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Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, filling in for Brian Lehrer who's got the week off. We've got lots to cover on today's show including guidance for parents on dealing with COVID risk and kids, plus a call in with the city's head of emergency management now that hurricane season is here. First, the historic swearing in of the state's first woman governor Kathy Hochul. She was officially sworn into office at midnight last night by Chief Judge Janet DiFiore, but this ceremony that we are about to join is the one that's open for public view.

It's set to begin just moments from now in the Red Room at the state capitol in Albany and we're going to bring it to you live here on WNYC. As Hochul becomes the state's 57th governor, she will be joined by legislative leaders and her family including her father. Once she's sworn in, we're expecting Hochul will take her first questions from the press as New York State's chief executive, and we're going to listen in on as much of that as we can hear. She's not planning to deliver any formal remarks this morning. Her first speech as governor is scheduled for this afternoon at three o'clock.

After the ceremony, Hochul is set to meet privately with Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins and assembly speaker Carl Haestie. Now, women and people of color will fully occupy what has long been known as three men in a room, the well worn adage for how deals and budgets are hammered out in Albany. Is this a possible sign of Hochul wanting to reset the relationship with the state legislature? How will she tackle the multitude of challenges that are immediately on her plate from COVID recovery, the pending lapse of an eviction moratorium, cleaning house while staffing up for a new administration, and all the while preparing for a gubernatorial run in 2022? So, lots to talk about.

In terms of the final moments of the Cuomo administration and the pre recorded farewell address he had delivered yesterday, just as this show was wrapping up, plus so many New Yorkers are just learning for the first time who Hochul is, where she comes from and what she hopes to do. Joining us now as we enter the Hochul administration is WNYC's Gwynne Hogan, who has covered the rise and fall of Governor Cuomo plus Liz Benjamin, currently a managing director at marathon strategies and a former veteran reporter for the Albany Times Union Daily News, and of course, as host of Capital Tonight. Welcome back to the show to you both.

Gwynne Hogan: Hey there, Brigid.

Liz Benjamin: Thanks for having us.

Brigid Bergin: As we wait for the start of this ceremony, Gwynne, I wonder if you could reflect for a moment on Governor Cuomo's final day in office yesterday. He released a recorded farewell address at noon. What were some of his parting words?

Gwynne Hogan: He spoke to New Yorkers yesterday around noon. Like you said,

he put out this pre-recorded statement. It started by reiterating what we had heard him say in the past, basically admitting or saying that he had done nothing wrong, that he was resigning for the good of the state, trying to paint himself as taking the high road in the situation. He still maintains that or he continues to say that the attorney general's report is a political attack against him. Obviously, that's not how the state lawmakers feel about this. It's not how leaders in the state legislature feel and Attorney General Tish James has repeatedly defended the integrity of this report and the two independent investigators who did it.

He started by just reiterating the fact that he had done nothing wrong and that he was being railroaded. Then he flipped to speak more towards his accomplishments in office. He mentioned having overseen the increase in the state's minimum wage and the legalization of same sex marriage early on in his tenure. He touted different infrastructure projects that he had completed, LaGuardia airport which has been renovated and the Moynihan station, Penn Station upgrade. He thanked New Yorkers for having given him this position to be their governor, to serve for the past decade. He said he was thankful for having had this time to serve.

Brigid Bergin: As we are standing by waiting for this swearing in ceremony to begin, it's being held in the Red Room at the Capitol in Albany, somewhere you have been many times Liz. We've just seen some of the officials walk in, state legislative leaders, both Andrea Stewart-Cousins and Carl Haestie have joined what is a relatively small group, there's some press in the room. Everyone who is there is, of course, taking COVID protections. Everyone is wearing masks. Some members of Hochul's family walked into the room a bit earlier, including her father, her husband and her two children are both there as well.

At this point, we're just waiting for her and for this official ceremony, which we're not expecting to be very long, but it's certainly a very symbolic moment, Liz, as we see this changing of the guard. I'm wondering from your experience in Albany, and the fact that here we are, it's 5 minutes after 10. It was scheduled to start at 10 and we're expecting this to come pretty quickly.

Liz Benjamin: Yes, just like this entire situation has unfolded very quickly. First of all, Albany time is fungible, it runs on its own schedule. Interesting that the history of the Red Rooms, this is actually the former executive chamber once upon a time, now there's different offices internally inside the state capitol. This is the room that is usually used for ceremonial events, and also press conferences, and has been the site of a number of historic press conferences, including the first one held [unintelligible 00:06:41] by then Governor David Paterson, after he ascended to the role when Eliot Spitzer had to resign in the face of a prostitution scandal. I only bring that up because this is, of course, a moment that we have seen before, albeit with different fact pattern.

Brigid Bergin: Liz, I'm going to jump in here and say we've just seen Chief Judge Janet DiFiore walk into the Red Room, joined by Governor Kathy Hochul and her husband, as well as the members of her staff. We're expecting the ceremony to begin very soon. There's a blessing and we'll go to it now.

Speaker 4: The God of all grace. God that gave us the opportunity to be here even on this day, to bless and to welcome our new governor. We come with thanksgiving in our heart and we look to you the author and finisher of our faith. The God that gives us all things, well, we come with thanksgiving in our heart. We thank you for gracious and faithful leadership in this great state of New York. We ask God your blessing upon us as we go through these treacherous times of our lives, that you will oh God just give them the wisdom and [inaudible 00:08:03]

[background noise]

Brigid Bergin: We're just waiting for that stream to come back up. We just heard a blessing. Now we're seeing Lieutenant-- now governor Kathy Hochul approach the podium.

