Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone, and happy Friday, I think. I hope you're indoors. Did anyone see that unusual yellow ball in the sky the last two days? I think they call it the sun. Is that the word? The sun, though I forget because we hadn't seen it for so long. It was yellow and bright and warming quite a thing actually, but today, as you know, we're back to the deluge around here. It's actually so much rain today that we can't just joke about it and roll our eyes. We know this can actually cause some threatening situations for some people's homes and neighborhoods considering how the ground and waterways were saturated already.

We'll have reporting on this during the show today as conditions change. Don't drive if you don't have to, of course. We have this note on the subways. The transit authority or New York City Transit in particular, that part of the MTA has posted this on Twitter. It says, "There is only extremely limited subway service available because of heavy flooding caused by rainfall. Service may be suspended on certain stations," and they give their website link to check status to see if service is running at your station.

This hardly ever happens. Massive subway suspensions or outages, even at individual stations because of rain, but that's what New York City Transit is posting on Twitter on X. Now, there is only extremely limited subway service available. Definitely heads up on that if you have any plans to move around the city at all right now.

Let me say this too, if you've got the luxury of working from home today or being home at all, it's another day to honor essential workers, at least with generous tips and generous words of thanks if someone is actually out there working on your behalf, because they have to be today. The weather, again, draws our first words.

Now if Congress sometimes gets derided as a three-ring circus, the insult might be a little more literal right now than usual, considering the three headline things happening right now that many people consider clownish, even though they have very serious implications. There's the looming government shutdown, of course, which could begin on Sunday. The Republicans' impeachment inquiry into President Biden, which began yesterday, and the alleged criminal activity of New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez.

Plus this wrinkle. Apparently to help save Donald Trump from prison and help him get reelected, some Republicans have begun to defend Menendez while most of his fellow Senate Democrats are calling on him to resign. We'll explain. Here to help explain it all, and also now to talk about the sad news that just broke a little while ago. Maybe you haven't heard this yet, that California Senator Diane Feinstein has died, and about the politics of filling her seat, Washington Post senior political reporter, Aaron Blake. He also writes their political newsletter called The Five Minute Fix. Aaron, thanks for coming on on a day with all these moving parts. Welcome back to WNYC.

Aaron Blake: Hey, thanks for having me, Brian. I appreciate it.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, you can call on any of these things, but let me start with two things. First, if you have anything you want to say about the legacy of Diane Feinstein, if she was a meaningful figure to you, as I know she was to many people, feel free to call in and do a mini obit or just pay some tribute or say anything you want to say. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

I want to invite people in New Jersey who voted for Bob Menendez for Senate. Do you think he should resign because of his indictments, or should innocent until proven guilty determine his Senate fate too? 212-433-WNYC, call or text, 212-433-9692 if you're in the 201, or the 732, or the 973, or the 609, or any of the others. Did you know New Jersey has accumulated, I think it's 10 different area codes by now. If you're anyone who voted for Menendez for Senate, do you think he should resign or keep his seat while he pleads not guilty at least until the end of his term next year or until the voters throw him out next year if he runs for reelection? 212-433-WNYC.

I guess for that matter, given the stance the Republicans are taking on Menendez now, counterintuitive to support a scandalized person from the other party, but maybe politically logical, you are also invited to call if you voted against Bob Menendez for Senate. 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692.

Let me throw this in, which we just got word of. Mayor Eric Adams and Governor Kathy Hochul, and other administration officials, I guess from the city, will hold a virtual briefing at eleven o'clock to discuss the heavy rainfall and ongoing flooding in New York City. That's going to be at eleven o'clock. Of course, we will cover that. Aaron, I guess we should start with the breaking news. Diane Feinstein has died at the age of 90.

Aaron Blake: Yes, obviously a very significant moment here. This is somebody who was having health problems for many years now but was voting as recently as this week. The news really comes out of nowhere in some ways and is unsurprising in other ways. I think it's the final years of Diane Feinstein's tenure in the Senate were marked by some controversies in which she ran afoul of the progressive wing of the party, her handling of the Brett Kavanaugh hearings more recently, her absences when Democrats were trying to appoint judges. Her absence on the Judiciary Committee was a stumbling block there.

