[music]

Brian: I'm Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We'll talk now with one of New York City's top new union leaders, Manny Pastreich who has just become President of the big Building Services Union 32BJ succeeding Kyle Bragg who's retiring. The union represents around 175,000 workers nationwide, many of whom work in New York buildings. They've been active, as some of you know, on things like supporting more housing development in the city. We'll get into that, better wages and benefits for workers at the area airports, and the new law in New York state called The HEAL Act, which Governor Hochul just signed on Friday, that should be getting a lot more attention than it's getting.

I think this is new, and it's supposed to force more access and more pricing transparency at hospitals in New York State. While Manny Pastreich may be new to the presidency of 32BJ, he is not new to the union. He was in the number two job and in fact, as a second-generation labor leader, the pinned tweet at the top of his Twitter feed says, "I learned firsthand from my dad Bill, how unions transform lives. He was an SEIU healthcare labor leader. I went to countless demonstrations with him, where he was often arrested for participating in civil disobedience." Let's meet Bill Pastreich's son, Manny who joins us now. Manny, thanks for coming on. Congratulations on becoming 32BJ's president and welcome to WNYC.

Manny: Thank you, Brian, for that introduction. It was actually meaningful to me. I'm humbled to take this on and excited.

Brian: First, a little about you before we get into the issues, what exactly did your dad do in the labor movement?

Manny: He founded and then led two different health care locals in Massachusetts organizing and then representing hospitals and nursing home workers.

Brian: Your tweet that said you went to countless demonstrations with him where he was often arrested for participating in civil disobedience, that happened a lot?

Manny: It honestly happened countless times. He really was, I'd say, at least in the modern era, someone who was very forward-thinking and pushing the envelope in terms of what he did as a traditional labor leader, but also being very involved in community issues, whether that was winning health care for the poor, and taking on-- He started in Boston, and then moved to Cape Cod as a healthcare leader and taking on the issues in the community. In traditional labor areas, yes, as well as community issues.

Brian: Out of curiosity, I'm sure our listeners would love to hear a story. One example, if you have one, that you remember from being a kid at one of those things that ended in the arrest of your father.

Manny: Again, ironically, I'm guessing we'll come back to health care. My dad was very, very involved. There was times when poor people literally could not get access to health care. If you didn't have insurance, you would be rejected at the door, unless you're walking in the emergency room. He organized the workers who were in those very hospitals as well as community members, because on Cape Cod there was only one hospital in all of Cape Cod, to force the hospitals to actually allow access and provide health care services to the community.

When he would get arrested, sometimes it was planned sometimes it wasn't. It was always nonviolent. Me and my brother grew up in the union. We spent the days, the evenings. When we went to the movie theater, my dad was talking grievances with people. He was a big family as a unionist.

Brian: I'll have a large grievance with salt and butter, please, at the movie theater. Did he prepare you for those moments? Would he say like, "Son, you're going to see the police take me away in handcuffs, you just go home and don't worry, nothing bad ever happens at Rikers Island or anything like that?"

Manny: I'm sure he did at the beginning, but as long as I can remember, we're just used to it.

Brian: Then you grew up and went to Harvard. Not people's first image stereotype of a labor leader for porters and handyman in buildings. What did you major in?

Manny: It was called Social Studies, and I actually wrote my thesis on labor campaigns studying the Eastern Airlines strike. My parents were separated, I grew up in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I literally went to school 10 minutes from where I grew up.

Brian: Went to the local college. Did you ever work in Building Services or right into the field of labor relations?

Manny: No, literally pretty much I had one job for nine months but my first real job was on the justice for janitors campaign working in Washington, D.C. as we went through an incredibly aggressive and smart and worker-driven campaign to take organized janitors starting in 1992, was when I began. That was my first real job.

Brian: Let's talk about the union, who are 32BJ's 175,000 members? What job distribution? How many in the New York area, and demographically, who are your members?

Manny: It's a really good question. When you have 175,000 members spread over 11 states, it's not a simple one to answer. Let me start with New York. We have 80,000 members here in New York City. They include residential, the folks maintaining and taking care of residential buildings, so the doorman, the porters, the supers, the cleaners in our office buildings, is the next biggest group here we have in New York.

We're really proud of the last few years to organize really almost 20,000 workers here in New York City. That includes airport workers like wheelchair attendants, airline and airport cleaners. We also have organized security officers. Typically work in office buildings, but other areas privatized security officers. Those are the main groups we represent up and down the East Coast as well as school employees. We have school cleaners and other school service folks.

