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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Last Thursday, New York governor Kathy Hochul fulfilled her promise of beginning the sale of legal marijuana in New York State before the end of the year. Snuck it in there on the 29th of December. The first cannabis dispensary, you've probably heard this, Housing Works Cannabis Company opened in the St. Mark's place area of the East Village. It occupies a storefront once owned by the Gap, symbolizing a return to the free-spirited culture the area is known for. The dispensary opened its doors to customers at 4:20 PM. April 20th is a day associated with marijuana by those in the know.

According to Gothamist, patrons began lining up in anticipation at around noon, four hours plus in advance, and the line stretched all the way around the block, like all the way around a square city block and down to the infamous Starbucks on Astor Place where people get a buzz a different way. With so many people excited to try out legal weed in New York City for the first time, we're going to open the phones about your shopping experiences if you have been down there. Listeners, did you visit the Housing Works Cannabis Company yet? 212-433-WNYC.

What was it like to buy legal cannabis for the first time in New York State? If you were there for the symbolic 4:20 PM opening last Thursday, how long did you wait in line? Who did you meet on the line? Any good conversations? Have you been to the dispensary in the days following its grand opening? Are there still lines every day? If so, call us at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or Tweet @BrianLehrer.

We got a tweet last week from someone in New Jersey when we were doing "your biggest news story of the year," one of those segments. We got a tweet from someone in New Jersey who said their biggest news story of the year personally in 2022 was that they are in their 70s and just bought marijuana legally for the first time because it became legal with open dispensaries in New Jersey for recreational cannabis sales last year. Any old hippies in New York having that experience now or anyone much younger as well? You do have to be 21 to shop legal weed legally. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 if you've been to the Housing Works Cannabis Company yet.

Something we've been discussing frequently related to this topic is the numerous black market shops that have filled the void since marijuana was legalized in 2021. Not exactly black market. They call it gray market, really, because it isn't really illegal to have it or to find the backdoor ways to give it to people and then take money from those people. Like, if you buy this piece of gum for $100, [chuckles] we'll give you a quarter ounce of marijuana. Things like that have been going on anyway. Maybe it's just not such a thing right now, such a unusual difference, let's say, for people to walk into a storefront and buy marijuana because really you've been able to do that for a while in New York City.

How would you compare the experience of buying from one of those stores or even your regular old-fashioned dealer if you're a user in that way versus buying from the new Housing Works Dispensary? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692. Let me just say as we go into this segment, that this is not only about getting stoned. We know there are dangers associated with cannabis use for some.

Of course, a big focus of this rollout on the very serious side of things has been on equity for those who were previously incarcerated for marijuana-related charges. They've been getting the first licenses to run dispensaries if they also have a business background. Are you a previously incarcerated person looking to open your own legal cannabis shop? What has that process been like and what are your reactions to the first store being owned by Housing Works, which was a social justice call by the state in its own right?

Housing Works, a nonprofit, founded to help people with AIDS keep a roof over their heads originally. Call us at 212-433-WNYC. Maybe you're standing online right now listening to the show. Tweet @BrianLehrer. With us now to answer your questions as well as take your stories if anyone calls in with them, we have WNYC Gothamist health reporter Caroline Lewis to talk about her reporting on the launch of legal marijuana in New York State. She's been following this rollout. Caroline, always good to have you on the show. Welcome back.

Caroline Lewis: Thanks, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: How many people showed up to buy legal cannabis on Thursday, day one, and how many people got in?

Caroline Lewis: We were told that more than 500 people bought weed that first day and even more were lined up outside. I think they had to cut off the line at some point. It went around the block like you said. I think it was cool to see that it represented the diversity of New York City with every background and age group.

Brian Lehrer: Every background and age group? Take us more into that.

Caroline Lewis: It was just a wide range of people. The line looked as diverse as the city I would say. People were definitely excited. There was reggae blasting the whole thing. People were also already smoking in line so I think it was clear, like you said, that this is not the first place to get weed. It was more maybe symbolic or novel for some people.

Brian Lehrer: What about the old hippie crowd? What I heard when Massachusetts first went online with their dispensaries and when California did is that the buyers tended to be older partly because the prices with all the taxes-- states institute legal marijuana dispensaries as much for the tax revenue that they're going to bring as anything else, because of that, legal cannabis was more expensive than illegal cannabis so a lot of young people with less money continued to buy from their dealers, and it was a generally older crowd, at least at first, who were patronizing the dispensaries. Did you see any evidence of that so far?

Caroline Lewis: Like I said, I think that was part of what surprised me actually. It wasn't just the boomer crowd. It was young people too. I think maybe the question is whether they'll continue to go here or whether they were just curious about it. I think it depends how convenient and, like you said, affordable it will be in the future.

