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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. By the way about that kids 5 to 11 call-in tomorrow after they've gotten their vaccines. Big Bird is not doing interviews at this time. We did ask. We did. We did ask, but Big Bird is not doing interviews at this time, but the kids will be enough and your parents. President Biden's bipartisan infrastructure bill will pump $1 trillion or so into transportation, broadband and utilities. There are hopes that some of this money will be used to invest in communities that have been under-served or actively harmed by past infrastructure projects, including locally. Here's a little bit of transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg, on what he would like to use part of that money for.

Pete Buttigieg: As to where we target those dollars, I'm still surprised that some people were surprised when I pointed to the fact that if a highway was built for the purpose of dividing a white and a Black neighborhood, or if an underpass was constructed such that a bus carrying mostly Black and Puerto Rican kids to a beach, or it would have been, in New York was designed too low for it to pass by, that that obviously reflects racism that went into those design choices. I don't think we have anything to lose by confronting that simple reality. I think we have everything to gain by acknowledging it and then dealing with it. Which is why the reconnecting communities, that $1 billion, is something we want to get to work right away putting to work.

Brian: There it is as a concept. Let's get even more local and more specific. After the bill passed, Senator Schumer and Congressman Ritchie Torres expressed their support for that initiative as it pertains to the Cross Bronx Expressway and environmental racism in particular. Here's Senator Schumer.

Senator Schumer: This expressway built by Robert Moses, is one of the greatest examples of environmental injustice.

Brian: Environmental injustice because so many people suffer from asthma as a direct result of living near the expressway. Maybe you heard the call to mayor elect Adams in our previous segment this morning, calling to cap the Cross Bronx. Which means putting a layer of green over the part where the cars go. My next guest says this bill could potentially be a game changer in addressing long standing inequities in communities of color and low income neighborhoods, but only if the money actually makes its way to the under-served communities it promises to transform.

He is Eric Eve, founder and CEO of Ichor Strategies, a consultancy that helps corporations and urban communities build partnerships. You may have seen him in the daily news today with an opinion piece called Leveraging the Infrastructure Bill to Help Under-served Communities. He's also a former staffer under President Bill Clinton, and he's worked at various companies and in local government. Eric Eve, welcome to WNYC. Thank you so much for joining us.

Eric Eve: Brian, thank you for having me.

Brian: What do you think of that Buttigieg clip and that Schumer clip?

Eric: Well, the Secretary and the Majority Leader are spot on, and they're right to raise these issues now. Pat Foy tweet this morning referenced the former head of the MTA, is well documented the fact that Robert Moses and his wife once [unintelligible 00:03:54] Long Island parks to track the number of the race of individuals entering the park and so these aren't just New York stories. These stories in and around our nation's history and infrastructure can be found all over the country.

Senator Schumer and Secretary Buttigieg are right to focus on [unintelligible 00:04:19] looking back, we've got to look forward. We need to acknowledge what has happened in the past but look forward to how we, not only remediate, but more important strengthen low income and communities of color in the region and throughout the country with this historic legislation.

Brian: Are you familiar with the cap the Cross Bronx movement in particular? Eric Adams came out publicly for it on the show earlier this hour. Maybe he said it before but he certainly said it today. Do you think it's the sort of infrastructure project-- Well, do you think that particular infrastructure project could make a difference for asthma rates in the Bronx or do you think it's realistic to expect that with this money or any other money, that that might get done?

Eric: I actually listened to the show earlier and listen to Mayor elect Adams previously speak to the issue. It's absolutely the type of thinking that we must have going into these types of projects. We always think about [unintelligible 00:05:37] infrastructure. We think about the environmental impact immediately upfront, but the mayor elect also talked earlier about healthcare and crime. We need to be thinking about the broader impact of this historic infrastructure legislation and the impact that it will have on these communities. Because the impact will be so lasting, and lasting should be a good thing, right? We must get this right and we cannot afford to repeat mistakes of the past.

