment that Governor DeSantis made is that he seems to be blaming the followers as opposed to the candidate and you do not want to attack voters when you're running for office.

Brigid Bergin: It has a real deplorables echo to it. I can see it on T-shirts and signs from other Trump supporters making fun of DeSantis. His super pack recently posted hundreds of pages of debate, prep advice online. In those notes, he was supposed to "Take a sledgehammer to Ramaswamy" and "Defend Donald Trump" when Chris Christie inevitably attacks him on the debate stage, among other things.

What did you glean from those documents? What, if anything, do you think it says about this stage in the GOP primaries? Just for folks who might not understand why these documents emerged publicly on the Internet, can you talk a little bit about why they might have been made available the way they were?

Susan Page: Right. This is so interesting. All the candidates have these debate memos. All the candidates who have credible campaigns, have memos like this prepared for them. They're doing practice debates. This is a big moment. This may be the last moment for some of them to make a big impression. It's not surprising there's a debate memo. It is surprising that it says things like, take a sledgehammer to Vivek Ramaswamy. Really, that's your point? and to defend Donald Trump, the guy who is by far the front-runner? That seems a little counterintuitive. There's also some advice there that just seemed peculiar. It said he should show emotion when he talks about his children and his wife.

You would think that for a guy who's run for office successfully several times, he wouldn't need advice like that. The reason this came out is because this was a memo written not by his campaign, but by independent expenditure group that is forbidden to directly contact and have conversations with this campaign. The way that these groups often communicate is to post things in public so that the campaign and everybody else can see them. Now, they try to often post it in a place so obscure that only the campaign might find them, but in this case, somebody else found them, we don't know exactly who, and tipped off The New York Times and they got this very delicious scoop.

Brigid Bergin: [laughs] Oh, it is. There are lots of nuggets in there that are worth reading. You are listening to The Brian Lehrer Show-- Go ahead.

Susan Page: Brigid, I would just say if you talk about your family and during the show, you should show some emotion while you're doing it.

Brigid Bergin: [laughs] You are listening to The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, filling in for Brian today, and I am joined by Washington bureau chief for USA Today, Susan Page, previewing the Republican debate. Daniel from Scotch Plains, New Jersey, welcome to WNYC.

Daniel: Thanks for putting me on. I am a registered independent, and I just switched my party affiliation because I've never voted in a primary, so I switched to become a Republican. I'm very proud to say I will vote for whoever is second after Trump.

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Brigid Bergin: Daniel, is-- Go ahead.

Daniel: My defining issue, currently, Christie looks great because he is not going to give Trump a free pass if he's elected. He is not going to let him continue to be a treasonous person against the United States government.

Brigid Bergin: Daniel, thank you so much for your call. Thanks for listening and call us again. Susan, I missed your debate prep suggestion to me in your last comment there, but I got it. It took me a minute as we were listening to Daniel. I appreciate that. I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm on the debate stage. Let's talk for a minute about this recent Fox News poll with Ramaswamy rising in the polls, closing that gap between himself and DeSantis from 17 percentage points to 5, coming in third place at this obviously extremely early stage in the race. For listeners who may not be familiar, how is Ramaswamy positioning himself in the race? What kind of candidate is he, and how is he changing this field, or at least trying to?

Susan Page: Ramaswamy's been an interesting candidate. I think that a lot of us didn't take him particularly seriously when he announced, but he's proved to be a really agile campaigner in a way that, for instance, DeSantis is not. In a way, he does what some of the other candidates do in that he hugs Trump. He praises Trump. He does not criticize Trump. He has managed to have a message that says, "Trump was great, I want to do more. Trump was great, I want to move on to the next step." He offers youth. He's only 38 years old, the youngest in the field. He's rich. He's already loaned his campaign $15 million. That's not something all the candidates are in a position to do.

He has an interesting life story. His parents immigrated here from India. He is very conservative and he has campaigned a lot against wokeism, whatever that means to you. He says the climate change agenda is a hoax. He's got a tough hard right message, but he comes across with this useful vigor and he doesn't get as tied up in knots in talking about Trump as some of the other candidates have done.

Brigid Bergin: We are previewing the upcoming Republican debate on Wednesday. Let's go to John in The Bronx. John, welcome to WNYC.

John: Yes, thank you so much for picking my call. As a matter of fact, I am a registered Democrat that I'm switching to the Republican Party just because of Chris Christie. I want to vote for him. He's such a strong person on his feet. He debate wisely. He talk intelligently, and he have really attracted me towards him and towards the Republican Party. I think he's a very good alternative to Trump than DeSantis. DeSantis is declining because of his policies in Florida.

Brigid Bergin: John, what--

John: You don't want him to carry that to the national level.

