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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC and we move from the Super Bowl and Super Bowl Sunday to today's holiday, which is Valentine's Day, Happy Valentine's Day, to all who celebrate. A call in now for anyone who has noticed that therapy-speak has invaded your everyday life, including your love relationships. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. There was an article in the Times about therapy-speak in our relationships the other day, but we're going to go even broader than that. There's a lot complicating our relationships these days. Depending on who you ask, therapy-speak might be one of those things, and if you're not sure what I mean by therapy-speak, just think of phrases like love bombing, attachment styles, and holding space and none of these are bad in and of themselves, they're probably really good for people's mental health but all these terms come from clinical psychology and have trickled into the way we talk about our lives every day.

For this Valentine's Day call-in I want to know what you think of therapy-speak, and how you use it, or when it's been cringe-worthy coming out of the mouths of people you know. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Are you glad to have therapeutic ways, mental health positive ways of talking about complex situations in your life, or does the misuse of these terms frustrate you, make you cringe, even ironically, maybe think the other person is being phony or surfacey by using terms that are supposed to be psychologically deep. Give us a call, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. When is therapy-speak in your experience therapeutic? And when is it just cringy? 212-433-9692 and this can include psychologists or any other kinds of psychotherapists listening right now, what do you think about these terms making their way into everyday conversation?

I've seen the argument that it's good because it means more people are talking about their mental health and setting boundaries and your profession is really helping people even when you're not in session with somebody. On the other hand, does the everyday use of terms like narcissist and boundary setting for every inconvenience or moment when somebody we know focuses on themselves, dilute their potency and you think, that's not really what it means this is being misapplied, too broadly applied, badly applied, 212-433-WNYC or tweet of course, @BrianLehrer. It's not just our relationships, a couple of months ago, a therapist on TikTok went viral for making a video that was a script for how to break up with a friend, not a lover, a friend. People on social media found that one cold and clinical, that was actually the inspiration for this call in, then coincidentally, we saw the Times relationship and therapy-speak article the other day, but the video included phrases like, I've treasured our season of friendship, but we're moving in different directions in life, and telling the friend that you no longer "have the capacity to invest in the relationship" and people have apparently taken that badly because that video got a lot of hate.

Have you been on the receiving end of this kind of photonic breakup? Have you used this script or one like it because it was taken as a script, a lot of people started using the exact language in the video and sending it to friends who they no longer wanted to hang out with? Give us a call at 212-433-WNYC if you were one of those people, or if you just saw anybody else doing it. 212-433-9692 or if you just know that video from TikTok and have a relationship to it or tweet @BrianLehrer and because it's Valentine's Day, you are certainly invited to call in with your stories about how therapy-speak has made its way into your dating or marriage or partnership lives. Last week's Times article cited gaslighting for example as a word, "Oh, you're gaslighting me, honey." Love bombing and attachment styles, now common ways to discuss people's love lives. Do you use any of these terms?

Do you roll your eyes when you hear your friends describing their love lives this way? What do you think this kind of language says about how we treat our relationships? Maybe it's a good thing, maybe this is all mental health positive, or maybe this is making you cringe and feel those kinds of cliches or those kinds of self-aggrandizing excuses, or whatever they are, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer and we'll take your therapy-speak calls right after this.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC. As we take your calls on therapy-speak, when is it therapeutic? When is it cringy? We'll start with a bonafide psychotherapist at least he told her screener, he is David Nyack. You're on WNYC. Hi, David.

David: Hi, Brian, thank you much for this segment and as always for your shows. I just wanted to make a quick point. I think these either ors can get confusing, it's always a both. There's I think it really positive. I've been a therapist for psychoanalyst for 40 years and what it can do is create a common language for people which can really be positive. What it can also do is do the opposite, like you're a narcissist. Well, we all have narcissistic moments but clinical narcissism is very different, it's almost like watching a YouTube video on heart surgery and thinking you can do it, that's where it becomes a negative thing, it becomes name calling but there's no real understanding of what the gaslighting, these things become ways of avoiding really working through the conflict. I think it has a double kind of effect in that way, that's all I wanted to say.

Brian: Okay, thank you very much, then. Here is a social worker, also going to chime in. Carla in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Carla.