Brian: Listeners, we have time for a few phone calls with Eric Eve from Ichor Strategies, focusing on urban infrastructure. You can call in and say where you think investments in infrastructure should be made, let's say in the name of equity and in the name of fighting environmental racism. 212-433 WNYC. 212-433-9692 or tweet @BrianLehrer if you want to get in on this. We've talked on the show about the history of the Cross Bronx Expressway and its blight on adjacent communities.

We did a whole series earlier in the year on the neighborhood of West Farms in the Bronx called West Farms 10460. That's probably the best known example of a devastating infrastructure project that harmed once thriving neighborhoods and facilitated decades of disinvestment in the adjacent neighborhoods, even as it facilitated more cars. Are there other examples you would want to point to of infrastructure projects in and around New York City, past or present, that may clear the need to address this history?

Eric: The projects are numerous, Brian. I grew up in Buffalo, New York, a land far, far away from here. You can look throughout the state or the nation to find examples. I think the important thing for the providers of capital, state and local governments as they draw down from this federal funding, and the corporations that will deploy capital alongside. The really important thing to remember is we can't repeat mistakes of the past, so we have to engage communities in and around New York to understand their points of view on how this capital should be deployed.

The decisions that President Biden and Mayor elect Adams and governors [unintelligible 00:08:30] and Murphy. The decisions that they make over the next two, three years, will last for generations to come. These providers of this economic capital must engage in a way that Robert Moses never would, never could. He didn't have to. He was the power broker, but today is a different day. It's a different time and so these communities must be engaged to find out what are the transformational solutions.

Not transactional but what are the transformational solutions tied to this infrastructure's $1 trillion? What are the solutions that are going to have a meaningful impact on them and their families for potentially generations to come? That will be the difference with this historic $1 trillion investment.

Brian: Do you have a specific example of something that you would like to see built with that money?

Eric: Nothing specifically. It would be dishonest of me to say this is what I think. Process-wise, I think that what I'm going to start doing independent of political leadership, is actually begin talking to communities and find out what-- I'm not talking about political leadership. They're important, but you have to go two, three, four levels down and begin to say, "Here's the data. Here's what we know about the community." Could be transportation, crime, health, whatever the case might be. Here are the policy considerations and here are the social and economic impacts, the pain points if you will, and here is a way that infrastructure might address those pain points. When you do all three of those things, Brian, you'll have no shortage of wonderful ideas on how to tangibly address disparities that have followed these communities for some time, and address the disparities in a meaningful way.

Brian: Here's a caller from the Lower East side with an issue that's been coming up a lot that's infrastructure related. Marcella you're on WYNC. Hello?

Marcella: Hi Brian. Thank you so much for having me on. I live in the Lower East side, a block from East River Park, and I moved in a week before Sandy and was affected by Sandy. I first started hearing about the east side coastal [unintelligible 00:11:22] plan a few years ago and I was interested of course, because I used the park every day. At first it sounded great. The bridges definitely need reconstruction and the park needed TLC, but then in 2018, I found out that the plan had been changed to involve the complete destruction of the park and for eight feet of [unintelligible 00:11:49] to be laid on top.

Just the more I've learned about this plan, the more disturbed I've become and I've been writing my local officials and writing the Mayor and I just have felt more and more disillusioned that the importance of this park, especially during COVID when me and my family just went there every day to-- I started bird watching.

Brian: I don't have time for you to continue to go on on this, and they say that they're going to rebuild the park and that's still going to be a robust usable park, but they're doing this to enable resiliency in case another Sandy hits. That's their position on it and without getting back into the two sides of the east river park debate, Eric Eve, do you have a position on that or on that kind of thing and the conflict that it raises, obviously in communities that have one interest or let's say competing interests, that are good things versus other good things?

Eric: One of the things that's really important, and I really appreciate Marcella's question, is that she's knowledgeable, she's active, involved. She now has to understand, and Marcellas like her throughout the region, have to understand how this capital will be deployed. Trillion dollars is a lot of money. There are a bunch of constituents around the country pulling, who want to participate. Marcella, it's critically important to understand the legislation. I believe there are points that, components of the capital that are relevant to your situation. Understand the legislation.

