[music]

Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. 47 days until Election Day. Voting, of course, is underway already in many states. Battles are continuing in court and in the political sphere over attempts to expand the opportunity to vote versus attempts to limit it. Here's a new one today that you might not know about yet. This is USA Today. Headline, Trump Appointees Torpedo Report on Threats to Minority Voting Rights During the Pandemic.

That's the headline and it starts like this, "The US Commission on Civil Rights spent months analyzing threats to minority voting rights during the coronavirus pandemic, coming up with what one commissioner called a "behemoth" set of recommendations, but no one will see them. Conservative commissioners--" That commission is divided four-four so they can kill it, Democratic and Republican appointees.

"Conservative commissioners," it says, "recently appointed by President Donald Trump voted to shelve the report, its findings, and recommendations, even commissioners' statements. The commissioners who led the research provided a glimpse of the report's contents during an August meeting, noting it covers problems with in-person and mail-in balloting faced by voters of color, people with disabilities, and those with medical conditions that make them vulnerable to the virus. The full report, including what commission staff said should be done to overcome those obstacles, is not for public consumption, the commission said in a statement provided to USA Today."

With that as backdrop, Donald Trump and Joe Biden each held minority-focused voter events, campaign events this week, specifically Latino-focused campaign events. Trump at what he called a Latinos for Trump event in Arizona, Joe Biden in an appearance in Kissimmee, Florida. Despite Trump making a centerpiece of his administration cracking down on Latin-American immigration and despite his behavior after Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico, a new NBC News/Marist Poll shows Trump a few points ahead of Biden among Latinos in Florida.

The Pew analysis, looking back at the 2016 election, showed Clinton got 62% of the Latino vote statewide with Trump winning among Cuban Americans and Clinton winning among all other groups, but total 62% for Clinton. Trump leads slightly among all Latinos right now, according to this NBC News/Marist Poll. Cubans and Puerto Ricans, by the way, are the largest Latino populations in the state, but it's also very diverse. After criticizing Trump for his immigration, hurricane relief, and coronavirus policies as they impact Latinos at the Florida event this week, Biden weighed in on the eternal question of Puerto Rico status.

Joe Biden: I happen to believe states would be the most effective means of ensuring that residents of Puerto Rico are treated equally with equal representation at a federal level, but the people of Puerto Rico must decide and the United States federal government must respect and act on that decision.

Brian: That was about Puerto Rico status. Biden also linked the issues of Obamacare and Trump's pandemic response.

Joe: We worked to build on Obamacare and expand its protections so that more Hispanic people have access to high-quality, affordable health care that they deserve. Under the Obama-Biden administration, four million Hispanic Americans gained coverage, the largest gain of coverage of any group, but President Trump is still, still trying to rip Obamacare away from people in the middle of the worst pandemic in a century.

Brian: That was practically the only thing in the speech that Biden said he would do. Much more of it was about stopping things that Trump has done. What's gone viral online is when Biden was introduced by singer-songwriter and actor Luis Fonsi to Fonsi's 2017 reggaeton hit Despacito.

[song Despacito playing]

Luis Fonsi: All right.

[song Despacito playing]

Luis: There you go. Dance a little bit, Joe. Come on.

Joe: [unintelligible 00:04:36]

Luis: [laughs]

Joe: I tell you what, if I had the talent of any one of these people, I'd be elected president by acclamation.

Luis: [laughs]

Joe: Thank you so much.

Brian: By "any of these people," he meant Fonsi and Eva Longoria, who also introduced him, and Ricky Martin, who was there to support him as well. Joe Biden being introduced with Despacito for, I imagine, the first time and maybe it's the first time too that it's the lead-in to our guest for this segment, Julio Ricardo Varela, co-host with Maria Hinojosa of the podcast In The Thick and founder of the website Latino Rebels. Julio, thanks for coming on with us today. Welcome to WNYC.

Julio Ricardo Varela: Yes. I think it's the first time I've been introduced to Despacito, Brian.

Brian: For the record.

