[music]
Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. For the last 15 minutes of the show, we're going to stay on this topic more or less and ask a specific question. If you're a person of faith, any faith, and you support abortion rights, how do you respond to others who share your faith, who think it's not okay because it's taking a life? Give us a call, 212-433-WNYC. Have you had those conversations with your co-religionists on different sides of the abortion rights question? 212-433-9692.
Abortion rights have long been a vexing issue for some Catholic Democrats. President Joe Biden, being among the most public figures, obviously, in that group right now. The Washington Post reports, while as president, he has been an ally of abortion rights groups, he has also almost never used the word abortion, as though he finds it uncomfortable or politically risky to do so. Listeners, are you in support of abortion as a Catholic? If so, how do you talk to members of your community who are not? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. According to Pew, a survey they did, a majority of Catholics, 56%, believe that abortion should be legal in all or most cases, but that number drops to 20% for white evangelical protestants.
Reform Judaism endorses legal abortion. Some Orthodox Jewish groups do not. In Islam, ensoulment, as they call it, doesn't begin until 120 days into a pregnancy. According to the Fiqh Council of North America, an association of Islamic scholars, that would make abortion permissible, according to some scholars, though more conservative scholars believe that it should only be done to save the life of the individual carrying the fetus.
There are these divisions in Islam, in Christianity, in Judaism, how are you having these conversations with your more conservative co-religionists? I'll play you one example before we get to your calls. Just from earlier in the show, Kathleen Rice, Catholic Congresswoman from Nassau County, Democrat, who said she grew up with nine brothers and sisters. This is a little bit of the conversation that she had in her family.
Kathleen Rice: It was a difficult issue that my father and I differed on, but as a woman, growing up, certainly in a family that was at one point teaching me, what I believe, the Christian faith, to treat people like Christ did, which is the way that I was raised, but I was being raised at a time when women were fighting for and demanding more rights. My father, even though we disagreed, he supported me no matter what, and he respected my choices and my decisions.
Yes, there were times, when I was DA, when I was threatened with excommunication as some Catholic Bishops just did with President Biden, which I think is just ridiculous, because I would hold my Christian values and Catholic values up against anyone. For me, this is about treating women the same way men are treated.
Brian Lehrer: That's some of Kathleen Rice's story of speaking with her co-religionists, including her father, about the issue. Phil in Sayville, you're on WNYC. Hi, Phil, thank you for calling in.
Phil: Hi, Brian. Long-time listener, a couple of times I've called. Great show and [unintelligible 00:03:59] to be asked this question as a member of the Christian Left. I've lost friends over the argument. It's very clear to me in Scripture, God breathes life into Adam. That life comes with breath. You point out in their own holy book, and many Christians just don't listen. It's really super frustrating. I'm just really glad to be able to make the comment that life begins with breath.
Brian Lehrer: If life begins with breath, and that's in the Bible, what do you say to some of these debates over very late-term abortions?
Phil: I'm not the advocate for all abortions under all circumstances. As unpopular as HRC's position of abortion should be rare. Maybe now. It's an option. It's a constitutional right. It's not a place where religion should get involved. I can't believe that if my daughter lived in one place in the country, she might not have the same rights as her sister. That just seems inconceivable to me, not just as a Christian and as a citizen, but common sense. Life has to be life and death has to be death.
Brian Lehrer: Right. Thank you. Well, it's a constitutional right for another few weeks anyway, it looks like. Matt in Queens, you're on WNYC. Hi, Matt.
Matt: Hi, Brian, thanks for taking my call. This is a very frustrating topic for a lot of people. My belief, and I will say I'm a very devout Catholic and pro-life in my own personal beliefs, but those are my beliefs. Although many may share that belief, I don't believe that it should be the law because the law of this country is not based upon one state and finding a common ground or near common ground that is acceptable to everybody and fulfills the needs of the people is the job of the government, not the church.
Brian Lehrer: Matt, thank you very much. Here's Youssef in Newark, you're on WNYC. Hi, Youssef. Thanks for calling.
Youssef: Hey, Brian. I 100% agree with the position of Islam that you just mentioned. However, though, there's something that I hold dear as a Muslim, that any wrongdoing or any situation between human beings, that's what Islam teach, has to be settled between human beings before God can forgive, but any situation between an individual and God remains between the individual and Allah, and God.
