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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We started interviewing candidates who want to be the next New York City mayor and this is not premature. Remember Mayor de Blasio is term-limited out after next year and the mayoral primary will be in June. It's just six months away, and of course in Blue, New York, the Democratic primary is probably, though not definitely, the deciding race. With me now is city council member, Carlos Menchaca, who represents areas, including Sunset Park, Borough Park, and Red Hook. He's become a steady critic of Mayor de Blasio from the left, so that's here how he would change direction.

He is officially in the race. Councilman, always good to have you on. Welcome back to WNYC.

Carlos Menchaca: Hey Brian, buenos dias.

Brian: As a starting point for people who don't know you yet, how accurate would it be to say you're trying to run the way de Blasio did in 2013 when he labeled himself the most progressive candidate in the race?

Carlos: Well, Brian, I think that part of what I want everyone to know is that last seven years in my city council career I've been rooted deeply in community. Unlike de Blasio, I was and continuing to be a critic in a way that roots all the new ideas that I want to bring as mayor with community, and that's what I want to talk about in this campaign. There are so many ideas that have yet to make it into the administration that can solve problems for our neighborhoods. That's what I want to talk about with you this morning.

Brian: Okay. We'll get to a lot of those details. Are you declining to put that in a left-right context, progressive to moderate context.

Carlos: Oh yes. If you don't know me right now I am an incredibly left public servant. Those are the things that are rooted in our community right now, as we think about how we shift away from the status quo. I am progressive, I'm in the progressive caucus and I want to keep pushing these new ideas that I think are going to solve a lot of our problems.

Brian: Go ahead. I'll give you kind of an open mic to say what your top line signature policies might be.

Carlos: Well, the first thing I want to talk about is the economy and our recovery. What I want everyone to understand is that we can not have an economic recovery without economic justice. So many of the things that we've been pushing in the city council are rooted in that. We've been talking about a public bank without much fanfare and excitement for the administration to build a public bank so we can bring public funding, public resources for the public good. I'm thinking about affordable housing.

I'm thinking about the universal basic income idea that I'm about to introduce into the city council to bring real relief for New Yorkers, especially New Yorkers, like immigrants who have gotten nothing from the federal government. This is one of the big pillars of my campaign. The other thing that was really rooted in the conversation in Sunset Park was around a municipal green new deal. This is going to allow for the city of New York to pump in incredible capital to build out this green future. A lot of the bills that we passed in the council and the state has done their job as well, need investment, public investment. That's going to be jobs that are going to come directly to our local communities.

Brian: You mentioned the situation in Red Hook. A lot of people don't know you were in the news recently and on the show at the time for opposing and basically succeeding in killing the Industry City development project as it was proposed for the Brooklyn waterfront and like the ill-fated Amazon deal for Queens, you saw a conflict between thousands of new well-paying jobs and the affordability and quality of life in the neighborhood that you represent. Is that an accurate way to depict it?

Carlos: Well, I'm going to confront a couple of pieces of how you laid it out, Brian. What happened in Sunset Park around Industry City was how government is supposed to work. The community and I came together and did our homework. We analyzed everything that was in front of us, really without a lot of support from the city of New York. What we found was that the jobs that Industry City was going to bring to the neighborhood were not for the local residents. It was going to create displacement and gentrification.

What instead happened is that community organizations like UPROSE and other organizations that have been really thinking about what a neighborhood like Sunset Park needs is something different. We confronted it and it was Industry City that stepped away from the table and they pulled their application. That was a real victory that I think is being felt across the city. That's how government is supposed to work. We are representatives of communities and communities have been thinking and fighting against terrible rezonings for a long time now, that has to change.

That requires resources so that we can really empower communities to make a decision because the fallacy here Brian, this was the last thing I'm going to confront is that communities don't want development. We want development. We want to work with unions to ensure that our communities are getting access to those jobs, but that requires leadership that has been a failure for this administration.

Brian: How do you go forward with that in a way that satisfies everybody? That is if bringing a lot of jobs and a lot of housing development also can be done in a negative way that pushes up the cost of living, especially the cost of housing in the area, for example. How do you bring lots of good jobs while minimizing gentrification, which of course exacerbates inequality, while still attracting the investors in the private sector who want to bring those companies, Amazon, Industry City companies whatever, or those housing developments?

I think this has been a big challenge for Mayor de Blasio that he's been frustrated by, even though his housing program is a big success. He's come on the show many times and said, "Look, if I could just spend public money to create only affordable housing in New York for the next 10 years at the scale that it's needed, I would do it, but there isn't enough money so we have to attract private developers and private developers need enough market-rate housing to make it worth their while." How do you thread that needle?

Carlos: Well, one, I think the mayor's argument is not only weak. It's just disingenuous. We have the ability to ramp up our capital spending and reprioritize what we're already spending for the most vulnerable people. Brian, this question is really connected to every question that you would ask me, we start with the community first. They have to be front and center about how we think about these things. The unions are waking up to that, they've been in concert with REBNY and developers and the mayor has acquiesced to that.