Brian: If you're just joining us, my guest is the new president of the Building Services Union 32BJ Manny Pastreich. Listeners, we have time for a few calls in this segment. Not too many but if you want to talk about the state of the unions in New York and the US nationally, you can ask Manny about that and call on that. 32BJ members, you're invited to call in, we can talk about the top issues for the union that my guest, Manny Pastreich is into right now that we're about to get into affordable housing, construction hospital costs, being a building worker during COVID, or anything else related 212-433 WNYC.

One of your issues right now is promoting more residential construction in New York, I see. Mayor Adams is coming around to that more than when he first got inaugurated, and you know that many neighborhoods resist because of gentrification concerns, or people who want their areas less dense, or they want to stay with mostly more upper-class relatively private homes. I assume the more buildings get built, the more members 32BJ will likely have, so is that your interest in this?

Manny: I would say our primary interest for our 80,000 members here in New York City, the vast majority of them, like everyone else, have the same challenges as all New Yorkers of finding affordable housing. We represent folks on the job, that's our primary thing but the number 1 issue that our members talk about outside of their work issues is affording to live here in New York City. I have to say our primary goal is actually to support the building of more residential housing in New York City, and special affordable housing for really all levels of income but particularly those one and two-family working, mother and father working family folks that are struggling as rents increase.

If you look back, we really only built over the past 10 years, I think there's been almost 800,000 residents but we've only built like 200,000 new homes in the past few years. That's one reason that rents are escalating.

Brian: Well, what are the wages like these days for members of 32BJ? I realized there were so many different jobs that would have different pay scales but what would you say as a starting point for the listeners and for that matter, how much do building workers depend on Christmas season tips as part of their income as we sit here in mid-December?

Manny: We encourage all the listeners to support their residential doorman, porters at the Christmas time for the special services they provide obviously, taking care of buildings and really families from birth until the end of their lives. Our residential members hold a special place in the heart of New York City and that's something we are very proud of and our members take very seriously. Thank you for that plug. About over 80,000, 30,000 are residential members. I would say tips play a much smaller role for the other 50,000 who are cleaners and office buildings often going unseen, unappreciated, and in airports, in schools. Having said that, I'd say to answer your question, if you have a little bit of experience cleaner in New York City or a porter in a residential building, he's probably making in the low 40,000 per year, which is one of the best contracts in the country, which we're very proud of.

Brian: Still, that's not a lot of money. Low 40,000.

Manny: Correct. It makes it a challenge to live here in New York City. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Brian: I was just going to say one of the other issues that I didn't even mention in the intro is Mayor Adams's campaign against rats, which will include, as you know, later hours for putting out the trash only after 8:00 PM. Rather than after 4:00 pm. The rats have a shorter dinner hour. Does 32 BJ have a position on that?

Manny: I think the mayor has put a lot of effort into making people feel comfortable coming back to the city, addressing the issue that city residents have. We've really appreciated those efforts. The mayor's administration has worked with us very productively on this. I think that it obviously is a shift and nobody likes change. If you're the person responsible for putting out the trash and you had a shift changing it is hard. We've worked with the administration to actually have another option for buildings that want to opt into that, which I think they have until February to do so, to do it in the morning as well.

The administration worked with us really productively to address some of the concerns we have with the change. Overall, we're appreciative of what his administration is trying to do there.

Brian: Good. Is he working productively with you on his plan to ease the red tape for developers to build new buildings? Environmental laws is what's been in the news around that. Is he committed to union labor for new buildings? Some people say that pushes up the cost of development in New York too.

Manny: Ultimately, I think in terms of the cost of constructing new building, in terms of either whether you're talking about the building part or the maintenance part, over the long term, I think that the benefits of providing good jobs with benefits outweigh doing it the other way. It's good for the city, it's good for the tax base, it's good for the communities. He's been very supportive of that. Then we've done some big new developments. The city has approved that has use our standard as the standard wages and benefits. If you look at in Queens and other places throughout the city, we've been really happy with the mayor and the city council for their support for both new development as well as ensuring that it has fair standards as it's built and maintained.

Brian: All right, Fran in Manhattan, you're on WNYC with Manny Pastry, the new president of the union 32 BJ. Hi, Fran.

Fran: Hi, thank you for taking my call. I just wanted to ask the new president what he would do in a situation like what I have. I live in a doorman elevator building. I love the guys at my front desk. They keep me safe, they work very hard. I just found out that they lost all their health insurance because the management company, I think was in dispute with their specific local union, which I don't understand the details. Why we have these little subdivisions of unions, but my guys are also working double, triple shifts because they can't retain staff and that's impacting our security as tenants. Then the staff that they do hire are these temp workers from agencies or something.