Understand how local government, whether it's the City of New York or another entity, how they're applying those funds to your park. Then last but not least, once you've understood those two things, be able to influence the timing and the deployment of capital. So often we find ourselves on opposite sides just yelling past one another. That doesn't result in much. Amazon in Long Island City is the best case. Real engagement comes with understanding what the policy implications are, understanding the facts.

There's a responsibility for communities as well as from local governments and corporations to get the facts, and in this instance, I think this is a perfect example here, Marcella, on how you and others can engage from the community up. That's how these dollars should be deployed if they're going to have the impact that the President Biden hoped they would.

Brian: When we talk about capping the Cross-Bronx expressway, I believe that idea is to put a layer of parkland basically, over the existing highway so that there would be more usable parkland for one thing, but also the fumes that exacerbate asthma in the area wouldn't get out as much. I think there's also actual highway removal that is under discussion for some areas. Some people say it's a nonstarter because of how little cities and states invest in public transit and because of how ingrained car culture is.

To what extent is undoing racial inequality in the nation's highway system contingent on investments and actually taking down highways, even as public transportation is invested in more?

Eric: I think it's going to be-- remember, Brian, as you said at the top of the segment, we have to, as President Biden and majority leader Schumer said, we have to recognize the inequity of what has been constructed. We're not starting from zero here. That's step one, it must be a variable. Two, one of the things that institutions think about, they think about what's going to be the return on investment. From a corporate side, that might be financial matters, from a government side, it's speed.

How quickly am I going to be able to deploy this capital? If these issues are not taken into consideration, Brian, these projects will be stalled. The community will oppose, and ultimately the capital will find another home. It will move to another places. Gone are the days where we can just debate ad nauseum, year in and year out, and talk past one another. These funds will be spent. There are plenty of States and localities interested in deploying the capital in their communities if we can't.

My plea to both the providers of the capital and the communities that are going to receive them, get knowledgeable on what's in the legislation, understand what the priorities, what the pain points are for your community, and come to the table with a set of proposals to move forward.

Brian: We have two minutes left in the segment. Tracy in Jamaica's going to be our last caller. Hi, Tracy. You're on WNYC.

Tracy: Hi, Brian, how you doing? Just going along with what he was saying is that I think that we need to invest in our communities by cleaning them. Cleaning them and greening our communities, getting people employed, not just picking up the trash once a day or once a week, but every day. People who live in that community are interested in maintaining it, making it look a certain way, the same way the Park Avenue has the flowers and people want to visit Park Avenue just for the flowers. We can do that every place. Once we start maintaining those communities, making them beautiful and attractive, people will be more interested in where they live. People will be more concerned.

Brian: Tracy, thank you so much. As a closing word, Mr. Eve, I get it, your central message is get involved. Communities need to get involved and politicians in power need to do outreach to communities to figure out where this infrastructure money, billions and billions for the tri-state area, can be spent, should be spent most effectively, most in pursuit of equity, most in opposition to an environmental racism. How can people start?

Eric: Brian, thanks again for having me on. It's so important that we're having this discussion now, because this is an historic moment in time for us in the New York area. The starting point is to get the data from a community up perspective. One, to understand what will be the impact of this legislation on my community. Two, the pain points. What are the issues that I'm trying to solve for? They could be environmental. There is a $65 billion 5G component, broadband component. They could be health related, there's a clean water component. So what are the things that are important to me?

Last but not least, begin to engage. People are often intimidated by engaging institutions either private or public, but from the community up, we must engage in order to get to proactive solutions. I encourage our political and corporate leaders to be open to doing exactly the same.

Brian: Engage on what you want and also on what you don't want, as we talk about the legacy of the Cross-Bronx and other past infrastructure projects that turned out to be harmful to people in many ways. It's worth mentioning that communities are still being cut through by highway projects. In South Carolina right now, there's a plan to widen I-526 that would cut through, according to what I've read, entirely Black and brown communities in North Charleston.

These battles are going to take place around the country in aware communities, and so here we go in New York with all this infrastructure money. We thank Eric Eve, founder and CEO of Ichor strategies. He's got an op Ed in the daily news today called Leveraging the Infrastructure Bill to Help Under-served Communities. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Eric: Brian, thank you for having me.

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