Julio: [laughs]

Brian: Did that moment go viral because it was cute or cringe-worthy or what was that?

Julio: Yes to all, I guess. I went on Twitter and said, "I'm not going to do Despacito hot takes."

Brian: [laughs]

Julio: I feel there are bigger issues regarding the community that need to be addressed because what that moment had is that-- what it actually fascinated me about that moment is that the Trump campaign, particularly with the Latino community, has actually been doing a very effective job in messaging for the voters that it wants to get. They're very responsive to Biden. I hate to say it, but they're also very, almost culturally relevant.

There's a team that-- I know some people in that campaign working out of Florida who have been constantly sharing things in response to what Biden is doing. In the end, Trump really doesn't have to win the Latino vote. He just has to neutralize it, right? That to me is the bigger pro-- The bigger issue here is it's a question of like, what is Biden doing? The notion that Trump in the middle of a pandemic that is disproportionately impacted the Latino community is still polling nationally in the low 20s.

In Florida, I would say more in the 40s. I'm kind of skeptical about that Marist Poll because it was only 137 likely voters. I feel like it's one of those examples of taking something that says Trump is winning by four points and not really looking at the data, but it becomes news, right? When you have people that aren't covering the community daily, they see the headlines, but they don't realize that that poll did look at it about a hundred-- It was a subgroup poll about 138 likely voters.

The margin of error was probably like-- I think it was like 8% or something. We have to be really careful. I do think that the Trump campaign is actually doing a very effective job in reaching out to the voters that it needs to reach out in the Latino community like conservative evangelicals, people who are coming from places where they feel that socialism had ruined their countries. It's quite effective. Especially in Florida when you have Venezuelans, Nicaraguans, of course, Cubans, and even Puerto Ricans who might align ideologically with Trump, he could still get 35% to 40% of the Florida vote probably.

That's where I think, but I also think my final button on this, I don't think Biden has to win Florida to win the election. That's why you see his campaign going to places like Michigan or Pennsylvania where there are significant Latino populations that aren't really been quartered in the past, yet the Biden campaign has been criticized by a lot of insiders, a lot of Democratic operatives for not really outreaching. They'd been seen as being a little bit too late to the game. There's a lot I'll share with you, Brian, so please let's go anywhere you want to go. [laughs]

Brian: You answered my first four questions.

Julio: [laughs]

Brian: I'm going to go home now and go to my next segment. No. Listeners, first priority on the phones for this segment, for anyone who is Puerto Rican or a Puerto-Rican descent, you be the political analyst here. What are Biden or Trump doing to win or alienate Puerto-Rican voters in Florida or elsewhere? 646-435-7280. Obviously, there are many Puerto Ricans in our core in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut listening area.

Those states are assumed not to be in play. If you're in touch with friends or relatives in Florida especially or any other swing state, you be the political analyst here. What are Biden or Trump doing to win or alienate Puerto-Rican voters in Florida or elsewhere? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. I throw it out that way to the listeners, Julio, because I'm going to jump now to my question six since you answered the first five.

Julio: [laughs]

Brian: I played the clip of Biden endorsing Puerto-Rican statehood if statehood were to win in a vote on the island. Does that issue move any votes in Florida or anywhere in your opinion?

Julio: Great question. First of all, I already knew that Biden had that position because we had published a Biden delegate from Puerto Rico who wrote an opinion piece about a month ago for Latino Rebels where Biden told him a personal story about why he personally supported statehood. I guess being a Puerto-Rican journalist, I'm like, "Yes, I already knew that, but I understand that the national audience might have not understood it."

One of the things that I'm hearing about that specific comment, having covered island politics, having covered the diaspora for years, is that he's still speaking from two sides of the mouth. It's not a clear-- It's like he's personally supporting statehood, but you do not hear the candidates say, "We will enact legislation if this plebiscite that comes out in November chooses statehood even though it's not binding."

