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Speaker: Listener-supported WNYC Studios.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. It's been six weeks of counting, but we finally have a victor in a contentious New York City congressional primary in the South Bronx. 32-year-old city councilman, drumroll, Ritchie Torres has emerged as the Democratic primary winner in that 12-way race for a soon-to-be open seat in the deep-blue 15th district being vacated by Congressman José Serrano who's retiring. Since it is such a deep-blue district, whoever wins the primary is almost certainly going to win in November.

It looks like it's going to be Congressman Ritchie Torres. No longer city councilman Richie Torres identifies as Afro-Latino. He'd most likely be one of the first two openly gay or Latino members of Congress alongside Mondaire Jones, who also recently won his primary in Westchester and Rockland and came on the show. Councilmember Torres, I'm not going to call you congressman-elect yet because you're not until November, welcome back to WNYC.

Richie Torres: It's a pleasure to be with you.

Brian Congratulations. What's the first thing you want to do in Congress if you get there?

Ritchie: Well, for me, the greatest challenge confronting the country is the crushing cost of housing, health care, and higher education, its bankrupting families and businesses. The main manifestation of the affordability crisis here in New York City is the housing crisis. More than half the residents in the South Bronx pay more than half their income toward their rent, and that's before you factor in the bare necessities of life like food and transportation, utilities and prescription drugs. We need to expand the Section 8 program so that all Americans in need have access to a housing voucher which would cap rent at 30% of income and protect against displacement and gentrification.

We need to reinvest and revitalize our public housing stock which has $40 billion worth of capital needs. I feel like we have a historic opportunity not only to rebuild public housing in the same form but to reinvent and reimagine public housing as the greenest city in America. Imagine public housing with rooftop gardens and reskinning and solar panels and community-based health centers. I feel there's an opportunity to govern boldly and the challenges required.

Brian: Generalizing from that, do you see yourself as entering that Green New Deal caucus in Congress? There was a time where environmental issues were over here, and it was largely White people who were identified with them. Social justice issues were over there and they were largely along race in class lines. Now, the whole thing is merged with the Green New Deal. Do you see it that way and do you see that as one of your political homes?

Ritchie: Look, I agree that we now view a whole host of public policy questions rightly through the prism of systemic racism. We're living in an age of heightened racial consciousness. I'm supportive of the Green New Deal because it represents a vision for fundamentally restructuring the American economy around renewable energy. We have to move away from fossil fuels and we have to fight catastrophic climate change. What our country needs is a fundamental investment on the scale of FDR's new deal or Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. It would kill multiple birds with one stone.

It would enable us to recover from an economic depression in the midst of COVID. It would create a new generation of green jobs. It would modernize our infrastructure. It would address long-term unemployment in places like the South Bronx. I think out of crisis comes an opportunity for a fundamental renewal of America.

Brian: On the election, it took six weeks, I don't have to tell you, from primary day on June 23rd to count the ballots and have you declared the official winner, was there an issue with mail-in absentee voting that backs up in any way what President Trump keeps going out there and saying which is that it's going to be a disaster if there's mass mail-in voting for president in November, and putting aside the issue that he keeps trying to raise as a fraud because there hasn't been much fraud in mail-in ballot at all in the history of it in the country?

What is more likely a problem is that if you get a very close state, like you had a very close congressional district primary, then maybe it's going to take six weeks just to count the ballots to figure out who won in Michigan or who won in Pennsylvania or whatever it is. Are you concerned about that based on your own experience?

Ritchie: I am concerned about the administration of an election during COVID-19, but the president has no credibility. I worry that some of the hyperbolic rhetoric about the integrity of New York City's elections plays into the hands of Donald Trump who would love nothing more than to delegitimize vote by mail. There is a difference between administering an election imperfectly as we did here in New York city and rigging an election. There is no evidence of rigging an election or fraud. This is the first time New York City has undertaken universal vote by mail, which is a massive undertaking. Whenever you're experimenting with something new, there's bound to be growing pains. The reality is, of the board of elections, it's dysfunctional, it's chronically understaffed and under-resourced.

There needs to be a greater infusion of resources to see to it that the elections are administered more smoothly. It's unacceptable that I had to wait six weeks to find out the outcome of my election.

Brian: You identify as Afro-Latino, but you noted in an op-ed for The Washington Post in July that if elected, you'd have to "Pick a side, so to speak," when it comes to joining either the Congressional Black Caucus or the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. In fact, you wrote, "The wall of separation between the CBC and the CHC ignores the realities of racial identity, which feels especially tone-deaf in the present moment," from your Washington post-op-ed. Can you elaborate on that?

Ritchie: Sure. In Congress, there's a tradition that prohibits membership in both the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and the Congressional Black Caucus. Under the tradition, you can either be Black or Latino but never both. In the real world, you can be both. Afro-Latinos like myself do exist and we should never be forced to choose between two identities that are equally important to us. In the op-ed, I respectfully called on Congress to update the caucus rules, the caucus traditions to reflect the complexity and intersectionality of identity in the real world. I'm cautiously optimistic that some progress is going to be made on that front.