Brian: REBNY is the Real Estate Board of New York [unintelligible 00:07:55] industry.

Carlos: Yes. That's the developer industries. They have a lot of power in the city. It moves a lot of policy. I think what we're starting to see is that unions are beginning to see that power shifting to the neighborhoods through elections. This is why this election is going to be a really important one to send a continued message that we start with our neighborhoods. Okay. So let's start with the community. Let me bring you into Sunset Park right now. We're in the middle of a EULAR process for a small development of affordable housing.

One of the things that the developer keeps talking about is that there's no city funding and they're deepening their commitment to affordability. This is through the MIH program, the Mandatory Inclusionary Housing program that allows for developers to get more bulk, more height for an exchange of affordability. Well, what the community is saying is that we want more affordability because of the displacement. Now we go back to the city, the city has yet respond truthfully to us if they can help us bring more investment, more capital dollars so we can get more affordability and that doesn't happen.

This is the failure of this administration. We need more investment in affordable housing. Not just that, there are other ideas that I want to talk about and work with New Yorkers to figure this out. I'll call it municipalization of empty apartments. There are thousands of empty apartments in the city of New York. I know some people are now talking about the hotel rooms to make them permanent housing for New Yorkers. Those are creative ideas that this administration has just failed to convene us to move forward. That will change.

These are the issues that I don't want to wait until 2022 when I'm mayor, I want to start working on that now in the city council. I'm asking my colleagues and all the council candidates that are running to engage in a people's agenda so we can move some of this stuff.. The other thing that I think is important to note here is that this democratic primary will be happening at the same time that we're passing the budget, a very critical budget. It's going to be telling for all of us in public service how we move that conversation even before the next mayor.

Brian: That's an interesting point that frankly, I hadn't thought of yet. The mayoral primary will be in June. That's the same month that the city budget negotiations culminate every year because the city's fiscal year starts in July. There are all these policy issues on the table in June. You and others who are running from within the city council, if there are any other city council members or within any of the branches of government will be involved in a primary election and an immediate budget-making process at the same time. That's going to be an interesting intersection of political things.

Carlos: I've been thinking about that for a while.

Brian: I guess you have. This is WNYC-FM HD and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey public radio where we'll have time for a few questions and we'll do more segments, obviously as the months go on. We're going to cover the mayoral race very intensely here on the show, but a few questions for now for our latest mayoral candidate guest City Councilman Carlos Menchaca of Sunset Park, and thereabouts in Brooklyn. 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280, if you want to get a question in here real quick.

Meanwhile, I see you voted against this year's city budget agreement between the mayor and the City Council Speaker Corey Johnson because it didn't cut police department funding enough. What would your police budget be? What effect do you hope that would have?

Carlos: Well, I think the big takeaway from this last budget and where I'm going to see this question come up again, how are we going to refund our neighborhoods that were impacted by COVID in this austerity budget? So many funds were taken away from communities. What we know is that public safety is not about more police. We hear this from youth and from communities across the entire city. Public safety is about ensuring that everyone has what they need, rent, food, healthcare in our neighborhoods. My police budget is going to be incredibly decreased.

We got to refund our community organizations, but I just want to point you to a ProPublica article that just came out that talked about the vice squad. This is something that's been in the mayoral conversations for a while. I don't think we should wait until 2022. This is a squad unit within the NYPD that is ripe with corruption, with a focus on sex workers when we need to be decriminalizing sex work here in the city of New York. It's just a symptom of how we need to change the way that our NYPD works. Our NYPD is incredibly militarized. We need to demilitarize our police force.

Ideas that I'm going to be considering are how we make that happen and how communities can feel that on the ground. The last thing I'll say about police is I have a bill that I hope can move forward if I can get the support of the speaker to start systematically removing police from places they don't need to be at, like polling sites. We saw a massive problem with police around polling sites. My bill would effectively remove police and redefine our peace officers that can be there. This is how we can start doing that now.

Brian: Can you pull back police from places where you say they shouldn't be in the ways you just described, and at the same time, be the most effective next mayor on reducing the number of shootings which have doubled in the city this year, and if so, how?

Carlos: The City Council has been robustly funding crime-prevention programs in violence interrupters, and we need to do more of that. That's the kind of system that works. A lot of that is not funding police officers to do work. These are communities that know what they need. Like I said before, this mayor has refused to start solutions with community at the front and center. If the city can just step back and allow for communities to create their solutions, it will work. That's the faith that I have in New York City neighborhoods that I think the city mayor has not really-- he hasn't started there.

Brian: Desmond in Crown Heights. You're on WNYC with council member and mayoral candidate, Carlos Menchaca. Hi, Desmond.

Desmond: Hello, and thank you for taking my call. Councilman Menchaca, thank you so much for the platform that you're illuminating, but there's one that I've been talking about for years, that's public banking. I lobbied it with Sandra [unintelligible 00:15:45] when she first placed the bill in the state, but the chair of the committee, the house banking committee in New York State, didn't really bring the bill forward. Now you have state Senator James Saunders trying to bring the bill forward again.

