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Brigid Bergen: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergen filling in for Brian today. Now we're going to wrap up today's show with a look into the lives of our youngest workers. In yesterday's show, we discussed how the pandemic has warped our sense of time. At the start of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, Gen-Z, roughly defined as those born between the years of 1997 and 2012, had just begun graduating college and joining the workforce.

Now, three years later, even more of them have completed those milestones and find themselves in their first full-time positions. That's not really unusual, but what is unique about this generation's experience is how much the working world has changed over these past few years and how rapidly those changes have come. For many sectors of the economy, gone are the days of working nine to five from a cubicle and an office.

We're not really mingling with our coworkers every day and casually attending happy hours or brainstorming sessions. Those just entering the workforce now have never experienced that kind of lifestyle. Remote or hybrid work is just the norm. We will note that we know that this does not apply to all Gen-Z workers in the workforce, that there are many people who work in retail, in hospitality, teachers, first responders, where showing up every day is still very much a part of what you do.

Our colleagues at WNYC, All Things Considered, are taking the month to discuss the future of work. As part of that series, they looked at how Gen-Z has fared during their transition into the workforce under these changed circumstances after the COVID pandemic. Joining us now to discuss their findings is Elizabeth Shwe, one of the producers of All Things Considered here at WNYC. Elizabeth, welcome to The Brian Lehrer Show. It's so great to have you here.

Elizabeth Shwe: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Brigid Bergen: Listeners, are you Gen-Z or do you have Gen-Z colleagues? What have you observed about this generation's transition into the workforce, and what are some of the generational gaps you are experiencing? Gen-Z, do you feel connected to and comfortable with your more mature colleagues? Do they get your memes? How do you think you are performing in your role, and is your performance well communicated to you? Do you feel that you were properly onboarded and set up to succeed? Give us a call. The number's 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. We are speaking to you Gen-Z listeners of Brian Lehrer. Give us a call and tell us what your experience has been like. Elizabeth, what prompted you to look into how Gen-Z are faring in the workplace?

Elizabeth Shwe: The pandemic changed a lot of things in our daily lives, including how we work. I wanted to see what that meant for New York City, a city so known for its hustle culture, and so this month on All Things Considered, like you said, we are looking at what the future of work looks like in New York City. The oldest members of Gen-Z, they graduated college and entered the workforce in such an uncertain time, an unpredictable time. Some of them only have experience working remotely or in a hybrid way. Since mentorship and networking is particularly important to those younger professionals or new career professionals, I was wondering how they were doing.

Brigid Bergen: You yourself are a resident Gen-Z team member at All Things Considered. When did you join the workforce and how's it been going for you?

Elizabeth Shwe: I was part of that class year that didn't really have a full graduation, a real graduation. COVID hit in my last semester of college in 2020, so I felt like I didn't really get a closure of my end-of-student life. I started my first full-time journalism job right after that in Baltimore in a city I didn't really know. I didn't know a lot of people there and it was my first time living there, so it was really isolating actually.

I just had home and the grocery store to visit. I really leaned on my family and friendships during that time, and it actually changed what my priorities were in post-grad life. I started prioritizing personal life more, and that's something I didn't really do during school. Now I have a pretty strict work-life balance that I don't think I would've had were it not for that experience.

Brigid Bergen: Wow, that's so interesting. In the segment you produced for All Things Considered on this topic, you highlight a study that found remote work reduced the amount of feedback junior engineers received at one technology firm. What does that reduced amount of feedback look like and what does it mean for those workers?

Elizabeth Shwe: That study compared a team of engineers who were working in the same building and a team that were working in different buildings, and they found that the team that worked together in person had 20% more feedback on their computer code. They found that engineers sitting near their teammates received more feedback because people were more comfortable asking follow-up questions during code reviews.

Their conclusion was that decreased training for the more junior workers had future costs, like it can decrease younger workers' skill over time. The trade-offs were actually pretty pronounced for women. They found that when not sitting next to a colleague, junior woman engineers tended to ask and receive less mentorship. Researchers suggested that there might be other management tools in a way that mentorship can work if you're not face-to-face, so maybe formalizing training that was previously based on informal interactions.

