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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. On our show, we've talked several times about New York's cannabis legalization process and what not just legal purchasing will mean but also equity, what that should and could look like in the Empire State as these businesses go online. There was what the legislature called the Marijuana Regulation and Tax Act, which passed on March 31 last year, which not only legalized weed for sale and consumption, it requires the state to "make substantial investments in communities and people most impacted by cannabis criminalization to address the collateral consequences of such criminalization."

That's a quote from the actual law. The next step in that process is on the near horizon now, and the state is one step closer to fully legal state-regulated cannabis dispensaries opening up. On August 25, the Office of cannabis management will begin accepting applications for conditional adult-use retail dispensary licenses. In other words, you can open a store. 100 to 200 of these licenses will be awarded to people who either have a cannabis-related conviction, prior to when the law was passed in March of last year, or are close family members of someone who does.

Now people interested in obtaining a license must own a qualifying business or nonprofit. We'll explain that. With me now is Chris Alexander, executive director of New York's Office of Cannabis Management, who will walk us through the application requirements. Director Alexander, thank you so much for coming on. Welcome to WNYC. Are you there?

Chris Alexander: Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: There we go. Now we can hear you. Sorry about that, if that was on our end. Jump right in here. How will you decide who gets these first 100 to 200 licenses, I understand there's a scoring system.

Chris Alexander: Absolutely. Appreciate the lead-in here in identifying some of the eligibility requirements requires that we prioritize those who've been impacted, but also as regulators we're very about how we build this market out. What we've added to that requirement that somebody has been in prohibition and its enforcement, what we call justice-involved, is that someone also has experience owning and operating a business.

What we're going to come from this process with are folks who have been impacted by prohibition, but also have already developed the tenacity and other skills required to operate a small business in the state of New York as a dual eligibility piece, therefore, eligibility into the card program. In addition to that, what we will be evaluating really is their success in operating that legal small business.

Whatever the type of business had been looking at how well they operated, how well they were able to maintain compliance with whatever regulatory structure existed for that business will all be part of our review. We're looking to, as you said, open the application window on August 25 to get these licenses issued, and these dispensaries operational.

Brian Lehrer: On August 25. You broke up for a minute there as you said the number. August 25, is when this license application process officially opens in New York state. People get the acronym, their CARD. It's conditional adult-use retail dispensary license, a CARD license. Listeners, we're doing this segment because we imagine some of you will have questions. Some of you want to apply to be dispensary owners, to participate as entrepreneurs in this new sector, this coming sector of the New York state economy.

We can take some phone calls for Director Chris Alexander at 212-433-WNYC, especially if you have a question about the process. 212-433-9692, or you can tweet your question @BrianLehrer. I guess that to some people who haven't been following this, it's going to sound either counterintuitive or just very different from what you usually hear. In this case, if you have a criminal record, a certain kind of criminal record, it's actually an advantage for getting into business rather than a mark against you, right?

Chris Alexander: That is Correct. It's specific to, of course, marijuana offenses. As we ended prohibition last year, one of the key, as you mentioned in the lead-in, steps that the legislature took was to make sure that those who had been impacted would not be left behind. We've seen similar steps taken for end of prohibition of alcohol, where operators who have previously operated illicitly in that moment, were also able to transition to the regulated market with the acknowledgment that one, the policy that had been put forward was one that was ineffective and didn't work, but also there are folks who are operating and have operational experience that's necessary to build a strong market.

The legislature put in that legislative intent of the law, that clear direction to the office and it's one that we've been really focused on living up to. Additionally in our equity definition, other groups that are prioritized here are small farmers. We've been licensing our conditional cultivators for the last several months now. Those small farmers, distressed farmers, most of them have started to already cultivate the adult-use cannabis that is going to line the shelves of the adult-use dispensaries.

We have really taken a sensitive approach to what the legislature and the governor has directed us to do, and we've made sure that those really small businesses really have a strong opportunity to compete here in the market that we're building.

Brian Lehrer: Are there certain convictions for marijuana-related offenses from the past, that give you that advantage, and some that don't like if people were convicted of selling really large quantities, some kind of major drug trafficking offense, then they're not eligible for this special upgrade?

Chris Alexander: The only previous marijuana conviction that makes folks ineligible is a sale of marijuana to a child. That is one of the disqualifying offenses under Section 137 of the law. Those individuals who have been previously convicted of that offense would not be eligible for this opportunity, but anybody who has been convicted of a New York state-specific marijuana conviction, not convicted of that offense, does have eligibility here.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you for clarifying that.

Chris Alexander: Yes, I would also just emphasize that it is a New York State conviction and not another state or federal conviction, as the office here is working to really undo the harms that have occurred in this state.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, if somebody had a marijuana conviction in New Jersey, but is a current New York resident and wants to apply to run a dispensary, they do not get an advantage from that.

Chris Alexander: They could still get an advantage through other priority requirements, but not for this particular program. They could still apply when we open up additional dispensary license applications or other license-type application, but not through this particular program.

Brian Lehrer: Can you clarify that part about owning a qualifying business or nonprofit? Is there an intersection here of people who have marijuana convictions and currently already run a qualifying business or nonprofit that you're looking for?

