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Brian Lehrer: It's Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We begin today with a potential special coverage heads-up. We think the Supreme Court is going to hand down a ruling any minute on whether they have the jurisdiction to rule on the Texas abortion law, which bans almost all abortions in the state. If the court rules that they do not have jurisdiction, it means the federal court system can do nothing to overturn that law even if they think it violates a woman's constitutional rights under the court's Roe versus Wade decision.

The Texas state court system could still overturn it in that scenario and, in fact, that system took a step in that direction yesterday, but not the US Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court ruling comes down in a way that seems to have a major impact, we will go momentarily to NPR special coverage for the first part of this morning's show. A heads up on that, listeners, this could actually happen any second now, or it could be a few more minutes while reporters read a decision, or it might not happen at all. Such are the mysteries of the Supreme Court's lack of public calendar announcements, but we will let you know what happens either way.

I'll just give you a little bit of background as we wait to see if they do do this right away. The Texas law prohibits almost all abortions by setting a detectable fetal heartbeat standard as the latest a woman could have an abortion in Texas. That's around six weeks of pregnancy before most women even know they're pregnant. I read that around 85% of abortions in Texas are performed after that point. The Texas law was written specifically to try to evade Supreme Court review. How? By making it not the state, but private citizens who sue to enforce the law.

You've probably heard about some of this, those private citizens don't have to have a personal connection to a particular woman or doctor or clinic. They don't have to live in Texas. They can get a $10,000 reward. They can be bounty hunters for reporting an illegal abortion. Somehow, a system that extreme and unusual is designed not to be reviewable by the United States Supreme Court. That's what we may learn any minute if the Supreme Court accepts that argument and stands down in this case.

Back in 2016, by the way, before President Trump's three appointees, the court struck down Texas's last attempt to restrict abortions by requiring a number of things. Largely any abortion provider to have admitting privileges at local hospitals, that was ruled an undue burden to a woman's right to choose under Roe and other previous Supreme Court rulings. Of course, since then, we've entered the Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett era on the court, so we will soon learn what some of that change means.

We will go live to Washington if it happens. Meanwhile, there's lots of big news around here. One thing is that Mayor-elect Eric Adams has introduced his pick for New York City schools' chancellor. He is David Banks, founder of a network of public schools for boys called the Eagle Academies for Young Men. Here is Banks at the introduction event taking aim at the central education bureaucracy, which is housed at the Old Tweed Courthouse in Lower Manhattan that he refers to simply as Tweed.

David Banks: What's the value add for having thousands of people who work at Tweed, for having thousands of people in these high-paid positions? There needs to be a transformation and it will start at the top. We will turn the tables over.

Brian Lehrer: For those of you wondering about the recent hot button topic of Mayor de Blasio's abolition of the lower grades' gifted and talented programs.

David Banks: Don't ask me about gifting and talented today. That's not what today is about.

[laughter]

David Banks: Don't ask me about specialized high schools today. We're going to have answers for all of that.

Speaker 3: There you go, brother.

David Banks: Today is a day to celebrate what will be a rebirth of this department.

Brian Lehrer: There are indications that it may be telling that they didn't get into specialized high school admission tests or G&T programs at the introductory event. We'll talk about that among other things with WNYC and Gothamist education reporter, Jessica Gould. Hi, Jessica, as you know, we might get interrupted for the Supreme Court decision, or we may not.

Jessica Gould: All right, I'm ready for it.

Brian Lehrer: Why David Banks?

Jessica Gould: Adams and banks have known each other a long time. They have some similarities. They both grew up in Brooklyn and then their families moved to court. Actually, Banks's family members, his brother and his partner are both major advisors to Adams. Adams also talked about this at his unveiling of David Banks yesterday. He said he wanted a leader from the city.

He didn't want to do another national search. We know how that went in the past with de Blasio with a former selection bowing out at the last minute. He wanted someone with real-world locally-based experience rather than a policy monk. He also likes how Banks is focused on students of color, and particularly boys of color at his network of schools which are called the Eagle Academies.

Brian Lehrer: Tell us more about the Eagle Academies for Young Men. I guess that's the full title, Eagle Academy or Eagle Academies for Young Men that he founded. How many schools, where are they, and do they have a record of success?

