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Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. In New York, every year there are two big deadlines for the state legislature to pass major bills. We're in the home stretch now for the first one, the beginning of the new fiscal year on April 1st. The other is the end of the legislative year in June. The approaching budget deadline has a few major unresolved controversies. One is the perennial issue of affordable housing. Governor Hochul's big housing construction push failed last year, as many of you know, due to suburban opposition to building more affordable housing in many areas just outside the city.

The governor and legislature are trying again this year in different ways. There are other issues too. As more federal COVID-era money expires, mayoral control of New York City public schools is up for renewal. The state grants the mayor that authority, if you didn't know, and there's a lot of debate about it this year. With me now, is New York State Senator Julia Salazar of Brooklyn, Williamsburg, Bushwick, and elsewhere around, in between there, one of the progressives pushing for a so-called Good Cause Eviction Bill, among other things. Salazar recently released a report with a community service society advocacy group for low-income New Yorkers that found more than half of market-rate tenants faced hikes last year because the state did not pass Good Cause. We'll talk about that and more.

Senator Salazar, always good to have you. Welcome back to WNYC.

Senator Julia Salazar: Thank you as always for having me, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Big picture first, if we can. The New York Times the other day identified school funding, taxing the rich, and housing as the big three issues in the budget deadline talks, New York focus ads, closing prisons, cutting Medicaid spending, and other things as question marks. I had seen that reporting on mayoral control of schools. What would be on your short list of issues very much in play? I know you want to talk about housing, which we will, but that and what else?

Senator Julia Salazar: Absolutely. Housing, as you know, is always a priority for me. I chair the Senate's Crime Victims Crime and Correction Committee. Public safety, as well as ensuring that our jails and prisons are operating in the most humane way possible is important to me. Not necessarily a fiscal item, but always something that we should be addressing in the legislature during session. Also more timely for the budget, taxing the ultra-wealthy and making sure that they pay their fair share so that we can increase revenue to implement all of the good policies that we want to see in our state, including robust funding for public education.

Brian Lehrer: You are an advocate of what's called Good Cause Eviction. Remind our listeners who aren't sure exactly what that means, what exactly that means in the legislation that you've got going, but also why this democratic super majority legislature hasn't passed it in the several years it's been up.

Senator Julia Salazar: Absolutely. I introduced the Good Cause Eviction Bill along with Assemblywoman Pamela Hunter from Syracuse in early 2019. What this would do, if it were law, is fundamentally protect many tenants in currently unregulated housing from outrageously high rent increases or from being evicted for no good reason. It would give tenants a rebuttable presumption in housing court if their landlord seeks to evict them. A presumption against the eviction if the landlord had raised the rent in that calendar year by a certain threshold in the bill, it's either 3% rent increase or 150% of the consumer price index, the change in the rate of inflation that year, whichever is higher, in this case and probably for the foreseeable future, 150% of the rate of inflation is higher than 3%. It's approximately double that 5% to 6%.

A presumption against eviction if the landlord sought to raise the rent by above that amount, or if the landlord fails to show good cause and the legislation enumerates what constitutes good cause. It's things you might expect, the tenant creating a nuisance, violating the law, violating the terms of their existing lease, et cetera.

Brian Lehrer: When we've talked about good cause before, we've cited that failure to pay your rent is a cause for eviction that would still be allowed. Are you saying, in your last answer, that if the landlord raises the rent and then you can't meet it, that then they can't evict you?

Senator Julia Salazar: If the landlord raised the rent by above this threshold of either 3% or 150% of CPI, the tenant would have the ability to-- They would have a defense in court, is what good cause would give them, from having to pay that rent increase. They would still be expected to pay the rent that they had agreed to pay. Nonpayment of rent that they agreed to pay would still constitute good cause to evict the tenant under this bill. Really this would primarily be addressing what are currently known as holdover evictions when, say a tenant is paying their rent on time every month, they're not violating the terms of a lease, they're a good tenant.

Ultimately when the lease expires, the landlord just says the lease is expired. Or if they don't have a lease at all, the property owner currently has the ability to tell them to get out or bring an eviction. Most of the time when that happens, tenants are either unaware of the rights that they do have or they have virtually no rights, if they live in unregulated housing, to fight that eviction. The vast majority of cases, they actually essentially self-evict and just choose to move.

Brian Lehrer: When you say 50% of CPI or consumer price index, are you saying that rent increases would effectively be limited to half the rate of inflation each year? If it's more than that, then tenants can't be evicted for non-payment?

