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Brian Lehrer: Brian on WNYC. We're now getting a clearer picture of the causes and outcomes of the deadly fire in the Bronx on Sunday. The death toll has since been downgraded a little bit from what we mentioned yesterday. However, still very tragic, 17 dead, including 8 children, and dozens are in hospitals in critical condition. We can only hope they all survive. Many in the building and surrounding community are part of a large immigrant population that others don't hear about very much. According to Mayor Adams, most of the fire victims are from or have connections to Gambia in West Africa.

Now, the mayor specified that temporary housing support and other relief must be sensitive to cultural needs, appropriate food and prayer space for the many displaced who are Muslim, for example. Senator Chuck Schumer promising immigration assistance to unite families separated by distance and red tape. This as loved ones of those who died may also want to return home for funeral services and be able to come back. In addition to city, state and federal relief, volunteers and community groups are busy providing support. Listeners, you can too.

We'll discuss some of the resources available to victims and their families now, plus volunteer and donation opportunities for those hoping to lend a hand to the many harmed and displaced by Sunday's fire, in addition to some of the underlying causes and some of the possible violations on the part of the owners of the building that may have contributed to this. Here with more are the Congressmen and state Senator from the neighborhood. State Senator Gustavo Rivera, who's also chairman of the Senate's Health Committee and Ritchie Torres, who represents the area in Congress. Thank you, both, for coming on. Welcome back, both of you, to WNYC and I'm sorry it's under these circumstances.

Sen. Rivera: Pleasure to be here.

Brian: Listeners, if you or someone you know is personally affected by Sunday's fire, we invite you to call in with your questions on relief efforts answered by your state Senator and member of Congress, 212-433-WNYC. If you'd like to help by volunteering or donating but aren't sure where to start, we invite you to call in with your questions on what you can do, 212-433-9692 or tweet @BrianLehrer. We'll prioritize calls to help victims or from people who know victims.

If you'd also like to discuss the state of building safety more generally as it relates to Albany and Washington policy, you can also call in with questions on what your representatives are doing in response to this tragedy. Again, tweet @BrianLehrer or call 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Congressman Torres, I'll start with you, what's the latest you've heard on victims of the fire? Are people homeless or what supports do they need the most right now?

Rep. Torres: Those who are going to be displaced for the long run, those who are living on the third floor, and a few apartments elsewhere in the building, are going to be guaranteed permanent housing. Those who previously received Section 8 vouchers will continue to have Section 8 vouchers and we will guarantee them housing without question. Those who have been displaced in the short term are gradually returning to their homes. If any of them wish to live elsewhere, then we will guarantee those people housing as well. Because, obviously, returning to a building where there was a devastating fire is deeply traumatic and we want to afford those tenants the opportunity to seek permanent housing elsewhere.

Brian: Senator Rivera, where should victims who haven't received aid or the right aid or enough of it reach out for help? I see you tweeted a list of resources from the city, including a service center at Monroe Colleges Ustin Hall. Can you tell us more about local relief efforts that people should know about?

Sen. Rivera: Absolutely. The first thing I'll tell you is that the response has been overwhelming. I'm sure that the Congress member's office is just as crowded as ours is or the local council member or the assembly member. So much actual material things have come in. You were referring to Ustin Hall at Monroe College, that is at 2375 Jerome Avenue, just a few blocks from where this tragedy occurred. That is where the Office of Emergency management has set up their center to make sure that we can assess the needs of the families. Because, when you think about it, this is merely just two days old.

We are still assessing all the needs of the families and we are going to make sure that the resources that we've received get to those families. One thing that I'd want to underline here to everyone who wants to help is to make certain that we stay away from scams, that we have vetted sources I should say of assistance whether it's the mayor's fund or the offices of the local elected. That is the best way to be able to get resources to these families. There's always a couple of knuckleheads that want to take advantage of the situation, so we want to make sure that only vetted sources are the ones that get resources so that it gets to these families.

Brian: I also see you tweeted out a particular GoFundMe and also a relief drive from the Bronx Democratic Party. Do you want to mention those by name so people know what they are?

Sen. Rivera: Absolutely. One of them is the Gambian Youth Organization. As you mentioned, many folks in this building have a direct connection to Gambia and so there's a nonprofit organization which is a local organization which has already raised hundreds of thousands of dollars. They are organization that is a legitimate organization that has made it clear that they will make sure that this money gets to families.

