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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC, and yes, the Andrew Cuomo situation is not the only big news today. We're also covering Mayor de Blasio's first in the nation vaccine or negative COVID test mandate for doing almost anything indoors in a public space, eating in a restaurant, seeing a play, going to the gym, and more. We'll talk about that and other issues now with the chairman of the City Council Health Committee, Mark Levine from Upper Manhattan, who also, we almost buried the lead, won the democratic primary for Manhattan Borough President, which basically means Manhattan listeners, here is your next borough president and city council's most prominent voice on the pandemic.

Councilman Levine, welcome back to WNYC, and congratulations on your victory in the primary.

Mark Levine: Oh, thank you so much, Brian. I'm really just so grateful for this opportunity to serve Manhattanites at this difficult time.

Brian: Let's start with COVID, the vaccine mandate for many indoor activities as chair of the council's health committee, do you support it?

Mark: Absolutely. Delta's coming at us like a freight train, Brian. Cases are rising fast, not just that, hospitalizations are up two, almost three times just in the last few weeks. We have to act quickly. That means we have to aggressively push vaccination. We have to make indoor places safer. I also believe we need to start with booster shots. We have to tighten up mask-wearing, but this measure, which the mayor announced yesterday is critical, both because places like restaurants and gyms tend to be very high risk.

You take your mask off when you're eating, you tend to huff and puff when you're exercising, and so Delta spreads more easily, but also because places around the world, which have applied these policies have seen a dramatic increase in the number of people who are seeking their vaccines, and I expect that we'll see an increase here in New York, something we desperately need because vaccination has dropped dramatically since its peak a few months ago. I'm really relieved that the city is taking this measure, and the fact that president Biden has endorsed it, I think indicates that this could set a new national standard.

Brian: Is it just proof of a first dose, do I understand correctly, and if so, is that enough, in your opinion, shouldn't people be fully vacced if they're going to go this route at all?

Mark: Yes. The rule is that a single vaccine dose, even one that you got the same day is accepted. Personally, I probably would have rather a fully vaccinated standard, but I think there's also the argument that you just want to get people starting their vaccination process, and if they do that, it's a victory. I support this measure as a huge step forward, but you're right to clarify exactly what the standard is.

Brian: Does it apply to entering government buildings? I keep hearing restaurants, performance spaces and gyms. Does it apply like, will you have to be vaccinated or COVID negative now to go into a public school or pay a parking ticket or get a marriage license?

Mark: No, it does not. The idea was that this applies in places where the activities are discretionary, not someplace like a supermarket, where you have to go. There's risk in those locations too, which we should talk about, but the idea is that these are entertainment options or recreational options and that you want to incentivize people to get their vaccine so they can do them, and so entering a government building to do official business, obviously, that's not discretionary so you have to have different rules there.

Brian: What did you want to add about supermarkets?

Mark: Well, look, there is risk in any indoor space where you have people who are vaccinated and unvaccinated together, where there's no screening for testing, et cetera. That includes, yes, supermarket stores, subway cars, et cetera. It's why people need to wear masks in those locations to protect people who are vulnerable, to protect themselves, but this mandate, again, for indoor dining and indoor gyms, is in locations where because it's discretionary, it's fair for us to set a higher standard.

Brian: Movie theaters, not just live performance spaces, movie theaters in or out, do you know?

Mark: I don't believe they are covered. Live entertainment, yes. Those are venues where at a minimum, I would advise people to wear their masks throughout the movie.

Brian: Why that distinction, do you think?

Mark: I actually don't know, Brian. If it doesn't apply to movie theaters, I would hope it would.

Brian: It sounds like there are multiple ways to provide proof of vaccination. You can show your vaccine card that you got, or you can utilize one of two different apps, a city app that's going to be new, and the state Excelsior pass that already exists. Do you understand, because I don't, why the city created its own app when the state's Excelsior Pass already does exist and seems to work pretty well?

Mark: Well, there are shortcomings with the state app. First of all, if you have any discrepancies in the spelling of your name or your birth date in the official records of the state vaccine database, then you're not going to be able to validate, and people have been very frustrated with that. There is a process to correct it, but it's very difficult. The way Excelsior works is that it's just taking some of your basic information and then it's comparing it to the state immunization database. You don't even need your vaccination card. All you need is to know the date of your vaccination.

It's considered, I think, a higher standard, more fraud-proof, et cetera. Also, if you didn't get your vaccine in New York state, you're not in the database so that's a problem for Excelsior. The idea of the city app--

Brian: Go ahead. You go.

