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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. To end the show today, we'll invite your calls about learning your heritage language, the language or languages you grew up hearing or speaking at home as a child perhaps, but never really had the chance to develop because you lived most of your life speaking English or in any other different language. 212-433-WNYC. Were your parents immigrants or native speakers of anything but English? How much did both or all languages get spoken at home and talk to you, how much are you going back now as grownups as some people are and learning or relearning those heritage languages?

Tell us what language, tell us what it means to you and give us a great phrase. How about a great expression from your heritage language that we may not have in English? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. I want to say that this is inspired by a recent episode of the NPR podcast Life Kit. That episode got into all this and offered tips to heritage language learners. We will link to it on our website and our Twitter and speak to an expert who they went to for advice now, to learn more and to do it in this call-in context.

With us now is professor Maria Carreira, co-founder of the National Heritage Language Resource Center at UCLA, and professor Emerita of Spanish at California State University at Long Beach. Professor Carreira, welcome to WNYC. Great to have you on with us.

Maria Carreira: Thank you, Brian. I'm delighted to be here to talk about really a very important and very American topic. I realized I was listening to the segment that came right before about abortion. It may seem unimportant to talk about heritage languages at a time like this, but it isn't if you consider that one out of five children in the United States speak a language other than English at home. In New York City, it's almost 50% of children that speak a language other than English at home. The question of how do we educate these children? How do we make sure that they develop both of their languages so that they can benefit from bilingualism is really a very timely and important one.

Brian Lehrer: How broad is the term heritage language or a heritage language learner because it's more than simply people who are growing up bilingual or trilingual, right?

Maria Carreira: That's correct. It's a term that encompasses a lot of different types of speakers. There are people who, myself, for example, I arrived in the United States at age 11. By the time I got here, I had a very good foundation in Spanish and so my task was to learn English. I managed to keep up both of my languages because my parents continued to speak Spanish at home. That's one group, children who are born abroad and come to the United States already with very strong linguistic foundations in their native language.

There's also children here whose grandparents were immigrants, or maybe even great grandparents. They use run the gamut of abilities. You see some children who still maintain to some extent, that language that was spoken at home by the great grandparents whereas there are others that are by that point, completely monolingual and regret not ever having learned that language.

Brian Lehrer: I think one of the groups is people who go back as adults, as I said, in the intro and relearn, or even learn for the first time, a heritage language from their family background, from their heritage. I know a Korean family for example, who the parents came here both as kids, spoke mostly English, spoke English to their kids, and the kids are now going to Korean school on the weekends or after school, whenever it is, and one of the things they're doing is learning Korean in addition to being fluent English speakers. I think that goes on in a lot of cultures.

Maria Carreira: Absolutely. In New York City, you see a lot of that. There are immigrant communities that have these Saturday schools, or sometimes after-school schools that supplement the education that children receive in mainstream school by providing linguistic instruction in the native language in addition to subject matter instruction. It's really a great way to get ahead in school. It's true, a lot of those children lose their language or maybe don't fully develop their language at home. Keep in mind, Brian, that until fairly recently, it was not a good thing to speak a language other than English at home.

Parents were routinely told if you speak a language other than English at home, your child is going to suffer. When that child goes to school, he or she will not be able to learn English as well. Now we know that none of that is true. There's a lot of research that shows just the opposite. In fact, we have these dual language bilingual programs where English speakers, monolingual English-speaking children are in the same classroom with children who speak another language at home and are learning English and the two populations help each other.

The research show that it works phenomenally well that children end up learning content knowledge. I'm talking math, history, science, et cetera, and in addition to that, they pick up both languages, English, and whatever the other language may be extremely well. They are a huge success story and they have become very popular.

Brian Lehrer: Let's hear a story, Lisa in Glenrock, you're on WNYC. Hi Lisa.

Lisa: Hi. [Manx Gaelic language] Brian, that's good morning in Manx Gaelic.

Brian Lehrer: Manx Gaelic.

Lisa: Manx as in the Isle of Man M-A-N-X.

Brian Lehrer: Manx.

Lisa: It's a lovely island between Dublin and Wales.

Brian Lehrer: Your relationship to this language is?

