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Matt Katz: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Matt Katz from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian who's off today. Happy September, everyone. Coming up on today's show, we'll hear about the question of whether the US should recognize the Taliban and why the US has processed so few Afghan applications for humanitarian parole. We'll learn more about the new gun free zone in Manhattan and the changes in the concealed carry permitting requirements and we'll hear from you and New York Times reporter Kurt Streeter about the US Open and what it means that'll probably be the last Open for the legendary Serena Williams.

First, it might be back to school time for many of us, but for candidates on the ballot in November the upcoming Labor Day holiday marks the beginning of campaign season for real. While all members of the House of Representatives face reelection this year, most of them represent safe districts where they can expect little by way of any sort of challenge, but between redistricting and President Biden's relative on popularity, which is expected to give an edge to Republicans, there are a few competitive and interesting races in New York, New Jersey.

We're going to take a look at those races now with two guests, my colleague, WNYC reporter and editor Nancy Solomon, who hosts the Ask Governor Murphy monthly call-in show and the amazing podcast Dead End: A New Jersey Political Murder Mystery and Ben Max, executive editor of Gotham Gazette and the host of the Max Politics podcast. Hi, Nancy. Hi, Ben.

Nancy Solomon: Hey, Matt.

Ben Max: Hi, Matt. Hi, Nancy.

Matt Katz: Hey, there, Ben and Nancy. Glad you guys are with us. We're going to start with Jersey. Nancy, in New Jersey the race to watch is really the seventh congressional district represented by Tom Malinowski. Can you just start off by telling us a little bit about Malinowski, his newish district and then the Republican with a locally famous name who's running against them?

Nancy Solomon: You're right. This is the competitive race to watch. It's the most important race of the 12 districts in New Jersey and it's one of the most important races in the country in terms of the Democratic Party's fight to keep the majority in the House of Representatives. Tom Malinowski took this district during what was clearly a blue wave in 2018 response to then President Trump and he wrestled that district away from Leonard Lance who was a fairly popular guy in his district, but people were so unhappy with his unwillingness to challenge Trump that they elected Malinowski. He had worked for many years at Human Rights Watch. He was a diplomat in the State Department.

He's an immigrant from Poland and human rights has always been a big issue for him. The reason why he's underwater and in big trouble is because of the 2022 redistricting, which shored up Democratic districts for other Democrats in the state by siphoning off the Democrats in his district to the surrounding districts. He's now facing 30,000 more Republican voters. We can dig into that a little if you want, the details of how that shook down. He's facing Tom Kane Jr, who I think he gets a pretty decent boost by being the namesake and son of the most popular governor in New Jersey history, basically, former governor.

He's just a beloved guy and that's not really a comment on his effectiveness as a governor, but just the popularity ratings of him. That's the dad. He's got his dad's name and he's been in the state senate for many years. His senate district is embedded in this congressional district, so he's got a base of support there. He's run, what, this is now his third try at trying to run for- well, second try running for a House of Representatives seat and then at one point he ran against Bob Menendez and lost for a US Senate seat. He's very well known in the district, but has yet to be able to capture that seat and this is certainly the best chance he's had.

Matt Katz: He ran against Malinowski last time. How tight was that race? Remind me.

Nancy Solomon: Very tight. Less than a percentage point, I think. It was 8/10 of a percentage point and about 5,000 votes. Malinowski lost those votes through redistricting. He lost Millburn. He lost part of Union Township. He lost Dover. He lost Montgomery. These are all blue towns that supported him in that election and now he's got to make up those votes with independent voters and a couple of towns that he added that have some new voters to him that have a lot of Democrats in those towns like Rahway that are likely to support him. He's facing a real uphill battle.

Matt Katz: Yes, in what's shaping up to be a tougher year for Democrats than 2020 was. Let's go across the river to New York. Ben, what's the race that you think in New York City area is the most competitive? Is it the 3rd? What are you looking at?

Ben Max: Yes, that's an interesting question. In the New York City area, the 3rd Congressional District is mostly Nassau County, a little bit of Queens. It's currently represented by Tom Suozzi, who gave up the seat to run for governor. He obviously was unsuccessful in the primary against Governor Kathy Hochul. That one is likely a democratic advantage, but in this type of year, you have these crosscurrents now where everybody thought it was going to be a much stronger Republican year in the midterm year for the new president and now we've seen a swing back towards maybe Democrats not losing quite as many seats in the House.