He basically made reference to this notion of a self-determination binding vote that, to be honest with you, Puerto Ricans have been hearing for years out of Washington. I don't know if it will move needles. I did a Twitter thread while everyone else was talking about Despacito. I actually looked at the policy that came out on Tuesday. I actually read his positions and talking to a lot of Puerto Ricans in Florida because my family's down there, so I thought I know the community down there.

There were still questions about, "Why didn't you speak out against voting for PROMESA under the Barack Obama-Joe Biden administration? Why are you talking about auditing the debt when there's a movement to cancel the debt? Why can't you say the word 'colonialism'?" Things like that might have got people excited. I think there's two other things here, Brian, about just Puerto Ricans in general. I think people are tired. Puerto Ricans are tired of the paper towels motif by Trump. Everyone knows, Puerto Ricans know that Trump has not treated Puerto Rico well.

Brian: Paper towels, just for people who don't know, that refers to when Trump was there after Hurricane Maria. He maybe thought he was doing something nice for people. He threw out rolls of paper towels, but of course, it was so patronizing and demeaning.

Julio: Right. I think Puerto-Rican voters in Central Florida, at least the ones that I talked to, Democratics know that Trump has done-- he's not for anything, I think, Puerto Rico, right? He still appeals to those conservative, free market, evangelical Puerto-Rican voters and there are plenty of them in Central Florida that are like Biden has done nothing for Puerto Rico in 47 years. I'll give you one specific example I think you're going to love.

I have a friend who is a conservative commentator, Peter Vivaldi, out there, and he live-streamed a boat caravan of Puerto Ricans on a lake in the Orlando area this week like they did the one in Austin. There was a boat caravan in Orlando. What you see with Puerto-Rican voters who are Trump supporters, they're very excited for Trump. What you see, I think, with Puerto-Rican voters who are Democratic supporters who are voting for Biden, of which there are more, is that it's very pragmatic. It's like, "We have to get Trump out." I think if the Biden campaign went in Tuesday and just give a little bit more, there would be a little bit more excitement.

Brian: My guest, if you're just joining us, Julio Ricardo Varela, co-host with Maria Hinojosa of the podcast In The Thick and founder of the website Latino Rebels. Wendy in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Wendy. Thanks for calling in.

Wendy: Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I love your show. I also love Latino Rebels and In The Thick. I think that they give really important voice to the diversity of the Latinx voices within the United States and I really appreciate this segment. I think that Biden and Harris are really making an opportunity to build Latino support within the Democratic Party. I just feel invisible within the way that the campaign is performing its outreach.

I think that Biden is just not exciting younger Latino voters. I think about my goddaughter, who's a college student. She's 20 years old and she's totally not excited about voting for him or for Harris. What are they doing to outreach to the younger generation? I think that they're not taking enough advantage of the Latinx-elected officials that we currently do have such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Ritchie Torres from the Bronx or any number of people nationally that could speak to the diversity of our community.

Our community, I think, is being taken for granted. When they do focus on the Latinx community, it's often based on immigration or refugee issues. We are not encompassed within this idea of who is the working-class element or the middle-class element or small business owners. I just think that they are really wasting an opportunity here to build something that can continue to grow the Democratic policy positions in the future.

Brian: Julio, you got a fan on the line here. You want to talk to Wendy in the Bronx?

Julio: Yes. Wendy, first of all, thank you for the love and the Futuro Media love. Latino Rebels is part of Futuro Media that Maria created, Maria Hinojosa and In The Thick, so thank you, thank you. I also want to echo your comment. I've been hearing for months on this election cycle about specifically the Biden campaign, are they connecting with-- You have 32 million eligible Latino voters, right? The second-largest voting bloc after the white voting bloc.

We can get into issues of complexities of race and ethnicity. I don't like to say it's non-white because there's plenty of white Latinos in that community. I will say this. We have to realize that the Democratic Party needs to come to terms with the fact that that voting bloc is younger, is more politically engaged, is more progressive, is not turned off by the word "socialism." They're challenging, I think, the conventional Democratic thinking of what the Latino base was previously. There's a lot of focus on Florida because, Brian, I think it's American culture, right?