Carla: Hi, Brian. Yes, to the previous caller's point, I think there's something really great about normalizing a lot of these things, mental illness, emotional wellness, good mental health. I think there's something also dangerous about having a piece of the info like, for instance, when people say, like, I'm really triggered. I think there are people who are genuinely triggered in certain instances, and there are other people who are using that same language, that same terminology, and they're just irritated or bothered by something, and there is a distinct difference, the same to his point with regard to narcissism or other pathologize your kind of behavioral disorders, you don't want to pathologize people. Even when you're a therapist, if you are having a hard day, you want to be very careful with that kind of language, because labels still exist, people still judge you based on those labels. I think making it accessible, but also hopefully, not making it this pop culture reference of name calling and I think that just serves to also continually stigmatize mental health.

Brian: Since you use triggering, as an example, what's real clinical triggering?

Carla: I think it can show up in a lot of ways, in my experience, it shows up as kind of really being back in a moment. I think of like war veterans, somebody who hears a loud sound may have a very physiological response to that, whether that's an exaggerated startle response, which if you've ever seen somebody kind of jump very suddenly, that's what that is. That's something where they can be taken back into that moment, very quickly and it's like for a second, they're kind of in a different place but they have to kind of talk themselves out of or think themselves out of, you're not in a war scenario that was a car backfiring, or that was a door slamming behind you that you weren't expecting. People who have experienced childhood trauma or abuse, those sorts of things.

Brian: Taking you right back to the trauma rather than somebody being, as you said, just irritated or annoyed by something.

Carla: Right, but I think it's become such commonplace to say, oh, that's like really triggering for me, and people misusing it or using it manipulatively to be like, well, I don't want to have this conversation, that's really triggering for me and it's like, well, then that becomes kind of a block and so now you've cut off communication--

Brian: An excuse. Carla, thank you. Thank you much. We really appreciate it. Here's Louis in Sao Paulo, Brazil. You're on WNYC and hello from New York, Louis.

Louis: Well, hello, thank you much for having me here.

Brian: You have a story I see. I know we have a little delay on the line from Brazil, just so our listeners can adjust their ears to that. Go ahead.

Louis: All right. The story I have to share is a good insight after years and years of analysis therapy to name it and be today Valentine's when you're celebrating love and friendship, it's about anger. You're very angry at someone or something, or your friends. My finding is, what is anger hiding, what is behind anger? I think it's fear. Fear is more primal. Nobody wants to realize that they are afraid, so they're angry, which also battles your everlasting depression. It's a very humbling experience when you say, "Okay, well I'm angry because I'm actually afraid." Afraid of being rejected, afraid of being left alone in the pool. It's some people [crosstalk]

Brian: Yes, so that's sort of, you're bringing up real therapy-oriented introspection. If you're feeling anger at somebody or something, ask yourself, is their fear underlying that, that I then experience at the surface as anger, right?

Louis: Correct. As you know, no one wants to think about that they bother them, and that's one that bothers you terribly. Again, that's it. Thank you so much.

Brian: Louis, thank you so much. That even gets into politics, doesn't it? We use the words homophobia, transphobia, things like that to express the fear that some people might be experiencing deep down, but then it comes out as hate. That of course is another show. We're taking your calls on therapy speak in your everyday lives. How therapeutic? How cringe-worthy? Have you ever broken up with a friend using the popular TikTok video therapy? I can say this, I really can. Popular TikTok Therapy-speak video script. The script from that video that one person shared. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. We don't get a lot of calls from people in car washes, but I think we are now. Noah in Montclair, you're on WNYC. Hi, Noah.

Noah: Hi, Brian. Thanks for taking my call. By the way, it's Noah, the little throat-clearing thing at the end.

Brian: Noah, I'm sorry.

Noah: No, no, no problem. I just want to say that it seems to me that the issue is not even about the content of the language but the nature of our relationship and language. I think that we don't commit ourselves. It becomes a shortcut. Like your caller is talking about triggering. These are important ideas, but then we sometimes get lazy collectively, and we want to just get to think we can express what we want to express without actually expressing the full idea of it. Trigger becomes not just an actual trigger, but it becomes just being upset by something. Then also, like trauma, I think is a word that means a lot, and the condition and the experience is important but because we start by thinking that we all know what we mean by trauma, then we start to assume what's traumatic for somebody else because we're not really talking about our own experience and trying to express our unique experiences.