That one is definitely interesting to watch, but probably leans Democratic, especially as Democrats have gotten a bit of momentum. Then always in New York City, the major swing seats, so to speak, although it's mostly been held by Republicans is New York 11, which is Staten Island and a stretch of southern Brooklyn. Republican Nicole Malliotakis has now been there for almost one term after unseating Democrat Max Rose. He's come through the primary to challenge her again. That will be much watched. Again, a Republican advantage there, certainly, but Democrats are seeing some momentum shift, so I would say those two.

Matt Katz: That's another rematch like the one we're seeing in Jersey. Rose lost when Biden won. If Rose were to win this year, I would imagine there'd be a ton of national attention because then maybe that would indicate something about where the country is, right?

Ben Max: Absolutely. There's a little bit of a chicken and the egg thing here, depending on how Democrats decide to focus resources. If they see that as a potential pickup as they try to hold the House, which many people see as unlikely, but certainly possible, that would be one where if Democrats put more resources into that race, then potentially Rose could pull off what would be seen as an upset certainly, and that would be seen as a significant bellwether, but if they think it's more out of reach than a lot of other potential places to invest, you could see something different.

Max Rose will very likely run ahead of Joe Biden's approval numbers there. He's done that in the past with Democrats whether it's at the local or national level. That will absolutely be one to watch in terms of whether another New York representative who's in a real fight Sean Patrick Maloney up in the Hudson Valley, who runs the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, whether he decides to really try to focus some more resources there and what outside groups and others come in to do there for Max Rose trying to take that seat back.

Matt Katz: Ben, I just want to circle back for a second on that 3rd district, that Nassau, Queens district, the one that Suozzi is leaving his seat for. Who are the candidates? Give us a breakdown of the candidates in that district.

Ben Max: Democrat Robert Zimmerman won a very tough Democratic primary, a crowded one with some real strong candidates in the race. He's a former government aide, a media figure. The Republican nominee is George Santos. He's a businessman, a Wall Street guy. Both of them are openly LGBTQ, so that has been a groundbreaking race there in terms of a largely Long Island seat. They're likely to send another openly gay member of Congress, which has been an interesting underlying theme that's been discussed a little bit in local media. That is definitely shaping up to be a hotly contested race with, like I said before, a slight Democratic lean in the district, certainly.

Matt Katz: Listeners, especially if you live in one of the districts where the outcome is not necessarily a foregone conclusion, are you undecided? Might you cross-party lines? Are you paying any attention whatsoever yet? Tell us your thoughts. Tweet us @BrianLehrer or give us a call 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. Nancy, let's talk about two other races in Jersey. NJ-3, NJ-5 now held by Democrats, Andy Kim, Josh Gottheimer. They're in the likely Dem column at Cook Political Report, but they're not solid Dem which is the other designation. Do you see much of a contest in either of those races?

Nancy Solomon: Every two years, those two districts are very close because of the makeup of the district. I don't really see them flipping at this point. Let's talk about each one. Andy Kim is another one of the candidates who flipped a Republican seat. It was held by Tom MacArthur in 2018. It was a close race two years ago, but not as close as Malinowski's, and he did fine. He's got a few advantages going for him right now, Andy Kim does. One of them I think is interesting. There was a photo of him picking up garbage at the Capitol the early morning hours after January 6th. That photo went viral. He's in a blue suit, bending over, picking up empty soda pop bottles and things, and putting them in a garbage bag.

I just think that just helped him. It humanized him and has made him more popular. The district again was made more safe as opposed to District 7 and Malinowski. He gained some Democratic voters. Then I think the third thing is that the recent Inflation Reduction Act, it has a $2,000 cap on out-of-pocket costs for prescription drugs for seniors. Kim helped write that provision, and this has been an issue that he's been passionate about. I think he's going to be able to effectively sell that in his district between now and November. I think he's in much better shape than Malinowski is.

Matt Katz: Who's his Republican opponent, Kim?

Nancy Solomon: He's running against Bob Healy who is a fairly wealthy media business guy. I love this. My favorite fact about Bob Healy is that he got a $2 million campaign donation from his mom.

Matt Katz: [laughs] That's very sweet. My mom has never done that by the way, for me.

Nancy Solomon: One of the things that happened in the primary this spring was that none of the Trump candidates did well, which is not super surprising given that this is New Jersey, and it's the home of moderate Republicanism, the dying breed of moderate Republicanism. Healy does not have the Trump albatross around his neck. I think he's moderate enough that he can do fairly well in that district, but he's anti-abortion accepting cases of rape and incest. He's pro-gun.