We grew up in the time of Castro, the Cold War, the Cuban exile community. It's become, I think, part of American political lore, but we're forgetting about Arizona. We're forgetting about Nevada. We're forgetting about Pennsylvania, where there's a significant Puerto-Rican community and their organizers in Pennsylvania who are like, "They're not reaching out to us and they're not reaching out to young people." I think Wendy is spot-on. I've written things in the past. I wrote this piece for The Atlantic as to what Biden can do from 200 from Bernie Sanders when it comes to Latino voters.

Bernie Sanders did tap into younger Latino voters. I think this notion of a pragmatic vote really riles up establishment Democrats. It's like, "Well, if you don't vote for us, you're voting for Trump." I'm like, "No, you can walk and chew gum at the same time." Give them something to get excited about. They will show up in November, perhaps in record numbers, if you just acknowledge that, if you just acknowledge that, Brian. I think Wendy's comment, I've heard it hundreds of times. The Biden campaign is saying that we are reaching out, but I don't know. "Is it too late?" is my question.

Brian: Wendy brought up and you brought up the many things that Latino voters are interested in. Fox News was making a point the other day of the fact that immigration ranked only seventh on a list in a Pew survey of Latinos nationwide on what issues people rank as very important. Immigration ranked only seventh on that list. Of course, we shouldn't have to say, but we probably should still say that Puerto Ricans are not immigrants as I hope everybody else knows by now. Regarding the many Latinos who are, it was still a relatively middling number.

59% saying immigration is very important issue to them, compared to the others above it on the list. I'll just go down this real quick from the Pew survey. Economy, 80% said very important. Next was health care. 76% said very important. Coronavirus outbreak, 72%, then racial and ethnic inequality, 66%. Violent crime, 63%. Supreme Court appointments, 64%. Climate change, 60%, and then immigration at 59%. 59%, it's still important, but it's middling compared to some of those other ones, especially pocketbook and personal health issues. I wonder what you make of that.

Julio: It's interesting because I do think the Trump economic message, even in the time of coronavirus, disproportionately impacting Latino communities, small business owners. It still has appeal with a sector of the community. It always is going to have an appeal. You can trace the origins of that community from Reagan to Bush to Trump. That's always going to be there and so that doesn't surprise me. What I think is not happening with the Biden-Harris output is a better understanding on how the pandemic has really just decimated Latino communities all over the country.

I feel that also political media doesn't understand it. This is where I get on my Futuro Media soapbox. You know this, Brian, because Maria has said this in the past, is that because political media is so white and affluent and privileged, they're not seeing the connections as to why you see these communities more severely impacted because of the essential workers, because of immigrant communities that are literally keeping us fed and keeping our economy at least buzzing.

What's missing, I think, with Biden-Harris is this public reckoning of that. Also, I have to say, even though immigration might not be a top issue right now, understanding Trump's policies are impacting the community. It just is really hard and I know the Biden campaign get bristles when I say this. As a political journalist, I don't think there has been a public reckoning of the Obama deportation strategy of which Joe Biden is part of that administration.

Yes, he apologized in Nevada with Jorge Ramos during the primary and admitted that things-- and he also told José Díaz-Balart of NBC News and Telemundo this week in Florida that not enough was done at the beginning. I see someone like Julián Castro, who was also part of that administration, admitting that he has evolved in realizing that that was a mistake. I think Biden-Harris, in the end, has to really come to terms and offer this very public moment that just says, "Yes, Democrats, we laid the foundation for this Trump policy and, yes, this is awful and, wow, this is appalling," and we see these connections.

That, I think, gets tied to the issues of social justice, economic justice. That to me, Brian, is a moment for the campaign, I think, to maybe awaken that realization in the Latino community. I think that would also be something that I don't understand like, "Just do it," because I think people will vote for Biden-Harris and feel like, "Okay, at least they're listening and we can move on." It's just too easy to just blame everything on Trump.

Brian: Let's take another call. David in Long Island City, you're on WNYC. Hi, David. Thank you for calling.