Brian: Noah calling from Montclair Silent Carwash, apparently. Noah, thank you very much. We really appreciate it. Here are a couple of tweets coming in and interesting, they both use the word weaponized. One person writes, "Therapy-speak is just another object to be weaponized by those all too willing to attack others. Is there a medical term for the misuse of medical terminology to promote labeling and shaming? I don't think so." Then somebody else wrote, "The weaponizing of concepts like we each have our own reality to deflect content or control a situation. Now also seen in politics like the big lie." Christine in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi Christine.

Christine: Hi. Yes, so in my case, people have been opening up to learning more about mental health and therapy topics, mainly in my experience as I've seen through social media. That's really great in a lot of ways, but in some cases, not so great. In cases where people might know a surface-level definition of a term or in my case specifically have certain terms weaponized against me. I've been in small fights that I feel I'm just sticking up for myself or something holding to my guns told that I'm gaslighting.

It just feels as if my entire argument that I've put together and all my points are just completely disarmed and worth nothing now that they've been labeled as gaslighting. It can get very frustrating because this person I know for a fact probably doesn't know the entire definition of that word. It really in addition to ruining my point and arguments, hurts my feelings. In that kind of case, I do not love therapy terms being used.

Brian: I guess because if somebody accuses you of gaslighting, they're accusing you of making something up that's false in order to make them think that they're, "crazy." Right?

Christine: Yes, exactly. Yes, when I'm just trying to stick out for myself, it really can be frustrating to be called the gaslighter.

Brian: Christine, thank you for your call. Sue in Queens has some other words that she doesn't like when people bring up. Sue, you're on WNYC. Hi there.

Sue: Hello, Brian. I'm just a layperson, but I hear a lot of people say, "Oh, like she's so bipolar, or my ADHD is acting up, or my OCD." Whereas we're not diagnosed with any of these things. I think it's an exaggeration. We also use claustrophobia and anxiety a lot. You even had a WNYC show the United States of Anxiety and I would think, "Do I actually have anxiety or do you need to be diagnosed?" That's all.

Brian: Sue. Thank you very much. Yes, the country has anxiety, but that's another show literally. Don in East Haven, Connecticut, you're on WNYC. Hi Don.

Don: Hi Brian. Nice talking to you. You are one of my favorite humans. Brian, I just wanted to talk about the psychology. I'm a Black 77-year-old and therapy is something that I've learned that as a Black person, there are a lot of taboos with it culturally, but we are probably as a people in need of therapy more than anybody else. It's something that's not so acceptable because you got to go to therapy, you're crazy, but it's one of the best things that's happened to me in my life. Again, as a retired 77-year-old educator, I'm pretty proud of therapy. I think we need a lot more of it and not less.

Brian: Well, if you're going to put it in racial terms, would you agree that probably a lot of white people need therapy to see what they can't even identify as a problem in themselves that contributes to racism in this country?

Don: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We are all very much in need of it. I'm just saying as a Black person, I understand how much more we are, I need because we don't know what we don't know.

Brian: I hear you. Don, thank you. Thank you for calling. Please call us again. Sandra, a family therapist in Manhattan is going to get our last word. Sandra, can you do it in about 30 seconds? Do we have Sandra? Sandra?

Sandra: Our first anxiety attack is when we're born and we come out of that womb and it does no good to use this language, it's everywhere, anxiety and depression. I try to get the people I work with to use the words concerns, problems, issues. Everybody has worries, everybody has sadness and it's not a pathological thing to have depression, anxiety, and it's the overuse of this language, like trauma. It's just everywhere and it's what all your guests have said. It's on the news, it's in your programs, and we have to get away from it. Thank you.

Brian: Sandra, thank you. Thank you very much. We will get away from it, at least for now. That's the end of the show. The Brian Lehrer Show for today, produced by Mary Croke, Lisa Allison, Carl Boisrond, Esperanza Rosenbaum, and [unintelligible 00:20:01]. At the audio controls today, doing a great job learning how to do this. Shayna [unintelligible 00:20:07], I'm Brian Lehrer. Happy Valentine's Day.

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