This is somebody who has been serving in the Senate for 30 years, was a groundbreaking figure as a former mayor of San Francisco who came into that role after the assassinations of the Mayor of San Francisco and Harvey Milk, and really built a legacy on issues like gun control and things like that, that I think are probably going to lead many progressives to miss her right now.

Brian Lehrer: That's right. She became mayor of San Francisco in 1978. She was president of the Board of Supervisors there, like City Council they call it, in some other cities. Under the rules of succession, she became mayor after the assassination of the mayor, George Moscone, and Supervisor Harvey Milk. In that awful incident, she was elected to the Senate and what some called the "year of the woman," 1992, following the Clarence Thomas Anita Hill hearings. She served these 30 years since, and as you say, Aaron, she was of course, recently being pressed to resign by some fellow Democrats because their Senate majority is so slim and she was often too sick to show up to vote.

I actually want to read a little bit of an obit that's out already now from one of Diane Feinstein's hometown TV stations. This is from ABC7 in San Francisco. I'll start with a quote from former California Governor Jerry Brown that's in this obit. Brown says, "Diane Feinstein is the only member of Congress, either on the Congressional side or on the Senate side, who's ever been able to get a controlled weapons ban banned, signed into law. Diane got that."

The article goes on to say that Diane Feinstein's legislative legacy also includes creating federal coordination of amber alerts, the National Child Abduction Warning System, reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act to protect women from domestic violence and sexual assault, authoring the 2022 Respect for Marriage Act to enshrine marriage equality into federal law, also revealing how the CIA was detaining and interrogating potential terrorists, sometimes torturing the suspects. That was in the Iraq War era.

The release of that report led to anti-torture legislation, the obit says. It quotes Feinstein from the time saying, "This program was morally, legally, and administratively misguided. This nation should never again engage in these tactics."

Just pointing out some of the things that Diane Feinstein did along the way in her career, which probably are not the things that people who've only started paying attention to Senate politics recently would be thinking about because there were so much criticism of her from within the Democratic Party because of looking to buddy with Republicans during those Trump-era Supreme Court nomination processes and for, frankly, refusing to resign and recent months. Right, Aaron?

Aaron Blake: Yes, it really does. I think that is going to be part of this story, obviously, that everything you laid out is going to be the bigger part of the story. I think in some ways it's a reflection of our times where the demand for people to stand up and be in line with the base on everything is so paramount for so many people.

The older lawmakers who you mentioned her being buddy-buddy during the Supreme Court hearings with some Republicans, that style of politics of being cordial with your colleagues from across the aisle is not what people in the basis of either party are really looking for right now. It's something that you see older politicians like Dianne Feinstein holding onto believing that comedy is at least part of the legislative process. I think that the latter chapter of her career is a testament to that.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call from someone remembering Dianne Feinstein. Sheldon in Livingston, New Jersey. You're on WNYC. Hi Sheldon.

Sheldon: Thank you. Hi, how are you doing? I'm just real quick because I'm shopping. One thing that most people probably have forgotten by now is that Dianne Feinstein was instrumental in keeping the cable cars running in San Francisco. When she was mayor, a lot of people said all these things are not very efficient and they're costing money and they should be stopped. She was extremely important keeping those things running. That's what I thought I'd remind people about.

Brian Lehrer: That's right. Thank you. In fact, that's in the Channel 7 San Francisco obit as well. Another quote from Jerry Brown who said, "The cable cars still running because of Dianne," so there. This also gives us a new political moment, Aaron. Her seat is up for election anyway next year. Governor Gavin Newsom, I guess, gets to appoint someone to fill it until then. Do you know who that's likely to be?

