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President Trump: They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crimes, and some, I assume, are good people.

Brian Lehrer: Remember that? That was in July of 2015. It feels like forever ago, feels like yesterday. During his campaign for president, Donald Trump found his forever base by blaming America's problems on immigrants coming in from the Southern border, and promising to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it. Four years later at last night's RNC, we saw different stories of immigration being highlighted, stories about people coming from other countries down and out, and then succeeding in America. Trump's America. The one where I guess it doesn't matter where you come from as long as you start a successful small business, or get into politics. Here's is former ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley.

Nikki Haley: I am the proud daughter of Indian immigrants. They came to America and settled in a small Southern town. My father wore a turban. My mother wore a sari. I was a brown girl, in a Black and white world. We face discrimination and hardship, but my parents never gave in to grievance and hate. My mom built a successful business. My dad taught 30 years at a historically black college, and the people of South Carolina chose me as their first minority, and first female governor.

Brian: Nikki Haley, last night. Another example, here's Madeline and Catalina Louth, two first-generation sisters who started a successful small business in Illinois.

Madeline: My mother, being from Guatemala, escaping what she had there, growing up in poverty, and coming here to the United States, being able to fulfill her destiny and be somebody that she couldn't, there in her home country.

Catalina: They really instilled in us the sense of purpose, but also self-accountability, and that we had to strive to do the things that we wanted and it was up to us to make those things happen.

Brian: Very gauzy. You could hear the strings in the background, the whole thing, but should we ignore the fact that if their mother was trying to come to America today, she might not make it because Trump has made it all but impossible for Central Americans? Then there was Maximo Alvarez, the Cuban American businessman and supporter of president Trump from South Florida, who warned about the dangers of communism and told the story of people fleeing Cuba to seek refuge and a new life in America.

Maximo Alvarez: I am so grateful to America, the place where I was able to build my American dream, through hard work and determination. President Trump knows that the American story was written by people just like you and I who love our country and they risks to build a future for our families and neighbors. I may be a Cuban born, but I am 100% American. This is the greatest country in the world and I said this before, if I gave away everything that I have today, it would not equal 1% of what I was given. When I came to this great country of ours, the gift of freedom.

Brian: Beautiful story, beautiful immigration story, beautiful refugee story. The immigration story was so popular last night that some people got carried away and fudged a little bit, like Kimberly Guilfoyle, who said her mom was an immigrant because she was born in Puerto Rico. Catch that? Anyway, these immigration success stories are clearly an attempt to broaden Trump's appeal to voters with family outside of the United States for 2020, especially Latino voters who, like many voters, might've been horrified by Trump's zero tolerance border policies, which separated children from parents. There are other challenges and winning over this demographic, too. Latinos have caught and died from the coronavirus at an outsized rate. Unemployment, too. The unemployment rate for Latinos currently stands at more than 16% in 2016. However, Trump won 28% of the Latinx vote. Can he do it again, or will we get even more? With me now is Maria Hinojosa. You know Maria Hinojosa. She is host of Latino USA, and executive producer as well, an author of the forthcoming, Once I Was You: A Memoir of Love and Hate in a Torn America. It's coming out September 15th. Hi, Maria. Welcome back to WNYC.

Maria Hinojosa: Brian, so good to be talking to you, my friend. Hope you're well and hello everybody. Hello, my fellow New Yorkers.

Brian: Were you struck as I was, by the irony of celebrating immigration stories when trying to block so much legal immigration and refugee resettlement?

Maria: Those stories are very effective. I guess the question that was running through my mind was why didn't we see this at the DNC through a line where the DNC was pushing, pusing, pushing? Instead, you have the Trump administration doing what it does so well, which make up these narratives and just flip things around, and create a world that in reality, doesn't exist. Now, those stories are all true. They are real. Mr. Alvarez's tears, I understand them, but at the same time, Brian, for me, as I was watching the opening ceremonies or the opening speeches, and there was this talking about, Trump as the bodyguard of Western civilization and going back to the 1860s and Lincoln. I was like, who are these people and what is the narrative that they're talking about? There isn't an immigrant narrative there at all. It's very interesting that they forget everything that has happened in terms of the immigrant narrative and their responsibility in closing down the borders. That Guatemalan family, you said might not not? No querido Brian, they would not, because I am reporting on families just like theirs that are trying desperately and they cannot get in. They are stuck in Mexico, either on the southern border, in Tapachula, or on the northern border, in Juarez, in Oeste, and all of the cities along the Mexican northern border. Again, you hear those stories and you're like, I can see why Latinos and Latinas will fall to believing this narrative. It's very complicated. Of course, as you know, the relationship of Latinos and Latinas to the Republican party is very complicated and worthy of a lot more dissection. Again, I still always point back to, and so what are the Democrats doing? It's right there, right in front of you. What are you doing about it?