Mark: The city app is simply taking a picture of your vaccine card or your test results, and it's a standardized format that you can then show to a person entering an establishment. It doesn't read against the central database, so you don't have to worry about one letter of your name being off. Also, people who are concerned about privacy, maybe an undocumented immigrant, might feel more comfortable with the City app. There are advantages.

It's going to be easier to engage in fraud with the City app, but it's also possible with the state app as well. The idea is, though, that this system is much better than nothing. By the way, you can still use your paper CDC card for people who don't want to deal with the apps. Actually, the Excelsior Pass, you don't need a cell phone, some people don't know this. You can just go to the website and print out a QR code. Even someone who doesn't have a smartphone can still use Excelsior and just carry the paper around with them.

Brian: Yes, and they may need a printer. Listeners, if you have a printer, that's a photocopier, and you don't use the web and you don't use apps, you can maybe at least make a photocopy if you have that technology accessible to you, so that you have a few copies of your physical vaccine card in case you lose it. Just a thought about that. We can take phone calls on this or anything related for City Council Health Committee Chair, Mark Levine, who's also now the democratic nominee, which means sure win because I don't think a Republican is going to win this election.

We don't have to hold that out as too big a mystery for Manhattan Borough president to succeed Gale Brewer. 646 435 7280, 646 435 7280, or tweet your question or comment @BrianLehrer. Let's stay on this vaccine mandate. How about enforcement? Unless the city is posting some sort of COVID officer at each of the over 20,000 restaurants in Manhattan, for example, it seems like restaurants will be solely responsible for enforcing this new mandate themselves. We've all seen videos of abhorrent behavior on behalf of customers when asked to put their masks on and there are stories too about how restaurants staffers are already being pushed to their limits by rude diners. Are we asking too much of our restaurant proprietors?

Mark: Well, this ultimately, I believe, will make restaurants safer. It will protect restaurant staff, let's not forget. I think it will be good for business because people will feel very comfortable dining in a setting where they know they're well protected. This is not about aggressive enforcement. I don't expect city personnel to go restaurant to restaurant levying fines. This is about setting an expectation about changing social norms.

Much like has happened with masking on subways, where there's not a lot of aggressive enforcement. I think people know that you're obligated to wear a mask on the subway, but because of the social norm, most people do. We want to create that expectation in these spaces. Actually, many restaurants are already moving in this direction, even though the law doesn't take in effect until September. I think because they feel like it's good for business or because customers are demanding it. I do expect that will be the case that this will become something people expect when they walk into a restaurant and so the proprietors will want to comply.

Brian: You said earlier that you're for booster shots. Let me tell you something that's in the news today, maybe you've seen it. The Director General of the World Health Organization says that they're calling for a moratorium on boosters until at least the end of September to enable at least 10% of the population of every country to be vaccinated, and you know the disparities around the world that exist. What's your reaction to that?

Mark: This is a major ethical dilemma. The fact that billions around the world have not yet been vaccinated is just unacceptable. The supply chain in America is such that we're seeing doses expire right now in some parts of the country. Folks I've talked to think that we could at least begin to vaccinate most vulnerable people without it meaningfully disrupting the supply chain to parts of the world where vaccination is behind. That might look like allowing vaccination for people who are immunocomp-- a third shot, a booster shot for people who are immunocompromised or over 65 and also dealing with second shots for Johnson & Johnson.

I think there's a way we can balance the moral imperative of shifting resources to parts of the world, which are being underserved, but also ensuring people who are vulnerable in the US get that booster shot.

Brian: Jenny, in the financial district, lower Manhattan you're on WNYC with city council health committee chair and the likely next Borough president, Mark Levine. Hi, Jenny?

Jenny: Hi, Brian, hi, council member Levine, my question is about Daycare in New York and about the vaccine mandate for Daycare workers and teachers. I know that the vaccine mandate, if I understand it, affects teachers from K through 12, but the vaccination with a testing mandate, but what about for our youngest children who will first be vaccinated last, and also, second, has the hardest time masking? We know that for COVID protection, we need layers of protection, we need masking, we need vaccination for adults, we need ventilation. What about vaccination for Daycare workers? Is there a plan for New York city's department of health to enforce a vaccination or a testing regimen for Daycare teachers?

Brian: Thank you, Jenny. Councilman.

Mark: Thank you so much, Jenny, for the excellent question. I think that workers in any high-risk setting, whether it'd be a hospital, a nursing home, a classroom or a childcare venue need to be vaccinated, period. That absolutely must include childcare workers because young people can't get vaccinated and as you said, they can't wear masks. I believe that they are currently under the vaccine or get tested requirement, which is a step in the right direction. Again, for those highly sensitive jobs, I would say it needs to be vaccinated unless you have a medical exemption.