Aaron Blake: Yes. it's a really good question. We have an idea of who it might be just because the parameters have been laid out already by Gavin Newsom. He said, number one, that he will appoint a Black woman to the job. He earned some criticism for not doing that when Kamala Harris was replaced when she became vice president. He's also said that he's not going to appoint one of the candidates who are running for that job. We've got three members of Congress or the most high-profile candidates, Adam Schiff, Katie Porter, and Barbara Lee. He said he is not going to appoint one of them because he wants there to be a level playing field.

There's also been some pushback on that from Lee because she is a Black woman, so she could seemingly be appointed. If he does hold to those things, we're talking about a significant number of people in a large state who could fit that possibility. San Francisco Mayor London Breed, Secretary of State, Shirley Weber, is going to be talked about, I'm sure. Los Angeles County supervisors could be involved in this. Former Congresswoman Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass would be a contender, you would think.

We don't have a whole lot of insight into that because it's so quickly after the news drops.This is a somewhat limited universe of potential picks that could go for that job, and now it's up to Governor Newsom.

Brian Lehrer: Another Feinstein Remembrance. Ben, in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, Ben.

Ben: Hi. I grew up in the upper Haight-Ashbury in San Francisco, and Dianne lived up the street. She came down, she and my mother would've coffee. One day she came down and asked my mother to help her put fights against the University of California Medical Center, taking part of Sutro Forest in the middle of San Francisco. They had a successful battle that way. My mother went on to be in politics in San Francisco for 50 years after that including following Dianne on the Board of Supervisors. Dianne got her into politics.

At one point when Dan White resigned, my mother tried to interfere and told the mayor to go ahead and put him back in his seat. She tried to convince him, he didn't listen. Right after that, the assassination happened. I think of Dianne, I think a lot of childhood memories.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a critical text that has come in. Ben, considering the particular memories that you were just sharing, I wonder if you have a take on it. Listener writes- from the 4115 area code, so this is coming from San Francisco. Listener writes, " Di Fi was an enemy of gay folks and an ally on the Board of Supervisors with Dan White, Milk's assassin." Of course, this goes way way back in terms of her politics of that moment. "Some of us say good riddance," writes that listener. It's harsh, of course, at the very moment that we're learning that somebody has passed away. Was that a politics of that time as you recall it, given what else you've told us?

Ben: I find that overly harsh, but she did at times tend to side with downtown. That was the whole thing in Francisco is you had the city then you had downtown. She played both sides. Being anti-gay, I think is probably pretty ridiculous thing to say.

Brian Lehrer: On the downtown, another thing I've been reading this morning is that when she was mayor, some people criticized her for what they call the Manhattanozation of downtown San Francisco, meaning the construction of a lot of office towers.

Ben: Well, that's interesting. That's true. Again, with the relationship between her and my mom, my mother's name was Sue [unintelligible 00:16:05]. She was the grande dame of liberal politics in San Francisco. She was the one that was fighting that all the time. She was on the planning commission for 25 years and made sure that every building went up. There was a park in place, a public space in place, or trees planted, or something. That's when it was happening for sure.

Brian Lehrer: Ben, thank you so much for your call. One more remembering Feinstein. Elliot in Manhattanville, you're on WNYC. Hi, Elliot.

Elliot: Good morning, Brian. I'm glad that you are taking reminiscence about Senator Feinstein. She was a towering figure in the Senate and before that in San Francisco, and a very canny politician.

I have a small correction. I don't think you got this wrong, but I know some news people have. When the dual assassination occurred in 1978, she became the acting mayor. She did not become mayor until she was voted in by the Board of Supervisors. One of the members of the Board of Supervisors is Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law, which I found a little interesting.

Brian Lehrer: I didn't make that distinction. I didn't know that distinction, but I guess what I said is still technically accurate because she did become mayor. You're saying acting mayor at first of San Francisco in the rules of succession at that time.

Elliot: Then she had to be elected by the remainder of the board. That's all.

Brian Lehrer: Elliot, thank you very much. Thanks to those of you who have called in remembering Dianne Feinstein. The breaking news this morning, the Senator from California has passed away at the age of 90.