Brian: I want to open up the phones for Latino listeners in particular. If 28% of Latinos really voted for Trump in 2016, maybe some Latino Trump listeners are out there right now. You may call. Latino people who are extremely horrified by Donald Trump, you may call. Anyone else, how did you feel about the portrayal of immigration at the RNC last night compared to these years of the Trump administration or anything you want to say with Maria Hinojosa from Latino USA, 646-435-7280. 646-435-7280. Do you want to break down a little bit of that complexity, Latino relationship to the Republican party that you were just talking about? I think a lot of people who don't follow the numbers and politics so closely may not realize the 28% number from 2016 and just maybe surprised when they hear it.

Maria: I'm always concerned about the data in terms of data collection about Latino and Latina voters. Let's just say, even if you had 25% of Latinos and Latinas voting for Donald Trump, it raises a big question, specifically because of that tape that you started this segment, which is when Donald Trump made his announcement for his candidacy, coming down that escalator and insulting Mexicans and immigrants. Honestly, Brian, I just had such a visceral reaction to hearing those words because, he did begin his campaign on that assault, that hate speech.

Brian: And rode it all the way to November that year.

Maria: That's correct. How is it that you have Latinos and Latinas who knowing this, will continue to support Donald Trump? It's complicated. One thing we cannot dismiss is the presence of the evangelical voter amongst Latinos and Latinas. The evangelical vote really comes down to-- again, it's complicated, and there are some progressive wings of the evangelical church that are very pro-immigrant, but in many ways it comes down to, "Will you vote for somebody who is anti-abortion straight up?" You have that sector. You have a sector of the Latino population that is like Southern Texas, that is old school Republican party, that votes with the party, and of course, there's the whole issue of, "Is this the Republican party? Is this where we are at now?" This is the Republican party, which is for me why it was so challenging to watch last night, because for many journalists, and I've been talking to a lot of Latina journalists in specific, the issue of white supremacy within the convention, within this administration, from the mouth of this president. How do we square that with what he is doing vis-a-vis Latino and Latina voters? As I have said, in terms of the Democrats, Bernie Sanders laid it out for them. He gave them a playbook of what to do to get those voters. It would be, in my view, so easy for the Democratic Party to go after this vote, and yet, what you're not having, in terms of the Republican National Convention is a conversation of, "Where were Latinos and Latinas? Where were they?" No, they were there. It's a jumbled up world, and again, Donald Trump and his administration, they do very well with this kind of confusion, having just read Mary Trump's book over the weekend, I'm looking forward to interviewing her. You understand that this chaos and confusion is exactly what they thrive off of, and so you have people say, "He really is pro-immigrant." No, not at all. Not in policies. Not at all. Not in terms of people's lives. Not at all.

Brian: Manuel in Spring Valley, you're on WNYC. Hello, Manuel?

Manuel: Hi, Brian, how are you? Good morning and thank you for your show.

Brian: Thank you.

Manuel: For the guest that you have in here, I was born in Venezuela. I'm proud to say that I'm a Venezuelan American citizen, registered Republican. I consider myself a proud Republican. I'm not agreeing with Mr. Trump, in some of his policies. He's not my cup of tea, but if you say that we confused, perhaps some of them, or many of us are confused about the policies of Donald Trump regarding to immigration, but between Trump and Biden, I'd rather both for Donald Trump and because his international policies. You remember, Obama, the photo opportunity with Raul Castro, as well returning $4 million of the Ayatollah's , that concerned me. I don't want that policy to continue to be apply if Joe Biden win the election. On the other hand. American have to remember or Latin American US citizen, you have to remember that Donald Trump don't call the shot. The Congress, he has to go through Congress. Therefore, here, the laws are well established, and regardless don't like it or not, the Congress will have the final say. Thank you, Brian.