Jessica Gould: Yes. There are six campuses. He launched the first one in the Bronx in 2004 and they are now in all boroughs of the city and in Newark. They were launched specifically in neighborhoods where many young men end up in the criminal justice system, is to reverse that trend. The schools seek to insulate kids from the dangers of their neighborhoods. Since school is from 8:00 to 5:00, they're commuting with the workforce as opposed to other students as much. They have a focus on traditions, rituals, brotherhood, also career training and mentorship.

The graduation rates for Black boys specifically from Eagle Academy is higher than the national average, but some of the schools are also considered lower-performing by the state metrics. Two different pieces of data there. I did talk to several boys or some of them are now young men who went to the schools and they said they felt very supported there by the teachers, built strong relationships, and felt good about their academic experiences.

Brian Lehrer: Why all-boys schools? Many women would say the last thing society needs is more male-only bastions, which historically have had the effect of leaving girls and women unequal?

Jessica Gould: I can understand that criticism. In New York, however, Black and Latino students are almost 30 percentage points lower on tests in reading and math in elementary school than white students. If you disaggregate from that boys, the boys' scores are lower than girls'. Also, the majority of college students now are girls, young women. I think for many years, there's been a concern that students of color and boys of color particularly, and Black boys especially have been facing a crisis in education.

Brian Lehrer: Does David Banks have any experience educating girls?

Jessica Gould: Yes. He was a teacher before he became a principal, but then he was principal at the current schools' chancellor Meisha Porter also worked at in the Bronx. He said that the girls there-- This was in his book, which I read. The girls were a little put off when he left them to focus on the boys, but he said the boys really needed that help. This may sound a little gendered or maybe heterocentric, but he said that he wanted to create good husbands and partners and workers and sons for those girls. Supporting them wasn't at the expense of girls, but a compliment to them.

Brian Lehrer: We're talking about David Banks being named the incoming schools' chancellor by Mayor-elect Eric Adams. We will go live to Supreme Court coverage from NPR in Washington if they hand down this intermediate decision on the Texas abortion law, intermediate in the sense that it's about whether the Supreme Court will agree to hear the merits of the case but it could set a huge precedent for other kinds of challenges that get around Supreme Court review if they decline. We will go live to that special coverage if it comes. We're still waiting to see. Meanwhile, we are with Jessica Gould, our education reporter, on David Banks being named schools' chancellor.

The clip that we played where he said, "Don't ask me about gifted and talented." G&T is seen largely as a segregation issue in the highly segregated school system the city has, but you noted in your reporting that neither Adams nor banks mentioned integration initiatives at all at this event. Do they devalue that as a path to equal outcomes compared to Mayor de Blasio's new policy or compared to desegregation advocates?

Jessica Gould: I think it's too early to say, but so far, Adams has not been as what's considered progressive on integration issues. He is for maintaining specialized high schools and creating more of them instead of dismantling them or eliminating the test to get in. He's for preserving gifted and talented, like getting rid of the test for four-year-olds. That's in contrast to a lot of the vocal integration advocates and, frankly, student activists who have been calling for changes to these policies. They did not prioritize that, they didn't mention it, as you said, in their speeches yesterday.

One thing that, I think, is worth noting about integration debates is that integration is shown to have impacts on improving achievement for students of color and really for all students, improving the educational experience, improving achievement. However, in many communities that have schools that are majority students of color or almost exclusively students of color, you don't always hear that much from those students or their parents about a desire for integration as such. They just want their kids to have better educations. I think that may be where Adams and Banks sit in this conversation.

Brian Lehrer: What's the reaction been to David Banks among various advocacy groups or interest groups like the principals or the teachers' unions?

Jessica Gould: The head of the principals union was at the event yesterday and the head of the teachers' union was not, but they did release positive statements congratulating Banks. I spoke with Michael Mulgrew, president of the teachers' union, in the days leading up to the announcement because it was an open secret that it was coming. He said that he likes David Banks. He thinks David Banks cares about kids. There are some concerns about his and Adams being more open to charter schools, which do not have the same union rules.