That is the goal here. Also, the mayor's fund as I mentioned earlier and the Bronx Democratic Party led by state Senator Jamal Bailey has organized a relief drive and they are just as overwhelmed as we are with material things, coats and non-perishables, which will be organizing in the next day or so to make certain that it actually makes its way to the families.

Brian: Congressman Torres, are victims being given immigration assistance to reconnect with their families as they process these losses?

Rep. Torres: Both Senator Schumer and I are committed to providing whatever immigration assistance these families need. There's been a service center established at Monroe College and so if any of these families require immigration assistance, we are available to support them. Senator Schumer said as much publicly when he appeared with the mayor and myself at Twin Parks Northwest.

Brian: What are the immigration or some of the immigration questions that are coming up? Is it about being able to go back for a funeral, bring someone back for a funeral and then return to the country or what are some of the immigration questions that are relevant here?

Rep. Torres: I think people want to know that they have the ability to seek services without facing the risk of deportation. We will guarantee them that we will do everything in our power to protect them. That's what Senator Schumer said publicly. My office is making the same commitment. There's a wariness of seeking services from the federal government because of the crisis of credibility created by ICE.

Brian: Let's take a phone call from someone who wants to help. Adrian in the Bronx, who says he has a restaurant in the Bronx. Adrian, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling in.

Adrian: Hello?

Brian: Hi, there. You're on the air.

Adrian: Oh, I'm on the air. Hey, Brian. I was coerced to talk about this, but I work with a couple of advocacy groups in the Bronx and we were just wanting to know where we could deliver food for the victims of the fire in the Bronx today.

Brian: I think I'll sidestep the question of who coerced you and how, but if there's a restaurant that wants to deliver food, state Senator Rivera, to people affected, is there a way they can do it?

Sen. Rivera: I would you just that you get in touch with my district office. I'm going to say the number 718-933-2034. That's, first of all, a number that anyone can use in my district if they need assistance and certainly any of the families dealing with the situation. I would ask this gentleman to get in touch with my office, again, 718-933-2034, because we want to make sure that we can coordinate with the folks on the ground.

The one thing that I will tell you, Brian, is that there has been so many folks who have wanted to help that we have been a little bit overwhelmed. We certainly are thankful for people's assistance. We want to make sure that we coordinate with what the actual needs are on the ground, so that no food goes to waste, no resources go to waste. Get in touch with my office. We will coordinate with folks on the ground and if the need is there, we will absolutely make sure that that food gets to family members who need it.

Brian: Congressman Torres, you know you and I have talked on the show many times about housing issues in recent years when you were in city council and very focused on NYCHA and some other things. I want to ask you about the lack of self-closing doors in this building which may have contributed to the high death and injury toll that would violate city law. Many people may never have thought about this particular law or piece of the building code, where doors in this kind of building are supposed to be self-closing, specifically to limit the spread of a fire when fire breaks out. Can you describe your understanding of what the situation was in that building and whether it violated the law or the housing code?

Rep. Torres: You're exactly right. If the building had self-closing doors, the fire would have been contained. The fire originated from a malfunctioning space heater in the inner duplex on the third floor of Twin Parks Northwest. Even though the fire was largely limited to the third floor, both the apartment door and the nearby stairwell door were left open, causing the smoke to spread rapidly throughout the building. Since the building had no fire escape, and since the stairwell was full of smoke, tenants had no means of escaping, and so victims were found on every floor. Tenants died from severe smoke inhalation, from cardiac and respiratory arrest.

The fundamental question is why did the building not have properly self-closing doors as required by law? The devastating fire at Twin Parks has to be seen in the context of historical disinvestment in the lowest income communities of color, from places like the South Bronx, from affordable housing. If you allow affordable housing or communities like ours to be chronically underfunded, you're putting lives at risk.

If you live in a luxury building in Manhattan, you can take fire safety for granted. But if you live in an affordable housing complex in the South Bronx, there's no guarantee that your building will have a sprinkler system. In fact, it's unlikely to have a sprinkler system. There's no guarantee that you will have functioning fire alarms and smoke alarms. There's no guarantee that you will have functioning self-closing doors or safety knobs on your stoves. When it comes to fire safety, New York City is a tale of two cities.

Brian: Let's talk about who owns this particular building, because there may be implications for other buildings and how housing ownership is going in New York and elsewhere in general these days. My understanding from what I've read is that the building is owned by a collective of investors. Congressman, let me stay with you on this first, do you want to talk about the particular investment group? I think it's known as Belveron Partners and Camber Property Group. In general, how do you ensure accountability and that services are provided in low-income private housing when building ownership is so complex and fractionalized and corporatized?