Brian: Thank you very much, Maria. You want to talk to my Manuel or react to Manuel?

Maria: Yes. Understandably, if you have experienced something like the Hugo Chavez experience in Venezuela, or you have had family there, this is very personal. I would say to this gentleman, that while I understand where he's coming from, he talked about Donald Trump's policies on immigration. I would say there are no policies except to shut it all down. This gentleman would not be allowed into the United States right now. He would not. What would happen is that he would be told. He certainly would not be able to make it in by plane unless he's extraordinarily wealthy, and then he needs to recognize his own privilege in this conversation, but I met people who had traveled by land from countries like Venezuela, and they were stuck in Juarez, they cannot get in. It's very interesting and again, this is hard. I don't like saying this, but it is once you've got here and you've made it, it's very easy to say, "Okay, yes, close the door behind me, I'm in." That's just not the roots of what this country says its roots are. In my memoir, Once I Was You, I deconstruct this all. The Republicans and the Democrats have created this false narrative about immigrants, immigration, refugees, like we are a problem that needs to be solved. Immigrants, I am one of them, proudly born in Mexico and proudly defined as an immigrant for my whole life and so is my husband from the Dominican Republic. The narrative of this country is that we are open and accepting of immigrants. The truth is, is that in the last 50 years basically, the guy who did most in terms of opening up was actually George H.W. Bush in terms of actually increasing the numbers of refugees and increasing temporary protective status. That was a narrative of the Republican party back then, which was to grant Central American refugees in particular, a sense of solace here. What's going to happen with this Republican party? I don't know. It is, again, I continue to put it back into the hands of the Democrats because this is theirs to lose. How is it that many more Latinos will vote for Donald Trump? I spent a lot of time speaking with them, trying to understand them. They are a part of our country. I am a journalist. I need to report about why they feel the way they do. Again, in terms of the Democratic party, it's what are you doing to assure that Latinos and Latinas are going to identify with your party, and your candidate, and that another fast one won't be pulled because there's responsibility on the part of Obama and Biden in terms of deporting millions of undocumented immigrants who were not, not, not, at all criminals.

Brian: Natalia Anastoria, you're on WNYC with Maria Hinojosa. Hi, Natalia.

Natalia: Hi, I'm so excited to be on with you, Maria. I admire you and you give us a voice. I completely agree with what she's saying. A lot of people-- I went to a high school in Queens, giving a shout out to international high school. All the students were immigrants, and I was really saddened to see during the 2016 election, a lot of my friends supporting Trump and we got into it. I went crazy on Facebook. I was living in Washington, DC at the time, and I couldn't understand the lack of understanding on foreign policy. A lot of what happened to their families and the reason why they were able to come was because of the TPS, and all the war in El Salvador, and everything that happened in Central America. Obviously, I studied international relations at Hunter and I was able to learn about that, but I was hurt, deeply hurt that we forget. Then you get a citizenship, you come here and now you all of a sudden become an American. Yes, you are an American, but you're also an immigrant, and you have to ask yourself, how did I get here? I always actually say, my story is that I may not have crossed the border, but I overstayed my visa. I got adopted by my aunt, and because of that, I had a citizenship, but now those options are not available to so many people. Just because I didn't cross the border, I did overstay my visa, and so I identify with people who come here, and who have a story of illegal immigration, or sorry to use that word, or just coming to, in a way that is not available because of our policies. That is hurtful to me. I feel like last night, one of the quotes that I can't forget is they'll disarm you, they'll empty the prison, they lock you in your home, and invite the MS-13 to live next door. The Republican, Gaetz, what he's saying is Latinos are the MS-13, and that is not true. Thanks for letting me share this. It obviously hits home and thank you Maria for all the work that you're doing, because I follow you and you give a voice to us. Thank you.