Brian Lehrer: Why was there only one store at this initial launch? When will the next stores begin opening? I'm sure this is not what the governor wanted. Just one store snuck in under the wire in the year that she promised the openings, 2022, one store on December 29th. It's a little underwhelming actually.

Caroline Lewis: I think this store opened when it did, like you said, specifically to just fulfill that promise of having the first legal shop open before 2023. This is clearly not a full launch of the legal industry. It took a long time after marijuana was legalized for the governor to set up the cannabis control board and the office that would manage this and for them to develop the regulations around cannabis.

One of the goals in New York was to make sure that there was some sort of reparations around the war on drugs where the first retail licenses went to people with past marijuana convictions and their family members and also nonprofits like Housing Works. All of that took time and the first licenses were not actually issued for retail shops until late November.

As far as what's going to happen with the next dispensaries to open, I think that's still a little up in the air. I think there might be a couple that are ready to open in the coming weeks, like in January, and some might get delivery services up and running before their brick-and-mortar shops.

The individuals with past marijuana convictions who were given licenses were promised that they would get help from the state securing real estate for their stores, that they would get funding, and none of that has really materialized yet. The state has not really confirmed that any of that has been given out. I think it remains to be seen what happens there.

Brian Lehrer: Here's Kavita in the Bronx who's in the business. Kavita, you're on WNYC. Thank you so much for calling in.

Kavita: Hi. my name is Kavita Pawria-Sanchez. Thanks for taking my call and for doing this piece. I'm the CEO of a new organization called CannaBronx. We were founded to make sure that communities in the Bronx in particular that were most impacted by the war on drugs are really at the forefront of realizing the equity goals here. I think folks probably could guess the Bronx is home to five of the city's highest number

Kavita: of arrests pre-legalization. What I really wanted to talk about, and I think others have talked about this as well but it's just a huge priority, is for the city and the state to really focus on. I think they are and there's really visionaries in both of those offices and spaces. The regs are really challenging, the rules, the process of licensing. I'm personally an attorney and I'm considering a business in this space. It's mind-boggling and really difficult to comprehend how your average person, not to mention if you've been impacted by the criminalization of marijuana, how one could actually succeed in not just getting a license, but in successfully having a business in this space.

Then, of course, what others have said is funding. This is not going to be possible without really, really serious funding from the city and the state, which again, I know they're aware of. I'm sure they're doing everything they can but this is urgent and there is really no way this is going to work for people on the ground without that in place. I think it's a tremendous opportunity that the city and state realized in building this really, really powerful industry that would change the workforce landscape as well as on so many other fronts in the state if we get it right. I think in order to get it right, we have to be listening to the folks who are most impacted on the ground.

Brian Lehrer: Have you, as CEO of CannaBronx, looked at the list of the first, I think it's 36 licenses for dispensaries that were given out, which the state made a big show of saying were along the social justice criteria lines better than maybe any other state that's legalized so far. Housing Works, maybe being one example, and other people who've been given licenses who did meet those criteria of both having business experience and having past marijuana convictions. Did they do it well or not so well, in your opinion?

Kavita: Yes, that's a great question. From what I can tell it feels like it was done well. Of course, I'm not familiar with the hundreds and hundreds of applicants that were able to at least get to that stage. I'm curious about who didn't make it and why. I think one amazing thing to note from that, that really struck me, is the number of immigrant businesses. Folks who have successful businesses as immigrants and are now I think really courageously entering this new space and to me also [unintelligible 00:13:20] the intersection here--

Brian Lehrer: Whoops. Oh, we lost you there for a second. You're back. Oh, we lost you again. I don't know what's happening to that line. Let's see. Go ahead.

Kavita: Oh, sorry.

Brian Lehrer: Kavita, you can finish the thought. That was our on our end. Go ahead.

Kavita: Oh, sorry. I just I think wanted to just really highlight what it means for this new generation of immigrants to be entering this space so courageously. To me, it highlights the intersections of this new cannabis space with immigrant justice, with help with economic justice and just generally community wealth generation, and the incredible opportunities that are here. I think that's a really great question and it's something we just have to keep our eyes on, again, for this to actually meet equity goals.

Brian Lehrer: Thanks for raising all that, Kavita in the Bronx. Thank you very much. This is WNYC FM, [unintelligible 00:14:26] New York, WNJT-FM (88.1 FM), Trenton, WNJT 88.5, Sussex, WNJY 89.3, Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey public radio and live streaming @wnyc.org at eleven o'clock. Few more minutes with our Caroline Lewis, reporter from the WNYC in Gothamist Newsroom covering the rollout of legal cannabis in New York State. The first dispensary opening in the East Village last Thursday. Let's take another call, another one from the Bronx in fact. Trey in the Bronx. You're on WNYC. Hi, Trey. Trey, do we have you?