I'll talk for a minute about Frank Pallotta, the Republican running against Gottheimer in District 5. Frank Pallotta has Critical Race Theory as an issue on his campaign website. Bob Healy doesn't go that far, but he has a blurb against political correctness and cancel culture. You see that he's trying to carve out a little space there between the conservative wing, in the moderate wing of the Republican Party. I don't think it's going to be a cakewalk by any means, but I think he's going to be a strong candidate for that district. I think Andy Kim has got an advantage there.

Matt Katz: Then up further North, the Gottheimer district. Gottheimer has become like a national standard-bearer of the moderate centrist Democrat. You said that his opponent is running more of a hard right campaign against him.

Nancy Solomon: Yes. He doesn't mention Trump on his website. He's not a Trumpist, but he's definitely more conservative. Let's remember that's a district that was once held by one of the most conservative members of Congress. It's a funny district because it has both the suburbs of Bergen County in it, but then it goes west to Sussex County, which is rural and very conservative. The most conservative part of New Jersey. Democrats have always struggled in that district because of that and Gottheimer I think has-- Every two years the talk is Gottheimer might lose his seat. He never does. He raises a ton of money, and I think the fact that he is a centrist really does help him in that district. He knows how to play this. He knows the politics of that district and he matches it pretty well.

Matt Katz: Nancy, Ben, we're going to take a quick break. I'll be back with my guest, WNYC and Gothamist Nancy Solomon and Gotham Gazette's Ben Max on the congressional races up for grabs, and we're going to take your calls. Stay with us.

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Matt Katz: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Matt Katz, a reporter with WNYC and Gothamist, filling in for Brian, who has the day off. I'm joined by Ben Max, Executive Editor of Gotham Gazette and the host of the Max Politics Podcast and my colleague Nancy Solomon host of the Ask Governor Murphy monthly call-in show and the podcast Dead End: A New Jersey Political Murder Mystery. We're looking ahead to November and the midterms, and let's go right to the phone to talk about that Rose-Malliotakis that we were talking about earlier. Jay in Bay Ridge. Hi there, Jay.

Jay: Yes. Hi, Matt.

Matt Katz: Thanks for calling.

Jay: Sure. My point is that we have Max Rose as an imperfect candidate and really, I would vote for him grudgingly because he's gone from being very centrist to now all of a sudden for women's rights which is interesting but he's definitely better than the alternative. I don't think we can really make any conclusions about national politics based on this because each district is different first of all. I don't think he ran such a great campaign the first time. It wasn't that much outreach.

Matt Katz: Jay, why do you think he is an imperfect candidate? Because of the campaign he ran last time or his politics are not necessarily aligned with yours?

Jay: Right. Both, but the campaign the last time, he didn't really reach out to available voters. He was nowhere to be seen in Brooklyn, nowhere, the last time. I think he took it for granted that he'd win based on the money he had in the bank rather than-- I think there are a lot of conclusions made about voters, but there are really so many voters who were never reached. I think the progressive win is really taken for granted.

Matt Katz: Thanks a lot, Jay. I appreciate that. We're going to talk about that. Ben, I'm curious about that. How are progressives doing this cycle in New York City? Dan Goldman, the moderate candidate in the 10th, he's the nominee. He won a crowded congressional primary. What's your take on the political wins there?

Ben Max: It's been a bit of a mixed bag for the left of the Democratic Party in New York recently. It's been an interesting point of discussion. Obviously, there were candidates more progressive than Dan Goldman in the New York 10 primary, and there's the chance that one of them [unintelligible 00:19:10] run on the working family's party line in the general election against him. I think that's fairly unlikely, but they'll make a decision in the next few days, but Dan Goldman is still a progressive Democrat. He chafed at the characterizations of him as conservative, especially.

Especially in some of the state legislative races, it was very much a mixed bag, even though progressives took the split defeat in New York 10 and the congressional race and State Senate races. Some really prominent incumbent progressives, like Gustavo Rivera in the Bronx and Robert Jackson in Manhattan and the Bronx came out on top against more moderate challenges in the primary. That's just a couple of examples. The Max Rose Case is really interesting because in order to win that seat, it is this complicated brew for him of having to really fire up and appeal to progressives while running as a moderate. He needs all the progressive support he can get.

