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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer, WNYC. Let's say you're a president of the United States and you see one of your keys to re-election as getting a lot of people not to vote by mail. You go out every day and you discredit voting by mail. I guess there's a certain logic to it. But then someone points out to you that a key to your re-election also includes older white people in Florida, likely to vote by mail during Coronavirus, who are in your electoral base. That's different than, say, the younger more Latinx people who might vote by mail in Nevada. Suddenly your message about mail and voting becomes more well nuanced.

Donald Trump: Florida has got a great Republican governor, and it had a great Republican governors. It's got Ron DeSantis, Rick Scott, two great governors. Over a long period of time, they've been able to get the absentee ballots done extremely professionally. Florida is different from other states. In Nevada, where you have a governor, he said, "Let's just send out millions of ballots," and the post office cannot be prepared. [sound cut]

Brian: Welcome to the latest wrinkle in mail and voting politics. You will no doubt be hearing more of that kind of talk, state by state, good guy, bad guy going forward. We'll talk about national politics now including that and including the ongoing negotiations over a new coronavirus relief bill as they debate whether to renew the $600 a week of enhanced unemployment benefits that expired last week.

One thing to keep in mind about this like with so many things is the disparate impact. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the current unemployment rates for black, Latinx and Asian Americans are all around 14% or 15%. For white Americans, it's just 10%. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, considering who his caucus represents surprised a lot of people yesterday by taking himself out of the talks. People are reading this quote as an indication that McConnell and enough of his Senate Republicans might accept an extension of the $600 a week enhanced unemployment benefits, after all, after saying they wouldn't.

Mitch McConnell: Wherever this thing settles, between the president of the United States and his team, they'd have to sign it in the law and the Democrat, not insignificant minority in the Senate and majority in the House is something I'm prepared to support, even if I have some problems with certain parts of it.

Brian: Senator Mitch McConnell yesterday. With me now, two advocates of extending the $600 relief and for lots of other things, Rashad Robinson, President of the Civil Rights Group Color of Change and Anna Maria Archila, co-executive director of the advocacy group, the Center for Popular Democracy. Rashad and Anna Maria, welcome back to WNYC.

Rashad Robinson: Thanks. Thank you, Brian.

Anna Maria Archila: Thank you so much.

Brian: Anna Maria, how do you understand that Mitch McConnell clip and what its signals is taking place behind the scenes especially with respect to the $600?

Anna : I think Mitch McConnell knows that there are millions of people who are desperate to have the continuation of pandemic unemployment insurance because that is the only way that they will be able to put food on the table, pay rent and keep their families afloat in an economic crisis that was caused by the inept managing of coronavirus by the Trump administration. I think he understands that without these lifeline people will go through incredible hardship and we will see massive evictions and we will see hunger and it will be in his hands. These will be his legacy. Really this is the result of people rising up around the country and demanding from their senators real economic relief.

Obviously, the president wants to make sure that he can say that under his administration, people didn't have to lose their homes and their ability to feed their families. Democrats have been holding strong saying that they're not willing to simply take a piecemeal approach of just extending unemployment insurance or whatever other measure by a little bit of time. They're demanding a comprehensive relief package that meets the scale of the crisis and the urgency of the crisis.

Brian: Rashad, the implication is being taken by a lot of people out of that McConnell clip to be that president Trump is willing to extend the $600 a week. If the real negotiations now are between Nancy Pelosi and the White House, not between Pelosi and the Senate, this is much more likely to happen. Is that how you see politics?

Rashad: I mean, that is absolutely how I see the politics. The fact of the matter is that the president cares about winning his election and has not been even throughout his whole short-lived political career has not been as defined by some of the very specifics of Republican ideology and has been willing to move all over the place as long as it suits him with white supremacy and other things being sometimes underlying principles.

What I will say, and I think is really important here that we're dealing with, is that they don't have anyone else to blame. The president has been a master at blaming other people for problems placing the burden or the problem on other people besides himself. Right now, he has no one else to blame for the economic insecurity.

I don't want people to take this as some benevolent outreach. The $600 a week to individuals when corporations have been getting huge breaks throughout this whole process and have been getting all resources that have been redistributed. At the end of the day, still means that communities are really being kept in limbo. We do not know how much longer they're actually going to extend it if they do. We know that the weeks and months of fighting to actually get this extended means that we haven't been able to focus and engage on other things. We've been able to be forced into a bunch of fights about things that should have just been table stakes, things that should have been done anyway.

Yes, I think the president doesn't want to go into an election cycle with this over his head. At the end of the day, all of these problems are a result of decisions that he have made. He has manufactured these problems time and time again, and he's done it hand in hand with Mitch McConnell

Brian: To amplify your point, it makes sense to me that the president would support the $600. His base is non-college-educated working-class, white voters. Anyone of any background in that education and labor category would be especially dependent on the $600 to pay their basic living expenses. It seems to me to be in Trump's interest to be for it. Is that part of what you're saying, Rashad?

