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Brigid Bergin: It's The Brian Lehrer Show at WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin, reporter in the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom. Now, a conversation about spirit days. You know what I'm talking about? We've got spirit. Yes, we do. We've got spirit. How about you? Are your kids in pajamas today? Are they dressed like their favorite book character, wearing a hat, silly socks? Are their clothes on backwards?

If you're a school kid, a parent of a school kid, or a teacher, you might have school spirit, but you certainly have spirit days, and a lot of them, often several days in a month, not just major holidays, or a homecoming week, and you probably have an opinion, maybe more than one, about whether this is community-building fun, or overwhelming, unpaid labor. What seems to have started as a way of building team spirit in high school has spread all the way to preschool, where it's not the kids getting all these outfits together.

It's the parents, probably the moms. I know this myself. What about the teachers? Is keeping track of these spirit days and decorating their classrooms accordingly part of the job? Well, Anne Helen Petersen, a former senior culture writer at BuzzFeed, who now authors the newsletter Culture Study, on Substack, decided to go beyond mere annoyance and frustration at the added labor, and ask where it's coming from and what effect it's having. She joins us now. Welcome back, Anne Helen Petersen.

Anne Helen Petersen: Thank you so much for having me.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, we want to hear from you. Spirit Days, do you love them, hate them, love them but think there are too many of them? Does the grade level make a difference? What is the wackiest Spirit Day you've been involved with? Did you have to dress your kid like a 100-year-old for the 100th day of school? I hear that's very popular. What was the most fun? Give us a call at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692.

I promise I will not do any more cheering and clapping on the radio. Anne, for people who love Spirit Days, what's the main appeal of them?

Anne Helen Petersen: Well, I think it just breaks up the tedium. This is why, and a lot of listeners, I think, will remember, if they grew up in the United States, this is part of high school. '80s Day, or School Spirit Day, those sorts of things, very standard. Those days have now spread and multiplie, in really amazing ways, I think, to all the way down, as you noted, to preschool. I think some schools still only have a handful of days, but a lot of schools have dozens of days.

Sometimes too, it's-- Every Friday is pajama day, or if you live in a place that has a really strong sports culture, like Kansas City, I guess, every single Friday, you dress in the color of the Chiefs, that sort of thing. It's just a lot to remember.

Brigid Bergin: Who are the main objectors here? Are we mostly talking about the adults?

Anne Helen Petersen: I think that kids, a lot of things, they just go with the flow. Who wouldn't want to wear pajamas every day?

Brigid Bergin: It sounds pretty good to me.

Anne Helen Petersen: The bigger problem, I think, is that it's usually moms who are taking on this extra labor of remembering, "Oh, this is the day that I have to dress up this kid," and also, usually procuring 100 little puff balls that you're supposed to glue to your preschooler t-shirt in order to wear something for 100 days of school. I think for teachers, too, there's the management of expectations, that teachers have to dress up themselves.

Also, if a kid forgets, they have to manage the disappointment as well. That's why I wanted to talk to teachers about their thoughts about these days.

Brigid Bergin: Did you find any information about how many of these days there are in a typical school year?

Anne Helen Petersen: Every single school is so different. Also, the number of days changes a lot. What I do know, and I think this is interesting, is that these days have become more popular over the course of the last 10 years. I think, actually, even more popular post-pandemic, because they are a really effective way of increasing attendance. A lot of schools are trying to, especially in the winter, make sure that kids are showing up. I get that. That makes total sense.

What I heard from a lot of teachers is that, "Oh, if we have a problem with attendance, that's a structural problem. Let's think about the actual solutions instead of this band-aid that is actually putting more labor on both parents and on teachers." Also, in a lot of cases, it's highlighting socioeconomic divides.

Brigid Bergin: True. When you talked about how you wanted to find out what was driving these Spirit Days, you did talk to a lot of people. You talked to 150 teachers from around the country, and I want to get into some of what they told you. For one thing, I was surprised that social media actually plays such a big part in the proliferation of these Spirit Days. One teacher wrote you, "I do think Instagram, TikTok, teacher influencer culture is a bit to blame for all of this. I call this Teachers Pay Teachers' lifestyle creep." First, what is Teachers Pay Teachers?

Anne Helen Petersen: The best way that Teachers Pay Teachers has been described to me is like Etsy for teachers. If you are short on a lesson plan, which a lot of teachers-- Because they're overworked, there's so many reasons why you'd be short on a lesson plan. You can go on to the site, and with your own money, you can buy a lesson plan. Sometimes, that lesson plan will have really cute workshops, or worksheets, that sort of thing.

That, I think, has contributed to this idea that every single thing that you do in your classroom should be really cute and special in some way. That you, as a teacher, should be funding this, it should be Instagrammable. You can see how this is bleeding over from other parts of life. I think that it does create this real pressure to make school delightful at all times. If you are exhausted, if you've been teaching for a really long time, if you're burnt out, that is something that is really hard to maintain, but there's still that pressure.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, are you a parent, a teacher, a high school kid, how do you feel about Spirit Days? Do you love them, hate them, love them, but think maybe we've gone a little too far? We want to hear from you. The number is 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. Let's go to Lisa, in Western Connecticut. Lisa, thanks so much for calling.

Lisa: Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. I respectfully disagree with the speaker. I love Spirit Days. I'm a working mom. It's hard to remember to do everything when they come around, but I think my kids work so hard in school, that I think it's really fun for them to have something creative and exciting to do. We did the 100 days of school last year, my kindergartener dressed up as an old man, and he had a kick out of it. I think it's really fun.

I think we work these kids really hard and I think it's great for them to have opportunities to be silly and to just celebrate the achievements they're making in school, and for the parents to be a part of it.