He needs to really juice turnout in some of the more progressive parts of a district that are in Brooklyn and some in the north shore of Staten Island, while also figuring out how to get enough votes from the middle of Staten Island and some of the more moderate parts of the Brooklyn part of the district. It's a very tough thing for a Democrat to do in that district and by most measures, the key, of course, is to figure out the right issues to run on. In this case, he'll be very focused on abortion rights among others. Then also to make it a referendum on Trumpism and Donald Trump and Nicole Malliotakis's allegiance to Trump.

Matt Katz: Maybe that's why the caller we just had on was talking about Rose talking more about women's rights. I guess that means that Rose sees abortion and the ruling on a Roe V Wade as a way to appeal to that center lane there which he would need in order to win back that seat.

Ben Max: Absolutely. The Supreme Court decision has changed the calculus for many candidates, obviously, and brought abortion rights to the fore in many races across the country and in New York. It makes a lot of sense for him to be talking about that regardless of many other things and, obviously, in many ways to bridge the progressive moderate divide because we know from a lots of public opinion polling that Roe V Wade abortion protections are very popular among even moderates and some that lean conservative even.

Matt Katz: You mentioned that [unintelligible 00:21:47] might run on the Working Families Party on their line. Can you explain how that would work? She would challenge Goldman. Is there a precedent for that? Give a little 101 on that.

Ben Max: This is one of these interesting things where the Working Families Party is its own political party but mostly functions as a political endorser and consultancy in Democratic primaries trying to have more progressive candidates win those primaries. Then very typically just gives their ballot line to the winner of the Democratic primary, whoever it is, including obviously and famously Andrew Cuomo in multiple elections. That's happening again with Kathy Hochul in the gubernatorial race after the Working Families Party supported Jumaane Williams in that primary. There are a couple of instances where the Working Families Party has run a general election candidate.

Again, perhaps most famously now Attorney General Letitia James won her city council seat a while back well over a decade ago on the Working Families Party ballot line against the Democratic nominee. There's a little bit of precedent but very little and it's been some of the criticism of the Working Families Party that they don't take on some of these general elections against more moderate Democrats.

At the same time, there are people who will be very upset if the Working Families Party creates this battle with Goldman for New York 10, where a Republican virtually has zero chance of winning the general election, instead of focusing those resources on that very close by New York 11 race, which could actually change a seat from Republican to Democratic aim. Lastly, just on that, basically a decision has to be made by the end of the day on Tuesday, September 6th.

We're going to know very soon if [unintelligible 00:21:46] is running on the Working Families Party line against Goldman on the Democratic line, in that general election. I'm told that conversations are continuing and they will continue throughout the weekend most likely, and again from people I'm talking to, they see it as unlikely but there is a lot of push from some in the progressive wing to have her make a go of it.

Matt Katz: What you're describing is known as fusion voting, which allows the Working Families Party, for example, to list the Democratic candidate under its banner on the ballot. What's interesting, Nancy, is New Jersey does not allow fusion voting but maybe they will.

Nancy Solomon: That's right. It's probably one of the more interesting little side issues going on with the midterm election in New Jersey. The Working Families Alliance, which is as far as I know, not a party per se in New Jersey but a political organization, is challenging the law against fusion voting in New Jersey and at the same time there is a new party that has been formed called the Moderate Party. Largely I think what is believed about this and the Moderate Party has endorsed Tom Malinowski. I think the idea about this is there are people who are centrists or moderates who just can't bring themselves to register as a Democrat or vote as a Democrat.

If there was a moderate party which is good messaging for Malinowski, if he's got this word moderate attached to his name in that district and if there's a Moderate Party that endorses him, then unaffiliated voters of which there are many, more than either side of registered voters might vote for him. Functioning the same way as in New York, they filed a lawsuit to allow fusion voting.

It's not clear whether that's going to make it to the State Supreme Court in time for the election but the idea is that this would give moderate voters almost permission to vote for the Democrat. It's also functions as a way to keep Third Party candidates out of the race, which if you've got, say, a green candidate that undermines the Democrat's ability to win the conservatives have their libertarians who've run Third Party candidates and that undermines the Republican candidates. The idea is you could give people a way to vote without having to go to a Third Party candidate.

Matt Katz: Listeners, if you live in one of the districts we've been talking about, or are you undecided, might you cross party lines, give us a call. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Let's go to Joan in Manhattan. Good morning, Joan.