Chief Judge Janet DiFiore: Raise your right hand and repeat after me. I Kathy Hochul-

Governor Hochul: I Kathy Hochul-

Chief Judge Janet DiFiore: -do solemnly swear-

Governor Hochul: -do solemnly swear-

Chief Judge Janet DiFiore: -that I'll support the Constitution of the United States,-

Governor Hochul: -that I'll support the Constitution of the United States,-

Chief Judge Janet DiFiore: -the Constitution of the State of New York-

Governor Hochul: -the Constitution of the State of New York-

Chief Judge DiFiore: -and that I will faithfully discharge my duties-

Governor Hochul: -and I'll faithfully discharge my duties-

Chief Judge Janet DiFiore: of the Office of Governor of the State of New York-

Governor Hochul: -of the Office of the governor of the state of New York-

Chief Judge Janet DiFiore: -to the best of my ability.

Governor Hochul: -to the best of my ability.

Chief Judge Janet DiFiore: So help me God.

Governor Hochul: So help me God.

[clapping]

Brigid Bergin: That was the second ceremonial swearing in for Governor Kathy Hochul by Chief Judge Janet DiFiore. Now we see Governor Hochul. She's posing

for pictures with her family

Speaker 7: Okay, and just like that--

Brigid Bergin: While we had expected her to take some questions at this point, it appears she is now stepping away. Governor Hochul is scheduled to meet with state legislative leaders. Oh, maybe she's coming back.

Governor Kathy Hochul: I also want to thank everyone for joining us this morning and particularly Chief Judge DiFiore who graced me by wearing the same robe that was worn by the first female Court of Appeals judge Judith Kaye, so there is some symbolism in her attire this morning as well. Also, I want to thank pastor Solomon Dees from Wilborn Temple for gracing us, reminding us of the presence of God here today.

I've worshiped with him a number of times, and I wanted him to bless this gathering and bless my administration. I also want to thank our leadership who's here today. Our Assembly speaker Carl Heastie, Majority leader of the Senate, my great friend, Andrea Stewart-cousins. We've been on a long journey together. I so look forward to continuing the relationships that we've had, but even deepening it, so thank you and I look forward to a conversation with you on the pressing issues of the day immediately following.

Of course, my family and my beloved husband, Bill, who's been at my side for 37 years. My children Will, Katie and their beautiful spouses, wonderful people, Matt and Christina. We also have a large extended family here. Sorry to you in the back. I came from a big Irish Catholic family with six kids, but I do want to acknowledge my parents, my father is here representing, in spirit, my mother. Dad, I'm so honored to see you and that you could make the journey here today as well as my siblings. This is an emotional moment for me, but it is one that I prepared for and I'm so looking forward to continuing the work we have to do.

To that end, I spoke with President Biden last night to talk about a number of issues. He pledged his full support to my administration and anything we need. Particularly I thanked him for the support we received from FEMA and others in terms of cleaning up after Henri and how we were prepared, and I'm going to continue assessing the situation. I do want to thank the people whose lives were disrupted as well as those who responded not just to that crisis, but those who continue to fight on the front-lines as we fight this deadly pandemic.

I also want to thank the hundreds of thousands of state workers who I have such respect for and I look forward to letting them know that I will represent them with my heart and soul as well. They are the face of government in many, many communities, and I have utmost respect for all of them. I just want to tell you briefly I'll be sharing a number of my priorities with all of you if you would reconvene again at three o'clock today.

We also talked about how we'll be combating COVID, getting direct aid to New Yorkers more quickly and changing the culture of Albany. That's why I'm looking

forward to a fresh collaborative approach. It's how I've always conducted myself, it'll be nothing new for me, but it's something I'm planning on introducing to the state Capitol. I'll be heading to a meeting very shortly with our leaders here. We have much to discuss. I'll be reporting on that afterward, but at this time, I'll take a few questions and let me call on Marina from AP right now.

Marina: Hi, Governor Hochul. Do you think that there is another mechanism for people who want more accountability for Governor Cuomo like appointing a special prosecutor?

Governor Kathy Hochul: I'm going to leave that in the hands of the assembly. They've been conducting themselves with great professionalism, and I'm going to allow the continuation of the separation of branches of government and allow them to do their work. Bernadette, from The Post.

Bernadette: Hi, Governor. Thank you. I'm wondering, rent is obviously a massive issue right now in the state. What will be done to get the money out the door [unintelligible 00:13:53]

Governor Kathy Hochul: Bernadette, you've hit on one of my top priorities. You'll be hearing more about that this afternoon, but I'll continue a multi-faceted approach, deploying more people to the crisis, realizing that there's many people who have not been even aware that they have these resources available to them and connecting them with the landlords. I will be assembling a team of individuals beginning today to assess this, but to wait not one second longer in terms of how we get this relief out to people.

It's there. It needs to be in their hands so they can start getting their lives back in order and reducing some of the incredible stress that these families and individuals are under. It's absolutely unnecessary. Rami from Univision. You're here as well, Rami?

