[music]

Brigid Bergin: I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian today. You're listening to The Brian Lehrer Show. In the news you might have missed at the end of 2022, New York banned the use of mercury in cosmetic products. Mercury is a neurotoxin. Even though, as Gothamist reports, the chemical is legal in small amounts as a preservative or germ killer, it's linked to several adverse health effects like cancer and developmental disorders. Karines Reyes, Democratic New York State Assembly member from the Bronx sponsored the bill and helped get it through the state legislature.

We'll speak with Assembly Member Reyes about the new law and talk about some of her other work in Albany on issues like abortion access statewide, and whether New York should legalize psychedelics. Reyes is a nurse by trade, a Bronxite of 20 years, born in Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic, and she identifies as Afro-Latina. As an aside, if you've been listening this week, maybe you know that The Brian Lehrer Show has kicked off a series about Afro-Latino history. Reyes' district includes the neighborhoods of West Farms, Parkchester, and Castle Hill in the Southeast Bronx. Assembly Member Reyes, welcome to WNYC.

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Good morning, Brigid. Thank you for having me.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, we want to open our phones right away for any questions about the new ban on the use of mercury and beauty products, or any other issue you want to ask Assembly Member Karines Reyes about. She's from the Bronx. Are there any constituents listening? Anybody from West Farms, Parkchester, Castle Hill? Talk to your assembly member now. The number is 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. Assembly Member, did I leave any part of your district out?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: No. The new lines did carve out Van Nest.

[chuckling]

Brigid Bergin: It's hard to keep track of all the new redistricting. The bill you sponsored now signed into law bans beauty products that contain mercury. What sorts of products are we talking about here?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: It's interesting because mercury is a very effective skin lightener and is found commonly in products like anti-aging creams, creams that talk about removing age spots, blemishes, freckles, wrinkles. More broadly, we see it in products targeted to communities of color as skin-lightening soaps and creams. Mercury does have an aggregate effect. The quantity and length of use is important to determine toxicity. We know that folks who use these products use it daily and regularly over the course of many years.

It's easy to theorize how this can be linked to some developmental disorders in children. We talk about learning disorders in communities of color and how some of our children struggle in school. Mercury is something that can cross the placenta and can affect an unborn baby. It could cross through the milk of breastfeeding mothers and has deep neurologic effects, particularly in the developing brains of children.

Brigid Bergin: How common of an ingredient is it? Can you say anything about the scope of the law and how many products will now have to be removed from the shelves?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Yes. The law, actually, there was a lot of negotiation in the law because we wanted an outright ban on mercury altogether. There are some trace of amounts of mercury present in some products through the good manufacturing practices.

What we did was is we pegged the law back to the federal standard, which allows for one part in a million in trace amounts through good manufacturing standards and up to 65 parts per million be used as a preservative if there is no other safe or effective preservative that could be used in that product. That's a very, very small amount. The FDA has been really good at trying to get some of these products off the shelves, but a lot of them come into the country illegally.

This is where we see it in our communities and in our beauty supply stores. There's a lot of products that come from Asia, from Africa, from the Caribbean that are labeled and targeted for skin lightening particularly. That is something that we think that it's a little harder to be able to control. There was a very targeted PR campaign from the FDA, the CDC, and the city of New York as well letting consumers know that these products are bad for you. That mercury has very damaging effects not just for individuals, but the unborn children of pregnant women, and that they should stop using the products immediately.

Brigid Bergin: One thing, can you clear up for us, Assembly Member, is mercury also in some hair products?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Yes, it has been found in some hair products. Mercury is a naturally occurring element. We also find it in foods. There's a fish that has some kind of elemental mercury in it as well. The idea is that if you can control the amount of mercury that you put in your body or limit that, then that should be the goal. We believe that there should be no cosmetic product, whether it be topically applied on your skin or on your hair, that should have mercury in it. Like I said, there is some in hair products as well that can occur through the manufacturing process or for preservatives.

Brigid Bergin: Are there any other risks specific to mercury exposure that you want to make sure that we understand?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Yes. Mercury is absorbed readily through the skin and through broken skin, but also it has effects not just on the neurological system, it causes mood disorders. We've seen it in children. Mood disorders, depression, behavioral disorders. For adults, we've also seen renal impairments. It really has an effect on the kidneys because it's one of the organs that processes toxins, and that can build up in kidneys as well.