Brigid Bergin: John, what is it about-

John: I'm not going to--

Brigid Bergin: -former Governor Christie, besides his strength and presentation? Is there something about him that really appeals to you, and what was the moment?

John: Yes, what is the special thing about Chris Christie is that he was the first Republican candidate to give up and then give his support to Trump when Trump was campaigning in 2016. Then he was the very person who was bold enough to say, "Hey, Mr. Trump, what you are doing is wrong." Then he just distanced himself from him. He's the same person who is telling the whole world, "Listen, this guy has been indicted for the fourth time and he's not a credible candidate to become president again for United States."

For his hand, I see sincerity in Chris Christie. I see genuineness in his culturalism, and I see State mindset in him. That is why I'm going for Chris Christie. For him. I'm switching camp to Republican Party and voting for Chris Christie.

Brigid Bergin: John, thank you so much for that call. Susan, interesting there. We've had in our incredibly unscientific callers, two for Chris Christie so far. Any sense from you that he has the ability to do exactly what John laid out there, which is to take that initial run for president back in 2016 when I think there was that famous meme of him standing right behind President Trump, and then be able to capitalize on the fact that he has now become someone who is active vocally calling out the former president for his conduct in office. Is that a strategy that you see as potentially one that could help Christie make some gains in the polls?

Susan Page: Chris Christie would love to be-- I hope he's listening to this show. He would be very pleased to hear about his support. I think it's unlikely that Chris Christie is going to be the Republican nominee because he is taking on Trump in a very frontal and pugnacious way. He's a skilled debater, a former prosecutor. You can see that when he is on a debate stage. I expect him to be really effective at mixing things up on the debate stage. He couldn't do well in a state like New Hampshire that has a lot of independent-minded voters, no big campaign going on in the Democratic side. Maybe there'll be a lot of crossover voters voting on the Republican side.

Chris Christie could be a good fit. The popular governor of New Hampshire, Chris Sununu, is also a figure who's very critical of Trump. Once you get out of New Hampshire, I think it is hard to make the case that Christie gets the nomination. You can make the case that Christie has the ability to affect the nomination just by his performance in these debates.

Brigid Bergin: We are talking about the upcoming Republican debate, the first of the season on Wednesday night with USA Today Washington bureau chief, Susan Page. We need to take a short break. We'll be back right after this with more of your calls here on WNYC, The Brian Lehrer Show.

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Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin filling in for Brian today, and we are previewing the upcoming Republican presidential debate on Wednesday night. I'm speaking with Susan Page, USA Today Washington bureau chief and author of Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi and the Lessons of Power, and we are hearing your calls. What are you going to be watching for in the debate? Is there a candidate who has stood out to you so far?

We're hearing a lot of love for Chris Christie so far this morning. Let's talk about what the polls are saying, Susan. Right now, polls can be tricky, especially this early in the race with so many candidates competing. It's such a big field. There's one candidate who's clearly dominating. How do you, as a political journalist, use these numbers so far out from the primaries at this point?

Susan Page: Well, the thing to remember about polls is they do not tell you what will happen tomorrow. Tomorrow is a new day. There can be news developments. There can be catastrophes. Things can change. They certainly tell you about what is happening today. One of the things we look for in polls are, number one, they give us a lot of information about what voters care about, what they're thinking about, the issues that matter to them. It also tells us something about the consistency and strength of a candidate's position.

That's one of the reasons that Donald Trump seems to be in such a dominant position here. His polling numbers as he has faced now four criminal indictments, have improved. He has a bigger lead now than he did before he was indicted for the first time there in a New York courtroom. That is something I think would've been hard for us to predict with any confidence. It does make us think that even in the face of turning himself in, we think probably on Friday for the latest of these criminal charges, this one in Atlanta, Georgia, even in the face of perhaps a trial underway before the campaign, before the next election is held, even that is unlikely to shake his position as the likely Republican nominee.

Brigid Bergin: Let's go to Frank in Glen Cove. Frank, welcome to WNYC.

Frank: Thank you. Thank you for taking my phone call. I appreciate this. I think one of the big things that needs to be recognized here is that, how could President Trump's numbers be up with all these indictments? Well, I think the answer everyone is looking for is that we don't believe that he's a criminal. We don't believe that the 2020 election was justified. We believe there's enough evidence, including the 2000 Mules documentary showing all the data points from the cellphones of all the fake mail-in ballots that were caught on videotape, people dropping in multiple ballots into multiple drop boxes.

The evidence is there. No one chose to see it. That's a crime within itself. I think that people feel that President Trump did not get his fair term. He didn't get a second term that was rightfully his. Who really believes Biden got 81 million votes?

Brigid Bergin: Frank, thank you so much for that call. Susan, I think there's a lot that I think many people would dispute in some of Frank's comments there in terms of some of the facts. I think what we did hear in that is probably the appeal that a lot of the Trump campaign and certainly former President Trump himself is trying to make to voters that, that is what you might expect to hear from someone who is still ardently supporting the former president. Any reaction to that call?