Brigid Bergin: You're listening to WNYC and the Brian Lehrer Show. We're watching the first official or listening to the first official press conference for Governor Kathy Hochul, who was sworn in last night at midnight, and again in a ceremonial ceremony just a few moments ago with Chief Judge Janet DiFiore.

Governor Kathy Hochul: I'll be identifying my administration, the members, as time goes on. I've requested and granted myself a 40 day, five day transition period. I think everyone understands that I needed to assemble my two constitutional officers immediately which I have announced and these are incredible individuals with great integrity and a lot of government experience. I want people who know what they're doing surrounding me and I'll listen to their advice.

I have my Secretary, Karen Keogh has been identified as well as Elizabeth Fine as counsel, but I believe in a fully diverse cabinet. That is going to be a high priority with respect to the Excluded Worker Program, I'm going to go at that with the same intensity that I am with this rental program. The money's there, these people were not eligible for other forms of assistance and they're hurting. They're part of the New  

York family, and I'm going to make that very clear. I'm making sure we deal with that. Bob McCarthy, Buffalo news?

Bob McCarthy: Good morning, Governor. Is there one particular project, one particular big thing that you would like to accomplish as governor?

Governor Kathy Hochul: I want people to believe in their government again. It's important to me that people have faith. Our strength comes from the faith and the confidence of the people who put us in these offices. I take that very seriously. Andrew from NBC 4 please.

Andrew: Yes, Governor, thank you very much. You talked about the spirit of collaboration. I know you have spoken with Mayor de Blasio, but throughout the pandemic, the Mayor and Governor Cuomo almost never appeared in the same room, despite the fact that their interests could have and should have been aligned. How soon can we expect to see you sitting at a joint news conference with Mayor de Blasio and do you agree with his decision to mandate vaccines for teachers in New York City, will you do that for teachers all across the state?

Governor Kathy Hochul: I'll be making announcements about that later today, as well as throughout the week, because I have a chance to assemble all the stakeholders now that I am officially Governor and I have the ability to work with them. I'll also be discussing this with our leadership from the Assembly and the Senate. This is what collaboration looks like. I have sat down unofficially with Mayor de Blasio. We had some very nice pastries last week and had a great conversation.

He actually called me prior to his announcement yesterday to alert me. We talked about this era of cooperation that there's to be no blindsiding, there'll be just full cooperation because I need his best and brightest integrate with my best and brightest. That's how we'll get through this. For me, that's just a simple approach. It's what I've always done, but if I can invite you back later this afternoon at three o'clock, I have a chance to address more thoroughly the issues that were raised this morning, as well as some of my other priorities. Thank you very much and I appreciate everyone coming out today.

[applause]

Brigid Bergin: That was the first press conference for Governor Kathy Hochul, who was sworn in a ceremonial setting for a second time this morning. She described it as a historic day. She was joined by her family and she said it was an emotional moment that she was prepared for. She told us she spoke with President Biden last night who has pledged support for her administration, especially for cleaning up the damage from tropical storm Henri. She thanked hundreds of thousands of state workers and made clear that she has the utmost respect for the work they do.

She talked about how she will be focused on combating COVID, getting direct aid into the hands of New Yorkers, changing the culture in Albany, and bringing a fresh collaborative approach. I want to bring back our guests, WNYC's Gwynne Hogan, and Liz Benjamin, former Albany reporter. Liz, listening to what you heard there from  

Kathy Hochul. How striking was it to you, the change in tone from the previous administration?

Liz Benjamin: She's definitely striving to make clear that that is her top priority, that she has said on numerous occasions that there will be no toxic workplace environment, that people will be treated with respect and will be encouraged to work collaboratively. The whole word collaboration is really a buzzword that she's leaning on heavily. That was not her predecessor's MO, to put it lightly. He was much more in my way or the highway approach, and he was very much into twisting political arms to get his way. He was very successful early on, of course, because he did have a number of high profile accomplishments in his first and to some degree, second term.

She is definitely underscoring her plan to work with the legislative leaders, how successful she'll be at that is another question. New York by design has a very strong executive that's built into the constitution of the state. We have a budget process that heavily favors the executive over the legislature. Look, words are lovely and I think everybody is encouraged to give the now governor and in an historic moment, first woman to hold that post. Of course she noted the late chief judge, Judith Kaye, and the symbolism of her robe that Janet DiFiore was wearing, the current chief judge who did the swearing in, but it'll all be lovely rhetoric until the rubber hits the road.

I think in some ways that we will see her first executive budget proposal in January, and we'll see how much policy she puts in there, which really ties the legislature's hands. There will be nice playing in the sandbox to begin with, I'm sure, but there are a number of difficult and really significant touchpoints coming forward. That's where we're really going to see how Kathy Hochul intends to differentiate herself from her predecessor.

Brigid Bergin: Gwynne, you have been following the rise and fall of Governor Cuomo, particularly over the past year, and have spoken to many people in Albany, in the state legislature about their experiences working with his administration. Do you feel like what we heard in those initial comments from Governor Hochul, which as Liz very fairly pointed out, are just words at this point, but that she pointed out that's the change that some of these people were looking for?