Trey: Hello?

Brian Lehrer: Hi, Trey, can you hear me?

Trey: Oh, good morning, Brian. I'm sorry about that, man.

Brian Lehrer: That's alright.

Trey: This is my issue, sir. As that lady just stated, I don't have a problem with immigrants that already own businesses getting into the cannabis business, but to say that's social justice, they're not the ones that went to jail all these decades. They're not the ones who had their lives dramatically impacted by this law and this war on "drugs". That's the part I want to see. I want to see the friends and family that I know that have been really hurt by this cannabis hoopla. I would like to see them get some entry into this market and so far, sir, I have seen no bit of that. It's big pockets, big money, and people that are able to weave in and out of those intricacies with the law that have been able to open it up.

By the time the little people get in, the whole market will be saturated. Which chance will they have unless they're able to come up with a special niche, like "the pizza pusher"? A guy that makes food that's also cannabis-infused. You're going to have to come up with a niche once this thing gets oversaturated, which it will. My other thing is you saw all those young people online that's part of the oversaturation. They have found that their dealer does not have the quality he used to have because the person that's supplying him no longer-- are you a priority? The stores are a priority because they're buying more. It's the American way. I'm going to sell to the person that can afford to pay me the highest price and that can afford to buy the most product. Therefore, all the crap quality, that's what's going to be in the streets. All of the good stuff, you're going to have to go to the store and spend that extra money on the taxes.

Brian Lehrer: Great answer.

Trey: Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Appreciate your call. Appreciate you, Trey. Caroline, what were you thinking, listening to those two calls?

Caroline Lewis: A lot of things come up there. I think, you know, the state is very well-intentioned in the way that they're trying to do this. New York is unique in having the first retail licenses go to people with past marijuana convictions and their family members and nonprofits. In New Jersey, it was these big corporations that opened the first dispensaries.

At the same time, bodegas are super diverse already, and the underground delivery service market was super diverse already, and there's a lot less gatekeeping. Like the caller said, applying for a license, even if it's supposed to be accessible, is hard for a lot of people. Especially when the state is rationing out these licenses or rolling it out in this very deliberate way and at the same time, trying to crack down on the stores that have popped up to sell weed in the meantime.

As the second caller said, those stores have in turn disrupted business for the delivery services that existed. It's like the market is changing in natural ways and it's going to continue to evolve in natural ways. People are going to continue to sell weed and the state is meanwhile very slowly and deliberately trying to roll out this regulated market. I think the question is, in the end, how accessible will the legal weed be? How expensive will it be? How equitable will it really be compared to the underground market? I think that there's still so many questions that remain about how successful this whole project will be regardless of intentions.

Brian Lehrer: Let's get a couple of experiences in here before we run out of time. Our first callers have been really on the social justice economics of the new industry but Rosemary in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Rosemary.

Rosemary: Hi, Brian. Regarding my experience, I first would like to say I agree with Trey 100% and I think for any store or dispensary that is allowed to be open, why can't they make a law where they say 25 people have to be let out of jail? That's not why I called. I called because I buy in Massachusetts when it first came out during the pandemic, and now that Manhattan is opening, I'm thrilled but they still do not list, at least from the services that I have used here the ingredients and that it's been tested.

As far as I know, California and Massachusetts are the only states that will list the breakdown of the cannabis and what is in there. That's important for me because I've ordered cannabis here, and I can feel the difference when I smoked in my lungs. I've asked them, good dispensaries that deliver and I said, "Why don't you list them?" "Oh, I'll talk to them about it." Until I see listed ingredients, I think I'll still go to Massachusetts when I can. The other thing is the prices have come down. I noticed it from the pandemic. I was buying for an eighth like $60. $55 to $65. Now, they're like $45, I can even get some for 40, 45. I mean, the prices definitely have come down with the cannabis. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Rosemary, Thank you.

Rosemary: Well, thank you. Bye.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Thank you for all that. We're going to conclude on this, Caroline, do you know anything about listed ingredients versus the dispensaries in Massachusetts?

Caroline Lewis: I'm not sure what the differences in labeling are between New York and Massachusetts but I know that obviously in New York with the legal dispensaries, they have to test their products both for potency in terms of how much THC they contain, as well as whether they contain certain contaminants and things like that. That's one of the main differences between the weed you're going to get at the legal dispensary versus the illegal dispensaries is that it's been tested. It's all been grown in state, you know it's not coming from some farm with labor trafficking in California. That is one of the main things if that's important to people.

Brian Lehrer: Caroline Lewis, WNYC and Gothamist health reporter who has been covering the rollout of the legal cannabis industry in New York State. Caroline, thanks a lot.

Caroline Lewis: Thanks.

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