Susan Page: Absolutely. We know that most Republican voters agree with Frank. They do not think Joe Biden was legitimately elected president. They don't trust the news media to cover fairly what's happening. They don't trust the justice system to be fair in dealing with Donald Trump. I do think that we have to note that the allegation that Joe Biden did not legitimately win the election has been debunked. It's been debunked in courtrooms, in a series of key states. It's been debunked in investigations including by Republican officials in states like Georgia and Arizona.

In the record in courts is also-- has debunked every allegation of significant voter fraud of the kind of voter fraud that would cost and flip a state from Joe Biden to Donald Trump. However, it is a powerful belief by most Republicans. I think it is one of the big threats actually, to our democracy. I think we have big challenges to the American democracy. I guess this is my 12th presidential campaign I've covered, and I have more concerns myself about the future of our democracy than I've had in the previous 11.

Brigid Bergin: It's a very chilling time in many ways. Let's talk a little bit about how Trump is trying to make his case beyond simply some of what we heard there from our last caller and what we've just talked about, in the ways that he has already pivoted to attacking President Joe Biden as if this was already a general election. Here's a little clip from one of his recent political ads.

Recorded Voice: Trump made us safer, wealthier, and more secure. Prices were low, groceries affordable. We were beating China, jobs coming home. Our border was secure, but Joe Biden's America, wages down, prices soaring, family struggling. Only Trump is ready to get our economy, our country back on track.

Brigid Bergin: Oof. Susan, let's talk about how Trump is trying to position himself against President Biden in terms of policy, so to speak. Is it any really different than how he was trying to compare himself during the last election?

Susan Page: Well, those are some of the same issues. Immigration, of course, was his original issue since he came down the escalator in 2015 to announce his campaign. It continues to be an issue that really animates his voters. You heard him talk about China and the economy. Now, one problem is the economy at the moment under Joe Biden looks pretty good. We've had two years of really historic job growth. We've seen inflation, which was definitely a big problem. We've seen it come down. We now have the possibility of what they call a soft landing where we can get inflation under control without tipping the economy into a recession.

I think the economic argument gets a little harder to make, especially if people begin to actually see in their own lives what we're seeing in the economic data. You notice one thing, there's some issues he chose not to talk about. For instance, we don't hear former President Trump talk about the issue of abortion. That is an issue that we've seen be very powerful in a series of elections, including the last-- in a series of elections in a way that is perilous for Republicans since the Roe v. Wade access to abortion protections were overturned by the Supreme Court.

I think what we are hearing is a preview of what Donald Trump will try to say about Joe Biden that he's not been a good steward of the economy, that he's a weaklier, and that everything was better when Donald Trump was in the White House.

Brigid Bergin: I think one of the points that you raised there, I'm curious, in terms of the abortion issue, we have heard some of the other candidates talk about how they support a 15-week national ban. Trump's stance on that has been much more non-committal. Do you think that is an issue that will come up much on Wednesday night, particularly given that Trump is not there?

Susan Page: I hope so because I think it's an important issue that Americans care about those on both sides of the issue. Trump is not promised to back a national abortion ban at 15 weeks. Neither is DeSantis, even though DeSantis signed a six-week abortion ban in Florida. Even Vivek Ramaswamy and Chris Christie say there shouldn't be a national abortion ban.

There's nervousness in Republican ranks. While the Republican base is strongly anti-abortion, a lot of swing voters, especially women, have found this to be an issue that has convinced them to vote for Democrats in the last few elections. I think most analysts think that the issue of abortion was a big factor in costing Republicans that red wave they expected that the last midterm election and didn't see.

Brigid Bergin: Let's talk about some of the other issues that may come up on Wednesday night. The issue of China, the GOP candidates are pretty unanimous in their stance that China poses the greatest risk to the United States. The question for the candidates is how and to what extent to sever the intertwined economic ties between the two countries. How do you expect that issue and the issue of China to come up on the debate stage on Wednesday night?

Susan Page: As you just said, I think the opposition to China, the warnings about China, are pretty unanimous across the Republican ranks. Actually, we've had President Biden take a tough stance toward China since taking office as well. That's not an issue that really divides them. If you're thinking about foreign policy, the issue that divides Republicans is aid to Ukraine.

Because we do have some Republicans, including 70 Republican members of the House, who voted to cut off additional US aid to Ukraine while other Republicans, including Chris Christie for one, and Mike Pence for another, have stood in support of additional US military and economic aid to Ukraine. That's an issue that might be more interesting to hear about on Wednesday night.