Brian: This brings up one of the Mayor's other recent vaccine declarations. The news on all this is moving so quickly, we might have been talking about this today as our primary topic, were it not for all these other things that have happened since, that city workers, including healthcare workers, it started with healthcare workers, have to be vaccinated to work in person and especially if they're public facing. A, does that apply to all public school teachers now? B, what would it take for it to apply to the people who Jenny is talking about, who I guess are private sector Daycare workers?

Mark: The standard for all New York city employees right now, if they're already on the job, is get tested weekly if you're not vaccinated. For new hires, it's vaccination, period. For some categories of state workers in healthcare, for example, have to be vaccinated. There are some private hospitals which are pushing forth a vaccination only option. Again, for city workers, it's vaccination or get tested and for Child care workers who are city employees, which is a growing number, it would be the same standards as in the public schools. I actually am not sure about childcare workers who work for nonprofits. I would support a vaccination standard, but I'm actually not sure what the current rules for that workforce is.

Brian: George, in the nomad section of Manhattan. I don't think George nomad means that he doesn't live anywhere and he goes from place to place. I think this is one of those real estate neighborhood names, where is nomad again, George?

George: Nomad is north of Madison Square Park. There was a Historic District Nomad Hotel, et -cetera. Good morning, likely Borough president Levine. One of the biggest functions of the Borough president's office is land use. I'm calling specifically about landmarks and landmarks preservation commission. Mayor de Blasio uses the landmarks commission for political tools in various ways while historic buildings are being demolished as we speak. For example, in Nomad, the neighborhood is starting to look post-war London with vast block long vacant lots where historic buildings that the landmarks commission refused to designate are being demolished.

This (soon to be gone) Cuomo's plan to demolish the neighborhood around Penn station, which is separate, which also the landmarks commission refuses to designate the Hotel Pennsylvania among other significant buildings. How will your office defend the Landmarks Law, defend historic built heritage where generates tourism and where people want to live and work as opposed to rapid development. For example, could we talk about a tax benefit for keeping historic buildings that are somehow designated as historic, but the Landmarks Commission won't change, for example, and other ideas I'd love to talk to you about [crosstalk]

Brian: George, let me ask you one follow-up question. How much is your concern for the historic nature of some of these buildings? How much is your concern that your neighborhood is going to be plagued by too much additional density?

George: Not at all. I'm not even opposed to super tolls and I'm on various presentation boards and I've said this publicly. I don't oppose development if something significant is not coming down. In my neighborhood, insignificant buildings are being demolished all the time and I don't welcome them, but I'm not opposing them. I'll just stop there.

Brian: Thank you for clarifying that. Mark Levine?

Mark: Thank you. Is this by chance, George [unintelligible 00:17:40] Maybe not. Sorry, Brian, I thought I recognized the voice, but George, I very much appreciate your comments. I am as passionate as you are about preserving the historic legacy of our built environment. One of the things I'm proudest of in my [unintelligible 00:18:00] city council is creation of the Morningside Heights Historic District, which has preserved 115 buildings in perpetuity. I appreciate the balance that you offered in your comments that of course we have to continue to grow as a city. We have a desperate shortage of affordable housing. We need the right balance that preserves our historic legacy, but allows us to create the affordable housing we desperately needed. That's really neat.

I'll say one more thing about historic preservation. There's been an incredible imbalance in the kinds of properties and neighborhoods that we have been landmarking where overwhelmingly that's taking place in wealthier, whiter neighborhoods. We have really underused the tools of landmarking in places like uptown Manhattan and other communities of color, there's one property we're seeking to preserve in Washington Heights Riverside Drive, 857 Riverside Drive property that had an important role in the underground railroad and it's been a real fight. I feel like if that property was downtown, it probably would have been preserved a long time ago. I'm also fighting for equity in this critical land use tool.

Brian: George, thank you for your call. This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 [unintelligible 00:19:31] We are in New York and New Jersey, Public Radio, a few more minutes with Mark Levine, who is the city council Health Committee Chair, and the likely incoming Manhattan Borough president after he won the Democratic Primary. Why do you want to be Manhattan Borough president? What's good about that job? What do you hope to do? Do they have any power, these Borough presidents anymore?

Mark: Yes. It's an incredibly important job at any time. I think even more so now in the middle of this crisis. I'm fighting for Manhattan to come back, not to recreate exactly 2019 because there was a lot that was wrong with 2019 in Manhattan and New York City, but for us to come back stronger, healthier, and more just by navigating through this public health crisis, which we're still going to be fighting come January, I'm afraid, and to address the deep underlying issues, the profound inequality, particularly in healthcare, that is so exacerbated this pandemic, to focus on affordability as I mentioned, the crisis of affordable housing, to protect vulnerable tenants ahead of what could be an unprecedented avalanche of evictions once the moratorium is lifted.