Lisa: My great-great-grandparents came to the United States from the Isle of Man. While I was doing genealogy during the lockdown, I found a wonderful class because my great-great-grandparents came from the Isle of Man. I started taking this wonderful Zoom class through Culture Vannin and I've been learning Manx Gaelic. I can say [Manx Gaelic language] I am fine and wonderful. [Manx Gaelic language] How are you? We're learning all sorts of wonderful things and people are from all around the world are joining in.

Brian Lehrer: What does it mean to you to be doing this?

Lisa: It's really interesting because I've never been good with languages and I have such an affinity with the Isle of Man after doing this heritage research. Visiting the island, the people are so lovely and I feel like I'm a connection back because when I went to Chicago and saw a grave site with the Isle of Man symbol of the three legs, I just was overwhelmed. I just thought this was just so wonderful because I didn't know these people that well, I knew some of my parents' ancestors, but I feel like a door has just opened to where I came from.

Brian Lehrer: Lisa, thank you so much for you calling your story. We really appreciate it. Let me go right onto another caller. Here's Niraj in New Providence. Niraj, you're on WNYC. Hi.

Niraj: Hey, good morning, Brian. First time, long time. Thank you very much for having me on. My parents came from India here in the '70s and '80s and so they spoke Mirati growing up for me. Mirati is an Indonesian language. I heard that at home, but what really helped was I think as your guest alluded to, my brother and I actually went to a family friend's home every other Sunday and learned the language. We learned how to write it, learned how to read it, learned how to speak it.

That helped a lot when we spoke with our grandparents. Now the problem is that right now when we go to India, outside of my grandparents, our relatives speak English there. [chuckles] You really don't need to speak Mirati that much although it helps when you're in public. Now my goal in the future is for our son who's only three months old for him to learn his own heritage and to learn Mirati would be great. I know for my own responsibility, to be able to pass that on would just be great. I look forward to doing just that

Brian Lehrer: Your son is making his radio debut at this very moment, I will add. What's his name?

Niraj: His name is Nolan.

Brian Lehrer: Hello, Nolan, you're on the radio. Before you go Niraj, what does it mean to you and what do you think you would like it to mean to Nolan to grow up with both languages?

Niraj: It would mean a lot. I think when you look at words from a different perspective and when you realize that there are different ways to say certain words, and there are some words in Mirati there are no words for that in English and vice versa [crosstalk]-

Brian Lehrer: You have an example of that?

Niraj: -a lot of vocabularies.

Brian Lehrer: Do you have an example of a word?

Niraj: Sure. Let's see, I'm trying to think of a good one.

Brian Lehrer: I know I put you on the spot.

Niraj: I think the word for hello and goodbye are the same [Mirati language] for the most part in Mirati. I think there are nuances here in English, which are not the same in Mirati. Then there are some other terms which we might use in Mirati which evoke more of a feeling as opposed to what you might have to describe by multiple words in English. I think some of those nuances exist.

I think especially for my son here, knowing that his last name is an Indian last name, to know that his grandparents came from India. To know that he has so many cousins and aunts and uncles who live over there, to understand their background, to understand what they might have grown up on learning, what I grew up on learning at home. Just to be able to read and write too. When you go to India, it helps a lot to learn how to read the language so you know how to get around. I think all that can still exist for him. For me, I don't want to let my knowledge die. I want to make sure that he learns it as well.

Brian Lehrer: Niraj, thank you so much for your call. We really appreciate it. Professor Carreira, what are you thinking?

Maria Carreira: It's amazing. You hear the word connection coming up time and time again. We find that that's what motivates people to recover a language that has been lost in the family or to improve a language that was first learned early in life. Lisa mentioned that she had never been a good language learner, but all of a sudden, she wants to learn the language of her great-grandparents. That is the power of this cultural connection, the identity that people find when they start to learn about their background, all of a sudden they become good language learners because in language learning, motivation is so important.

As to Nolan, one of the top things I want to recommend is learning how to read and write. That's really important. Not just because it's useful, obviously, if you're traveling in a city, you want to be able to read the signs, but also because it's the best way to quickly learn a language, to pick up vocabulary, to learn expressions, to learn content knowledge. Let's say Nolan grows up to be a doctor, the best way to learn medical vocabulary is by reading.