Brigid Bergin: Another issue that is likely to come up, of course, is immigration. Trump's stance on immigration was at one point seen as pretty right-wing fringe politics, but many of the candidates have seemed to align themselves with calls for not only securing the border but also adding military force, even ending birthright citizenship. Both DeSantis and Ramaswamy, among others, have put forth those two policies. Can you talk a little bit about the outsized impact Trump has had on immigration policies of the right and of this field of candidates?

Susan Page: Oh, it's remarkable what we hear about immigration now. Ending birthright citizenship, some legal analysts say that's not constitutional. The use of violence against migrants trying to cross the border, using military force against them, putting more of those buoys that Texas has put in the Rio Grande. We've seen migrants caught in barbed wire. We've seen some deaths results. Immigration is an issue that has inflamed the Republican ranks. It's one that seems to resonate with a lot of Republican voters and we've really seen these candidates respond to that.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to go to one more caller, Paul in Central Valley, New York. Paul, thanks for calling The Brian Lehrer Show.

Paul: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I find it ironic listening to your earlier caller, Frank, say that Trump deserved a second term. A person only gets a second term if they're legally elected to that office. Frankly, I don't really think we should be listening to a Republican debate if these candidates can't even acknowledge that Joe Biden legally won the 2020 election.

Brigid Bergin: Paul, thanks so much for your call. For setting up my next question, Susan, which is, Trump is likely not to be at these debates, but he has several investigations into his conduct, which have resulted in four indictments so far. How likely do you think those investigations are to come up? How do you think the candidates are going to handle conversations about them, and will they become lines of attack in this GOP Primary?

Susan Page: Well, I'm quite sure they'll come up Wednesday night, and I think that we won't hear one message. Mike Pence has said, "Joe Biden was legitimately elected, so is Chris Christie," but as Paul, I think, understands, it's a question they hate to get because even if they think Biden was legitimately elected, it is something that puts him at odds with a lot of Republican voters and at odds, of course, with Donald Trump, who insisted he was the one who was elected.

It's yet another one of those tough calls that Donald Trump has now presented for the GOP. We had a session at USA Today with Vivek Ramaswamy. I asked him that question, and he dodged it. In our forum, he didn't say that Biden wasn't legitimately elected, but he also wouldn't say that he was, and I finally gave up.

Brigid Bergin: Well, let's look beyond Wednesday a little bit to the end of the week. As I mentioned at the top, Trump and his 18 co-defendants are expected to show up in Atlanta this Friday for processing on the Fulton County indictment. What are you expecting for the end of this week? What's that going to look like?

Susan Page: Oh man, just because it's the fourth time a former president has found himself being bailed out on criminal charges of misconduct doesn't mean it should feel familiar to us. In a way, it does feel familiar to us, but this is unprecedented and extraordinary. I'll tell you one other thing that's been unprecedented and extraordinary and, to me, surprising, the Iowa poll came out yesterday, the famous gold standard Iowa poll.

They were in the field in Iowa when the Georgia indictments were announced, so they could compare the people they surveyed before the indictment with the people they surveyed after the indictment. Donald Trump got a bump from the multi-count racketeering indictment in Georgia, and that I just find very hard to understand. Actually, your caller, Frank from Glen Cove, articulated the reasons that that probably happened, that from Trump supporters, this is a sign of martyrdom, not of criminality.

Brigid Bergin: To that point, speaking of things that are unprecedented, at this point the timing of these trials intersects directly with major milestones in the 2024 primary and general election. What are you going to be watching for when it comes to how these legal proceedings unfold? It sounds like to me from what you were seeing, what you're reporting, is a real risk for the Biden campaign that this may, in fact, help Trump's campaign assuming he is the candidate.

Susan Page: Hey, it helps him with Republicans. It doesn't help them with swing voters. I think that the peril for Trump comes when he gets into a general election. He has moderate Republicans and independent voters. Those voters in the middle that you need to actually win a presidential election, those voters have a very different attitude, I think, about the legal peril he's in.

One thing that we also know from covering campaigns, voters care more about their lives than they do about the candidates' lives. They care more about what you're going to do for me? What are you going to do about the things that really affect me and my family in our daily lives, the things that we see as our trouble, our challenges? A candidate who talks mostly about his legal peril, that has not traditionally been really a recipe for victory.

Brigid Bergin: Well, we will leave it there for now. A lot to watch this week on Wednesday and again on Friday. My guest has been Susan Page, USA Today Washington bureau chief and the author of Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi and the Lessons of Power. Susan, thank you so much for joining me.

Susan Page: Hey, thank you, Brigid.

Brigid Bergin: I'm Brigid Bergin from WNYC and Gothamist newsroom. Coming up next, WNYC and Gothamist's housing reporter, David Brand, talks about the new project tracking evictions across New York City, which are on the rise again after a moratorium during the COVID Health Emergency expired. Stick around.

 

 

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