Senator Julia Salazar: It would be 150%, so higher than--

Brian Lehrer: Oh, 150%?

Senator Julia Salazar: Yes. 1.5 times or 150%, same thing. If the current rate of inflation in the New York City area is 3.5%, which I believe it is, or even 2.5%, let's say, that would be a 5.5% rent increase. Anything above that, there would just be a rebuttable presumption in court that that is an unreasonably high rent increase. Given that it's a rebuttable presumption, that simply means that in those cases, if a landlord had a good reason or financial necessity to raise the rent above that amount, they could make that case and the judge would likely say, "Okay, you've demonstrated that you need, for financial reasons, to raise the rent above this amount, and we'll grant that to you." Maybe your property taxes went up significantly, whatever the case might be.

Brian Lehrer: To a lot of listeners, this may sound like common sense, a reasonable allowance for rate increase, and forgive my misunderstanding of that earlier, 1.5 times the rate of inflation. You could still be evicted if you're a bad tenant in other ways like you're causing trouble of many different kinds. It sounds like common sense, but obviously the landlords hate to have their hands tied in these ways or at all, but it hasn't gotten through your colleagues in the Democratic supermajority legislature.

Is there anything new about the version of the bill or anything new about the politics this year that you think is going to get good cause to yes, rather than another round of you coming on shows like this and saying things that a lot of people like, but then it getting voted down?

Senator Julia Salazar: We'd hate to see that we came so close to passing a comprehensive housing deal last year at the end of session. I was proud to be a part of those negotiations. However ultimately it failed. We cannot afford to see that happen again this year. I think what has changed is there is increased urgency. Unfortunately, New Yorkers are feeling even more pressure, and increasingly so on their wallets, on their bank accounts, on their ability to stay in their homes and pay their other household expenses.

We're seeing homelessness on the rise, unfortunately, which is often driven by evictions. There's an understanding that we need to bring stability to our communities and try to protect people from some egregiously high rent increases that we have seen. I think there also is stronger and more public support from organized labor for a comprehensive housing deal that includes Good Cause Eviction protections, which is really powerful and valuable to have in New York.

Also, there are folks in the real estate industry who previously maybe they were not taking this as seriously as needed in order to come to an agreement, but at this moment, are taking this seriously and reckoning with the need to expand tenant protections in the budget.

Brian Lehrer: We're talking with New York State Senator from Brooklyn, Julia Salazar, about Good Cause Eviction as an item in the New York State budget negotiations. The new fiscal year begins April 1st. A lot of items, including this, are very much in play right now. We'll see if we can touch on one or two others before we run out of time, and if not, we will certainly get to them in other segments between now and April 1st.

Senator, I want to acknowledge that there must be an organized campaign of tenants facing eviction in one particular part of Brooklyn, who are calling this show because we have like six, seven, eight lines of people calling with the same concern. I'm going to take one of those callers to represent the group. I'll just tell you before I do, that this has to do with eviction of tenants who work for Maimonides Hospital.

Valerie in Brooklyn, you're going to get the honor of representing about half a dozen other people on the board. Thank you for calling in. You're on WNYC.

Valerie: Good morning.

Brian Lehrer: Good morning.

Valerie: How are you? My name is Valerie [unintelligible 00:12:19]. I live in Brooklyn. I work for Maimonides Medical Center, who previously owned my building.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, ma'am.

Valerie: On March 31st, '24, the judge ruled that we should be evicted from our home, starting March 31st.

Brian Lehrer: Why?

Valerie: Maimonides owned my building up until 2018. We were served notices that we should surrender our apartment because they sold the building. Anyway, they continued to take rent from us up until March 2023. The service noticed that we should leave by March, and they just stopped taking rent from us.

Brian Lehrer: Maimonides owned the housing where workers at Maimonides rented. Then, Maimonides sold the building, and a lot of Maimonides' workers are now getting evicted because the landlord wants to do something else with the properties. Is that the basic story?

Valerie: They sold the building already. There is a new landlord.

Brian Lehrer: How many people do you think are in your position? Do you know?

Valerie: Right now?

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Valerie: Right now?

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Valerie: I would say maybe 40.

Brian Lehrer: You're supposed to be out by the end of this month?

Valerie: Right. They didn't give us any time or anything. The judge just ruled that by March 31st, Maimonides would start serving evictions.

Brian Lehrer: What are you doing? That's only two weeks away.