Brigid Bergen: So interesting. Gen-Z, I am talking to you right now. We want to hear about your experience entering the workforce, and what are some of the generational gaps you're experiencing. We also want to hear from colleagues of Gen-Z. What are you noticing both good and bad about your team members that joined the workforce in this new world? Are there any experiences you had that you fear they're not getting because they don't have to go into an office every day? Is your team making any efforts to provide those experiences despite operating in a remote or hybrid world? What are you doing to bring Gen-Z into the fold? This is an open call for everyone, Gen-Z, and Gen-Z adjacent. Give us a call, 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. Let's go to Sargon in Brooklyn. Sargon, thanks for calling WNYC.

Sargon: Hi, how are you?

Brigid Bergen: I'm great. What has your workforce experience been like?

Sargon: It's definitely been strange. I guess I'm an older Gen-Z because I am 25, but I've been doing this remote stuff for a long time now. I graduated in 2020 and the last two semesters of college were essentially remote already. Then there was a long period of looking for work during the pandemic, and then my first job was completely remote. Then now on my second job, I'm 25, and this job is mostly remote with one day a week going in person.

I would say it's just generally harder to understand where my standing is, like going off my work performance in terms of promotions and job growth. I left my last one because I didn't have a good grasp on that, and I feel like it's just difficult to keep understanding how well I'm performing compared to my colleagues and stuff related to that. Internal growth feels more difficult.

Brigid Bergen: Do you have an option to go into the office or is your function completely remote 100% of the time?

Sargon: It is once a week in person, which makes it difficult because there is no specific day people go in. You could go into the office for one day a week and there'll be no one in there. It just seems like it's a requirement coming from the top.

Brigid Bergen: Interesting. Elizabeth, any reaction to that? It sounds like some of what you found in the research and the study is echoed in Sargon's experience.

Elizabeth Shwe: That sounds familiar with a lot of people I spoke with who are younger professionals and also the study like having a harder grasp, understanding what your colleagues are doing, and asking for the help.

Brigid Bergen: Building the formal and informal networks that you get when you're with people on a regular basis. This study focused on junior engineers, but what about the senior ones? How was working remotely and not needing to put energy into mentoring juniors affecting their outcomes?

Elizabeth Shwe: The effects were pretty large for the senior engineers. When the offices were open, senior engineers actually wrote 39% less programs than when they were remote. This increased productivity at home may come in part from them having less of a burden to do that mentorship. One person I talked to has been working in the software industry for the last 30 years. She said she spends a lot of time mentoring new employees, and she's fully remote now and she says that she doesn't think mentorship is particularly difficult, it's just different now. She did say remote work highlighted that non-management employees aren't necessarily paid or rewarded for mentoring their younger, junior peers. Now companies are confronted with the fact that they may have to pay for that kind of mentorship kind of work.

Brigid Bergen: Sure. We know that there are certainly some also positive outcomes of returning to the office. One of the young professionals I think you spoke with for this segment on All Things Considered was pretty strongly not in favor of a return to office policy that a lot of companies are putting in place now. Can you introduce this person and explain to us their sentiments?

Elizabeth Shwe: Yes. His name was Jayden [unintelligible 00:10:28]. He just started his first full-time job at strategy consulting just graduating from NYU this spring. He's been in the job for three to four months. He says the pros of having hybrid work really outweighs the cons for him. He can figure out his personal schedule, like when he wants to do laundry, and when he wants to do a yoga after noon class. He can choose which days he's remote, which days he's in the office, and he told me he wouldn't give that up.

Brigid Bergen: That's so interesting. One last question before we wrap up. The future of work seems to be very influx right now as companies are pushing. What are you looking for, in the last 10 seconds, in terms of an ideal work-life balance?

Elizabeth Shwe: For me, I think an ideal work-life balance is a hybrid situation, maybe a few days a week where everyone on the team has to come in so that no one ends up in the office alone and has to do Zoom calls. That way, you can keep the flexibility and also get to collaborate with your colleagues.

Brigid Bergen: We're going to have to leave it there. My guest was Elizabeth Shwe, assistant producer at WNYC's All Things Considered, and great colleague who I'm glad to have in the office with me right now. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Elizabeth Shwe: Thank you for having me.

Brigid Bergen: You're listening to The Brian Lehrer Show. Tune in again tomorrow, same time, same place.

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