I think we've also learned in recent days that the Banks' administration, he's chosen a deputy who was in charge of labor negotiations under Bloomberg. That was a very contentious time, that it was very contentious between Bloomberg and the unions and specifically in the labor world. This Dan Weisberg who is going to be a deputy to Banks has some track record with the teachers' union that's controversial or at least was charged.

Brian Lehrer: Banks does not have to be confirmed by city council. Is that correct? The mayor can just make that appointment unreviewed under New York City law. It's not like when the president of the United States nominates cabinet secretaries.

Jessica Gould: Right. It is just an appointment. To your previous question about the unions, there was one other thing that I wanted to say, which was that at the speeches yesterday, at the press conference, Banks did reach out to teachers and say that he supports them, he feels that they haven't been celebrated enough, supported enough for the extremely hard work that they've done during the pandemic.

He hears them and he sees them, which was a contrast to his rhetoric towards the bureaucracy within the education department, where he said, "You guys you think you know me and you think you like me and I'm your friend, but if your job isn't affecting kids on the ground in a positive way, maybe that job shouldn't be there." That was interesting.

Brian Lehrer: WNYC education reporter, Jessica Gould. You can read her comprehensive coverage of David Banks' nomination in the event that they had yesterday at gothamist.com. Obviously, keep listening to the station for Jess's reports on the radio. Jess, thanks a lot.

Jessica Gould: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. That Supreme court ruling has come down. We're going to take a break in a minute and I'm going to tell you what it was.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Here's the Supreme Court ruling. They have ruled that Texas abortion providers can sue over the state's ban on most abortions, but the justices are allowing the law to remain in effect for now. Here's the AP's reporting on this. More than a month after hearing arguments over the law that makes abortion illegal after cardiac activity is detected in an embryo, it's around six weeks before some women even know they're pregnant. There are no exceptions for rape or incest. The law has been in place since September 1st. "The outcome today is at best only a partial victory for abortion providers," the AP says.

The same federal judge who has already once blocked the law almost certainly will be asked to do so again, but then his decision will be reviewed by the Fifth US Circuit Court of Appeals, which has twice voted to allow enforcement of the abortion ban. The case could return to the justices and so far, there have not been five votes on the nine-member court to put the law on hold while the legal fight plays out. The court's conservative majority also seems likely to roll back abortion rights in a Mississippi case that was argued last week, although that decision is not expected until the spring. That's the immediate AP dispatch on this.

In other words, it looks to me like they are allowing the abortion providers to take the case into federal court. The Texas legislators who drafted the law were trying to write it in this very strange and unusual way that would have avoided review by the Supreme Court as to whether it's constitutional. The abortion providers can go into the federal court system. Some of that copy that I just read suggests that a lower federal court tends to lean on the side of the abortion providers. The next level of appeals court up tends to not and so it will probably wind up back at the Supreme Court eventually.

That's where that stands right now. The big news really is that the federal court system can hear this case at all, and I guess the corresponding big news is that the Supreme Court will continue to let the law remain in effect while these arguments take place. That Texas abortion law is in effect. There are almost no abortions taking place legally in Texas in recent weeks. That will continue to be the case as this law moves up the chain. That's the ruling from the Supreme Court. We may get a little NPR special on it within the course of the show this morning. We'll let if that happens, but that basically is the news.

Meanwhile, there's lots of political news around here in the last day. Letitia James dropped out of the race for governor, did you hear that yet? But warned Donald Trump and the NRA to watch out as she runs for re-election as New York state attorney general with cases involving them pending. The New York City council passed a law that will allow an estimated 800,000 immigrants who are not US citizens to vote in New York City elections. Legal immigrants only, no undocumented, but still an estimated 800,000 new voters.

Eric Adams, besides naming his schools' chancellor, is said to be raising a lot of money for his inauguration. Inaugurations are privately funded. Who's giving what and what do they want. The race for city council speaker and Adam's backing for who that might be is heating up. Many questions about the lack of Latino representation on Adam's leadership team. To talk about all these things, we have Bloomberg News senior reporter covering New York City and New York state, Laura Nahmias. Hi, Laura. Welcome back to WNYC.

