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Brain Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Here we are in the first of June, the month of the New York primary. We will follow the race for mayor and other offices every day on the show from now through primary day, June 22nd. Remember, you can already vote now, if you have an absentee ballot. You can vote early in person beginning next Saturday the 12th. Here we are, it is officially primary election season, and we will be on it on the show every day.

Today's question is, what's a progressive voter to do, now that scandal or alleged scandal has engulfed the top two choices of many people who might choose a candidate based on how far to the left or how progressive or how identified they are with the needs of Black and brown and immigrant New Yorkers. To remind you of some of the background, back on April 13th, the progressive working families party made its endorsements and in this new era of rank choice voting, they selected three candidates in order. Number one, Scott Stringer, number two, Diane Morales, and number three, Maya Wiley.

They said of Stringer at the time, their number one choice that he, "can lead New York out of this public health and economic crisis, centering the needs of Black, brown and immigrant New Yorkers". Then as most of you know, Stringer got accused of sexual misconduct by Jean Kim for alleged behaviors during his 2001 campaign. Many of his most high profile new progressive wing supporters left him, the working families party then switch to endorsing Wiley and Morales equally not ranking one over the other.

The statement from the party at the time said, "At this moment in the race, we believe the best role for the party, is to unite progressives around these two powerful progressive women and to ensure the city is in the best hands possible to rebuild and reimagine a city that works for all of us." Then, during last week, the Morales campaign descended into chaos, with multiple firings and resignations and even a strike by campaign employees.

By Thursday evening, senior organizer for the campaign in Queens [unintelligible 00:02:27] released a statement calling on Morales to suspend her campaign saying she had created "a hostile work environment towards Black and brown staffers". With Stringer and Morales both damage to these extends, what is a social justice voter concerned with as the working families party put it centering the needs of Black, brown, and immigrant New Yorkers to do? 646-435-7280 on how you're grappling with this question, if you consider yourself that kind of voter, 646-435-7280.

One option is to stay with your candidate, neither has dropped out Stringer denies the charges against him. Some key supporters like the teachers union are sticking with him. Morales has admitted some harm done but caused the situation a beautiful mess and hopes to recover as well. Another option is to go to Maya Wiley. Another is to elect candidates who are not typically named as in the most progressive wing. Kathryn Garcia is on the rise.

Reverend Al Sharpton the other day while not endorsing anyone yet, was saying complimentary things about Eric Adams who often gets tagged as the most conservative candidate in the race, at least on policing. He was even a registered Republican for seven years and yet progressive wing congressman Adriano Espaillat, after dropping Stringer has now endorsed Adams.

Of course, all of these candidates are New York City Democrats after all. Nobody is really conservative and the way we would think of that word in national politics, and they all say they would center equity in their policies, if they become mayor, but still, there are different lanes in this crowded field. Listeners, we'll bring on two guests now, but we're also opening up the phones for you. If Diane Morales was your first or second choice before last week, who are you leaning toward today? Still her or someone else? 646-435-7280.

If you consider yourself in general, let's say an AOC democratic, a Bernie Sanders democratic, a Tiffany combined and her Queen's DA's race candidate if you're in the democratic socialists of America or you're registered in the working families party itself. If you're looking for that candidate, as the WFP for said about Stringer, who can lead New York out of this public health and economic crisis centering the need Black, brown, and immigrant New Yorkers, who are you considering now or how confused are you? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. With us to provide more context and to help take your calls, our WNYC senior political reporter Brigid Bergin and New York 1 political reporter, Gloria Pazmino. Hi, Brigid and Gloria, I know you're very busy covering the campaign trail so thanks for giving us some time and welcome back to NYC.

Brigid: Great to be here, Brian.

Gloria: Good morning, Brian. Thank you for having us.

Brain: Brigid, given that these are all New York City Democrats, what do people really mean by progressive wing in this race? Are there certain key policy positions that were distinguishing Stringer Morales and Wiley from the rest of the pack?

Brigid: I think that one of the most differentiating policy stances has been related to policing in New York City. Diane Morales was the only candidate to fully adopt the defund the NYPD language. Both Stringer and Wiley have proposals that would shift funding in Maya Wiley's case, a billion dollars from the NYPD and take different approaches to policing. In terms of making a clear distinction between the candidates that occupy the progressive lane versus the candidates that are more moderate or more centrist, I think policing has really been among the defining policy positions.

