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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. In our last segment we were talking about one group of people, Black farmers, that will benefit from COVID relief money. Of course, the COVID relief bill is helping so many people pay their rent and put food on the table, but millions of people living in America struggling when their work disappeared and disproportionately hit by the virus itself, have had to manage without a cent of financial assistance during the pandemic, not stimulus money and not unemployment, even though they pay federal, state, and local taxes.

I am speaking about undocumented workers who lived with uncertainty before the pandemic and have this extra burden to bear now. Last month, some of you know, dozens of New Yorkers began a 23-day hunger strike to protest the lack of federal and state aid for undocumented workers who lost their work because of the pandemic. Last week, lawmakers in Albany and Governor Andrew Cuomo reached an agreement on a $2.1 billion excluded workers fund that will offer aid similar to unemployment benefits to almost 300,000 undocumented New Yorkers who did lose work during the pandemic.

Another hunger strike trying to get New Jersey to follow suit is now underway. For more now, I'm joined by Anu Joshi, Vice President of Policy at the New York Immigration Coalition, who's been advocating for the excluded workers fund, and other items in the state budget that pertain to immigrants. Hi, Anu. Welcome back to WNYC.

Anu Joshi: Thanks so much for having me, Brian. Happy to be here.

Brian: Is it possible to quantify first of all the financial hit that immigrants, in general, it's such a broad category, though, and undocumented immigrants, in particular, have taken during the pandemic?

Anu: The Fiscal Policy Institute estimates that almost 300,000 workers here in New York State will benefit, end up benefiting from the excluded worker fund that they will be eligible. If you can just imagine, these are about 300,000 people who in some way or another lost their source of income when COVID-19 hit the state and the country and have been struggling ever since. As you mentioned, we're not able to access any of the other aid that the federal government has provided for the last 13 months.

Brian: Let's run through some of the bullet points. I also want to invite anybody who thinks you might be covered by the excluded workers fund to get first priority on the phones in this segment. If you are an undocumented worker who lost work but couldn't collect federal or state unemployment benefits, until now something that's supposed to resemble those unemployment benefits, if you think you might be eligible for something under the excluded workers fund, we invite your calls for Anu Joshi from the New York Immigration Coalition.

646-435-7280. We invite you to tell us some of your pandemic story and if you have any questions because it's not really that simple to apply, we will take your questions too, and hopefully offer advice. 646-435-7280. 646-435-7280. If anybody eligible for excluded workers fund benefits might happen to be listening right now, in a little while we'll open it up to other people. Let's see if we have anybody in the audience who wants to call right now who's actually eligible. Who is eligible for aid and the excluded workers' fund? How is that actually defined?

Anu: The state created a two-tiered system for families that will be eligible for this fund. The first tier is for those folks who can provide a lot of documentation, proofs that they've filed taxes at some point in the last three years or letters from employers attesting to their work dates, to letters from nonprofits who can talk about what the loss of income has been for that worker, that New Yorker, and folks who can prove New York residency. That tier one, a worker could be eligible for up to $15,600.

If they can provide all of that documentation, they'll get flat-rate monthly cash payments. That's about typical what a low-wage worker with unemployment insurance receives and these will be retroactive to March of last year, March of 2020. We just passed this program and so we're still waiting for the state to create the actual process by which people will be able to apply and what documents exactly will be needed, but they did provide some.

For example, if you can show proof that you pay taxes using what's called an ITIN, an Individual Tax Identification Number, sometime over the last three years, that will be a huge boost to try to get you into that tier one category. Even though the application process isn't open yet, I do want to let your listeners know, who think that they might be eligible, they should go to excludedworkersny.org, which is a website that was set up last week by our partners at Make the Road New York, to provide updates on application process as it begins to roll out and help people start to really understand what documents are needed.

For workers that don't have all of those robust documentation to be able to qualify for that tier one category, there's a tier two category where families can receive a one-time check up to $3,200 per worker. It's as a result of having less proof of loss of work. We know that a lot of undocumented New Yorkers might have trouble really providing that kind of rigorous documentation that, unfortunately, the law requires, and so this is a way for them to at least be able to provide some economic security for their families, even if they can't get the full amount.

Brian: Let's take a phone call. Here's Louis in Brooklyn. Louis, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Louis: Hi, thanks Brian for taking my call. I know this may be a little bit off subject, but I'll try to see if I can get a response. My uncle is undocumented, and I'm not. I did receive unemployment, but all throughout the pandemic, we had this argument back and forth about him paying or not paying rent, just because it was too expensive and we thought that eventually, somebody was going to try to help people who couldn't afford to pay rent, but he denied to do it and he paid all throughout the pandemic.