Gwynne Hogan: Yes. Again, I think what Liz said, the rubber meets the road is when we see these things come into action. Just having heard her describe how she and de Blasio talked about this policy last night of requiring vaccines for teachers before it was implemented, that is something that we did not have for many years. All throughout the pandemic, we heard from de Blasio aides that they were learning about the policies that the state would implement through the press releases that the media was getting and the announcements that Cuomo made publicly without ever notifying top advisors in de Blasio's administration.

New Yorkers suffered because of this feud. That's the thing that is so important to not have lost. I go back always to the shutdown. There was this disagreement between

de Blasio and Cuomo about shutting the state down. De Blasio called for it five day or said New Yorkers should expect it five days earlier before Cuomo implemented a pause. We've since learned that 17,500 lives might have been saved if this pause was implemented earlier. This feud wasn't just a media frenzy about a back and forth. This had real life implications. The idea that that might change is very interesting. Again, we don't know how long this honeymoon phase will last.

Brigid Bergin: Well, we're going to take a quick break. This is The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, filling in for Brian today. We're talking about New York's new governor, Kathy Hochul, and we have much more to talk about coming up just after this.

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Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone? I'm Brigid Bergin, filling in for Brian today. We're talking about Governor Hochul with my guests, WNYC's Gwynne Hogan, who's covered the rise and fall of former governor Andrew Cuomo, plus Liz Benjamin, currently a managing director at marathon strategies and a veteran reporter and former veteran reporter in Albany, for the Times Union Daily News and host of Capital Tonight. Liz, I want to talk a little bit about the historic nature of this moment.

Hochul is joining a rather depressingly small club of women governors across the country. This is significant and yet it seems New York can only make history in these moments where some other scandal has preceded it. We saw our first African-American governor when Eliot Spitzer resigned. What do you make of this historic moment? How significant is it to you to see the first woman governor?

Liz Benjamin: That's a tough one. Well, first of all, I do want to just note that, and I think it's important, again, this underscores the point regarding the inherent nature of our system. New York city is a creature of New York state, as much as the city hates that and all of its leaders hate that. The reality is that there is an inherent tension that is built into the system, just like there's an inherent power that is built into the executive's office.

That really sets up these touch points that are potentially difficult for people to navigate. Now, obviously the former governor and the current mayor of New York city really brought that to a new level. It was very personal for them, but there are difficult hurdles that are built into the structure baked in, if you will. In terms of that the new governor is going to have to navigate along with a new mayor who is going to come into office in January, that you would assume it's going to be Eric Adams, but we don't know.

In terms of the historic nature, look, in one way, as a woman who had long operated in a male dominated system of New York politics, it's a bummer, actually, to see that the only way that a woman can ascend is by a man doing crummy things. Voters were not prepared to put a woman in this position on their own. I guess we will see, Kathy Hochul said she's going to run in November and that'll be 2022, the general election.

She'll probably face the primary challenge. That will be the proof in the pudding If voters are really prepared to codify this in this historic moment. On the flip side, it's history. It's really significant to see. I just wish that it had happened in a different way. 

Brigid Bergin: For listeners who are really still just meeting Kathy Hochul for the first time, I want to give a few details about her biography, just to give a sense of who she is. She's 62. She was joined this morning by her husband and two of her adult children, Kaitlyn and William. She's originally from Western New York, near Buffalo. She has a degree from Syracuse University and got a law degree from Catholic university.

She's worked in local government at the Hamburg town board and as the Erie county clerk. She did a stint in Congress. She became Cuomo's second pick as Lieutenant governor. She's been described as folksy and a very strong retail politician, but I think that probably still misses a whole lot, Liz. What should New Yorkers understand about her political skills?

Liz Benjamin: There's two points that I'd like to make here. First of all, she, and this is now a little bit of a trope, but I did write about it in New York Times. Now it's been repeated all over the place, but the last time that the former governor ran for reelection, he was challenged on the left as was Kathy Hochul. She was challenged in a primary by Jumaane Williams, who is now the New York city public advocate. At the time he was a Councilman from Brooklyn, and there was a concern on the former governor's part that he might get stuck with a number two that he didn't want because of the vagaries of the New York election system.

The final ticket is not set until after the primary. You might pick your running mate, but end up with somebody who you did not select, if that individual is challenged successfully. He very publicly suggested that Kathy Hochul maybe should run for Congress, her old congressional seat. She very publicly said, "No, thank you. Not interested," which backed him into a corner because he would have had to push her off the ticket physically, really.

At a time when he was being challenged by Cynthia Nixon and he really needed the woman vote and was leaning in very hard on that, it would not have been a good look, plus he would have alienated Kathy Hochul's Western New York beat. She's very well known there and fairly popular. She won a congressional seat that was the most GOP dominated seat in the state. She subsequently lost it when it became even more GOP dominated, but she's very skilled.

A lot has been made of her tireless energy. The woman is like the Energizer bunny of New York politics. I think a lot of people have said that keeping up with her is difficult. She's also, and this has been cast as a negative much in the same way that Kirsten Gillibrand's evolution on policy matters has been cast in the negative. I'm not necessarily sure I think that's entirely fair. When she was a local politician in Western New York, she was fairly pragmatic and conservative in her views, which really is in line with the constituency of Western New York, which is a lot more like the Heartland than it is like New York City, for example.

When she became a statewide elected official, because she became Lieutenant governor, she moderated her views. She had to, because her constituency was different. She's been cast as a flip-flopper and an opportunist. I don't know that that's entirely fair. One could say in a more positive light that she has the ability to evolve, which I think is something that we all want to do as humans and we would like to see in our leaders.