David: Hey, good morning, Brian. Thanks so much for your show and also Latino Rebels. I just wanted to really highlight this disconnect that exists in the Puerto-Rican community and the broader issue of immigration. As you rightly pointed out, we are ultimately citizens. Trump's rhetoric doesn't really offend a society that if you look at the common thread on the island, the most important newspaper, El Nuevo Día, which is called The New Day, it's very right-wing. It's very family values-driven by the Evangelical Church.

When I'm listening to your guest talking about the reckoning or the acknowledgement that the Biden-Harris campaign needs to do, I personally think that this is an element of our community that's already lost to us. We are very disconnected from the issue of Black Lives Matter. It cuts to the racism and colorism in our culture. It also frankly speaks to our macho culture. Everything that Biden does, which might be seen as an overture or even an acknowledgment of what's gone wrong, is really not very masculine.

Trump, with all his bravado and all of his vulgar behavior, that actually speaks very viscerally to elements of Latino culture, which provide "security and stability" for us. Whatever the Biden-Harris campaign does, frankly, will seen very hollow. We've got Ricky Martin out there who I personally love. Again, he is a gay male. This really for us is what guys like. It really proves the point that the most vulgar element of that common thread on the newspaper's website, it just shows this is where the Democratic Party is headed.

This also shows where the cut for the island is headed in the hands of these people. Long story short, I think it's a lost cause, right? Wherever we can just rally the base as the right-wing does among Latinos, I think that's really very important. Lastly, I will say as a Puerto-Rican person myself, I feel very overlooked and not considered in what the broader Democratic Party is doing. I would understand that I think they take our votes for granted. Those are some of the realities that we're dealing with.

Brian: What would make you feel not overlooked? What specifically could they do to make you more enthusiastic?

David: When I look at, for instance, the most important platform in Spanish television that is accessible to everyone, is not on cable news, which would be in NBC or in Telemundo. I do not understand why Joe Biden has not sat down yet with Jorge Ramos for Al Punto. That's the weekly morning show at 11:00 AM or 10:00 AM on Univision. That's the most serious discussion of politics and news, I believe, on Spanish public television and he's not there. Every time they bring Latinos for Trump on board, they stick to their message.

They are very aggressive. They are very forceful, and then we got apologists who bring all sorts of horror stories, which are true about what's happening at the border. The border is not the issue for people like myself, people who are Puerto Rican. We're a huge voting bloc, especially in places like Florida. They are just absent. I think they're afraid to have that discussion with a journalist like him to talk about these issues because, again, they would feel exposed because of their record on immigration.

Brian: Thank you for your call, David. See, Julio, we invited people to be political analysts and they're being political analysts.

Julio: The two guests that you had, these callers, they touch upon so many issues. I will say David's points about when you look at the Latinos for Trump base, I will be very honest, it's whiter. It's more affluent, more conservative. It's not reflective, I think, of Afro Latinos or Indigenous as much.

Brian: David mentioned gender, more male too. What would you say?

Julio: Yes. This is the point. One of the things-- I'm hoping that my Washington Post piece comes on later today or tomorrow. One of the things that Democrats tried to do with Trump in Florida is to make him this golden eagle, this leader, this autocrat. It backfired because there's a lot of people that come from Latin-American countries who feel offended that that's the way they're portraying this.

The maleness of the Trump campaign, it's very macho. That has appeal with a lot of Latino supporters, mostly men, who might be white Latino men or there might be people who aren't white Latinos who are saying that American success is based on white supremacy. David is absolutely right. Our community is our worst own enemy. We are not making the connections between immigration and Black Lives Matter consistently.

There is anti-blackness. There is racism in our community. The Trump campaign is very effective, like I said, in getting the voters that they need to get and it's mostly male. It's anti-Black. They're whiter. They're more affluent. They come from countries in Latin America that, "I could never have Castro and Nicolás Maduro here. They've turned Joe Biden into this-

Brian: - socialist.

Julio: Yes, socialist. What does Biden do? He's like, "I'm not a socialist," when, in fact, what you just said, Brian, I think he needs a little AOC in his life right now because AOC gets younger Latinos excited.