Chris Alexander: Absolutely. One thing, [inaudible 00:08:36] if I believe that we actually have the applicant pool available to us as we roll out this program. Over the last 30 years or so, New York found a way to arrest almost 1.2 million people. Many of those stories are folks who themselves were thrown up against the wall as a young person, and then still went on to go on and build a successful business, sometimes because they were unable to get meaningful employment.

One thing that we have been very aware of is the fact that the population that has been impacted is significantly broad, and it's not homogenous. We'll have lots of folks who have been impacted as a young person, or even as an older person were impacted directly, but we also expanded the eligibility to capture family members, acknowledging that the impact of a conviction doesn't just sit with the individual, it impacts the whole family.

For example, a parent who has a child that's impacted, now that child may not be able to get employment, as I mentioned, but also restrict access to education funding. We acknowledged that full impact. Our justice involvement definition, not only captures the individual with the conviction but the parent, the dependents, the child, the spouse of a person who has a conviction.

Now, the piece that turns on here is that that justice-involved individual must also have the experience owning and operating the business. We are aware of, really, the broad impact that prohibition has had but also know that as we're building a market, we need to have a strong foundation. Having folks who have business experience is really going to give us the foundation that we need whilst still meeting the principle and the intent of the law.

Brian Lehrer: We have a few minutes left with Chris Alexander, executive director of New York's Office of Cannabis Management, who is walking us through the application requirements and process for owning a dispensary, a store, basically, that will sell legal marijuana products. That application process officially opens on August 25th. We've been talking, so far, primarily about the social justice aspects of prioritizing who will get those dispensary licenses. Now, let's take some phone calls for you. Mark in Nyack, you're on WNYC. Hi, Mark.

Mark: Hi, Brian. Thanks so much for taking my call. I had a question for your guest with regards to the eligibility requirements and the criteria that you're looking at. You mentioned that one of the primary criteria is that the person would've needed to have run a small business successfully, but given the income inequality and wealth inequality and some of the communities most affected by cannabis criminalization and the fact that the people most affected by it have been incarcerated, might not have had the opportunity to run a small business, how do you reconcile not maybe giving those people an opportunity with the criteria that you're using to approve these licenses?

Chris Alexander: I appreciate the question. The beautiful thing about our law is that equity is not a thing that we're trying to achieve, it's the thing. Our priority for those who've been impacted by prohibition and those from communities that have been overly policed over the last 40 years of marijuana enforcement will continue. The priority given here to those individuals will also extend to additional license types.

We felt prudent, however, that in this initial round of licensure for these foundational dispensaries, that we would find people in the pool who've also been impacted, who have that necessary experience to make sure that the market that we start off with is one that is strong. What I'd also add is as I've been doing work around enforcement and ending prohibition for a long time, what we've found is that the turn of enforcement did not happen on wealth, it did not happen on socioeconomic status, the turn occurred solely on race and on how people appeared to law enforcement.

We acknowledge that people of color are not a monolith, there are people who definitely lack those needs, and our office is committed to delivering support resources to make sure folks have access to actual grants and zero-interest loans that we'll be rolling out in the next year, but also that there are folks with some wealth who despite their socioeconomic status, were still swept up in enforcement. We're sensitive to the differences in that group. I think the prudent choice of making sure that folks have some experience was one that was necessary to make sure we have a strong market.

Brian Lehrer: Huh, because a number of our callers are asking the same question, and I was wondering too after your previous answer, isn't requiring folks to already have a business discriminating against those who were the most harmed by the previous prohibition because they were prevented from, really, entering the economy?

Chris Alexander: No, I don't think so. I don't think it's a discriminatory approach. If anything, I think it's acknowledging folks who, despite the odds, still went out and built successful, strong businesses. Again, it's just acknowledging that there are, even within the applicant pool, individuals who, despite that conviction still went on to do some pretty cool things and do some good work.

We're just acknowledging that difference in the applicant pool and identifying that there's some benefits of getting those folks this early opportunity with the understanding that as we move forward, those who did not or were not able to have their own businesses or build up businesses that they would've liked to build will still get support from our offices as they work to enter New York's cannabis market.

Brian Lehrer: Duke in Jersey City, you're on WNYC. Hi, Duke.

Duke: Hi, Brian. Your guest is Mr. Alexander?

Brian Lehrer: Yes, Chris Alexander, executive director of the New York State Office of Cannabis Management. Go ahead.

Duke: My question was, does he have any information on how to obtain employment in this new industry? Not so much [crosstalk].

Brian Lehrer: In other words, short of being an owner.

Duke: Right. I was just curious, maybe he would know something.

Chris Alexander: No, absolutely. I'm working currently with our partners in state government and with our higher education institutions across the state to develop educational programs so that folks cannot only get employment but get meaningful employment in this industry. We're developing with the SUNY and CUNY institutions in the state of New York, job training and skill development programs right now.