Brigid Bergin: Liz, you touched on the fact that she's already faced a progressive challenge, she did during the primary in 2018 against now public advocate, Jamani Williams, and certainly, she's going to face those progressive elements within the party in some of the state legislators, particularly from New York City. You've got a Democratic party that is battered and bruised in the wake of this Cuomo's departure. Is there anything else from her record that you think would give us any indication of how she will be able to navigate this mending of fences so to speak, and bringing or working with the progressive wing of the party?

Liz Benjamin: Well, she did, along the same lines that I was just mentioning, when she was clerk in Erie County, she was very outspoken against what became known as the green light law, which subsequently has been passed in the Cuomo administration, but at the time-- [coughs] pardon me, it was proposed by Eliot Spitzer to give undocumented individual driver's licenses. It was roundly criticized and he ended up backing down.

There was some federal opposition, there's a lot more to it than just Kathy Hochul leading the charge as the Erie County clerk, in a position that she was appointed to by Spitzer, which was ironic. Subsequently, when she became a statewide elected official and lieutenant governor, she really modulated that position, and she worked with progressives, and she reassured them that she was able to evolve on this issue. I'm not sure that they're 100% sold necessarily. I'm sure that she is not sufficiently liberal for quite a number of people on the left, which is why I believe she will face a challenge.

Jumaane Williams himself has not ruled out the possibility that he would run for governor this time around. She has work to do clearly. She has indicated that she did say fairly early on, before she became governor that she wanted to see the dispersion of the undocumented worker funds, and I'm getting the formal name of that wrong, but it was created by the legislature court people in the midst of the COVID crisis, who are not eligible for unemployment or for federal COVID relief because of their documented status.

That's one place where she certainly has leaned in to try and demonstrate that she has in fact, really come around on that particular issue, but just the nature of her history and the nature of where she comes from in the state, which is not known for its liberal bedrock. However, we should note that the mayor of Buffalo was upended in a surprise primary challenge from India Walton, who is a self-professed democratic socialist. Things are changing in Western New York as well. What will happen in the general election, we will see because when you're running as a write-in, but still I think that she has her work cut out for her in trying to underscore to that wing of the party and mend the fences there.

I don't know that she can. It's happening at the national level too, that the left is really chomping at the bit to push the center and even the right of center pieces of the party to become more progressive. She'll do what you can certainly, and some people will not be satisfied. That's probably just the end of the road.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, we want you to join this conversation. What does this historic moment mean to you? For the first time in 250 years, the state will be led by a woman chief executive, and it will be the first governor from upstate in about 90 years. Does that change how you feel about the the governor or how you will look at Kathy Hochul, as she runs for a full term in 2022, as she's said she will. Call us at 646-435-7280 or you can tweet us @BrianLehrer. Is this a moment that you are celebrating or are you someone who is mourning this transition? If so, what do you hope to see the Hochul administration do? What issues do you hope they address to allay some of your concerns? Again, the number's 646-435-7280 or tweet us @BrianLehrer.

Gwynne, I want to talk about one of the first challenges that Hochul faces and she talked about it just a few moments ago, is building out her administration. She's said she's giving herself 45 days to do it, but she's also made pretty clear that she plans to clean house. She wants to remove anyone whose name was in that attorney general's report on the sexual harassment allegations against Governor Cuomo. As someone who's read through that report with a fine-toothed comb, are there some additional departures that you're anticipating?

Gwynne Hogan: This is the very interesting question. A lot of these top aides and Cuomo's closest allies were implicated in different ways in this report, and not just in the report, but over the fallout of the last several months. One person who comes to mind is the health commissioner, Howard Zucker. He was in charge when the health department changed an official report to exclude the deaths of nursing home residents who had passed away in hospitals instead of in facilities themselves.

He is a extremely close ally who stood by Cuomo at every step of the way, and it will be very interesting to see how long he stays on. Another person who comes to mind is Larry Schwartz, who is still on the MTA board. He formerly was Cuomo's vaccine czar. He was also described as having made phone calls, or actually this was in the AG report as well and it described in news reports previously that he had, after Cuomo faced allegations from several women in March, he began calling around to county executives asking if they still supported Cuomo and if they would support him until the AG report had come out.

Which at least one of those executives interpreted as, not as a threat specifically, but as it could have implications for the vaccine supply that he was also overseeing, although vaccines were not mentioned in that call. Other names, Robert Mujica, who is the state budget director, Jim Malatras, who is the SUNY chancellor, Gareth Rhodes, who sits on the state financial services department, these are people who I would expect in the coming weeks we would see their resignations. They were all brought in to Cuomo's closest circle of allies during the pandemic and oversaw, not that they were implicated directly necessarily, but were there while this was all

happening.

Liz Benjamin: If I could just, one quick second on that. Just to be clear, some of those positions are tough to fill. Health commissioners and SUNY chancellors don't fall from trees. In some ways, while I very much agree that these individuals in particular are high profile and potentially problematic going forward, if everybody wholesale resigned at once, that would be a different sort of problem for the new governor, and also you've got a potential new administration underway.