Rashad: That's absolutely what I'm saying. I'm saying there's a way in which some of the tenors of white supremacy that can make people choose some aspects of their identity, their whiteness, their hierarchy of that over theeconomic interests that may allow for Republicans to give huge breaks to corporations as long as they are keeping their foot on black and brown people in much harder and much deeper ways.

None of that all goes away if people just can't feed their families. If they just don't have money, and they just don't see those jobs coming back. It may not mean that folks are going to turn and vote for another party. It means that it will deeply depress his enthusiasm. We're already seeing that in his poll numbers. If anything, Donald Trump pays attention to his poll numbers.

Brian: One of the rare cases where class might actually trump race politically. On to Maria, I mentioned at the top of the segment that the top line disparate impact, unemployment state, basically Latinx, black and Asian Americans all have an unemployment rate now that's about 50% higher than white Americans unemployment rate. How does that inform in your opinion, what's needed in this bill beyond the $600 to help narrow the disparities in the American economy?

Ana: That's a really important question because the reality is that the pandemic and the economic crisis unleashed by the pandemic can expose the ways in which our society is constructed. The fact that communities of color are incredibly vulnerable. Black and Brown communities, Latinx communities, native American communities are incredibly vulnerable to not only illness but also economic disaster.

This crisis has imposed incredible deaths and in black and Brown communities, because people have lived lives without access to healthcare, because people do dangerous jobs, because in the middle of the pandemic, people have to venture out to bring food home, because people are doing dangerous jobs.

The measures that are necessary need to address the most vulnerable. That means we need to make sure that people not only have unemployment insurance but also that those people who do not qualify for unemployment insurance also have a lifeline. There are 11 million undocumented workers who have been excluded from all the federal relief, and they are the same workers that are doing the essential work of cooking in the backs of kitchens, of farming, of transporting food, of cleaning streets, taking care of children and elderly.

The Democrats, we have worked really hard to make sure that the Democrats pick that fight to make sure that excluded workers are included in some form of cash assistance. We also have worked really hard to make sure that small business owners get real relief. The PPP program has been a disaster. It has been abused by large businesses and corporations and at the same time that small businesses in Latinx and brown communities and black communities have not been able to access these programs.

We're pushing for grants, not loans to make sure that the smallest businesses that are really where the wealth of black and brown communities and generations is really expressed. We're working really hard to make sure that there are small business relief programs that are included. Finally, the unemployment insurance expired on July 31 so did the eviction protections that were included in some of the Federal packages across the country.

Eviction moratoriums are expiring. These weekends, that PPP program for small business through private banks is expiring. There is a real cliff that communities are facing everywhere. The package needs to provide a set of economic reliefs that are interlocking. The 600 unemployment insurance, cash assistance for everybody, grants for small businesses, and obviously access to health care and access to testing. Without this, we're never going to be able to get back on our feet.

I want to invite people to look at a website called mitchbetter.com.Tomorrow there's going to be a National Day of Action across the country with unemployed workers and small business owners are marching to their senate offices to say Mitch Better have my money, we are the economy. On a playful twist on Rihanna's song to say, the next COVID relief package needs to put cash in the hands of people and the money that they're negotiating about is money that we have all paid through our taxes and so Mitch Better have my money.

Brian: Mitch Better, make America Mitch better than it is. My guests are Ana María Archila, co-executive director of the Advocacy Group, the Center for Popular Democracy and Rashad Robinson, president of the civil rights group, Color of Change, and there is so much that we're trying to cover that our time is going by really fast. But we can take a couple of phone calls for them at 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280, or a tweet, a comment or a question at Brian Lehrer. We have a Mitch McConnell related caller. Let's see how Mitch better, Mike in Manhattan is than any other caller. Mike, you're on WNYC, hello?

Mike: Hi, Brian and your guests. I've been following the story really closely since the House passed their bill 11 weeks ago. It seems that McConnell who is this master tactician in Washington is really in a tough spot because he has 20 members or so of his own caucus saying they won't vote for anything to give any more money to the American People in terms of unemployment insurance. In places like Florida, unemployment insurance max is at $250 a week. People can't feed their families on that. As your guests have pointed out, that's going to create a huge backlash.

What's amazing to me, what's fascinating to me is that McConnell and the President knows that going into an election cycle, they can't have consumer spending stop and the economy crater. But McConnell doesn't have the votes in his own caucus. Hejust stepped aside and said very directly to his credit, "I'm leaving it up to minority leader Schumer, the House Speaker Pelosi, and the President's representatives [unintelligible 00:14:43] and Meadows to come up with an agreement, then I'll say I'll sign on to it."