Laura Nahmias: Hi, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian Lehrer: Why did Letitia James end her bid for governor? I thought she was a marquee front runner along with Governor Hochul.

Laura Nahmias: I think she was seen as the most formidable challenge to Governor Hochul, but in a series of polls taken in the roughly six weeks since she entered the race, she was gaining a little bit of traction but was still behind Hochul significantly by roughly 20 points and wasn't seeming to overtake the incumbent governor. The incumbent governor also has significant fundraising advantages. She posted record fundraising numbers recently. Said she raised, I think, $10 million since she came into the office in late August, and also has all of these advantages of incumbency.

She doesn't have to go around the state in a campaign capacity in order to make herself publicly visible. She is visible just by dint of being the governor of the state of New York. People have been speculating that James, who has a very powerful position currently, maybe didn't have the fire in her belly, so to speak, to run for this position, that it's not at all certain that she would win when she already has such an important position and probably stands a good chance of winning re-election as attorney general.

Brian Lehrer: Right. She had to make a decision whether to run in the gubernatorial primary or the primary to retain her own job or current job as Attorney General. She couldn't run in both, so she had to decide fairly early in the game. Did you say her fundraising was strong or her fundraising was weak?

Laura Nahmias: We'll see the real numbers from Letitia James's campaign in early January, but people have been speculating that she has not done as well as Kathy Hochul. Historically, some of her friends and allies have said that she doesn't love the fundraising aspect of campaigning, the dialing for dollars part of the job. We don't know what her numbers will be, but Hochul's numbers were unprecedented and would pose a significant obstacle for any candidate or any challenger to overcome.

Brian Lehrer: If you like the dialing for dollars part of being an elected official, there's probably something wrong with you. Who's giving such prohibitive sums to Kathy Hochul and what do they want? Do you have a sense of that yet?

Laura Nahmias: There are a lot of rumors about that, but we won't know who the names are officially until we see the filing, I think, in mid-January. I think the fundraising limits are much higher at the state level than they are, for example, at the city level. A smaller group of people or businesses can contribute vast sums of money unlike in a city race, but we don't know and we won't know until then. She's definitely kept up a brisk pace of fundraising since taking office.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, here's a further heads up on NPR coverage of the Supreme Court Texas abortion law ruling. We're going to bring you a seven-minute block of special coverage that they're getting ready. That's going to happen in about 10 minutes from now. We will go to a little seven-minute NPR special. I guess this is only worth a seven-minute special because, to be clear, they did not rule on the Texas abortion law today. They ruled that the Supreme Court and the federal court system can review it at all, and even that is very significant considering what the Texas legislature was trying to do to evade federal scrutiny.

We will have a seven-minute special on the Supreme Court Texas abortion law ruling coming up in 10 minutes from now. Until then, we continue with Laura Nahmias, senior reporter for Bloomberg News covering New York City and New York state politics, talking so far about Letitia James dropping out of the governor's race. Do you think James dropping out makes it any more or any less likely that Mayor de Blasio will get in?

Laura Nahmias: I don't know and I can't say for certain. I think what we've seen in the past is that Mayor de Blasio is going to run for whatever he wants to regardless of whether or not he's receiving advice against it.

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] As to take a random example, his run for president which everybody thought would bomb and then did.

Laura Nahmias: Indeed. Back when I was reporting on that at Politico with my former colleague, Sally Goldenberg, we tried in vain to find out which advisors were counseling him to pursue that bid and it was extraordinarily difficult. Even some of his closest friends and longtime allies said that they didn't understand his rationale for campaigning beyond the fact that he personally loves to campaign. I don't know whether or not James's decision to bow out will have a material impact on what he intends to do or not. He seems to march to the beat of his own drummer.

Brian Lehrer: Maybe he's the guy who likes dialing for dollars. I'm not sure, but one of the other news stories today as you know, maybe our listeners don't, is that it's been revealed that the mayor was warned that it would be a conflict of interest early in his mayoralty if he continued to ask people with business interests before the city to make donations to de Blasio's public interest issues nonprofit, but he did it anyway. Why did he do it anyway?