Again, I have to stress in New York City, obviously, the general election has not occurred, and Curtis Sliwa, the Republican candidate running against the Democrat, Eric Adams, but we assume because of the way that your electorate is structured, that it's going to be Eric Adams' to lose. He's looking for talent to at this moment. It's hard because a SUNY chancellor, for example, that should be an international search to replace a person like that. That's not how it went down the last time around for various reasons, but we should just remember that if everybody all walked into Governor Hochul's office and handed in their resignations, she wouldn't have anybody to do the work and that's a problem.

Brigid Bergin: I want to bring in one of our listeners, Elizabeth from Washington Heights, welcome to WNYC.

Elizabeth: Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I am a huge fan of Kathy Hochul. I met her when I was doing some volunteering on her campaign, her unsuccessful campaign against Chris Collins for reelection to Congress. Then when she was running for lieutenant governor, she was also stumping for a candidate that I was working for for reelection to the New York State Senate.

She is a decent human being, she's compassionate, she's a good listener, she's kind, she's very smart. This thing that people call flip-flopping, I call that learning. You learn new things, you meet new people, you have new constituents, you become aware of new issues, new sides to issues, and you reframe your thinking. That's something that adults do and that's something that our, thank God, former governor did not do. I think she's great. I voted for her by write-in last time around and I'm super excited for her to be our governor.

Brigid Bergin: Elizabeth, thank you so much for calling. We have a fan of Governor Hochul in Elizabeth from Washington Heights. Liz, another key position that a lot of people are keeping their eyes on, of course, are who Governor Hochul intends to pick as her lieutenant governor. Obviously, a very important position giving the role she's in right now. The New York Times reported an initial list of possible contenders, including State Senator Jamaal Bailey, head of the Bronx Democratic Party, State Senator Brian Benjamin of Harlem, Ruben Diaz Jr., the outgoing Bronx borough president and Assemblywoman Rodneyse Bichotte head of the Kings County Democrats in Brooklyn. What do you think she is considering when she makes this selection?

Liz Benjamin: I think she's considering two things. Well, first of all, she wouldn't have the power to do this at all, had it not been for David Paterson and Richard

Ravitch. She has a debt to pay there or not, metaphorically speaking or theoretically speaking, but it was the Senate coup and the stalemate that really upended Albany that set the stage for a constitutional showdown over whether an ascending governor who used to be lieutenant governor could pick his, her or their own replacement.

There are people who really fought that out and the high court, did side with Paterson and he had selected Ravitch and ended that stalemate. In terms of, she's probably thinking of two things. Picket balancing, which is pretty much what anybody thinks of when they select a running rate, and then also whether this individual is not going to upstage her, is going to help her and not upstage her.

You don't want somebody who's too much of a showboat, who has too much of a personal agenda, although everybody does, and politics are really, why would you be there? It has to be somebody who is downstate. It has to be somebody of color. It has to be somebody who is willing to toe her policy agenda, and not get too drawn into the whole left, right, center argument that we were discussing earlier.

I don't know that I think that this person has to be as indefatigable as she was. She doesn't need help in Hamburg, she's got that covered. She doesn't need help in Syracuse necessarily. She doesn't need help in Ithaca, or in Skaneateles, or in any of these far-flung places that she had traveled to sometimes in the same day, either ends of the state to tell Governor Cuomo, then Governor Cuomo's agenda, she needs help in the five boroughs.

This person needs to really spread the gospel about her agenda, and how she is running the state, and how she is competent and how she is appropriate, and all the rest of it. Then the other issue, the last thing is, she better makes sure that she vets that person very thoroughly, as we have seen. It's very important.

Brigid Bergin: We need to take another short break. You're listening to the Brian Lehrer Show in WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, filling in for Brian today. We're talking about Governor Hochul, with WNYC's Gwynne Hogan and Liz Benjamin of Marathon Strategies and a former veteran reporter in Albany. We'll be right back in just a moment.

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Brigid Bergin: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. I'm Brigid Bergin filling in for Brian today, and we're talking about Governor Hochul and her new administration with my guests, Liz Benjamin, currently managing director at Marathon Strategies and a former Albany reporter, and WNYC's Gwynne Hogan. I want to talk a little bit about some of the thornier issues that Governor Hochul will inherit as she comes into office.

In one of his final statements yesterday, following the FDA's approval of the Pfizer vaccine, former Governor Cuomo said, "Every single employer in New York State should require all eligible employees to get vaccinated just like New York State already requires of eligible government and healthcare employees." Governor Hochul has said that before she was sworn in that she supported a mask mandate

for schools. Liz, as a sign of the many complicated issues that she will be inheriting, how thorny of a debate is this mask mandate issue for her given the complexity of a large statewide decision?

Liz Benjamin: Well, two issues on that front, first of all, the governor's office no longer has emergency powers that were afforded to it during the height of the COVID crisis. If the legislature decided it didn't want the previous governor to have those powers anymore, then the current governor does not have them, although they could afford them to her, it felt like they needed to, but she hasn't said anything about that.

She has said, contrary to what some other folks had said, that the state health department does, in fact, in her opinion, which I would assume is her attorney's opinion, have the ability to mandate mask wearing by kids across the state. This is an about face. The DOH was going to be hands-off about this and say, "Oh, it's all up to various different districts." Now, apparently, we're moving in a different direction with new leadership.