Of course, we need to extend that moratorium nationally and in New York State, but we have to make sure that every single tenant has an attorney if they're taken into housing court. This has been an issue I've fought for years on, we passed right to counsel for tenants in housing court here in New York City. I'm really proud of that accomplishment. My partner in that effort, by the way, Brian, is the amazing council member Vanessa Gibson from the Bronx, who you had on recently because she's going to be the next Bronx borough president.

Brian: That's right.

Mark: I'm fighting to make Manhattan a global leader in the fight against climate change, both by reducing greenhouse gases and by hardening our infrastructure to prepare for the climate change that's already here. Finally, Brian, I hope that this love affair that the city has had with outdoor life in the pandemic really becomes a renaissance of public space with greater investments in parks and change on our streets and sidewalks and our rooftop so they become places where everyone can enjoy public life safely. This is a lot but Manhattan in New York City has come back from every crisis in our history, and we've come back different. We've almost always come back better and that's the vision I'm working for in Manhattan.

Brian: Here's a change in our streets caller, I think, Marybeth in Manhattan, you're on WNYC with the likely next Borough president Mark Levine. Hi, Marybeth.

Marybeth: Hello, Brian. You know I love your show. [chuckles]

Brian: Thank you.

Marybeth: Mark, I have also really appreciated you because I've worked with you on safe streets issues and as a co-founder of Families for Safe Streets. I want to ask you if you support the 25 by 25 initiative that transportation alternatives has put forth because it's right up the alley with what you were just talking about. This is about saving lives. Families for safe streets are all people who have lost a loved one to traffic violence as I did 15 years ago this summer.

My husband Dr. Carl Henry Nacht was killed while riding his bicycle with me because of a failure to yield. We have had the first half of a year be the most deadliest this year for traffic deaths since Mayor de Blasio took office and the initiative of taking 25% of what is now dominated by cars, traffic and turning it into usable space for cycling, for pedestrian plazas, for open streets. Is this something that you, like many others, are willing to get behind and make happen?

Mark: Well, Marybeth, first, let me thank you for the way you've channeled your grief into activism and leadership and what you have helped build with Families for Safe Streets has changed New York City and saved lives and I'm just so grateful for you and for the movement. I absolutely support this goal of dedicating 25% of our street space to more creative uses. There are so many challenges that we can solve by reimagining the use of street space from the problem of mountains of trash bags in front of buildings where we could have sealed containers on the streets next to curbs that would help to prevent rat infestations that would just create more space on the sidewalks.

We've had a huge problem with deliveries, especially internet-related deliveries. We could use some of that curb space to solve those problems. Outdoor dining is a great example of a creative use. It needs some tweaks now to make it work permanently but it's been a resounding success, no doubt. Let's make our streets spaces that are safe for pedestrians, for everybody, people who are riding bicycles, people who are mobility impaired, maybe using a wheelchair or a walker, let's make them engines for community building and healthy outdoor life. It's going to be one of my top priorities as Borough president.

Brian: Marybeth, thank you for your call. Well, I'm actually out of time. Who did you endorse in the Mayoral primary? I never saw it in your case.

Mark: Well, at the end, I did not endorse in the primary but I was really proud to stand with an incredible coalition of colleagues on Monday, endorsing Eric Adams to be our next mayor. I think it's absolutely critical that he win big in November to have a mandate to lead during this difficult time.

Brian: Is he too much of a centrist for you in any ways? Do you see any likely points of friction at the policy level, assuming you're both elected?

Mark: Well, Jerry Nadler said something really eloquent at the rally on Monday, which is that Democrats, we like to fight and argue over policy and personalities in primaries, and then we come together. We need to come together now behind Eric Adams, who needs to win a big mandate, who I think will be an excellent mayor, and who we all want to succeed for the good of the city.

Brian: That's not a yes or a no--

Mark: Look, I'm pretty aggressive on tenants' rights. I am pretty active on questions of justice in policing. I share the Borough president, future mayor's passion for health and for the importance of diet as a driver for beating disease and for addressing the underlying conditions that led to inequality in COVID, something he and I have worked on closely and will continue to. Many more points of agreement.

Look, the job of Borough presidents is to support the mayor when the goals of the Borough align with what's coming out of City Hall, but also, the job of the Borough president is to stand up for their Borough. Sometimes that means pushing back against the mayor. That's the balance you want and certainly the balance I will strike, if I'm lucky enough to win in November.

Brian: New York City Council health committee chair and Manhattan Borough President Democratic nominee Mark Levine, thank you so much.

Mark: Thank you so much, Brian. It's been a pleasure.

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