He has no choice, which is a horrible position for him to be in, but I don't have any sympathy for him. But it's just so unusual to see him in such a position where he's so inadequate and has to just live with it.

Brian: Not holding the cards. Mike, thank you very much. I have a feeling our guests generally agree with that. In fact, I'll point out, Ana Maria, people may remember that you were one of the two so-called women in the elevator back in 2018, who confronted Senator Jeff Flake and urged him to support an FBI investigation of Brett Kavanaugh's alleged sexual assaults. Now people are going, "That Ana Maria." It seemed to affect Flakes's position on whether to do that, after the video of your elevator, and Katherine went viral.

I bring that up in relation to the caller because I see you were also part of a protest that went to Mitch McConnell's house recently regarding the $600 versus what he was advocating be given to corporations. You can respond to the caller anyway you want, but also maybe describe that protest and the contrast you were trying to draw.

Ana Maria: Well. The reason why we went to McConnell's house is the same reason why I confronted Senator Flake in the elevator. Is because these lawmakers make decisions in a vacuum. They hide from people, they talk to lobbyists, and fail to really grasp the responsibility they have to govern by listening. By going to Mitch McConnell's house, by taking advantage of these chance encounter that I had with Senator Flake to make him listen to our stories, we remind each other that actually democracy belongs to us and it lives with our efforts, with our actions, with our demands, to be listened to.

If we don't do that, then those who have lobbyists and powerful, and abilities to donate to campaigns then dominate the conversation. You can see it in how the Republicans made sure in the first relief package to give massive, trillions of dollars to large corporations, in exchange for a little bit for people. Our democracy is very broken and it will continue to be broken if we don't force our stories in front of their faces.

Tomorrow's action is the same. Is about getting the stories of workers, of small business owners, of people who have been excluded in the faces, in the realm of where senators live their lives. Mitch McConnell had a bill that Nancy Pelosi presented to him two months ago, well, May 15th. That is more than two months ago. That's 50,000 deaths ago. They sat on it and they let the crisis get worse and they let the virus spread across the country. They thought that maybe if we wait this thing will just disappear and they failed to act and now we are here. People are facing a cliff that will shape their life right now, and probably the lives of the next generation.

Brian: This is WNYC FM, HDN AM New York, WNJ TFM, 88.1, Trenton, WNJP, 88.5 Sussex, WNJY, 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO, 90.3 Toms river. We are in New York and New Jersey public radio with a few minutes left with Ana Maria Archila co-executive director of the Center for Popular Democracy and Rashad Robinson, president of Color of Change. Marjorie in Brooklyn, You're on WNYC. Marjorie, thank you so much for calling in.

Marjorie: Hi, good morning to you all. I just basically have a comment to make. As a retired New York City police officer, I'm very fortunate to have a pension. I currently, I'm employed as an executive protection team member in a big corporation. I'm very blessed in that respect that I'm not struggling like so many New Yorkers.

Quite frankly, I'm getting choked up right now, talking about that because I've seen in my community so many people go into food banks, requesting food, and I've become a sustainer of the city harvest and as well as for you guys. But there needs to be some real dialogue between both parties, which is disgusting right now that, "You know what, let's give people $400 a month just to make ends meet."

One of your callers made an excellent point yesterday when they were saying that Republicans were saying, "Okay, well, we can possibly make this $600 retroactive." Someone said, "You know what? I can't tell my kid in a month, I'm going to retroactively feed you."

Brian Lehrer: Absolutely.

Marjorie: It's so sad. That's my point, but thank you for taking my call for all this.

Brian: Marjorie. Thank you. Thank you so much. Rashad, do the Republicans have somewhat of a point in your opinion on those Americans for whom unemployment benefits exceed their working incomes? If that could be eliminated in a more narrow way than just ending the $600 for everyone, even below that line, would that make sense to you?

Rashad: I am old enough to remember Hurricane Katrina when the floods broke the levees and the manufactured decisions flood by bad decision-makers turned into a life-altering disaster and major corporations came in and reaped the rewards. I'm old enough to remember 2008 when the financial crisis hit and Black people and Brown people lost tremendous amount of wealth that they had built up against all sorts of oppressive systems in their homes as their houses were stolen and banks were bailed out and corporations were bailed out.

We only end up in these conversations around nickel and diamond when we're talking about everyday people in mainstream. But there seems to be always tons of money and tons of opportunity for the biggest corporations to reap tons of rewards and benefits from a country that's been built by a workforce that is never been given their full fair share. To the extent that there are these conversations about whether or not some people are making more on unemployment insurance than they were making before.