Laura Nahmias: I think that's something that we'll have to ask him now that that has been officially confirmed, thanks to the dogged reporting of the New York Times. This has been a theme of his entire mayoralty at this point that he maybe didn't observe the bright lines that are supposed to exist in terms of fundraising and mingling the government side of politics with the campaign side, and the government side of things with his outside nonprofit.

He certainly was a relentless fundraiser for his outside interests and created multiple different outside nonprofits to pursue his national political agenda and other agenda items while he was mayor. This confirms something that people suspected had happened, but it's taken years to get the confirmation that he was officially warned by the conflicts of interest board that this was potentially inappropriate conduct.

Brian Lehrer: Another program note, Mayor de Blasio will be on next hour for his second to last Ask the Mayor call in on this show before he leaves office. We're going to be focusing on his crime and criminal justice reform record over the last eight years. I invite your calls on that, listeners. Just one other thing on de Blasio and running for governor. Who is going to give de Blasio all that money to be competitive with Hochul on campaign spending? Any indication that he stands to do well in that regard?

Laura Nahmias: I really couldn't say for sure. I think he has a stable of people who he has gone to in the past for his fundraising, but I think some of those supporters may have already donated to other candidates in the race. An important thing to note about gubernatorial primaries and state elections, in general, is that it's not a zero-sum game. A lot of the very important political players in business and in labor, and all facets of interest in state government are going to donate to multiple different candidates. Hedging their bets, so to speak, just in case. Everyone wants to pick the winner, and if you give to everyone, then you're always picking the winner.

Brian Lehrer: Last question along these lines before we turn to the new city council law, which will allow an estimated 800,000 non-citizen immigrants to vote, last thing on the governor's race in the fundraising. What about Congressman Tom Suozzi who's running as an anti-socialist centrist. If the conventional wisdom is that big money loves an anti-socialist, is he getting it as far as you know?

Laura Nahmias: In the most recent poll that came out earlier this week, it was a CIANA poll, he was polling at about 6% compared to Governor Hochul's I think I want to say around 36%. His name recognition around the state is not necessarily high. To the extent that there are substantive policy differences between him and Governor Hochul on areas that occupy that centrist space that he's trying to claim, I think that he'll elucidate those in the days and weeks to come, but it's unclear whether or not he can gain traction in that lane and overtake the space that Hochul is already occupying as a moderate Democrat.

Brian Lehrer: Listener, yet another program note. NPR has now decided that they're not going to do a special coverage block on the Supreme Court Texas abortion law ruling. We are giving you live play-by-play of behind-the-scenes editorial decisions here, and they've decided not to break in here around the bottom of the hour. What I reported already stands, but I think you've got the gist. We'll have more in the newscast at the top of the hour. I think you get the gist. If you've been listening this morning, the Supreme Court has just ruled within the last half hour that the federal court system can review the Texas abortion law, which bans almost all abortions in the state.

State legislators in Texas had written it in such a way that they hoped would evade federal court review, but they failed. The Supreme Court said, yes, the federal court system can review the Texas abortion law. That does not strike down the Texas abortion law. The Supreme Court is letting it remain in place, banning almost all abortions in Texas for now. A process will now begin or now continue in which the federal court system, the lower courts, and then presumably eventually the Supreme Court will review the law. That's the news from the Supreme Court this morning.

We continue with Laura Nahmias for another few minutes covering New York City and New York state politics for Bloomberg News. I want to turn to the city council voting to give non-citizens the right to vote for New York City offices, an estimated 800,000 people. What are the categories of immigrants who will get that right and the categories of immigrants who won't?

Laura Nahmias: I believe that that encompasses people who have green cards and the right to work in New York state, like legal residents who are not officially citizens yet. A huge number of people in New York City, as you said, 800,000 people. Non-citizens were able to vote in school board elections in New York City in the past before that abolition of the local school boards and the total makeover of the city school system.

It's just a huge number of people in New York who are a large constituency who have essentially been disenfranchised in local elections and don't really have a voice in these policies, even though they are participants in city life and consumers of city services and providers of city services and jobs and part of the economy.