It's going to be super controversial. I don't know really, I haven't followed as much what's been going on in the city around this because admittedly I do not have children, so thankfully, it's not something that I'm personally engaged in, but the various different districts around the capital region, which is where I'm located, there have been some very angry meetings with parents who are showing up incredibly, incredibly heated.

Look, there's also the issue regarding a lawsuit that will be challenging the mandate in vaccines for educators in New York City and this whole issue. That's a powerful labor union. That's the USP, that's NYSNA, we're talking about some really important allies if an individual plans on running statewide, and we don't know where labor is going to come down at the end of the day, if in fact there is a primary challenge against Kathy Hochul next year.

This is all very fraught. It's policy and politics all mixed in this bubbling cauldron. It will be hard for her, because no one's going to be happy. It's going to be one of those situations where half the people are thrilled, or maybe more than half, because they're very angry about vaccine hesitancy and the place that we've ended up with the Delta variant and others. Then there are going to be some people who are like, "It's none of your business what I do with my body and what I do with my kid, and keep your hands off my kid." We'll see.

Brigid Bergin: Let's talk for a moment. Antonio in Bayside called in with a question about, I think transportation. Antonio, why don't you go ahead and tell us what you are wondering about Governor Hochul? I may build on that with a question about congestion pricing.

Antonio: Sure. Thanks for taking my call. Essentially, I just want to know, will she be the top executive when it comes to the MTA? When things go wrong, she will be like, "Hey, I am running the MTA, me. There's no question." Will she do things actually like when the Tappan Zee Bridge was created to make room for light rail, and finally not scare off people like Andy Byford, you know what I mean? Andrew Cuomo didn't

know about transportation, will she not be afraid of that, where she's in a subject where she may not know, but she'll leave it to people who do know, and who have the best interests of New Yorkers pretty much?

Brigid Bergin: Antonio, thanks so much for that question.

Liz Benjamin: That's an interesting question. The MTA is like this poor stepchild. Nobody wants to own it until everybody wants to own it. When it's doing good things, everyone's like, "I love the MTA and I own it. I'm responsible for all the good things it's doing." When it's doing crummy, they're like, "I don't know the MTA, I don't know what you're talking about, not my problem."

This previous governor was infamous for trying to have it both ways. He both wanted to own the MTA and didn't want to own the MTA, depending on which day it was and what was happening. Look, we don't know yet. The jury is out because Kathy Hochul has never had a policy portfolio of her own on this level, on a statewide level. You would think that the hallmark of a good executive would be to hire people with expertise, and then get out of their way so they can do what it is that you brought them in to do. That's leadership. That's what you do. You build a team.

She says she wants to build a strong team. Hopefully, that is in fact what she does. She is not a transit expert. She's who she is, she's a politician, and she has been for a very long time. I don't think that we can say yet. I wish I could say comforting words, that it's all going to be all right, that the MTA's going to be okay. The MTA's been like a third rail, not to be too cute about. For a long, long time in Albany, it was keeping two sets of books. We were auditing it, it was broke. It was not broke. We were giving it a fair hike, we weren't.

Just before he walked out the door, the former governor also was mucking around with the leadership structure there. Look, it's one of a very long list of things that she's going to have to tackle.

Brigid Bergin: Absolutely. On that, let's just take a moment to pause on congestion pricing, that project that the outgoing administration would fully acknowledge has been stalled. It's a project that many transportation advocates here in the city are waiting to see the state take some action on, which would charge people for driving into parts of Manhattan. Do you have any sense of how likely Hochul is to move on that front?

Liz Benjamin: I don't know that it's going to be her first priority. I think that COVID is going to be probably the first priority because it has to be, and all of this significant amount of money that's coming into the state, also how that's going to be prioritized and allocated, and then the budget. In terms of, she did say that she spoke to Biden. She did say that she was going to have his full support, or he told her he was going to give her his full support. I think that there's federal involvement in congestion pricing. It has been stalled a long time.

Look, there are easier wins for her to get right off the rip, within the first month or two. Congestion pricing's going to be a pretty significant lift and it is stalled a long

time now so it's going to be hard to get off the ground, but there's the gateway tunnel, too. You're not going to deliver that in a 24-hour period. There are easier things for her to address, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's on the list.

Brigid Bergin: Gwynne, I want to go back for a moment to what really brought us all to this point and that those are the multiple investigations into former Governor Cuomo's administration. He made some remarks yesterday. We're going to play just a short snippet of it and here's a little bit of what he said as he was saying farewell to New Yorkers.

Governor Cuomo: There will be another time to talk about the truth and ethics of the recent situation involving me, but let me say now that when government politicizes allegations, and the headlines condemn without facts, you undermine the justice system, and that doesn't serve women, and it doesn't serve men or society.

Brigid Bergin: Gwynne, we heard his take on what those allegations contained, but what is the status of the sexual harassment allegations and the ongoing investigations into them at this point?

Gwynne Hogan: Right. I would just say, he hasn't been arrested or charged with a crime. Leaving office and resignation is not the same as facing criminal repercussions for what he's alleged to have done. He said for months that we should trust the results of the attorney general's report, only to pivot and say it was political because he assumed that it would not be favorable to him. In terms of the ongoing investigations that are still out there, we have the potential for five criminal probes.