In your [unintelligible 00:06:33] it has really been so interesting to see how the progressives are really reassessing these candidates. Just a few minutes before we came on your show, the Jim Owles Liberal Democratic Club, which had initially endorsed Diane Morales for their, it's a city wide democratic club, and that's aligned with the LGBT community. They have now rescinded their endorsement for Morales and are endorsing Maya Wiley. That's at least how one organization is reassessing what has happened over the past couple of weeks.

Brian: Gloria, in one of your reports last week, you noted that Eric Adams is considered a moderate among the White democratic field. A Gotham Gazette story this weekend referred to Kathryn Garcia that way, what did you mean by moderate in the context of Adams or what might one mean in the context of Kathryn Garcia? Is it anything in addition to "not defunding the police"?

Gloria: I think we have seen these two candidates run to the opposite direction of the lane that the progressives have been trying to claim. As Brigid mentioned, Diane Morales had adopted the language of the defund movement calling for $3 billion to be taken out of the NYPD and redirected to other resources to combat violence, mental health, homelessness and these other kinds of things.

Scott Stringer and Maya Wiley had similar plans, a lower figure, while Eric Adams and Kathryn Garcia are not for defunding the police. They have taken a more conservative approach to reforming police. Eric Adams has been talking about this a lot on the campaign trail. I think we are really seeing policing and criminal justice become the central issue in this campaign.

Eric Adams, a former police captain, who often talks about the work that he did as a police officer, and as a state senator to bring reforms to the NYPD. However, he is certainly not adopting what we could describe as the language of the left as far as defund or reforms are concerned. Kathryn Garcia has a similar stance, she also does not support defund. She also wants to bring some reforms to policing, but she talks about, what I would describe as, things that we have heard about, for many years that clearly, others have tried to do and we haven't seen enough evidence that actually works.

She talks about making the police department more diverse, requiring that police officers live in the five boroughs, making sure that we have a commissioner who is a person of color. Some of the advocates and the activists in the police reform movement see those kinds of reforms as window dressing, surface level stuff that actually won't go very far to ensure that reform happens. That's why they are considered the more moderates of the race.

Brian: You noted in that story on Eric Adams that he has locked up the support of a majority of the city's labor unions in addition to focusing on public safety and the rise in gun crimes. Who are some of these unions for Eric Adams in some more detail? Why, if unions are seen as economically progressive and increasingly diverse, would they endorse him?

Gloria: This is a great question, Brian, because the labor movement in New York City, as you know, is extremely, extremely strong, very politically involved and motivated, but the unions have a lot of different interests that they want to protect. We're talking about DC 37, for example. That is the largest public employee union here in the city. They represent everyone from traffic agents to, say, the people who do cleaning inside the schools and the public workers.

He's also gotten the support of the hotel trades council, 32BJ SEIU. That's the largest building service workers union. The unions really play a major role because they can get boots on the ground in terms of organizing, and they can really get the message out about a specific candidate. It is significant that Eric has gotten their support. While, as you said, they are progressive and they usually have, as far as New York City is concerned, have liberal issues and liberal priorities, they also want to make sure that the city is doing well. They are city employees.

They have benefits at stake. If the city's fiscal health isn't doing well, that means that their contracts, later down the line might be in trouble. They want to make sure that they can get races in the future years. Eric Adams has really been talking about making sure that the city not only gets out of the pandemic and the crisis that we have been enduring over the past year, but that it does so in a way that improves the lives of people who have struggled for very long, even before the pandemic.

A lot of these workers are blue-collar working people. In fact, Eric Adams, on the trail, often calls himself "the blue-collar mayor". This is one of the lines that he often deploys when he's campaigning. He wants to be seen as a working-class candidate, a working-class mayor, which I think is something we haven't had in a long time.

Brian: Bridget, how would you assess the state of the Maya Wiley campaign and how is she trying to capitalize on the troubles of the other two?