Rep. Torres: The trouble is the oversight is too bureaucratic. Since the building is Section 8, there's federal jurisdiction. Since it's a state Mitchell-Lama there's state jurisdiction. Since it's a building in New York City it's subject to the local city housing code and fire code and building code. There are many pots and too many people in the kitchen. The Section 8 vouchers come from NYCHA, from HCR at the state level, from HPD. All these agencies are required to conduct inspections to ensure that the building is complying with what are known as housing quality standards. Those are the federal standards of housing quality. Those inspection reports should be publicly disclosed. None of those reports have been made available.

Brian: Senator Rivera, do you think there was a failure to inspect or a failure to enforce? Again, I'm seeing press reports that say the building was cited for violations based on doors that were supposed to self close but didn't. If these weren't corrected, then maybe there's an enforcement issue.

Sen. Rivera: Certainly in the next couple of days, as all the investigations are finalized and all the causes are established, we will look very closely at making sure that we can hold folks accountable. The Congress member is right. When you have disinvestment in certain communities for generations, this is the type of thing that can happen. It does seem at this point, at least at this moment as far as I understand it, that the owners of the building have been responsive after the fire and have been committed to do the things that are necessary to repair it, get it back up to livable levels, et cetera.

As you said, we will look very closely at what occurred here and if there is someone to be held accountable it needs to happen and if there's ways that we can actually make it easier for folks to be held accountable because the Congress member is also right that there is an alphabet soup of agencies that are responsible to make sure that buildings like this are safe. We deal with it every day in my district office. If you can probably guess folks coming into my office for issues of housing are the number one, two, and third issue that they come in for. We will have much to look at in the next couple of weeks. We will look at if there's legislative solutions here, we will certainly propose some at the state level.

Brian: This is WNYC FM, HD and AM New York, WNJT FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcom, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are in New York and New Jersey public radio with the Congressman and state Senator who represent the area of the Bronx where that devastating fire was on Sunday. Senator Gustavo Rivera and Congressman Ritchie Torres. Teresa in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, Teresa. Thank you for calling in.

Teresa: Hello, Brian, and hello, to your guests. Yes, I plan to go to the GoFundMe page so I can make a donation to that tragic situation. What made me call in is that I live in Mitchell-Lama housing in the Bronx. We have a situation here where in the process of them repairing the roof, they removed the insulation. Now, this was months ago and the insulation has not been re-installed. Every time I ask about it it's one excuse after the other why the installation hasn't been re-installed. What is happening because it's so cold, they are trying to send the heat up. I have to give them credit for that but it's not making the place warm because the installation is gone.

They promised us heaters. That was three weeks ago. I never got a heater. I had to go out and purchase two heaters for myself, which is still not very good because you see what happened they said the cause of the fire was due to a faulty space heater. I have some nice space heaters but it's still not doing the job and I still don't like the idea of having to use space heaters. I was wondering, what do I need to do to get somebody to deal with this situation? It's been going on for months.

Brian: Senator Rivera, I think this is more a state issue than a federal issue so let me give this to you.

Sen. Rivera: I would suggest, again, to Teresa that you reach out to my office. I'd want to establish if you don't live in my district, we could certainly both help you and connect you to your local elected but my office is 718-933-2034, is the number you should call because we deal with situations like this all of the time. There's so many buildings that are owned by so many people, by so many companies and LLCs, et cetera, that you certainly have responsible landlords, but then you have quite a few that are not and the situations like the one that you're describing Teresa is quite common.

We deal with it on a day-to-day basis. We will do what we can to put pressure on the landlord to ask direct questions about what is happening and not happening, to direct your city or state agencies to them if they need to have pressure put on them, or potentially connect you to legal assistance as well if it's necessary, depending on your situation. Again, 718-933-2034 and my community affairs folks will work with you to establish how best we can assist.

Brian: Teresa [unintelligible 00:19:00]

Teresa: I do appreciate that but, again, I've called in about other things. I called in on behalf of my friend because she lives in NYCHA. She had a very terrible heat situation and nothing was done. Even after the head of the whole housing organization called me, was very nice about it, but nothing was done.

Brian: You called HPD in that case?

Teresa: The person called me. I forgot his name, but he called me. He was very nice and called my friend but nothing was done.