Brian Lehrer: There are a number of dissenters on city council. Some say the permanent resident green card holders are one thing, the green card holders because they are permanent residents. People here simply on work visas who are also included are another thing because they're transient. Anybody who's covered by this can vote here after just 30 days of living here, even if they are transient temporary workers not intending to stay. There's a short 30 Day residency requirement and that inclusion of temporary workers, that's one thing some people don't like.

There were a fair number of Democrats on the council who voted no. Majority Leader Laurie Cumbo who's Black, I actually don't know which way she voted but she said she feared a weakening of Black representation. I'm curious if you know if that was a widespread concern among Black members of the council as they allow so many more immigrants, mostly not Black, to have voting power?

Laura Nahmias: First, I think Councilmember Cumbo voted against the legislation. I don't know how many council members shared her specific view as she articulated it, which is a very, very strong opinion. I think the sudden infusion of more than 800,000 new voters into the system to the extent that they actually vote would be a shock to the system and has the potential to reshape the political landscape, particularly at a moment when I think Black and African-American voters in New York City are experiencing a real power moment and possess a lot of power in Brooklyn and in Upper Manhattan and in the Bronx.

It seems like that's what Councilmember Cumbo is articulating here. I think that people who oppose her view say that that shouldn't be a reason to disenfranchise people just because it will have a sudden shake-up on the electorate. You can't control who votes if they're legally allowed to vote. You can't control how they vote. They have the right to the franchise. Who even knows if they would necessarily register as Democrats or Republicans or in the Working Families Party or not register at all, just that they have the right to register to vote and vote in local elections?

Brian Lehrer: Right. Of course, turnout was so low in the election this year, but that's a whole other matter. People who were not citizens or I think even if they were undocumented, used to have a certain bit of local voting power that I believe they no longer have. That was when the local school boards, 32 local school districts that New York City is divided into used to have more power than they have now. Eventually, mayoral control of the schools got implemented by vote of the state legislature, and local school boards got disempowered. Anybody with a child in the public schools, which seems like a fair standard to me, was able to vote for school board in those days regardless of immigration status or anything else.

That used to be the case. Now here's a new way that resident immigrants will be able to vote in New York City even without being citizens. One more thing before you go, Laura, there will be a new city council come January, and the race is on for speaker, the most powerful political job in the city other than mayor, I think it's accurate to say. The public does not vote on this, just the other council members do. What is Mayor-elect Eric Adams want or want to avoid in a city council speaker?

Laura Nahmias: Although he stated several months ago that he didn't intend to get involved in the selection of the speaker, Eric Adams seems to be doing what mayors before him have done. Bill de Blasio also did this. He wants to ensure in any way that he can that whoever becomes the speaker of the city council is not someone who's diametrically opposed to his agenda or various pieces of his agenda and won't stymie any legislation that he hopes to pass.

He has thrown his weight behind, according to several news reports, Francisco Moya. It's raising concerns from people who are pointing out that he said he wouldn't get involved. Some people are saying that it is anti-feminist because some of the leading candidates for Speaker Diana Ayala and Carlina Rivera are women.

Brian Lehrer: The council will be majority woman.

Laura Nahmias: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Eric Adams leadership team as it's been emerging is very male, so there's a case for a woman city council speaker. One little piece of intrigue. I don't know if you know anything about this, Laura, but New York One had a city council speaker candidates forum, like a televised debate for that role last night. Diana Ayala, who you just named and other people have named as a leading alternative to Francisco Moya who Adams apparently wants, canceled at the last minute. She was the only one not to appear. Do you know what's up with Councilmember Ayala? Anything?

Laura Nahmias: I can't say that I do. I wish I could. Definitely worth finding out what happened. Possible she had a forum fatigue. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: After all those Zoom forums in the city council racist this year, my conspiracy brain went to maybe Eric Adams told her that he's going to appoint her to something [chuckled] and she's not going to be in the city council at all. She's going to be a commissioner or deputy mayor, but I don't know, there's absolutely no evidence for that. Interesting to me that Diana Ayala considered the main alternative to who Adams reportedly wants for speaker dropped out of that only televised forum last night. Laura Nahmias reports on New York politics and New York state politics, a senior reporter for Bloomberg News. Laura, thanks a lot.

Laura Nahmias: Thank you so much for having me

 

 

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