Brigid: I think she is trying to, not surprisingly, use this moment to her advantage. She has picked up some endorsements that one might have thought could have been at play for Eric Adams as the Brooklyn Borough President. She's got strong support among the congressional delegation there, Hakeem Jeffries, Nydia Velazquez, Yvette Clarke. She also has a very powerful union behind her, 1199SEIU, the only union that backed Bill de Blasio.

We talk about these union endorsements, but not all of them necessarily come with those same boots on the ground and the same political operation. 1199 is known for its political operation and for its ability to turn out votes. Those are some of the building blocks she had in place before some of these other candidates faced their troubles, but she continues to put out television ads, she's announcing her major housing plan today.

We know that one of the moments that was strongest for her in this campaign so far was the first democratic debate. We have our second democratic debate tomorrow, and that is another opportunity for Maya Wiley to seize on what has been a pretty troubled time for these other candidates and position herself to Progressives and, in this rank choice election, to a broader swath of voters as a leader who could help the city navigate this very difficult time

Brian: Shirley in Sheepshead Bay, you're on WNYC. Hi, Shirley, thanks for calling in.

Shirley: Hi. Very early on in the race, Scott Stringer was my favorite. Then when the candidates were asked about the issue of whether they would enforce the laws regarding secular education in Yeshivas, all of them with the exception of Maya Wiley and Sean Donovan were very wishy-washy. Basically, what they said indicated that they were willing to sacrifice these poor kids who aren't going to be able to function in the real world, sacrifice them for the sake of that block of votes.

That really turned me off, not the accusation against Scott Stringer for sexual harassment, which I find very weak. No evidence, no corroboration, no other woman has stepped forward, so I really don't think he should be condemned on that. What turned me away from him was his wishy-washy answer about the secular education in Yeshivas. My first choice would be Maya Wiley and Sean Donovan because those were the only two who said, definitively, they would enforce the regulation.

Brian: Shirley, thank you very much. Gloria, is anyone voicing second thoughts about deserting Stringer? If people were waiting for more women to come forward, revealing a pattern like with Cuomo or corroboration of the sexual misconduct allegation, even anonymously by people who might've been told about it at the time, that hasn't happened. There's only been anonymous corroboration of Stringer's version of events in an article on The Intercept, which is a very left-leaning publication. It has people saying, yes, they did have a consensual casual affair and yes, they did know each other before the 2001 campaign, which is Stringer's version.

That's just one story and it's anonymously sourced, but depending on what different voters standards of evidence are for a charge like this, and I will say there were several calling in who would echo what Shirley from Sheepshead Bay just said about the accusation against him looking weak to these callers. Is anyone who withdrew from Stringer having second thoughts on whether there's enough there to end someone's mayoral campaign or in their endorsement?

Gloria: Yes. I think one of the more interesting comments we've heard on this so far has been from Congressman Jamaal Bowman. He was in a meeting with Bronx Democrats a couple of weeks ago via Zoom. It was one of these political clubs that holds monthly meetings. He was making an appearance, and he was asked about rescinding his endorsement of Scott Stringer. Congressman Bowman was one of the first to come out in support of Scott Stringer early in the race.

He actually said that looking back on it, he wished that he had given it more time. He did not go as far as saying, "I regret my decision and I am re-endorsing him," but he did seem to express some, perhaps, frustration. He talked about the fact that as a man, he felt that he needed to take direction and guidance from women and particularly women who had been victimized by people and who had gone through what Jean Kim alleged she went through. That's where he took his cues from, but he did express frustration about how fast it all happened.

I thought it was interesting a couple of weeks ago, I was at the rally with Congressman Adriano Espaillat, also one of the first to endorse Scott Stringer. Adriano Espaillat has now endorsed Eric Adams, and I asked him about Scott Stringer, "These are two very different candidates that you are supporting now. How do you explain that?" He said, "I'm not going to bad-mouth Scott Stringer. Scott Stringer has done a lot of good things for New York, but I felt that the accusation and everything that came with it was a 'distraction'".

That's where it seems to go. When it all happened, there was this big scandal, a lot of coverage, and some of his supporters felt that it would distract from the actual issues that are important and needed to be discussed. As I do my reporting and I talked to some of these elected officials, including some of those who have dropped their endorsement of Scott Stringer, I have encountered some, I don't know if regret is the right word, but definitely some second-guessing about whether or not that was the right call or if it came too quick.