I've spoken to criminal defense attorneys about what these might entail, and these were based on allegations that were detailed in the report. They include forcible kissing, unwanted touching, and then in the case of Brittany Comiso, she has filed an official complaint with the Albany Police Department when she says Cuomo groped her under her blouse in the executive mansion late February, or excuse me, late last fall. That could be considered a potential forcible touching charge.

Those are misdemeanor charges, typically do not result in jail time, usually conditional release. Besides the criminal probes, the state attorney general has said that her sexual harassment probe is complete, but he also faces the potential threat of civil lawsuits, because what is extremely, or what is outlined in the AG report are violations of civil statutes that protect against sexual harassment, and retaliation for reporting sexual harassment.

We know Lindsey Boylan intends to sue, the attorney for Charlotte Bennett said that what his personal attorney said just last week was potentially actionable under state sexual harassment laws. Just to remind you, she did another press conference on Friday and raised questions about Charlotte Bennet's credibility, which her attorney, Debra Katz, says is a potential violation, and could constitute retaliation under the law. That's what we're seeing in terms of sexual harassment.

Brigid Bergin: Of course, Gwynne, there were also investigations into whether it's administration, misused data about nursing home deaths caused by COVID, his use  

of state health department resources to get priority access to COVID testing for friends and family, and the use of state resources to produce his pandemic memoir. Do you know where those investigations stand in the work of the assembly?

Gwynne Hogan: Right. There's a lot of different things there. We have a potential criminal probe by the state attorney general into his book deal, which from some experts that I've talked to, potentially present ethical violations. It's unclear exactly what criminal violations that might be. To remind you, he got this $5 million book deal at the height of, or when cases had waned last summer.

There were questions about whether, if he used state resources for the creation of that book, and there's this larger ethical question of whether or not it impacted his duty in office. Did he intentionally withhold the number of nursing home deaths because he wanted to secure his book deal? That's a big ethical question that good government groups have been speaking about.

We have the state attorney general's investigation. We have this sprawling federal probe. That started in, I would say March, after reports that Melissa DeRosa, his senior aide, had admitted to state lawmakers that they deliberately withheld the number of nursing home deaths from the public, and from the federal government, which is a potential violation. The federal investigators started looking around then, and since then, we've heard all different kinds of reports about what this federal probe might look like. It's very unclear what the timeline for that is, subpoenas have been issued, top aides were interviewed. It's hard to say when that might culminate, if it'll result in charges. Yes, there's a lot going on.

Then of course, the assembly investigation. Just to mention it very briefly, the assembly is investigating all of these things, a very broad array of potential misconduct, and they're expected to release a report publicly at some point. It could be in a couple of weeks, it could be months, and the findings of that aren't going to be legally binding, but they say they're going to refer any findings to whatever jurisdiction is investigating.

Brigid Bergin: Liz, we heard Governor Hochul get a question about this during that first press conference that we just listened to, where she was asked about people who are looking for Cuomo to be held to more accountability. What Gwynne just listed there sounds like a lot of uncertainty in terms of timelines and what could potentially happen. I'm wondering what you think in terms of, as Governor Hochul begins her reelection campaign in earnest, do these become obstacles for her if there are all of these investigations still continuing in the background, or do you expect her to take that same hands-off approach that we just saw where she punted on what role she would play in any of those investigations?

Liz Benjamin: Well, to be fair, she shouldn't play a role in any of those investigations. First of all, what role would she have? She's not an investigator, she's governor. I guess she could quietly behind the scenes urge the speaker to get on with it, or JCOPE, which is largely an executive controlled entity, much to the chagrin of most individuals, and observers, and watchdogs. She could maybe goose the

process there, but to what end? It would not behoove her, I don't think, for her to get engaged in that way. It's fairly toxic, why would she want to engage in or be seen as picking dirt over the guy that she just buried effectively, and be part of that process.

I think that she wants to stay away from it, from a political standpoint, that is better for her and focus on governing, which is really what she needs to do for the people of New York. Yes, it's true that these are unfinished matters and there are people who are upset, for example, that the assembly is not going to move forward with this impeachment process.

Now, the law, fairly clearly, or at least as far as I have understood it from attorneys with whom I've consulted, and I know the speaker feels this way because he said so publicly, pretty much clearly states that you can't impeach a person who's no longer in office, which is where we are right now with the governor, or the former governor, rather.

I don't know that it would behoove her in any way to get herself engaged in all of the mess that we just detailed. It's going to work itself out. Hopefully, it works itself out sooner rather than later. If she says anything at all, it would probably best be said, "I hope that this works out in a manner that is best for the people of New York and that moves expeditiously, because we really can't afford to get bogged down and spend any more time on this, we have other things to do, and that's what I'll be focused on." That's what I think she should probably say.

Brigid Bergin: Well, we're going to have to leave it there. Thank you both so much for your time, so much more to be watching for in Governor Hochul's new administration. My guests have been WNYC and Gothamist reporter, Gwynne Hogan, and Liz Benjamin, managing director for Albany at Marathon Strategies, a communications and strategic consulting firm, and a former reporter who covered New York politics and government for two decades. You can hear live coverage of Kathy Hochul first addresses governor of New York right here, beginning at 3:00 at 93.9 FM and AM 820 WNYC. Gwynne and Liz. Thank you so much.

Gwynne Hogan: Thanks, Brigid.

Liz Benjamin: Thank you.

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