Maria: Oh, thank you. Look, I think-- you know I was thinking as she was speaking about my experience in Mississippi recently. We, at Latino USA, did a documentary about the area of Central Mississippi, Brian. This is like the heart, deep Mississippi, little, little towns out there, where they have the poultry processing plants, and were the majority of the people there speak other languages. Spanish is their second language. English is their third language. They didn't just arrive in Mississippi. It wasn't like they were, suddenly like, "In the highlands of Guatemala, the most gorgeous, most beautiful lush area of the world, I'm going to up and move to the flat lands of Mississippi," which by the way, are beautiful. No, there was a whole process of recruitment of Latino and Latina workers. That's how we end up in these places. It is not, in some places, the border crossed the community. In Southern Texas, all that was Mexico, up until 1848, and then with the flash of a pen, gone. By the way, Texas Rangers stealing Mexican owned land, like there was no tomorrow and then instead, what do we have? The Texas Ranger's a TV show and they are heroes. There is a lot of complexity in terms of this very complicated relationship in terms of immigrants in this country, Brian, and I think there's a term that I hope many of us have come to understand. For me, I actually had to wrap my head around what is it to be gaslit? What is it when people are gaslighting? What is the experience of being gaslit? That's what I experienced when I was watching the convention last night, is that a narrative is being told that is painting a picture, but the reality is something very different. Then you're thinking, "There's something wrong with me. There's just something wrong with me that I'm not getting it. He really is good on immigration. He really does love us." The thing is that then just think about the image of Donald Trump throwing paper towels at Puerto Rican people, who were suffering without electricity after the hurricane. Whatever you're seeing, please match it with reality, and to that first caller from Venezuela, how? How do you match those two things up there? How? The children crying, the ones that I know right now who are still crying? How?

Brian: Carlos in Manhattan, you're on WNYC, Hello, Carlos?

Carlos: Hi, Brian. Thanks for having me on and thank you too Ynez for such insightful comments. I just wanted to say that when we say Latinos, we really have to be careful to not group up everyone who speaks Spanish and come from a Latin American country as a one-size-fits-all. South Americans have proven for the past decade that they are extremely conservative, and they tend to lean conservative, so people who come here pursuing the American dream, they don't come here to argue against it, they come here to comply with it. I am not the least surprised of Latinos being for Trump, even though I personally am completely against him. I'm Colombian and I'm leftist, so there is. I want to say that about being Latino, here.

Maria: The interesting thing, Brian, is that Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is a leftist and she is probably the most interesting in terms of young people, politician, not just Latina. She is not an immigrant. Her parents are Puerto Ricans, which again, you're not an immigrant if you're from Puerto Rico, because you're a part of the United States, but she is a leftist. On the one hand, we have somebody like your Venezuelan caller, who may be solidly in the Donald Trump camp, I wonder about his children, his grandchildren, will they identify more with the new era of politician who again is solidly leftist by no-- she is a Democratic Socialist. That part of the Latino Latina complexion, and to this gentleman, you're right. We now have a generation of Mexicans from New York. When I got to New York in 1979, there were like 10 of us. Now, we have Mexicans who were born raising their children here, like me. You have Mexican Americans on the southwest border. You have Cubans in Miami, you have Hondurans in the Bronx, you have Salvadoreños in California. Very, very different. You cannot, and yet we do, say Latino and talk about this in a large mass, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. What we need Brian is more journalists like you having this kind of a conversation so that everybody, not just Latinos and Latinas get to thinking about what we're thinking because we are the largest non-white potential voting group right now. We are only going to grow, and so what happens in terms of Latinos and Latinas affects all of us because we're not going anywhere. We are so much a part of you. That's why I just want to say thank you, Brian, to the work that you did today. Thank you for having me on, and I hope to get to come back and talk about my book- hint, hint- but the work that you do all the time for representing all of us New Yorkers.

Brian: Please consider this an on the air invitation to come back when your book comes out called Once I Was You: A Memoir of Love and Hate in a Torn America. Is that just next month, coming out in September?

Maria: September 15, but we're doing a massive pre-order push so please come and pre-order I'm begging you. [laughs]

Brian: Maria Hinojosa, also the host and executive producer of Latino USA.

Maria: A big hug, Brian. Thank you.

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