Brian: Jonathan in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Jonathan.

Jonathan: Hey, Brian. How are you doing today?

Brian: Okay. What do you got?

Jonathan: Well, I have switched my vote from Morales to Wiley because of what happened last week, which revealed to a lot of us Progressive voters that we hadn't done our homework on Morales, the anti-union activity led people to look a little deeper into her past. Despite her very progressive rhetoric, she doesn't have the progressive record and she hasn't been a part of the activist community. It turns out that a lot of us assumed she had been. With the other progressive candidates in the race being Wiley and Stringer, I have shifted my allegiance to Wiley. It is partly a reflection on the accusation against Stringer, not so much because I have any particular insight or stance on whether they are true or not. The fact that it is time for us to have a woman mayor who is much less likely to come to be accused in this manner.

Also because it is a distraction and it does send the wrong signal to elect someone who has these allegations against them hanging over their head. The who you vote for as mayor does say something about the kind of city you want to live in. I can still be supportive of Stringer somewhere on my ballot, but I choose Wiley over him because she does have the progressive record and the progressive stance. I do trust her. I do also think that it's time for New York city to have a woman mayor, finally.

Brian: Jonathan, thank you very much. Craig in Jamaica, you're on WNYC. Hi, Craig.

Craig: Hey, good morning, Brian, to you and your guests. When the race initially started, I was Scott Stringer and Eric Adams just because they were the two known entities. Then as it progressed and Eric Adam went crazy, I went to Scott Stringer- [crosstalk]

Brian: Went crazy?

Craig: -allegations-- Well, the [unintelligible 00:21:44] police bring back stop and frisk all of those type of rhetoric. Can you hear me, Brian?

Brian: Yes, I can hear you. Just acknowledging. Go ahead.

Craig: I started doing more research and I was liking nobody in particular. I went back to Scott Stringer, but meanwhile, Wiley did great at the debates so she moved up, but then Diane, I liked it hard for my number two but this happened. Now I'm going Miley Wiley and- excuse me, it's not Miley Wiley, it's Mia Wiley. Scott Stringer--

Brian: Maya.

Craig: Maya, for my number one. Brian, I wanted to mention this, how come Kathryn Garcia, nobody mentioned that she didn't work for the Department of Sanitation before she got that job. She was appointed. Everybody said she did a bang up job. I could pick up two snow things. When one with kids was stuck on the school bus when the backup on George Washington bridge and it was a terrible snow situation.

That one and another one, she's given a pass for her experience or she has the spirit. She was given a job. She didn't work her way up the ranks. It seemed like de Blasio put her in position and then to run and now everybody says, oh, she did a great job, it was a job that somebody gave to her.

Brian: Great questions. Craig, I'm going to leave it there because I know that Gloria, you have to run. I'm going to give you one shot at what we heard from our last several callers before you go and then I'll bring Brigid in on it.

Gloria: I guess I would do a quick fact check of the caller. Kathryn Garcia actually started out as an intern at the Department of Sanitation. I just want to make it clear that she doesn't actually come into the- to run the department when she is appointed to it by the mayor. She actually worked for the previous administration under Bloomberg. This is someone who has been with municipal government here in New York city for a very long time.

I just wanted to clarify, I think, I remember the snow storm, we did have one bad one in the early years of the de Blasio administration. I guess what I would say is that perhaps Kathryn's biggest accomplishment during her time at sanitation was helping to modernize the department so that snowplows and trucks could actually be tracked via GPS. You could tell whether or not the plow had come down your street, you could tell where the plows were coming and going that it's my understanding really modernized and changed the way the department does its job.

Brian, I do have a spare few minutes if you want me to hang on, I can. I think we are seeing Garcia has seen a bump in the last couple of days according to at least one poll. We are seeing Andrew Yang starting to attack her record which is a very stark contrast because as you remember, Andrew Yang had been talking about how he would like to hire her as his deputy, if he were to be elected mayor.

We've really seen a change in tune. In fact, I think he said it here on your show, Brian, and when you asked about her that he hears a lot about the "piles of trash" that are piling up on city streets. That is obviously a dig to the former commissioner and something we're seeing him do more and more on the trail these days.