I guess they don't have to deal with unions in that case. These guys just rotate in and out. We never have the same people at the front desk. They don't know who we are, they don't know who doesn't belong here. By the way, I won the housing lotto. I'm not a rich person. I happen to be very lower middle class and I won the housing lotto. I'm lucky enough to live in a posh building like this in Manhattan. I'm seeing what's happening and it's having direct effects on us. What is your job to make sure that my guys who are currently working today triple shift have no health insurance, and they have kids and families to support? What is your job to make that not happen because it's already happened under your watch?

Brian: Manny, do you know about this?

Manny: Obviously, I don't know the specifics, but I can say if you can get us the names of your guys, we are really-- when you look over the past few years, we have brought 5000 residential members, most of them in new development, but some of them in existing co-ops, condos, and rentals into the union. When they come into the union, that's exactly what we address. 85%, 90% of the residential buildings of any size are in the union. When they are, they-- I told you about the minimums we have.

We're very, very proud of our health care. Family health insurance, no premium sharing because that's important to our members, and other benefits as well, including an incredible training program which our residential members use, where you can grow from being a porter, a cleaner in a residential building all the way up to maintenance, plumbing, carpentry, and eventually become a super, and even a super that supports green buildings. That is what we do. It would be a whole conversation to talk about the challenges of organizing in this country, but that's what we do. Please send them our way.

Brian: We don't want to put Fran in the position of calling out her particular building on the air and suffering possible repercussions from that. Should we take that information off the air and pass it on to you?

Manny: That would be great. We would love their names and contact info.

Brian: Fran, names of some of the people in the building, as much as you feel comfortable giving, our producer will pick up and get that from you. To a larger question about healthcare. I see you're very involved in the Affordable Health Care for New Yorkers bill that just got signed by Governor Hochul on Friday, called The HEAL Bill, regarding healthcare costs and also cost transparency at hospitals in particular. Tell everybody, what does that bill do and what will it do for your members?

Manny: Yes, so one of the biggest challenges we've had over the past 20 years really, is the impacts of healthcare inflation in terms of our efforts to provide our members high-quality health insurance for themselves and their families. We've done everything we can to control costs. When you get down to it, 44% of our healthcare spending is on hospitals. If you look up and down, our average cost is three and a half times what the hospitals are charging the federal government for Medicare. That's how the "private market," which includes the city and state and other large employers works. We probably could dedicate a whole show to it.

First and foremost, I just want to say that when you talk about the doctors, the nurses, the folks that make hospitals run, we have so much appreciation for what they do every day, what they did through the pandemic. They are so central to the city. We are proud of the healthcare services that the city has available. Having said that, the prices that are charged for those services both vary, quality varies and we've made a real effort in coalition with other unions. DC 37, the teachers, even the nurses are part of our coalition to figure out how we make that health care more affordable.

First, through transparency, as you said, Brian. Ultimately, healthcare is becoming unaffordable, whether you're uninsured, whether you're a union member, whether you're not a union member. We have to figure out a way to provide that high-quality health care that New York is famous for at a price that everyone can afford.

Brian: Let's see. We're scheduled to run out of time because of your schedule, I'm told in about a minute. We have a couple of good-looking calls on the line if you have time to stretch a little bit. Here's a nostalgia call for you, I think, from Scott in Brooklyn. You're on WNYC with Manny Pastreich, the new president of the building services union 32BJ. Hi, Scott.

Scott: Hey, Brian. I walked a picket line with Bill Pastreich in 1981.

Brian: With Manny's father.

Scott: I'm sorry. With Manny's father. Right. I worked at Cape Cod Hospital that summer and the nurses went on strike in August and they closed the whole hospital down in August, in Cape Cod. We all picketed, and I don't know how long the strike lasted, but it was a big deal. I remember Bill very clearly have his son on a-- I got a big moment of Déjà vu. [chuckles] It was pretty exciting.

Manny: That's really nice. You bring a little tear to my eye, but you're also summarizing my childhood. [chuckles]

Scott: Yes.

Brian: Scott, thank you very much. Another one sort of like that. David in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, David.

David: Hi, good morning, and congratulations, president. My father-in-law is a former 32BJ member, and now a proud retiree. I'm calling because we were very close to, my labor union. I'm also with the public sector work very closely with Hector Figueroa. This issue is related to Puerto Rico. For instance, we know a lot of your members here from Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico has had many difficulties ranging from natural disasters to the ones that are manmade, which are the ongoing disasters.

