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Brian Lehrer: Brian on WNYC. By the end by the end of next week, Mayor Eric Adams and the New York City Council are supposed to complete a budget for the new fiscal year that begins next Saturday, July 1st. One sticking point that we seem to need to talk about nearly every year is whether to cut funding to the City's libraries.

Often, this is theater. The mayor proposes cuts, City Council negotiates to restore them, the mayor eventually agrees, and everyone looks at least a little bit like a hero. This year may be different, with Adams pushing hard for a long list of cuts to many agencies based on projected revenue problems for the City in the year ahead.

Let's talk about what might happen and what's at stake, and we'll take your calls on how you actually use libraries today with the leaders of all three New York City Public library systems; Dennis Walcott, CEO and president of the Queen's Public Library System, Linda Johnson, president and CEO of the Brooklyn Public Library, and Iris Weinshaw, chief operating officer and treasurer at the New York Public Library, which covers Manhattan, Staten Island, and the Bronx. Thanks for coming on today. Welcome, all three of you. Welcome back to WNYC.

Dennis Walcott: Thank you, Brian.

Linda Johnson: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Dennis, you want to start and lay out what kinds of cuts are on the table and the implications for users in the City if they go through?

Dennis Walcott: Well, each of us will be handling the cuts a little differently, but I know for Queens, we're looking at the total elimination of Sunday service, the end of universal Saturday service. We'll be paring back on Saturday service, fewer dollars for collections, and then also deferring a lot of maintenance that comes out of the expense capital money. All those will impact the system, especially as we continue to grow with more and more customers coming through our doors and looking to us for services.

For example, when I came into the office this morning, the line was wrapped around the block as far as asylum seekers who were coming here at Central Library in Jamaica to get services, to get IDs, and then be part of the library family. That will not be available on Saturdays and on weekends. All these will have a severe impact for us in Queens as far as ability to provide the services on weekend, and also not having the ability to go into the community on weekends as well.

Brian Lehrer: Linda, want to give us a preview of what it would mean from the Brooklyn Public Library perspective?

Linda Johnson: Yes, sure. Thank you, Brian. Dennis did a great job explaining what the various levers are and where we can go to make cuts. There's not that many options because our budget is largely spent on wages and salaries, which translate to hours of operation. That's always the most dramatic piece of any scaling back on all three systems.

I would say just generally for context, that the libraries were initially going to receive a bigger cut than is currently on the table. The administration peeled that back before the executive budget was released. It was a clear recognition of the essential services that the library offers to people who are here in New York City.

The mountain is still steep, not as bad as it was. I think that the mayor's step in this regard is a reflection of all of the elected officials who deeply understand the value of libraries in our communities not just as places to come and read, although that's certainly important, but, as Dennis explained, to receive a whole set of services that make them engage citizens and productive in their communities.

These cuts this year feel not only drastic but more imminent than they have in the past. We're more concerned, I think than ever. There's been a very strong advocacy push that we're hoping will help us get to where we need to be next week.

Brian Lehrer: Iris, we've heard the Brooklyn and Queens perspectives. You want to add anything from the New York Public Library office, which represents the libraries in Staten Island, the Bronx, and Manhattan? Do we have Iris?

Iris Weinshaw: Sorry. Thanks, Brian. I just want to thank you for having us on the show to be able to talk about this really crucial issue for New Yorkers. Like Brooklyn and Queens, we are going to have to cut back on hours, and we're going to lose morning and evening hours at NYPL. That will really put at risk a lot of teens who come to our library, particularly in the summer, to our teen centers, to our various programs. That will be a major cut for us.

In addition, we would have to eliminate all Sunday service. Let me just say, for a lot of New Yorkers who have to work six days a week, Sunday service is important. It's an opportunity for them to come with their kids or alone, to be able to use the resources of the library.

Also, we have six new libraries that have been totally renovated. They are due to open up next year. If these cuts go through, we can only afford to open up three of these new libraries. Three would have to be mothballed. They wouldn't be able to be open. The three that are not opened, the teen centers associated with them, would also not be open.