Brian: Brigid, to that point, I guess one could say in Kathryn Garcia's defense that if the streets are very dirty right now, she hasn't been the sanitation commissioner for over half a year. The pandemic has provided a unique challenge to whoever the sanitation commissioner is, but she was in charge early in the pandemic.

Brigid: She was in charge early in the pandemic, but I will also note she actually wasn't mayor de Blasio's first sanitation commissioner. John Doherty was the sanitation commissioner before Garcia. That caller is right that in de Blasio's first few months in office, the city was slammed with snow storms. I think one of his first press conferences was at Assault Garage. That actually wasn't Garcia in charge at that point. That was John Doherty, who was a storied commissioner. He served for 54 years in the department of sanitation, but she took over later in that first year of de Blasio's administration. That's an additional fact-checked for that particular voter.

Brian: Really interesting. All right, so I'll bring up one last thing with the two of you at the Al Sharpton George Floyd's death anniversary forum last Tuesday, Brooklyn Borough, President Eric Adams to come back to them was explaining his positions on stop and frisk. I think you both covered this, if I'm not mistaken. Brigid, I think it was you who reported that Adam's got the most applause at this outshot in National Action Network event, and Sharpton's not ready to endorse because has been saying nice things about Eric Adams. Again, on this figuring out who's a progressive and who's the candidate who most represents the interests of Black, brown, and immigrant New Yorkers as the working families party puts their interest. Where does that stand?

Brigid: Full credit to my Gothamist colleague, David Cruz, who was at that forum at the National Action Network and reported that story for us was there late that night. What he reported was that Reverend Sharpton indicated that he would make an endorsement in this race, but he wasn't quite ready to, he was going to do it about two weeks before the voting began. We are probably expecting to hear something from him soon. I think one of the things that was most striking about the callers today, the callers on the show last week and that we know about this race is it is so influx.

People are still making up their mind that undecided probably make up the largest share of the voters at this point. Now, obviously, if you start to vote by absentee or early vote, or on June 22nd, you obviously have to make up your mind. That all goes to say that these endorsements could potentially influence individual voters for sure, as they start to make up their mind. Something like an endorsement from Reverend Sharpton while it might not influence some pockets of the vote, it could be very influential among certainly supporters of the National Action Network.

As someone who is trying to put together the pieces of a coalition to be able to accumulate enough votes, to be successful in a rank choice voting election, I think any amount of support could help. That's something that we will be waiting for in our thanks that David Cruz was out there covering that event for us that night.

Brian: Then a last word, Gloria, then we're out of time.

Gloria: I think we are seeing an interesting-- I don't know what the Reverend Al Sharpton is going to do. He is [unintelligible 00:29:47] certainly someone whose endorsement is very sought after. I think Eric Adams and his position on stop and frisk is something that has gotten a lot of attention. Obviously, Bill de Blasio, the current mayor is elected, largely under the promise that he would end stop and frisk, and it was really central at that time.

It has been interesting to me to watch Eric Adams' ascent in this moment, despite his comments on stop and frisk, which the short version is Eric Adams believes that the legal version of stop and frisk is a necessary policing tool. He believes that for many years, the NYPD abused that tool by stopping and searching people who did not need to be, but he believes that being able to stop and question a person is a necessary policing tool. I think it will be very interesting to see how say, someone like Sharpton threads that needle, if he ultimately ends up endorsing Eric Adams.

I have no idea what the Reverend is going to do one way or the other, but it will be quite the contrast between where we were almost eight years ago and where we are now. That we would see someone like the Reverend who obviously has devoted his life to issues of racial justice and social justice get behind a candidate who wants to, in some ways, bring back this practice. That the department still employs today because it is a legal practice, but he wants to bring it back as a way of policing in this moment where we are seeing certain crimes go up.

Brian: All right. Race still very much in flux. If you have your absentee ballot and you've decided, you can vote now. Early voting begins in-person a week from Saturday. Primary day is June 22nd. We're going to cover the New York primary every day on this show from now until then. We thank very much our senior political reporter, Brigid Bergin, who of course we'll be hearing from a lot, and Gloria Pazmino political reporter for New York 1. Thank you both today.

Gloria: Thank you, Brian.

Brigid: Thanks, Brian.

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