Brigid Bergin: It's like a horror show. It's The Brian Lehrer Show in WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian today. My guest is Assembly Member Karines Reyes. We're talking about legislation she sponsored to ban beauty products containing mercury which she has laid out the multitude of risks associated with it. Assembly Member, can you talk about how the law is going to be enforced?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Yes. Enforcement is always the key and difficult thing about laws. Currently, the FDA has been very proactive in ensuring that products that are coming into the country don't have any mercury in them. Part of it is also going to be rely heavily on consumers to report some of these retailers that are carrying these products. They do targeted raids or surprise raids in storefronts where this is common. The biggest source of enforcement is customs and how products come into the country, whether it be through sea or air.

Brigid Bergin: Assembly Member, there may be some listeners who might struggle to understand why folks would go to such great lengths to lighten the color of one's skin or change the texture of one's hair, whether it involves toxic chemicals or not. That just reinforces the point that culture is a really important part of this conversation. How much does white supremacy and white cultural imagery drive people toward these products?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: There is a reason why there are certain communities that are more vulnerable to the harms of mercury and skin-lightening products and the straightening of hair. That's because culturally for people of color, there is a Eurocentric standard of beauty that is really difficult to attain and can be all-consuming and damaging to not just our emotional well-being and our self-esteem, but also clearly our health. It's interesting because you were talking about being Afro-Latina and that being my identity, and that's something that I've always been very cognizant and aware of from a very young age.

My Dominican family, my mother's family, is Black. I'm half Puerto Rican. My Puerto Rican family is white. There was never a point in my life where I was unaware of my color and the texture of my hair. It was always a topic of conversation. I know that's the reality for many Latinos who identify as Black or have Black roots because, oftentimes, and unfortunately, the image of Latinos has been dominated by voices that are white-presenting in the US and that is not the reality for average Latino people. We all have a history of colonialism and slavery in our home countries, and that colorism permeates through our identity in ways that even our self-expression is something that is impacted.

We see that through these products and the culture of hair straightening. For example, in the Dominican Republic, everybody knows that if you want a good blowout, you go to a Dominican hair salon. That is all the history of colonialism and white supremacy that our country is predicated on and has become just part of the fabric of the culture that we've been trying to break. I always say that the way I wear my hair is not just for convenience and because that's how I was born and how God blessed me, but it's also a political statement that I make. I remember when I was very young and I went to get my Dominican ID, I was turned away because my hair wasn't straightened.

Brigid Bergin: Wow.

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Ever since then, I've never straightened my hair.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to go to Iliya in New Jersey. Iliya, welcome to WNYC.

Iliya: Thank you so much for taking my call and thank you very much, Assemblywoman, for doing this important work. I have a couple of questions. One is what's made it difficult to get consensus and alignment around this legislation. I'm just wondering since this product was so egregious in terms of the health effects, what are some of the roadblocks that you faced passing this legislation? Then another question I had is if you had to have another chemical that you want to go after, what would that be? I can take my answer off air. Thank you both.

Brigid Bergin: Great question. Thanks so much. Assembly Member.

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Sure. The cosmetic industry lobby is very rich and powerful, and that was one of the biggest pushbacks that we were getting. Not directly. We didn't see a lot of outward memos of opposition, but we know that during the negotiation process, they were talking to the governor's team about how this would be cost-prohibitive for the manufacturing of their products. We know how lucrative the beauty industry is. You can imagine if Estee Lauder or L'Oréal would have to limit or change just their manufacturing practices in order to sell products in New York State alone, what that would cost them. That was some of our-- [crosstalk]

Brigid Bergin: Some big challenges.

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Yes.

Brigid Bergin: Anything else that you are looking at going forward?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: In terms of cosmetics, not currently, but I do know that we have other colleagues that have been banning other kinds of products, other kinds of chemicals in cosmetics. I guess off the top of my head, I can't think.

Brigid Bergin: Sure.

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: If you would do a quick bill search in the legislative website, you would find a number of bans on certain chemicals.

Brigid Bergin: Let's pivot a little bit and talk about some of the other work that you're doing in Albany. I want to talk to you some about one of your interests in bolstering abortion access in this state. From your perspective, what is the state of abortion access in New York in 2023?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: After the Roe decision, I think we all scrambled to figure out what would become of abortion access in New York State. Luckily, in 2019, we had codified the Reproductive Health Act in the state of New York. It was interesting because, during that debate, the Republicans would tell us why are we doing this, Roe will never be overturned, it's protected under the federal law. Here we are in 2022 and we saw that that wasn't the case, which is why it's so important that we take very, very direct steps in making sure that we protect abortion access in New York. Along with the 2019 Reproductive Health Act, we currently just did the second passage of the Equality Amendment in the state of New York.