I just want to say one more thing, I know both presidents talked about this. We would all have to cut back on repairs to libraries. The vision of portable boilers outside of libraries, having to close libraries because of no elevator service or because things just fail or things fall that would be greatly, greatly reduced, and branches would close because we just wouldn't have the money to fix it.

Just one last thing. I think what we're all saying is that we really need from the City a stable funding source. When we had a stable funding source a few years ago, we were all three able to plan ahead and to plan ahead in terms of creating new programs, maintaining new programs, and just knowing that we don't have to do this dance every year and figure out what's going to get cut and what's not going to get cut.

Brian Lehrer: Now, listeners, some calls are coming in like this spontaneously, but I want to invite others in as we talk about the library's budget to talk about how you use libraries these days. Our guests have all mentioned the obvious fact that most of you probably know it's not just about borrowing books anymore. It's never just about borrowing books. The services are more diverse and more crucial to so many members of various communities in New York City than they ever were that come from libraries.

Shout out your local branch. Show some love for a particular librarian, if you would like to do that. Say how you see the library playing a role in the neighborhood that maybe it didn't play yet when you first went to the library as a kid to take out a book. Or ask these three leaders of the Brooklyn, Queens, and New York Public Libraries, respectively, any question. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Let's take one of those calls right now. Lisa in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Lisa.

Lisa: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I use the library as an older person, and I use it for all my internet needs, and I use it for cooling. I had a great librarian who left that branch, and I never realized how important it is to have a great librarian in your life. I don't like the kids playing video games, especially. They're not allowed on the computers under 13, and my local branch allows that, so I won't shout them out. I think games are for the park, and libraries are for learning and being truthful about your age and about everything else.

It's just browsing and learning and periodicals. It's essential to my life. I like the way the person talked about the importance of Sunday service. It's really important to have Sunday service, and I do appreciate the libraries greatly. I'm so grateful to have one in my neighborhood.

Brian Lehrer: Lisa, thank you for that call. Let's go to another caller. Here's Dash in Hell's Kitchen. You're on WNYC. Hello, Dash.

Dash: Hey, Brian. Good morning. I'm just wondering. I'm against all the library budget cuts. I think we should be fully funding our libraries, and I don't think we should be raising the police budget in order to-- Sorry. I lost my train of thought. Anyway [cross talk]

Brian Lehrer: Yes, which results in cutting other things more. I hear you.

Dash: Thank you. Thank you for finishing that thought. My question is, why do we go straight to cutting weekend hours at the library? I think of the weekend as the time that I spent the most time with my child at the library, Saturdays and Sundays when they're not in school and they want to go do something fun, go pick out books to have for the week. Why do the closures happen on the weekends instead of Mondays and Tuesdays, or less traffic times at the library when they're paying staff and there aren't as many people coming into the library?

Brian Lehrer: Dash, thank you very much. Dennis, you mentioned weekend cuts as a likely result if these budget cuts go through in city council and with the mayor. What do you say to Dash's question? Maybe it would be better to close them on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Dennis Walcott: Again, I think we're all handling it maybe a little bit differently, but with weekends, especially Sunday, Sunday is used for overtime, and that's just straight, pure OT. As Linda indicated and Iris indicated, that we're a personnel-driven business, and as great librarian, great customer service individuals, and that's important.

When you take a look at Sunday, Sunday is really an expensive day for us, and that's just the way the structure is set. With Saturdays, again, Saturdays, I understand what the caller is saying, but there's also high demand during the week.

Ideally, and Iris talked about this with full funding and stable funding, that gives us the ability to expand our hours and be even more creative than we are at this point because we are extremely creative within a limited budget. If the budget is cut further, that creativity just goes out the door. While our program people will continue to do good things to serve the community, the ability to have the amount of hours to do it and the timeline of doing it on weekends is definitely not going to be as robust.

Iris Weinshaw: Brian, can I [unintelligible 00:12:19]?

Brian Lehrer: Yes, go ahead.