If a woman chooses to terminate the pregnancy, it's between her and God. Nobody should intervene. That's my position as a Muslim. I know 90% we don't agree with that, but this [unintelligible 00:06:56] anything between human being and God, stays between human being and God. A woman has a right to choose what they do with that pregnancy and nobody should intervene in that. I think it should be legal for a woman to choose what they do with the pregnancy.
Brian Lehrer: Youssef, thank you very much for your call. Here's Maier in Brooklyn. Maier, you're on WNYC. Hi, there.
Maier: Thank you for taking my call. I would like to summarize my best knowledge of the Jewish law, that the right to conceive, the unlimited right to be pregnant, is not a license to murder, and is nothing to do with the woman right to choose, because it's after 40 days, it's a new life. It can be supported by ultrasound and other scientific evidence. Under one exception, that's if the developing of the fetus and the process of delivery before it's come out, puts the woman life in real risk of losing their life, her life is first. Otherwise, after 40 days--
Brian Lehrer: Yes, you say 40 days, but other Jews disagree. I'm looking at the website reformjudaism.org.
Maier: Sorry to say, but reform is not a Judaism law. They make their own laws. They don't represent Judaism.
Brian Lehrer: Well, that's your judgment of Reform Judaism, but it's also the biggest branch of Judaism in the United States by population.
Maier: No, no, no, it's a mistake. By population, most of them is not Jewish, because by Jewish law, only if your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish. They decided that if your father is Jewish, you're also Jewish.
Brian Lehrer: That's also true that they have that standard, but then why should the government-- I think a lot of Reform Jews, and I grew up Reform Jew, just for transparency. A lot of Reform Jews would say, "Well, why should the government take your side rather than the Reform Jew's side as a matter of state law?
Maier: I was disconnect for a second. Why the government--
Brian Lehrer: Why should the government basically impose your version of Judaism on the general public over the reform version of Judaism or any other over any other, rather than staying out of it?
Maier: I don't think it's even a question, because the government represents the voice of the fetus. It's not against nobody. It's not against the woman, it's not against any religious, somebody has to present the fetus' right to live. As I said before, the unlimited right to conceive, to become pregnant, is not a license to murder [unintelligible 00:10:20]
Brian Lehrer: Maier, thank you for your call, I appreciate it. Just to finish the thought that I was starting from reformjudaism.org, Rabbi Julie Zupan, on this topic wrote, "We believe that life is sacred and that the life and well-being of an existing life must be prioritized over the possibility of potential life, beliefs that are grounded in careful reading of Jewish text and tradition." There's that, there's the contrast between that and the last caller. Pew, by the way, found 80% of Jewish Americans are pro-choice for what it's worth. One more, Larry in Westchester, you're on WNYC. Hi, Larry.
Larry: Hi, Brian. Good to hear you as always. I just wanted to say the question was about religion. I was raised a Roman Catholic, and I still believe in Jesus Christ, but I think we're missing a fundamental point. There is a separation of church and state. As an American citizen, I totally adhere to that and adhere to the constitution. It could be any religion, it doesn't matter. There is a separation between church and state. Role was decided, that's the law, it's a separation of church and state, one group, et cetera.
Brian Lehrer: Unfortunately, for people who agree with you, it's not going to be the constitution anymore, it looks like, in another few weeks. I'm going to sneak one more in here. Barbara in Brooklyn, you're going to get the last word. We've got 30 seconds for you.
Barbara: Oh my Lord. Can you hear me?
Brian Lehrer: I can hear you, and I'm not your Lord.
Barbara: Oh my goodness. I've had this conversation with some Christian conservative friends and I asked them, men and women, to answer one question honestly, and the question is, if God had made men capable of having the babies instead of women, would we even be having this conversation?
Brian Lehrer: A perfect rhetorical question on which to end this segment. Thank you for all of your calls, folks. That's The Brian Lehrer Show for today. Produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond, and Yesica Balderrama. Our interns this spring semester finishing up this week are Anna Conkling and Diego Munhoz, also Gigi Steckel. Zach Gottehrer-Cohen edits our daily politics podcast. I'm Brian Lehrer.
Copyright © 2022 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.
New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.