Now, should there be an incentive or a kind of reward, I don't know the right word, for those people who were undocumented, and they actually kept up with their payments, rent, bills, and all that kind of stuff? Because if there's help for people who couldn't pay, shouldn't there be some help for people who actually did?

Brian: Anu.

Anu: That's a great question. I'll answer it a couple of ways. One, is that your uncle, if he's able to provide this paperwork, would still be eligible for this fund, obviously. I would encourage him to excludedworkersny.org now and start to collect the documents that he might need to be able to get the full amount, hopefully, if he's eligible. Then, two, in terms of rent help from the state, we are continuing to advocate for the eviction moratorium to be extended and to be applied to everyone.

I'll just say that this fund and accessing this fund would not impact your ability to apply or receive rent relief. Whether or not there should be an incentive is something that I don't think has really been discussed, so I can't really answer that part of the question.

Brian: All right. Louis, good luck with your uncle. We'll go to another call in a minute, but I want to get your take on how comprehensive the excluded workers' fund is. I've seen some criticism that it didn't include enough excluded workers, what's your take?

Anu: We all know that the success of this program will be determined by how many people are able to actually access this life-saving need. There are parts of the program that are going to make it harder, like the lack of self-attestation as a proof of employment. We were also really disappointed that the state ultimately decided to exclude workers who were recently released from incarceration, who are also struggling during this pandemic, struggling to find a job, struggling to make ends meet, and provide for their families. We had advocated that recently incarcerated workers and New Yorkers be included in this fund and they were excluded ultimately.

Brian: Roger in Flatbush, you're on WNYC. Hi, Roger.

Roger: Hi, good day, sir. Thanks for taking my call. Just my experience about my circumstances. I'm an undocumented immigrant, I lived here for 12 years. I never committed any crime. A law-abiding citizen. I'm a regular guy. The pandemic hit me very hard. To begin early in the year, I was hospitalized due to no reason of mine, just as I came into the hospital [unintelligible 00:10:30] in February, the pandemic strike. I took a month to recover, but to cut it short, I pay my bills right through to Christmas last year.

I have to give up my house because I cannot afford the rent. I stay by a friend. Living by somebody else's house is not very nice. I used to be a coach, private training people. Pandemic, gym closed, I lost the income. I used to do handyman jobs at a hotel, cleaning rooms, and so forth. The hotel closed and I lost all my income and then to make it worse is that I used to be living on my savings, the savings dried up. I would like to know that. Oh, and when I was paying rent because I was subletting, the lease is not in my name so I-- [crosstalk]

Brian: You can't get rent per week [crosstalk] either and because you're undocumented, you couldn't get unemployment benefits after losing those various jobs.

Roger: I never got a cent.

Brian: [crosstalk] I'm curious if you have a question for Anu about the excluded workers fund and how you can perhaps benefit from it.

Roger: Yes, that's exactly right. I don't have proof that-- At the gym, people will approach me and ask me to train them at a negotiated price so I wouldn't have to approve that-- The proof I have is at the hotel that I used to work at. The money that I used to receive, they closed. I want to know that-- Seeing that I never filed taxes [unintelligible 00:12:09] I didn't even know that the undocumented immigrant could file taxes, but that contributed to-- I shop, I buy, I live here indirectly I pay my taxes. I want to know if I could [unintelligible 00:12:33] qualifications of receiving something.

Brian: Wow. What a sympathetic story and I'm sure Roger talking about piecing together a living in various ways just resonates with so many people out there who've done the same thing, but who don't get to call into talk shows very much, Anu.

Anu: Yes, 100% and that's exactly why we fought for this program for exactly for people like Roger. What I'll say is we don't know all the details of how people will be able to apply for the program, but generally to be eligible for that tier one benefit, which provides the $15,600 over the course of 52 weeks retroactive to last March, you have to have filed taxes or provide a letter from an employer showing dates of work and why you're no longer employed or provide six weeks of pay stubs or a W2 or 1099.

It's possible that the department of labor commissioner who's responsible for setting up this program might also establish other alternative documents that show workers weren't employed and paid for at least six weeks in the six months before becoming eligible for benefits. I would just really encourage you to head over to that excludedworkersny.org website.

I know it's frustrating that we don't have all of the information yet as to how the fund will work, but it sounds like you might be able to cobble together enough documentation from all of these different jobs that you were doing to be eligible. If not, it sounds like you definitely will be able to be eligible for the tier two benefit, but again, we'll just have to wait and see to find out what that really looks like.