Iris Weinshaw: I just wanted to say something. The woman before, she made a very good point that I just want to follow up on. We, the three library systems, have a really good partnership with the City of New York. It's a reliable partnership. She talked about a cooling center. When the weather gets hot, it's difficult or whatever reasons people need the libraries. We keep the libraries open so people don't have to go into apartments or homes that they have no air conditioning, or if there's a blackout, if we're not affected, we keep it open.

Also, we're there in times of need. Linda and Dennis mentioned the asylum seekers. We are all three systems doing a tremendous amount of work for asylum seekers.

During the pandemic, we gave out tests. We let people come in if they had no place to go. We all came up with creative ways for people to be able to borrow books and just have a safe place to be. I just want to say that we are all proud of the partnership that we have with the City of New York and all the services that we are able to provide.

Brian Lehrer: This is WNYC FM HD NAM, New York. WNJT FM 88.1, Trenton. WNJP 88.5, Sussex. WNJY 89.3, Netcong, and WNJO 90.3, Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey public radio, and live streaming @wnyc.org.

A few more minutes on the projected cuts to New York City's library systems that City Council is seriously considering as being pushed by the mayor's office in this year of a budget crunch as they come to a final budget agreement we anticipate by next Friday because the new fiscal year starts next Saturday.

Our guests are leaders of all three New York City public library systems, Dennis Walcott, president and CEO of the Queen's Public Library System, Linda Johnson, president and CEO of the Brooklyn Public Library, and Iris Weinshall, COO, chief operating officer and treasurer at the New York Public Library, which covers Manhattan, Staten Island, and the Bronx.

Before we leave this question of weekends, Linda, you had also brought it up with respect to Brooklyn, I'm curious. Do people use the libraries differently on the weekends than on the weekdays and that's one of the reasons you want to preserve weekend service?

Linda Johnson: We have over millions of visitors every year, and there's no one way that people use the libraries. I think the issue is, as Dennis points out, that Sunday is a very expensive day for us to operate. When we're trying to maximize the amount that we can do with the budget that we have, that's why Sunday is a logical place to go.

I think it depends on the community. Of course, there are some communities that don't use the library on Saturdays but need it on Sundays. As Iris points out, for families who have two working parents and need to bring that or want to bring their children to the library together to interact with their children as they're learning, which we encourage greatly, the weekends are the ideal time to do that. We are fighting for those weekend hours for sure.

Brian Lehrer: Iris, since you are the treasurer of the New York Public Library as well as chief operating officer, let me throw this question to you. The mayor might argue that these are more seriously budget crunch times than during the de Blasio years when this annual dance of proposed library cuts and then not going through with them had the luxury, perhaps, of just being theater. Now, the mayor wants cuts from almost every agency and maybe the libraries are going to have to take a hit because the environment, the fiscal environment, has just changed. Do you see it that way?

Iris Weinshaw: We recognize that the fiscal situation of the City has changed as a result of the pandemic and how people are going to work or not going to work. Taxes are at risk as well as high-end real estate selling. Let me just say that the total budget for all three systems is about $450,000,000. I'm not belittling the fact that that's a lot of money. It is.

If you consider that we are a very small part of the overall 100-billion-dollar budget, just 0.4%, it doesn't seem that dire. The other gentleman on the phone said about more money for police. We're not pitting one city agency against another. We're just fighting for our piece of the pie.

I just want to say, Brian, all the services that we provide, all the different type of services that are so desperately needed in this city, it would be a shame to have to cut back on them for what we believe is a very small part. Now, like Linda, we are appreciative that the mayor restored the April budget cut, because let me tell you, that would have been enormous for all three systems. Just enormous. We were looking at really huge cutbacks in both hours and service.

We all provide educational programs, and at NYPL, this is all privately funded, all of our education programs. If we don't have librarians in the libraries to keep the lights on, all of that would be at risk. I think my two fellow compatriots here would say, we do appreciate the enormity of what's going on, but everybody fights for their little piece of the pie. We're fighting for our piece of the pie.