Hector was very near and dear to us because of the work that he did to found an organization called Vamos and just work the clock for us many times during those issues. I wanted to know, what's your commitment to those kinds of issues outside of New York City, where your members hail from. Also what's your vision for new organizing specifically, not in just your sectors specifically, but supporting the non-traditional labor organizing and places like Amazon, like Trader Joe's, like Starbucks the [unintelligible 00:20:59], the Taxi Workers Alliance, et cetera.

Manny: Great. One of the things I've appreciated in my 24 years of working for 32BJ is the legacy that I've inherited. The legacy of Hector, the legacy of Kyle the legacy of Mike Fishman before him, but really the legacy of almost 100 years that this union has existed and raised standards, provided pensions and benefits. That is something that is very, very central to what I will continue and I'm dedicated to for all of our members.

In terms of the organizing, if you look back over the past 20 years of this union, we've organized well over 100,000 new workers in airports, in security, in higher education. It's something that we're very, very proud of, but it also has made us stronger along the way by having all those new members, and we're going to continue that fight. One of the places that we are looking to be supportive of, and we have in New York City is gig workers.

We've supported Taxi Workers Alliance and others to raise standards for those Uber and Lyft drivers. We've been supportive of the delivery efforts on that front as well. We will continue to help both raise standards for those workers who, by not being treated as employees lose out on many of the basic protection that traditional employees have. That's not right, and that's something we'll continue to support both in New York City and across the East Coast.

Then to answer your third question, and I didn't get to answer this for Brian, but our membership is majority Black and brown. A huge part of them are recent immigrants, and that is who we are in the essence of who we are. We will continue to support, as we have our executive vice president, Shirley Alba, has continued to support the work of organizing and representation of Puerto Rican unions as well as trying to make change in that country. We've continued to support policies on the federal level to relieve the debt and we will continue those efforts. Particularly in Puerto Rico, but really supporting the interests of all of our members, including our immigrant members.

Brian: Are there things you do, and I realize you've come out of a whole other generation meaning your father of being involved in the labor movement, so you're no stranger to diversity. As a father says, you follow Hector Figueroa as president of 32BJ, who obviously was Latino Kyle Bragg, who I think was the first Black president of 32BJ, who immediately proceeded you. I think you are white, so if you do anything, in particular, to remain culturally competent with respect to some of the needs of your members that might be more from lived experience than learned experience, how do you do it?

Manny: Well, I've worked my entire career with this union, and when I wasn't here, it was with the United Farm Workers. This is what I've dedicated my life to doing, and this is the place I want to be and the change I want to make. We're incredibly proud of both Hector and Kyle. Not only for what they achieved as the president but being a symbol of the life led as a Latino, as a Puerto Rican, and as an African American man and all the experiences in the union and without the union.

Particularly with Kyle as he's been saying goodbye to see what he meant to all of our members, but particularly our Black members. It's been inspiring to me and a learning experience for me. In this new administration, it's the most diverse set of elected leaders that we've ever had. Between our members, between our leaders, I have no doubt that we will both continue to be true and honest to our member's lived experiences.

Brian: Last question. It's a really interesting time in the labor movement right now as our last caller David was referring to. I think in New York and also nationally unionization in the private sector, meaning everything except government employees has descended so far for decades now as you well know in this country, but unions seem to be having a moment. Organizing your colleagues seems cool again for everything from Starbucks to Amazon to [unintelligible 00:25:53] as David brought up to adjunct college professors. Is it making a real dent?

Manny: If you want to look at the numbers, I would say of workers under contract, no, but if the way you start is with this incredibly exciting moment. When I looked at what happened in the Amazon warehouse and Staten Island, incredibly inspiring from ground up, no support from any other organization to go both believe and accomplish the first step of creating a union was a huge accomplishment. Starbucks, to me, is even more exciting. You have workers, really young workers across the country. It isn't even in any one place. I think over 200 stores have now voted to have the union.

There's been a number of strikes. Going from point A to point B with the labor laws we have, with the power corporations we have is very, very hard. That's why we're so proud of what we've accomplished. The change will happen when large numbers of workers come together. When young workers particularly take up the cause that is when we are going to get faster and bigger change. The signs out there are incredible. We still have to get over that hump when a big corporation fires workers, when big corporations closed stores. Those are big challenges.

Having said that, if we don't have the fight in this, we won't get there. There's some wonderful signs of having the fight in a lot more workers across the whole country than it really in my entire lifetime. It really is exciting.

Brian: Manny Pastreich, the new president of the Building Services Union, 32BJ. Congratulations on that post. Thanks for coming on with us. Good conversation.

Manny: My pleasure. Thank you, Brian.

Copyright © 2022 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.