Joan: Hi. I wanted you to ask the two experts there, what would it take to get rank choice voting for Congress? You look at district 10, if you had ranked choice voting, I heard that 60% of the people voted for one of the progressives. Had they all gotten together and maybe voted for [unintelligible 00:27:12] as their second choice or whatever. She would've won decisively. I was reminded and it can be done because we know what happened in Alaska the other day, which is Sarah Palin is now blaming ranked choice voting for her loss. She lost to a woman who will be the first indigenous representative from Alaska ever. That was ranked choice voting there that elected her. What would it take so it can be done for Congress? Can it?

Matt Katz: That's a great question. Ben?

Ben Max: It could be instituted in New York. It would have to move through the state legislature. There are questions about whether there would be the support for that. Obviously we've seen ranked choice voting implemented for New York city municipal elections. We just had the first mayoral race with that. There were some who analyzed it and said it increased turnout a bit. One example is not going to make a conclusion on that.

There were people who liked it, people who didn't like it. I think those who supported Eric Adams and saw him almost lose in the final tally after all the ranked choice analysis and vote moves were done were a little skeptical of it while people behind Catherine Garcia liked that it moved her because she was the second choice and third choice among many. It's possible to implement it but it would take a lot of movement in the state legislature where of course there's many interested parties, especially incumbents who are not necessarily going to support such a major overhaul for the elections that they themselves will run in for the state legislature or for Congress.

Matt Katz: Nancy, I imagine in New Jersey, the Democratic political machine that essentially controls politics there would never allow ranked choice voting to be enacted because that would be a threat to incumbents and to the hand picked candidates.

Nancy Solomon: Exactly. We have so many problems with ballots and ballot design and the way that each county's political machine controls those ballots. There is a lawsuit challenging what's called the county line that's working its way through the courts right now. I haven't heard activists who are fighting for democratic reforms for New Jersey which are desperately needed. I haven't heard them talk about ranked choice voting as a strategy. It might be a legitimate strategy to work around but I don't think it's on anyone's radar. I think we're seeing really good reforms happen around the country. It hasn't filtered down to New Jersey yet but I wouldn't rule it out in the future. It's certainly not going to happen right away.

Matt Katz: Yes. Ben, let's go-- I'm sorry, go ahead.

Ben Max: I was just going to quickly add this Alaska race that's almost as far from New York as is possible for an election to occur in the US, but it has, again, some interesting undertones and connects to this special election we just saw in New York's 19th congressional district, where the Democrat won somewhat unexpectedly, where we've seen some of the shifting ground around especially abortion rights, but also something that one of the callers got at earlier, which is that candidates matter.

In all these races, there are national trends and there's a lot of shifting ground around the Supreme Court ruling or what President Biden and Democrats in Congress might be able to pass and how certain members of Congress vote on those things, but also candidates do matter. We saw that Sarah Palin's unpopularity in Alaska under the ranked-choice voting system is part of what led a Democrat to win that seat for the first time in many decades.

That's the type of thing that will be at play in some of these New York elections as well is the specific nature of the candidates combined with the prominence of abortion rights and a number of other issues as well as Trumpism threats to democracy we've seen as a big concern among voters and rising in polling and other top issues.

Matt Katz: Yes. Two of those are races. You mentioned the 19th. Brian had spoke with Democrat Pat Ryan who won the special election and now Lieutenant Governor Antonio Delgado's district. Now he's running for a full term. He and democratic Congressman Sean Patrick Maloney in the district next door, they now are not necessarily assured of reelection in those Hudson Valley districts, right?

Ben Max: Oh, absolutely. Getting into the weeds of this is complicated, but Pat Ryan is now going to be in Congress for the current New York 19, that is basically significantly altered. He's actually running in the general election for the New York 18 to try to stay in Congress. Meanwhile, Marc Molinaro who lost to him in that special election is now running in the New York 19 as the Republican nominee and it's a very different district. There's a lot of complicated stuff going on in the Hudson Valley, but the three races in New York, 17, 18, and 19 are all in the vicinity of tossups.

These are all moving targets, but Sean Patrick Maloney running in the new 17th is absolutely one of the big Republican targets. Assembly member Michael Lawler is taking him on in the general election. He's a formidable candidate. Republicans are going to be putting a lot of resources into that race not only because it's a flippable district, but because Maloney as chair of the DCCC is seen as this big political target as well and then Pat Ryan will be probably favored in that new 18th congressional district, but it's no sure thing, and the 19th also seen as very competitive.

Matt Katz: Ben, are you following things on Long Island? There are three open seats, right?