Brigid Bergin: Lisa, do you have any Spirit Days that really stand out in your mind for your kids?

Lisa: Well, we recently did for the 100 days of school for first grade, me and my son had to take like 100 pieces of something, and make a shirt. We made a big heart with little 100 pieces. It was intense, but it was really, really fun. My youngest wanted to be involved too, so we made a shirt for him. They still have the shirts, and they loved it.

Brigid Bergin: That's great. Lisa, thank you so much for calling. That is a pro-Spirit Day caller. We appreciate hearing that. Anne, I want to get back into some of the how and the why of this, and it seems it's part of modern child-raising. Kids aren't coming up with their own spirit-building activities anymore. They're playing with their friends without supervision in the same way.

One teacher wrote, "Here's what I think-- The school day is too long, the school year itself is too long, there is not enough recess, there are not enough special classes, stuff like art, gym, and music." "There's too much-standardized testing, there's not enough joy at school." This teacher concludes that, "I'd rather my school had 50 more minutes of daily recess than ever do another Spirit Day ever again." Theoretically, dressing up doesn't take time away from all that studying, right?

Anne Helen Petersen: Well, theoretically, right? Dressing up takes time. It is just is a matter of whose time. That's why I think the teachers that I talked to, who teach in high school, or in middle school, were a little bit more ambivalent. They're like, "It's not a big deal, the kids themselves can decide if they want to dress up or not." "We usually have somewhere around 40% percentage participation."

It's more that, when you get into these younger classes, someone is doing this labor. I really appreciate that the previous caller was like, "I like doing this." Absolutely. Lots of moms like doing this, but not every mom likes doing it, has the wherewithal to do it, has the time to do it, has the resources to do it. I think sometimes, it gets to this larger question of who has the time to be "enriching" their kids' experience in school? Something that's more equitable is, as one of those teachers said-- What if we had music class in school?

What if we had art class in school? What if we had longer recess? For me, at least, I had all those things when I was in elementary school, because that was before those programs had been cut. I also had no Spirit Days, but my memories of elementary school were always of having a lot of fun. I didn't feel the need for them to be infused with delight in that way.

Brigid Bergin: I want to go back to our phones. Let's go to Veronica, in Queens. Veronica, I understand that you are a teacher.

Veronica: Hi, how are you?

Brigid Bergin: Good. How are you? What's your thoughts on Spirit Days? [laughs]

Veronica: I'm well, thanks. Every day I wake up to go to work, and I'm here for the kids. I'm 100% here for the kids, in every aspect. However, when it comes down to these spirit days, oftentimes, it's coming down through the pike. It's scheduled in the administration, and then the teachers are usually the last ones to know when this solidified date is. The notices have already gone home to parents, and the teachers in the classroom are usually like, "Oh, Spirit Day is on Thursday? Or, "Spirit Day is on Friday?"

Then meanwhile, if you're in a grade that's a high-step state testing grade, you have to lose the period. Then, obviously, when you come back to it, or a date, you come back to it, you have to reteach the previous content and then teach the new content. Then you're also up against a date, when the state test is going to be. The previous person said, "Yes, just give them recess. It's in school, it's within school hours."

It's something that's within our capabilities, but when you're removing instructional time and you're placing more pressure for a teacher to teach that content, to solidify state test scores for a school or a district, it is counterproductive. We want the kids to have fun, but at the same time, we're up against the clock. You take away a period, or you take away a day to wear blue, or dress like the Grinch, it's going to affect the end result. Then if you're in a city school, it's the only result. It's twofold.

Brigid Bergin: Veronica--

Veronica: As much as I love it and I'm here for the kids-- It takes away from instructional time, and that's the end of the day.

Brigid Bergin: Just for context, what grade do you teach?

Veronica: I teach 4th grade. If you're in an elementary school and you're in a K-5, that 4th-grade state test score is like your average median score for the entire school, and it also determines where those kids are going to go to middle school. You take a day away to dress like the Grinch, or to have a celebration, it's going to affect something along the lines. It's unfortunate, the kids should be having fun, because they're children.

Brigid Bergin: Veronica, thanks so much for calling. It's great to have a teacher's voice as part of this conversation. Anne, I'm sure you agree, given the research and reporting that you did for your piece. I'm wondering how much of the proliferation of these Spirit Days is related to the pandemic, and remote learning, and this is a way to counter that lack of contact that some of these kids and teachers went through for so long.

Anne Helen Petersen: I think that's definitely the case. None of the teachers told me that they've seen the number of days explode post-pandemic, but I think in general, teachers are cognizant of the ways in which there's been a move to try to make the experience of school more exciting post-pandemic. Especially in public schools, because there is this tension of, "Oh, if we don't make public school amazing, we're going to lose some of these kids to private instruction, or charter schools," or whatever it is.

I think that it shouldn't be the job of the teachers, the administrators, to try to compete, have a cute-off, with other schools. [laughs] School is great, learning is great. I also really sympathize with the teacher who just called in and said, "This is a distraction." There should be things in school that are fun, but then also, there's all the stuff that a teacher is expected to get done. If they don't get it done, they are critiqued for that as well.

You're trying to make these teachers truly do it all, in terms of-- Be the utmost and instructional excellence, but also have an Etsy-perfect classroom that is a delight for students, as well.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to have to leave it there. Anne Helen Petersen writes the Culture Study newsletter on Substack, and is the author of the book Can't Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation, and co-author with Charlie Warzel of Out of Office: The Big Problem and Bigger Promise of Working From Home. Thanks so much.

Anne Helen Petersen: Thank you.

Brigid Bergin: I'm Brigid Bergin, and this is The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Thanks so much for listening.

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