Most people don't understand that public banking would take advantage of their own money, the funds in their retirement union plans, and would reinvest it. It would place that money into the bank. The bank would have to operate under federal regulations. It would be an FIDC Bank. The city or the state, or whatever the municipality that had the public bank, would be the one person who were indemnified to make the bank successful.

Brian: Desmond explain to people, and for people who haven't heard the beginning, heard us talking with Councilman Menchaca since the beginning, he did propose this early on. We'll get a follow-up from you Councilman, of course, but Desmond, tell our listeners who this may be new to, or find this a kind of wonky thing. Why would that be better for you and the people of New York? Why do you need that additional option in addition to putting your money in one of the many banking chains that exist?

Desmond: We're talking about the public bank being funded by retirement funds, which are billions of dollars. When you are a federally-regulated bank, you can borrow money from the Federal Reserve, the city and the state, or any municipality with the exception of the federal government has to balance their budget. They have a lot of times to do large things, they have to borrow money. Who are they borrowing it from? They're borrowing it from commercial banks who are backed by hedge funds. They are paying to use their own money. Most people have never heard it said like that, they're paying--

Brian: Sorry, go ahead.

Desmond: If you have the money that you can get from the federal reserve at less than a half a percent, and you know about amortization, then you understand that you reduce the debt maintenance that the municipality is paid.

Brian: All right. Very interesting. Councilman Menchaca, do you want to elaborate?

Carlos: Yes. The new economy project, everyone should research this neweconomynyc.org, they have an incredible movement and coalition that's pushing this idea here in the city of New York. Desmond is an example of an idea that's coming from community because they understand it at the most visceral space of anybody that the profits of a public bank would stay in the city of New York, rather than go into international financial schemes, like hedge funds. That's a change. That's a new idea that's grounded in community. That's what this mayoral campaign is going to be about.

This is what we're going to need to do, but we don't have time to wait until 2022, which is why I really want to bring that pressure point now into the city council to pass legislation that's going to impact people's lives. A public bank can invest in affordable housing, for example, at probably better rates than a profit-driven finance tool that a lot of developers are connected to. We can change all of this and we have the power to do it. What makes this really interesting about the public bank is if we can make it work here in New York City, we can export this nationally.

That's what the other thing about New York has yet to be for a long time, a place where ideas and the laboratory for these new ideas can happen. We have the resources to do it. We will have to shift our priorities and ensure that this whole country benefits from this. That's how I see New York, and I think that's how a lot of New Yorkers see New York.

Brian: We'll take one more for you for today. Tyrus in Manhattan. You're on WNYC. Hi Tyrus.

Tyrus: Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking my call. Councilman, there's an article in the New York Times this past weekend about commercial real estate concerns talking about with the flight of businesses in Manhattan leaving office space. There will be a glut of office space and the need to get changed or transform office space in the future into housing for people. I'd like you to comment on that idea specifically commercial real estate becoming residential real estate. Then I'd also like to know whether or not you describe yourself as a socialist.

Carlos: The first question is I, 100% like this idea. I think we can just agree that we need to figure it out how that works. I think our commercial space is, and not just our commercial space, but even the housing market. All of these markets are shifting right now. I'm trying to listen to as many scientists that are thinking about this. Housing is a need right now and commercial space should be thought of fore that. The other thing that I think that commercial space can be used for is artists, either artists' housing or artists spaces to be able to create art.

One of the things that I think we just don't hear often enough is that the artists are critical to the soul of the city. Immigrants, artists. These are places where policies need to start. I'm in support of that. As far as the socialists, I don't consider myself a socialist but I do ascribe to many of the democratic socialist principles and values that I've been seeing and hearing and studying for many years now. I think that's where this whole city is moving and I'm going to be really excited to both convene socialists, democratic socialists, capitalists, and bring them on to room and govern the city by placing the most vulnerable people at the front of every policy question.

Brian: Is there any particular reason that you wouldn't call yourself a member or become a member of the democratic socialists of America like Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez or some of the others?

Carlos: There is no reason shouldn't. I should probably become a member of the DSA. The DSA is a political organization that I have incredible respect for and because of their ability to really bring social issues front and center. I think what's more important here is that we need a government that's going to be able to bring everybody together and neutralize discussions that have been incredibly polarizing and move them forward. That's what Industry City was for me, this place where people were for and against it. I was listening to everyone.

We did the homework and then we brought it out and we made the case. That is what we're going to have to do with community center throughout all of that.

Brian: City Council Member Carlos Menchaca, running for mayor of the city of New York. As I've been saying to all the candidates, good luck out there and keep having you on as election day, primary day in June comes closer in 2021. Thanks so much for spending the time with us today.

Carlos: Thank you, Brian. I hope everyone is going to stay safe in this big snowstorm and will see you later.

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