Valerie: It's so hard, sir, because I lived here for 24 years. I have accumulated so much. Where to go? I don't know. Where I could put all this stuff? I don't know. It's very, very hard.

Brian Lehrer: Valerie, thank you for calling in. Like I said, Senator Salazar, we have half-dozen other callers on the board with a similar story. Are you familiar with the Maimonides situation?

Senator Julia Salazar: Yes, I'm familiar with the situation that Valerie described. Unfortunately, it's not unique, even though it's deeply unjust. This is a situation, at least what's happening with Maimonides bringing these eviction cases, where if Good Cause Eviction were law, these tenants would be protected and Maimonides would at least be required to give a good cause to evict, and that is what they're seeking to do. My understanding is they're not seeking to implement a rent increase, and that this is affecting, as Valerie said, even more than 40 families right now who live in buildings previously owned by Maimonides. If Good Cause Eviction were law, they would have a fighting chance to stop this from happening and stay in their homes.

Brian Lehrer: The eviction, if Valerie is correct, is supposed to happen by the end of this month, just as the new fiscal year begins. You would pass the new budget that even if it included Good Cause Eviction, and stop this particular eviction, would only be past at the time that they're supposed to move out. If they're calling you, they're calling the show because you're the guest right now, then they must think there's something that the state legislature can do about this on an emergency basis. Is there?

Senator Julia Salazar: If there is, then we should absolutely take emergency action and do it as soon as possible given that these tenants have just a couple of weeks until they are facing eviction. I know that they are fighting their case. My hope is for the most immediate relief for them, that Maimonides would settle the cases and allow these tenants to remain in their homes. I think all of us have a responsibility to urge Maimonides to do that because they have the ability and the power to do that, to drop this case or to settle the cases. It's worse than unfortunate. It's devastating that because of the legislature's failure to pass Good Cause previously, tenants continue to be in these situations. We know that many families have faced eviction over the past five-and-a-half years that this bill has existed. They could have been helped if it'd been passed into law, and it just speaks to the urgency for us to act.

Brian Lehrer: Can I get you on one other thing before we run out of time in a minute? That is mayoral control of public schools. I've seen a few articles that indicate that progressives in the legislature like yourself in particular are not on board with giving Mayor Adams another round. I think it's four years that Governor Hochul has proposed. Is that your position? Do you think mayoral control of public schools may not be renewed?

Senator Julia Salazar: It is my position that we should not be extending mayoral control via the budget process for a few reasons. Personally, I voted against the two-year extension of mayoral control in June of 2022, which feels like it was just yesterday. The vast majority of my constituents who I heard from on this issue at the time, expressed opposition to extending mayoral control, and I needed my vote to reflect their opposition. I think that the legislature should wait to decide on whether to extend mayoral control until after the completion of the state education department's review and report on school governance in New York City that they're supposed to submit to us.

Their deadline was extended, but it's supposed to be complete by March 31st. That is not really adequate time for the legislature to review and responsibly extend mayoral control or address it in the budget. The current mayoral control law expires June 30th. I think that this is something that we should be addressing after the budget before we all return to our districts in June.

Brian Lehrer: You've got a few more months. Is your opinion that somebody other than the mayor should appoint the chancellor or make school policy?

Senator Julia Salazar: That is my stance. I think it's somewhat complicated, but I'm critical of mayoral control.

I think that there needs to be balance, and that school governance should be democratically voted on and selected by voters and stakeholders, more than the current PEP structure allows for, and more than mayoral control allows for. I think we can look to other cities like the city of Chicago, which is now just this year, later this year, transitioning to a new system of public school governance and phasing out mayoral control where they've had it for even longer than New York City, which is, as you know, only had mayoral control for about 20 years. I think that we should do that as well. We can do it in a way that is not abrupt or disruptive to school governance, but also restores more balance and democratic control of our schools to people.

Brian Lehrer: Last question on this. Were you suggesting that Chancellor should be an elected position in the city of New York?

Senator Julia Salazar: I would be supportive of that actually, of an elected Chancellor. I also want to hear more from my constituents about how they feel, specifically about electing the Chancellor, whether it should be done by school boards, or by the voters on the ballot.

Brian Lehrer: Democratic New York State Senator, Julia Salazar, of Brooklyn. Thank you so much for joining us, obviously, a lot of moving pieces as the budget deadline approaches at the end of this month. We'll be talking to other guests about other aspects that are in play. Thank you very much for talking about housing and mayoral control.

Senator Julia Salazar: Thank you so much for having me, Brian. Take care.

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