Brian: Don't people get the difference between Democratic socialism and Fidel Castro?

Julio: Yes, maybe, but I think-- Here's the thing. I always said no matter who ran for the Democratic Party, whether it was Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or Cory Booker, that the Trump campaign was going to paint anyone as the next coming of Fidel Castro. It's happening. It's effective. I think we're beyond that. I think what Biden is missing, and this goes back to the piece I wrote in The Atlantic, is just to really understand that there is this younger voting bloc that is very aware of issues in Latin America, very aware of what's going on Puerto Rico with the protests in the last two years, very aware of Mexico and its issues of corruption and Andrés López Obrador and dealing with coronavirus response.

You have this generation that literally follows both worlds, but we're still seeing a campaign that I still think is stuck in Latino outreach. It's still stuck in 2004. It's not even on the Obama level of 2008. I hate to be the bearer of the truth, but you heard two of these callers basically confirming. Those comments that they just gave, I've heard as a reporter for the last year consistently.

Brian: We have Leila in Miami calling in. She's Guatemalan American but wants to reinforce that point about gender. Let's see what Leila has to say. Hello from New York, Leila. Thanks for calling today.

Leila: Hi, Brian. Hi, Julio. Yes, I am Guatemalan Mexican in India from East India and I am in Miami Beach. I had to deal with the Cubans. There's some Cubans that are not Republican. For the most part, they are Republican and the Nicaraguans too because of what the Republicans have done for them in the past. What I find incredible is the man they associate themselves, with Trump, because of the macho culture. It's like 14% of all Afro-American men, not women, support Trump is that macho image, that successful image.

I used to be married to a German. I remember when I lived in Germany, I talked to a lot of people about the Hitler years. They told me that the people that wanted to be with Hitler was because they wanted to be in the successful part of the equation. I think that answers a lot to the male culture because females, most of the time, and especially in Latin America, were in charge of two generations: the older generation and the younger generation. We don't have time to start looking at cojones or balls.

We're looking at table without food, a roof that we might not keep. This is a huge disconnect. Biden is not getting it and Kamala Harris is not getting it and Julio is 100% right. 2004, it's like over a decade ago, almost. They have to do something. They really have to talk, at least to the women, and talk to them about health care, about education. Education is a huge thing for Latin Americans. That's how you get to the next step. Remember, UNICEF and WHO have done many studies on girls to get educated. Education is a tradition. The mothers doesn't have it, the children are not going to get it.

Brian: Thank you, Leila. Thank you so much for your call and for chiming in. Julio, we're running out of time. You want to address anything Leila raised?

Julio: Yes. Wow, I'm just blown away by all the three callers. I will say one thing in defense of what at least the Biden campaign has gone on record, saying that they do have a Cuban strategy, a Mexican strategy, a Puerto Rican strategy, a Venezuelan strategy, and that they do have a database of all these cell phones and they can understand if Perez is from Mexico as opposed to Perez from Cuba. I do think it does speak to a deeper issue of understanding the complexity of the Latino community in 2020. I do feel that Democrats still are-- they did not learn from Obama in 2008 and 2012 where he did pretty well with Latinos. I fear that a lot of the mistakes of 2016, Brian, are still happening now.

Brian: There, we leave it for today with Julio Ricardo Varela from the podcast In The Thick, which he co-hosts with Maria Hinojosa, and founder of Latino Rebels where you can read him. Now, I didn't know you have a Washington Post op-ed coming out. You mentioned it in passing. You want to shout out when it's going to be?

Julio: Yes. I sent it out to my editor yesterday. They liked it. They wanted me to look at the reasons why Biden might not be doing as well with Latinos in Florida. They liked the draft. If it's out in the next couple of days, it will. If not, I did write a piece for The Atlantic about Biden and Bernie Sanders that people can just google it. It happened a couple of weeks ago and it looks at some of the things that I talked about today.

Brian: All right. For those of you who didn't know Julio before, when you see that op-ed in The Washington Post, you can go, "Oh, that guy."

 

 

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