Brian: Are there other caucuses or committees that you're particularly interested in joining in Congress?

Ritchie: Housing is my central focus. The committee that has jurisdiction over housing is financial services. It has jurisdiction over HUD, which is the housing agency of the federal government. That would be my preference as far as committees go.

Brian: What do you think then of President Trump saying this week that he might sign an executive order extending eviction protection during COVID at the federal level? That's not the kind of thing you expect to be coming out of President Trump with his politics and not to mention that he's a real estate developer. [chuckles] Do you think that that's real and what do you think the federal government should be doing about that? We usually talk about eviction protection on the state level and local level.

Ritchie: Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and Donald Trump is an especially broken clock, but keep in mind that a federal extension would only affect the federally subsidized part of the housing stock. Most of the housing stock is unsubsidized by the federal government and so they would need to be an extension at the local and state level to bring relief to a greater share of the tenant population here in New York city.

Brian: I know there are a lot of people in your district who have Section 8 housing vouchers. That's a federal program that helps people live in private sector housing. That would be covered. People like that would be covered with eviction protection? It certainly would apply to project-based Section 8 where the whole building is federally subsidized. If you have a privately owned and operated building where some of the tenants are Section 8 voucher holders but not all of them, it's not clear to me whether the moratorium would apply there, but I honestly don't know the answer to that question.

Brian: We'll continue and finish up in a minute with Richie Torres, city councilmember who, it looks like, is now headed to Congress from the Bronx. Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC with a few more minutes with city councilmember Ritchie Torres Torres from the Bronx who has just been declared the winner of the 12-person congressional primary in that district. Since the Bronx hasn't elected a republican- and I'd have to go back and look how long that was- he is likely headed to Congress after the November election. City councilmember Ritchie Torres Torres, now likely to become congressman, Richie Torres, call or two in our remaining time, Linda in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Linda.

Linda: Good morning. How are you? I'd like to give congratulations to the soon-to-be congressman. I am a longtime 30-year landlord, Black landlord, small landlord in this size, we have 20 units. What I'd like to remind the soon-to-be congressman is that many of the people who are currently renting in Bed-Stuy will be forced out. It's not only a question of controlling rent, it's also a question of tenants being able to earn a decent wage in this city.

Brian: Councilman? Talk to landlord Linda.

Ritchie: I agree with you. The affordability crisis is not only about restricting rent, it's about enhancing incomes and wages, but that's why we need an infusion of funding from the federal government, investments and infrastructure investments in local state governments so that we can stimulate the economy and create jobs in the midst of the deepest recession since the Great Depression. I advocate for Section 8 expansion because it's helpful not only to tenants but also to landlords. It provides a stable funding stream for the operation of properties, but it also ensures that tenants pay no more than 30% of their income toward their rent to ensure real affordability.

Brian: Linda, thank you and please call us again. I have a real estate question for you. I saw that you put an op-ed in the Daily News on Monday along with Queens City Councilman Donovan Richards who won his primary for a new job. He's going to be the Queens, or I guess that was at election, not even just the primary, he is going to be the Queens borough president now.

The two of you wrote, "Each of us was elected to be a responsible steward of the public good, not a feudal lord who gets to arbitrarily rule over public land as though it was a personal fiefdom." I guess your point is that local city councilmembers generally get veto power over rezonings or developing projects or jobs coming to a district. If people in the district don't want it, you don't think that should be the case?

Ritchie: I support a revision of member deference. Member deference should be a voice but never a veto. It's often said that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and yet somehow, in the New York City Council, we've convinced ourselves that absolute power in the context of land use is a virtue. Everything in life requires checks and balances, and member deference is no exception.

Brian: What's a good example of this? Because the one that comes to my mind is Amazon coming to Long Island City, which the mayor and the governor thought would be good overall for the region because it would bring tens of thousands of jobs, but people in the area, a number of LI state representatives in the area said, "No, this is going to be bad for my neighborhood. I'm saying no." Is that a good example, or what's a good example?

Ritchie: I would draw a distinction between surely local projects like an affordable housing development that would create 300 units. That kind of project should command the highest standard of member deference, but when you have a project like Industry City that would create 20,000 jobs that would generate $100 million a year in revenue, that is too massive a project to leave to the discretion of one member. We are a city council of 51 members, not one member. All 51 members should have a role in carefully considering the merits of a project as massive as Amazon or the expansion of Industry City.

Whatever we might decide, we all should be engaged in the deliberative process of the city council.

Brian: Well, congratulations on winning your primary and therefore, almost certainly going to Congress next January. I'll tell you, in political journalism circles that I'm in, people used to say, "That Ritchie Torres, he's a rising star. We think he's going to be mayor before too long." [chuckles] It seems like you set your sights on national issues and representing your district in that way instead and now, you've won. Congratulations. I'm sure you'll make an interesting member of Congress and we look forward to having you on in that role many times.

Ritchie: Thank you for the kind words, Brian. Take care.

Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

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