Ben Max: Long Island has three open seats, yes, and in the non-open seat that covers Long Island District two, there's just a first-term incumbent Republican Andrew Garbarino, who's seen as a favorite to keep his seat, but it's Long Island, whether it's the state Senate or the House of Representatives, again, will be a major focus of these swing districts. We talked a little bit earlier about district three that comes a little bit into Queens that Tom Suozzi's vacated. Out on the other end of Long Island, Lee Zeldin the Republican nominee for governor has vacated his seat again, likely to stay in Republican hands, but will be hard fought.

Long Island will show a lot about where voters are at and whether Democrats can get enough voters to the polls. The Hudson Valley and Long Island have always these swing areas. The other piece that's really key in the Long Island races, the Hudson Valley races, even New York 11, is the unaffiliated voters. The independent voters who often will go Republican or Democrat and often do swing at times. That again is where, while Democrats, of course, and many others see the Supreme Court abortion ruling as a crisis in terms of its impact on people and healthcare, and reproductive rights, it is a political gift of sorts to Democrats in these elections because it is abortion rights are so popular among independent voters.

Matt Katz: All right, guys. Let's zoom out for a moment before I let you go. The conventional wisdom earlier this year was that COVID rules and inflation and gas prices were hurting Biden's popularity, and that combined with the fact that the part the White House almost always does worse in an off-year election, that all meant that Republicans were definitely going to control both Houses of Congress next year. Then came the Supreme Court overturning Roe V Wade and Democrats running on abortion rights. What do you think? Are Dems going to keep control of the House of Representatives in 2022? Who wants to pontificate on that?

Ben Max: Go ahead, Nancy.

Nancy Solomon: I think it's clear-- Yes, it's pretty clear that there's been a shift. I guess really the question is, is it enough? Redistricting has given the Republican Party an advantage, nationally. I think just the raw numbers are going to be very hard to fight against. I think the data points in terms of the Pat Ryan race in the Hudson Valley and Mary Peltola winning last night in Alaska. That definitely is pointing to good news for Democrats. I think the big question is, will it be enough? President Biden's going to speak tonight. He's trying to shore up Democratic races and for the midterms.

I'll just say in New Jersey, Biden was polling miserably six months ago and he's gained about 10 points. He's still south of 50 but he's clawing back in terms of support in New Jersey. That's going to help in that tight race, Malinowski and Kane. The Inflation Reduction Act, the climate change spending, the infrastructure spending, the fact that maybe we're really going to see shovels in the ground for the gateway tunnel, the new Hudson rail tunnel, that prescription cap, all of that stuff plays well to moderate New Jersey voters. Nationally, it's a tough slog. I don't see good any good signs for Democrats nationally, but I think in New York and New Jersey, this stuff is going to play well and it's going to help the Democrats.

Matt Katz: Ben, you want to make a prediction about control of Congress?

Ben Max: I'll stay away from an exact prediction, but I will say, as I was speaking to earlier, the Hudson Valley, and it goes even beyond the Hudson Valley, both a little bit toward into the Southern tier and the Catskills and up into the capital region, there's roughly 10 New York house districts worth watching here and if you combine, the New York districts and even a couple of the New Jersey districts, if it's a good enough year for Democrats in New York and New Jersey that could tip the house to stay in Democratic hands. It's unlikely at this point, but things have been moving as Nancy was saying.

I wouldn't rule out Democrats keeping control. Though, again, it still seems unlikely, but Democrats have these opportunities based on abortion rights, democracy issues, continuing to have Trump as a boogeyman of sorts for lots of Democrats and independent voters who do not want him to run for president again. There are other issues related to things that Democrats have been able to pass. It's to be seen whether they can own that enough as Nancy was getting at. Democrats continue to have challenges with their messaging and with being able to actually tout their accomplishments so we'll see how well that goes, but they have some real issues to run on that could be to their advantage. We are seeing the wind shift a bit; unclear if it'll be enough for Democrats to keep control of either house or Congress.

Matt Katz: Ben Max is executive editor of Gotham Gazette and the host of the Max Politics podcast. Nancy Solomon, WNYC reporter and editor host of the Ask Governor Murphy, monthly call-in show and the podcast Dead End: A New Jersey Political Murder Mystery, which by the way, everyone needs to listen to immediately if you haven't already. Thank you, Nancy. Talk to you soon. Thanks a lot, Ben. Appreciate you coming on.

Nancy Solomon: Thanks, Matt.

Ben Max: Thanks, Matt.

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