It always seems like we are focusing on people at the very bottom of the food chain while giving huge breaks, huge benefits, huge portions of release to those at the top and never actually monitoring how that money moves around the economy. What we're watching is billionaires getting more and more money, more and more resource during this economic crisis, and people literally starving.

The thing I think is really important is that far too often, we talk about the people who have been oppressed and targeted in active voice and we talk about the systems in passive voice. What I mean is we will say, Black people are less likely to get loans from banks, instead of saying banks are less likely to give loans to Black people. We will say that Black people are dying from COVID instead of decisions of corporations in our government are killing Black people in this country.

Black folks in Black communities, Brown folks in Black communities are not vulnerable. We have been under attack. We have been targeted, we have been exploited. We need to focus not simply on the outcomes of inequality, but the inputs and how the choices this country continues to make puts us in harm's way.

The path forward, yes, we have to deal with the short-term, the $600 payments. Yes, we have to deal with all the ways in which we need to make sure we extend benefits. We also have to recognize that the reason why we are in this situation is because we have made a set of choices in this country. It has built a safety net, that has put people in harm's way, that has given us this outcome that we are currently experiencing.

If we learn anything from this moment is that we have to make better decisions and different decisions moving forward, in terms of who our elected leaders are, in terms of how we hold corporations accountable, in terms of what we demand. We just don't need people to have to be in survival mode. We want to create an economy and a society where people can actually thrive.

That is actually why I think it's so important whether it's the work that Ana Maria and CPD are doing to mobilize people, whether it's the work we're doing and holding corporations accountable. Whether it's the collective work of fighting for Black businesses and Latino businesses and other businesses that have been put in harm's way. It's ensuring that the government works for all of us and ensures that all of us have an opportunity to be able to reap the rewards of the richest country in the world and not just a few at the very top. I think that that's what we're dealing with in so many ways that this crisis has exposed, but we won't get out of it if we don't actually make different choices and create different rules.

Brian: Rashad, to that point about who the leaders are and who they represent, as we run out of time, and you have come on this program so many times to talk about racial inequality and what would make more racial equality at the corporate level. We've talked about a lot, also at the government level. I just want to give you a chance to react to a couple of things that President Trump said in the very detailed and specific interview that Jonathan Swan from Axios did with him the other day. Trump actually seemed to say he has done more for Black Americans than John Lewis, or LBJ. Here's the comparison to John Lewis.

Trump: He didn't come to my inauguration, he didn't come to my State of the Union speeches and that's okay. That's his right. Again, nobody has done more for Black Americans than I have. He should have come. I think he made a big mistake.

Brian : Nobody has done more for African-Americans than Donald Trump. Here's the comparison, in conversation with Jonathan Swan, with LBJ.

Trump: I did more for the Black community than anybody with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln. Whether you like it or not, people say, "Oh, that's interesting."

Jonathan Swan: You believe you did more than Lyndon Johnson, who passed the Civil Rights Act?

Trump: I think I did, yes.

Jonathan: How possibly did you-

[crosstalk]

Trump: Because I got criminal justice reform done. I got prison reform.

Jonathan: Lyndon Johnson-

Trump: I've done things-- Well, ask-

Jonathan: He passed the Civil Rights Act.

Trump: How is it worked out if you take a look at what Lyndon Johnson did?

Jonathan: You think Civil Rights Act was a mistake?

Trump: How is it worked out? Because frankly, it took a long time.

Brian : This is low hanging fruit I realized, Rashad, but it deserves a response. Would you like to respond to that in any way?

Rashad: I absolutely believe it deserves a response. I hope that people all around the country believe that the response will happen in November. Get your friends and your families in motion because that's the way that we have to respond to that. I could spend time going line by line, but for anyone who believes what Donald Trump is saying, they don't need me to explain to them. I think that they probably need some sort of medical professional help, to break whatever psychology they have allowed themselves to get inside of that makes them think that what Donald Trump says, has any root in reality.

The idea that Donald Trump thinks that, with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln, that he did more than LBJ, that he did more than John Lewis. These are things that are meant to distract us, I think, from what actually needs to be done and that is focused on building the political and cultural power to not only put the policies and practices in place that will unlock real potential, but also create the wave in November that will bring forward a new way of doing business so that more of us can participate in the riches and the prosperity of this country.

Brian: Well, we're over time, but Ana Maria, if you're bursting, you could say something too, before we go.

Ana: We're coming in November. This is what we need to do. This is what we all know is essential. I could not have said it better than my brother Rashad here, so see you in November, Trump.

Brian: Ana Maria Archila, co-executive director of the Advocacy Group, the Center for Popular Democracy, and Rashad Robinson, president of the Civil Rights Group, Color of Change, we always appreciate when either of you comes on with us.

Rashad: Thank you.

Ana: Thank you.

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