I would recommend to all parents who are in this situation, and there are many of them, some of them have to recover the language. That language doesn't exist anymore in the family. Others want their kids to continue to develop their language. Think in terms of maximizing exposure. Turn the TV on and then sit down with your child and say, "Hey, what do you think about what that person is saying? Do you agree or not?"

Billboards. As you're driving down the street, point to a billboard that's in that language that you're trying to teach your child and say, "Hey, can you stop the word that means X?" Watch movies and read. All of this maximizes exposure and also sends the message to your child that this language is not just something that's spoken by mom and dad and grandma and grandpa at home, but is a societal language with a rich culture and many fun things to offer.

Brian Lehrer: Watching movies is a great one. I remember when I was taking French in high school and one of our assignments was to go to a local movie theater that happened to be showing a movie that was in French. It was a great experience and something that stayed with me. I think probably for a lot of kids in the class, helped certain things seep in when you saw it in that cultural context and entertainment context. Carmella in Hamilton Heights, you're on WNYC. Hi, Carmella.

Carmella: Hey, Brian. First time long time as well. I'm actually calling because I grew up as a child of Paraguayan immigrants and grew up speaking Spanish and English just fine. Actually got a good grasp of both languages, but in Paraguay, there is a second official language called Guaraní. Guaraní is an indigenous language spoken majority by the Guaraní Indigenous tribes and people of Paraguay.

To this day, I have a very rudimentary understanding of Guaraní, I can understand some basic phrases, but it is so widely spoken in Paraguay. Every time I go over there, we'll start speaking in Spanish and then the punchline of a joke will be in Guaraní. It's like I get totally lost. I really appreciated what your guest was saying about these cultural experiences and learning from that because everyone will be laughing and then they'll look at me and then realize they have to explain something else and not even just in English, but also in Spanish.

It's really fascinating as well because here in New York, there is a huge Paraguayan community especially up in Westchester and in Queens. There are a lot of times where I feel very Paraguayan and then there are times when something gets spoken to me in Guaraní and I'm like a deer in headlights. I really appreciate having this other part of me. I know that a lot of people don't even know where Paraguay is on a map or what Guaraní is. I just want to throw it out there and it just means a lot to me. I lost my dad recently. I still have my mom around, but she's trying to tell me all of these stories to make this connection. It's definitely a learning curve trying to get a grasp of Guaraní.

Brian Lehrer: Carmella, thank you. Thank you so much. That's a wonderful story. Don't be a last-time caller. We'll get one more in here before we run out of time. Namina in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Namina?

Namina: Good morning, Brian. How are you? I will say in my dialect. [Temne language], Brian means good morning, Brian. [Temne language] means I love you, Brian. [Temne language] How is your morning going? I am from Sierra Leon, West Africa. My mother's dialect is Temne, T-E-M-N-E. My father is French-Ghanaian. When I homeschool my daughter, I will only speak the French and I speak Temne. She would look at me like I'm some weirdo, but I will explain, and then I will tell her in English.

She's 23 now, she has graduated and she will call her aunt back home. When they call her, she will talk. Normally before she will ask me, "Mama, what did they say?" I will explain. Then I believe when you start from the beginning when they're younger, I think it's good because they're not ashamed, they are children, they want to learn. I capture that.

Brian Lehrer: It's so interesting to bring up the aspect of shame if they start learning earlier and it's not so natural. Thank you so much Namina for your call and I love you too. Professor Carreira, give us the last thought in 15 seconds.

Maria Carreira: Oh, shame is so common, but don't let it get to you. It's the way people put you down and take your language away from you. I can tell you a number of students that tell me, "They want to take my language away from me." Don't let them do that. You speak the language the way you want to speak it, the way that means something to you, and you'll find great rewards in doing so.

Brian Lehrer: Maria Carreira, co-founder of the National Heritage Language Resource Center at UCLA and professor Emerita of Spanish at California State University at Long Beach. Thank you for being a wonderful guest on our segment about heritage language learners.

Maria Carreira: Thank you, Brian.

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