Dennis Walcott: Brian, can I just [crosstalk]--

Linda Johnson: I'd like to just chip in, because I think what Iris is saying is exactly right, but I would go even further, and that is, if you look at what's at stake right now for the three library systems, we're talking about $36.2 million. That is, relative to the total budget, truly a pittance. Again, not to minimize the dollars here [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: No, but let me give the numbers since you brought that up. The total city budget for the next fiscal year is going to be something like $106 billion. You're saying this is only 30-ish million of that.

Linda Johnson: Exactly.

Brian Lehrer: As a percentage, it's tiny.

Linda Johnson: Tiny. The other thing is, we talk about this, you get a lot for your money with the library. We do a tremendous amount with the budget that we're given. We are appreciative of the partnership. We're great partners, as Iris pointed out, with the City. She said in times of need, but in good times also. We deliver a lot and you'll get a lot of value for every city dollar that we receive.

I think it's generally felt in the public right now, I feel this more strongly this year perhaps than any, that cutting these services would be truly a mistake. For what we are talking about delivering and what we would need to cut back on, it would truly have a bad effect on the quality of life in the City of New York.

Brian Lehrer: Let me get one more caller in here. Lauren in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Lauren.

Lauren Comito: Hi, Brian. My name is Lauren Comito. I'm actually the executive director of Urban Librarians Unite. We're an advocacy organization for libraries in New York City. Hi, everybody. Hi, Linda. [chuckles]

Linda Johnson: Hi, Lauren.

Dennis Walcott: Hi, Lauren.

Lauren Comito: How's it going?

Linda Johnson: [chuckles ]

Lauren Comito: I really wanted to take a moment to talk about-

Brian Lehrer: You didn't need me to have this conversation, apparently, to know each other, but go ahead-

Lauren Comito: [chuckles ]

Brian Lehrer: -for the sake of our listeners.

Lauren Comito: I would love to take a second to talk about how library workers are the hearts of their communities. The library as a space is a place where people can come together from all walks of life. Something we're missing in society is the idea that someone who at one time had someone who sleeps on the street encouraging a kid who was getting tutored by math and telling him he was going to get it, those things don't happen in other places.

We don't have this humanity and care for each other that happens in the library anywhere but the library. That's created by staff, which is funded by the City funding that we get. We connect people with social services because they come here first, and then we create this space where our neighbors can care for each other and interact in a way that doesn't happen elsewhere. Losing that would be-

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much.

Lauren Comito: -a heartbreaking situation.

Brian Lehrer: As we wrap up, just to go back to the question of relative cuts, I think you all made it very clear what a small percentage of the overall city budget the libraries are. As everything seems to be on the chopping block, or at least so many things from so many different agencies, Dennis, you used to be the New York City Public Schools Chancellor. Are we in this unfortunate situation where we could do segment after segment, day after day with you from the libraries, then somebody from the mental health community, then somebody representing the Department of Education, and on down the line having to fight for these scraps?

Dennis Walcott: Yes, I think the challenge for us is being [inaudible 00:22:45] large. As Iris indicated, Linda indicated, we have a great relationship with City Hall, with the mayor's office, with all his deputy mayors, and the commissioners. That's not the issue. People should know the impact of what we do. We do it all over for free. We are the truly last open democratic institution.

The other thing I just wanted to slip real quickly, Brian, is it's not just about the buildings. The libraries are in the community as well, beyond our buildings. We are providing services. The difference on weekends also is that the services we provide to the community is outside in addition to inside the building. That's how we are there.

Then the final thing for me, please, and we've talked about this as well, we're the true partner with the City. When the City needs vaccine sites, the libraries, when the City needs cooling centers, the libraries, when the city needs test, the libraries, when the City needs distribution of the testing for COVID, the libraries, with the distribution of masks, the libraries. We are there in addition to all the other services, so we're a great partner. The investment in libraries strengthens that partnership.

Brian Lehrer: Dennis Walcott, CEO and president of the Queens' Public Library System, Linda Johnson, president and CEO of the Brooklyn Public Library, and Iris Weinshall, COO, chief operating officer and treasurer at the New York Public Library, thank you all so much for coming on today. Good luck to all the systems.

Dennis Walcott: Thank you, Brian.

Linda Johnson: Thank you, Brian, for having us.

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