Just a couple of weeks ago, the governor announced a $5 million grant going to these institutions so you can access these classes to develop some skill sets and then go through a process where you get job placement with operators that come online here in New York. The Department of Labor is also doing some workforce development programs. They're not being run specifically out of our office, but if you reach out to our office, we can definitely connect you to those programs.

Brian Lehrer: Thereto, any particular help or advantage for people who have past marijuana convictions before the legalization law was passed?

Chris Alexander: I'm not sure specifically on the SUNY and CUNY front, but absolutely, as part of the requirement for all licensees is an attention to ensuring that your workforce is also comprised of people who've been previously impacted. Even if it's not going through the program, at the end of the program, employers or licensees, from our perspective, do have an eye to making sure that their workforce is representative of people who've been impacted by prohibition, specifically people with arrests or convictions for marijuana [unintelligible 00:16:41].

Brian Lehrer: Duke, I hope that's helpful. Thank you for your call. Marie in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Marie.

Marie: Hi, Brian. Long-time listener, first-time caller. I have a question about the proliferation of storefronts. I live on the Upper West Side, but I see them all over the city. There are storefronts that are essentially selling cannabis paraphernalia. They might have some snacks in the window, but essentially, they're pot shops. They're selling pipes and everything. Some of them, in fact, in my neighborhood on the Upper West Side, is actually already selling marijuana.

They've now gotten a foothold into all of these storefronts, some near schools, by the way, and houses of worship. I wonder what the impact of those stores that are now already open and running and many of them selling pot will have on this group of this 100, 200 cohorts who will already be at a disadvantage because these illegal shops are already operating in the city. I'll take the response off the call. Thank you so much.

Brian Lehrer: Mary, thank you. We have another caller who we're not going to have time to put on the air but has a related question, which is, will some of these existing smokeshops be able to convert to dispensaries?

Chris Alexander: Let me answer the first question. I think I am equally concerned and frustrated by the proliferation of these smokeshops in particular. Our office is the newest state agency, and so we're currently building our capacity, but one thing that we have been very clear with in our direct communication to operators of these shops is that they are not sanctioned to sell adult-use cannabis, they are not allowed to sell adult-use cannabis, and they are operating in violation of New York State cannabis law, of New York State penal law, of New York State tax law, and of New York City's municipal law.

What we've been doing across the state is empowering municipal governments here in the city as well to take action. I'm very pleased that the NYPD, just yesterday, towed and seized a bunch of trucks that were engaged in this illicit activity. My big concern-- Of course, you heard the language I used earlier about making sure that folks who have previously participated in the illicit market have an opportunity to transfer over, but folks who are operating now in this gap as open storefronts are really creating a lot of confusion for New Yorkers.

When somebody goes to these shops, they're unclear if a shop is operating under a license, if the products being sold are safe and are tested. What we have tried to continue to make clear is that they are not. The products that are in these shops are not tested, they're not safe. We don't know what's in them. We don't know what you're purchasing. I implore your listeners as well as all New Yorkers to not visit them.

On an enforcement side, we have, as we're building up our capacity, not only sent cease and desist letters to these operations and let them know that their operation puts in danger their ability to secure a license from us to operate an actual adult-use cannabis store, but we've started to empower localities to take the necessary steps to shut these down using their existing municipal law. These are not stores under our jurisdiction operating with our blessing instead, they're operating in violation of local health law for example.

I know that New York city's department of health and mental hygiene has their inspectors going into seize products and identifying folks engaging in this sale that are putting public health at risk. I'd say one more thing, just to emphasize a point here. One of the main components or reasons behind ending prohibition was to create a safer environment for cannabis consumers so they have safer, more regulated products, but it was also to invest resources back into communities that have been most impacted.

What these stores are doing has direct violation of everything that all the advocates and incredible leaders fought for, which is to create an industry that would invest back into New Yorkers, into communities most impacted. We share the concern. What I believe is that when we put up those dispensaries, those dispensaries will be selling safe and higher quality products and will be doing so in a way that is rooted in communities and we will be able to take those customers away from these illicit shops and have them visit more frequently our regulated state-of-the-art dispensaries. I know that we'll be competing with them for some time until we're able to shut them all down, but that is their end. They will be shut down in the near future.

Brian Lehrer: We're out of time, except for you to tell people where they can find out more information about the dispensary application process and how to actually start to apply once this officially opens on August 25th.

Chris Alexander: Absolutely. Thank you so much for the time, Brian. Folks, you can go on to cannabis.ny.gov, that's cannabis.ny.gov. On our website, we have step-by-step instructions on how to complete the applications, the documents that you'll need to procure to submit your application. It is a fully online application that you can complete yourself. You don't need to hire expensive consultants to do so.

We do need business records from the previous business, as well as the certificate of disposition to show the conviction that makes you eligible for the offense but there's a full application mockup on the website, as well as webinars on our YouTube page and on the website to give folks actual step by step instructions on how to apply. I thank you for the opportunity and of course, encourage everybody to go to cannabis.ny.gov to get all the information needed to apply.

Brian Lehrer: Chris Alexander, executive director of New York's office of Cannabis Management. Thanks so much for your time today.

Chris Alexander: All right. Thank you, Brian.

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