That's a constitutional amendment which requires us to pass it twice in two different legislative bodies, and now it goes off to the ballot for the voters to vote on it. That codifies pregnancy, pregnancy-related conditions, gender expression, all these things that ultimately also have an impact on reproductive access in New York. Another thing that I'm working on, of course, is the Abortion Access Fund along with other of my colleagues who have other abortion-related funding streams. The Abortion Access Fund just allows for individuals when they file their taxes to make a charitable contribution to a fund that would go to expanding access to people who can't afford it. Go ahead.

Brigid Bergin: Sorry to interrupt you. I want to just back up for a minute about the constitutional amendment because I just have one follow-up question about that in terms of, so it is now passed for the second time in the legislature, it can go before voters next year, correct?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Correct.

Brigid Bergin: Then do you anticipate it requiring some focus dedicated campaign so that voters know about it? I can't help but think of some recent constitutional amendments that I think lawmakers anticipated wouldn't have faced the kind of hurdles that they faced that failed related to election law and voting access. Do you have any concerns about that and any sense that that will need to be a priority?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Absolutely. Like you mentioned, we saw other constitutional amendments fail on the ballot recently and we want to make sure that that's not the case for the Equality Amendment. Let's be clear that groups who oppose the Equality Amendment are going to be pouring money into making sure that it fails like the other constitutional amendments did.

I think it's incumbent upon us not just the leaders but communities and media outlets to let folks know that this is going to be on the ballot. One, to remind people to turn the ballot over and vote on the constitutional amendment but to really understand what it means and the implications that it has to individual freedoms and the ability of people to make decisions about who they are and how they live in our state.

Brigid Bergin: We have a caller from Elizabeth, New Jersey. Francine, welcome to The Brian Lehrer Show.

Elizabeth: Good morning. I know that when I originally saw the issues of the mercury and the skin-lightening creams and the hair stuff, I was pretty much directed to just the African American and Latino community. We also need to be aware that there is a huge market within the US amongst the AAPI community. A lot of the creams that you'll see in some of the places in the downtown areas and shops are specifically marketed to that community. I don't know if the messaging about how damaging this stuff can be is really being directed at that community as well, but it's a community we should not forget because they're huge in New York and in New Jersey.

Brigid Bergin: Francine, thank you so much for that call. Assembly Member, can you talk a little bit about how this message is getting out?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Absolutely and thank you, Francine, for that point. You're right, it's not just for Black and brown communities but the AAPI community as well. A lot of these products come from Asia. I think that's important to note and that it's also targeted to not just people of color but women and women of a certain age because of how mercury works in terms of age spots and targeting the melanin and the darkening of skin as folks get older.

We've had environmental justice groups that have been doing their own campaigns and there has been information being put out by the FDA and the city of New York around the health impacts of mercury and products and informing people to no longer use them and not purchase them, but all campaigns cost money and require a lot of resources that we may not necessarily have. I think that's why it's so important that this bill passed and we're banning mercury products in the state of New York and the sale of it. I think that word of mouth and leaning heavily on media outlets to make this a top-of-mind issue is important as well.

Brigid Bergin: Assembly Member, I want to get you one more question from Greg in West Babylon. Greg, I think your question is something that we've heard from a couple of callers. If you could just real quick because this is our last couple minutes of the segment.

Greg: Sure. Wanted to know, is this something that's listed on the products as an ingredient or are they not required to do so?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Good question, Greg. Most products that contain mercury, when they're manufactured in the US will say mercury, mercurous chloride, calomel, mercurio, mercuric. You will see things like that listed in the ingredients label, but the problem here is that a lot of the products that do contain mercury, because they're imported from other countries, sometimes won't list ingredients at all or the ingredients will be listed in another language. I think those are red flags for consumers to know that those products are probably not safe.

Brigid Bergin: Assembly Member, I just want to put a fine point on this. We're talking about consumers who are impacted by this, but there's also a population of workers, particularly I would think workers in salons, who deal with these types of products all the time that this new law could potentially protect, hopefully, and make their lives safer. Correct?

Assembly Member Karines Reyes: Yes. Mercury is something that you can be exposed to it not just when it's applied on skin, but you can inhale it as well. After a certain temperature, it vaporizes. You can get it from drying your hands from towels and it being contaminated on surfaces. Absolutely, people in the beauty industry and those who work in salons also are at high risk for exposure. Hopefully, this will protect them as well.

Brigid Bergin: We're going to have to leave it there for today with Assembly Member Karines Reyes. Thanks so much for joining me.

Copyright © 2023 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.