Brian: Roger, thank you for calling in. Good luck to you and I hope that's helpful to you once that gets set up. What would you say, Anu, because we have to address it when we're talking about tax dollars that go to out of the pockets of people who were born here or are here legally to people who are not here legally, what do you say to people who may be resenting this multi-billion dollar excluded workers fund thinking, "Well, if you hadn't been here illegally, then you wouldn't have been excluded"?

Anu: There's a couple of things. One, I would say that, if the last year has taught us anything is that our recovery as a state, as a country will not be possible unless we support every single one of us. Our economic recovery will not be possible without supporting every single New Yorker and that includes undocumented immigrants and their families.

We know here that in New York City, over 50% of essential workers, those folks that were on the front lines and it's almost hard to remember now, but back in March of 2020, April of 2020, a lot of people were afraid to leave their house, we didn't know what was going on. These were the folks that were working in the hospitals, were taking care of our elderly, were taking care of our sick, stocking our food, picking our food, delivering our food. Our immigrants, over 50% of essential workers in New York City are immigrants.

I think that as a state, we have the ability right now to create this first of its kind program in the country to really show that we understand that economic recovery won't be possible without all of us. I think it's also important to know that we know that this benefit is going to be felt not just for these families, we'll be able to provide life-saving support, but also communities around the state. This money is going to go to families and it's going to be spent on bills, on groceries, diapers, and formula. That's good for our communities, that's good for our stores, and that's good for our economy.

The last thing I'd say is that we all know that undocumented immigrants pay taxes, they contribute through the payroll tax. They pay social security taxes and they pay unemployment taxes. Those are taxes that they aren't able to recoup through the federal unemployment program. This just seems like the fairest way that New York can ensure we can all recover from this pandemic.

Brian: I think you might've cited some of this before, but the liberal think tank, The Fiscal Policy Institute, which looks at New York state economics, estimates that the excluded workers fund will create an economic boost to every region of the state worth $1.5 billion dollars for New York City alone and 251 million, about a quarter of a billion for Long Island, maybe you could explain a little bit about how that economic boost would materialize beyond going into the pockets of the excluded workers.

Anu: What we know is that low-wage workers, in order to be eligible for this fund, these are families that are low-wage workers or who have been without income for a significant amount of time, tend to spend money that they receive immediately, and in their communities for essential items. So that's money that's going directly back out into the economy being spent in local stores, being spent in sales tax and to boost the economic output of their local communities and so that's huge and that's a big deal for all of the regions of the state.

Brian: This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are in New York and New Jersey public radio. Just a few minutes left with Anu Joshi, vice president of policy at the New York Immigration Coalition. I want to touch on a related thing because, yes, this is a fund for undocumented workers to get unemployment in the pandemic, but you described before how much documentation is actually need.

It might not be immigration papers, but it's all these other things. There's a related problem that I wonder if you've been following, the Washington Post had a good article on this, this weekend, that some undocumented immigrants in search of vaccine appointments have faced barriers because of ID requirements in certain cases and anybody who's gotten a vaccine will know this, people are being asked for driver's license or proof of health insurance, or other kinds of ID that undocumented people are less likely to have when they show up for the vaccines. How much of a problem is this?

Anu: It's a huge problem for immigrant communities and for quite frankly, all communities of color, low-income communities, recently incarcerated communities having access to identity documents. Listen, we've been working with the state on vaccine equity. It's a problem that we're facing here in New York City and across the state, how are we ensuring that the people that need the vaccine are getting the vaccine, that they feel safe to get the vaccine?

I think that the state and the city, especially have made great strides in trying to ensure that everyone can access the vaccine safely, setting up mobile units around the city and around the state, really working with vaccine providers to ensure they understand what documents are actually needed and what aren't. I think we still have a long way to go.

Brian: I want to give out that contact address again. Maybe you can give it out. I know we have and I had it here a second ago, sorry, excludedworkersny.org. Is that the best place for people who might be covered by this fund to go excludedworkersny.org?

Anu: Yes, that's right.

Brian: I'll add one question from a listener via Twitter, "Is this information about excluded workers available anywhere in Spanish?"

Anu: Yes, actually, trabajadoresny.org. Is the same website, but in Spanish.

Brian: Anu, thank you so much for joining us today with this information. Hopefully, we've helped some people apply for the funds that they'll be eligible for.

Anu: Thank you so much for having me.

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