Brian: Teresa, thank you. You hear how frustrating it is, Congressman Torres, when people get yessed by the government and then nothing is done.

Rep. Torres: It's why there's a crisis of confidence. The previous questioner, I think, touches on a deeper issue. Much has been said about the fire hazard of space heaters, which is true. Space heaters do pose a fire hazard. We should ask ourselves the deeper question. Why are people using space heaters in the first place?

It's the chronic lack of heat and hot water, the inadequacy of heat and hot water, that causes tenants to resort to the use of space heaters out of desperation. There are situations where the landlords are willfully disregarding the law and depriving their tenants of heat and hot water. But even in cases where the landlords are providing the legal minimum, what the law requires in New York City falls well short of the amount of heat that many tenants need to remain warm in their apartments.

Brian: Congressman Ritchie Torres, I know you got to go. Thank you very much for joining us on this today.

Rep. Torres: Absolutely, Brian. Take care.

Brian: We're going to spend a few more minutes with state Senator Gustavo Rivera from the Bronx on a different housing issue, but one of great importance to so many people in the area right now outside the building where this took place in the Bronx, because, Senator, as you know, this Saturday the state's eviction moratorium expires. This has been in place for most of the pandemic but it expires on Saturday. My understanding is that Governor Hochul does not plan to extend it. What's your understanding about the state of the eviction moratorium and what can people do if they're afraid of getting evicted now?

Sen. Rivera: As you said, it is set to expire on January 15th. I strongly believe, and I've said the in the past, that it should be extended. Fact is my district was the eviction epicenter of the state even before the pandemic. I have the type of situation that Teresa was describing and that many constituents describe, puts them at risk. As far as the position of the governor, I'm not aware of a final decision on that point.

We will continue to argue both privately and publicly that should be extended, but I know that today our conference is going to be meeting on this issue. By that, I mean the Democratic majority in the Senate are going to be meeting on this issue and are going to have a deep discussion about what the position is that we take as a conference. We all recognize how serious the crisis is and how many people are potentially at risk of eviction if the moratorium does indeed expire. We don't have a final position here, but we are aware of the crisis and we will act accordingly.

Brian: Is there a piece of legislation that you're considering that would extend through law what the governor and the previous governor had done through executive action, or some other kinds of supports? I know Governor Hochul and her state of the state address was talking about legal assistance for people who their landlords are trying to evict them and some other kinds of things.

Sen. Rivera: We're considering every option. There's, obviously, the ERAP program. The Emergency Rental Assistance Program has been opened again. It currently doesn't have funding in there, but if you apply for Emergency Rental Assistance-- Currently, we're in the conversations about the budget. We have a budget presentation that the governor's going to make in just a week or a week and a half that, potentially, could put more money into that program. Currently it is back open. It was open based on a lawsuit that I believe Legal Aid brought.

If you apply for the Emergency Rental Assistance, you will be protected from eviction proceedings. We know that if we do not avert this process from beginning again, many of my neighbors are going to be evicted. It's going to have a devastating effect on the people in my district and across the state. We are considering legislative solutions, funding solutions for current programs, administrative solutions. I think that working along with this governor who is a very different governor than our prior governor, I feel that we understand the seriousness of the situation and we will act accordingly before the 15th.

Brian: Before you go, can I come back to an aspect of the fire that we haven't talked about yet, either on this show's coverage yesterday or today? I just want to make sure to say it out loud and give you an opportunity to say out loud, the respect and thanks to the firefighters involved. Fire fighters were injured as well. Firefighters, we've been hearing stories of some who ran out of their oxygen supplies, but ran through the smoke anyway when they were saving children and adults. Do you want to say anything about the firefighters?

Sen. Rivera: I cannot possibly thank the FDNY enough for what they did, not only in this situation and the description of some of the-- You describe how some of these folks were running out of oxygen, et cetera. The reality is that this is the every day. When we are running in one direction they are running in the opposite direction to make sure that they can go to the problem as opposed to run away from it.

It is because of the swift and incredibly brave actions of these men and women that we don't have even a further calamity. I'm incredibly thankful and I know every single person in my district and I'm sure across the city we are reminded today of how important, how essential they are, and I thank them for their bravery. Again, without their swift and decisive and courageous action, I'm sure that much more tragedy would've struck us on Sunday. Thank you again.

Brian: Senator Rivera, I know it's a busy time for you with all of this. Thank you for coming on today.

Sen. Rivera: Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Brian.

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