Just one last thought from you on this, Aaron before we turn the page and talk about Senator Menendez and the looming government shutdown. Whoever does get appointed to fill out the rest of Feinstein's term through next year would have a leg up in the race for a full term if they choose to run because this does replace a Democrat with a Democrat, though is there any political impact in legislative terms in DC in the short run?

Aaron Blake: Well, I don't think so. We did have a little bit of a situation when Feinstein was being absent from the Judiciary Committee, where Republicans floated the idea that they wouldn't replace her on the committee if she was gone. If Democrats wanted to do that, I think that would be difficult for them to hold the line because it would set a very difficult precedent for these kinds of situations to not replace somebody.

More broadly speaking, it will be another Democrat. The majority will be about the same in the Senate. It will be the same in the Senate. It'll just be a matter of reorganizing those committees and then moving on pretty much like it has before, just not with Senator Dianne Feinstein in that seat.

Brian Lehrer: We'll continue in a minute with Aaron Blake, Senior Political Reporter for The Washington Post. Stay with us.

[MUSIC - Marden Hill: Hijack]

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Want to, again, acknowledge the intense weather outside and the travel alerts in effect. There's this tweet from New York City Transit from a little while ago that says there is only "extremely limited subway service available." It's very rare that they put out that kind of a blanket statement. This says, "There is only extremely limited subway service available because of heavy flooding caused by rainfall." Goes on to say service may be suspended on certain stations, and gives their website to check. If you're one of those people who checks the MTA website for service, generally I guess you want to look before you go out. We know people are getting flash flood emergency alerts on your phones.

A caller is telling us, I guess just for some comic relief in the midst of all this, that alternate side of the street parking is still in effect. Caller also says the BQE near them is totally flooded with a huge line of cars literally turning back and driving the wrong way, so a report from someone's window on the BQE. We're also trying to confirm some reports on Metro North limited service, but obviously, if there's limited service on the subways it's probably true on the commuter rails as well.

Mayor Adams and Governor Hochul are planning a briefing for 11 o'clock. We will obviously, cover that when it happens. Stay tuned to us for the latest conditions in and around New York City because of the weather. We can now confirm this from Metro North. The Harlem and New Haven lines are temporarily suspended. From the wording of this, it looks like the entire lines, the Harlem and the New Haven lines temporarily suspended because of flooding caused by today's storm. Amazing to me that the Hudson line would still be running, but so far what we have is the Harlem and New Haven lines temporarily suspended on Metro North.

Let's go back to national politics with Aaron Blake, senior political reporter for The Washington Post. He also writes their politics newsletter, The 5-Minute Fix. Well, Aaron, we were talking about Dianne Feinstein, obviously, a veteran Democrat. We're going to go on to another veteran Democrat in the Senate. Bob Menendez being pressured by many in his own party to resign. It looks like a majority of Senate Democrats are saying that now, but not majority leader Chuck Schumer. Can you unpack that for us a little bit on the Democratic side first?

Aaron Blake: Dynamic, we have seen a majority of Senate Democrats come out in favor of Senator Menendez resigning, but Chuck Schumer is not one of them. I think that that is probably a reflection of their personal ties, obviously, working together closely as the senators from neighboring states. The fact that you would have the leader of Senate Democrats who is not joining these calls, at least right now, I think is pretty significant and I think gives Menendez a certain amount of cover.

A lot of people are watching closely to see how that evolves, particularly after we saw Menendez's own New Jersey colleague, Cory Booker, join the calls this week. To the extent that we see Schumer coming out, I think it'll reflect a real full-court press from Democrats to try and move beyond this.

Brian Lehrer: You have an article called The GOP's Defense of Bob Menendez and What They Ignore. Many listeners may have just heard that headline and think, "Wait, what? Republicans are defending an embattled Democratic senator, rather than taking the opportunity to pile on and help him get ousted? What Republicans, and how?"

Aaron Blake: Yes, we do live in wild times, and I think this is a crystallizing moment in them. A few Republican senators have said basically that Menendez should be allowed to serve while this case moves forward, that he hasn't been convicted of anything that you're innocent until you're proven guilty. The leaders of this, or at least the earliest members from Senate Republican Conference to say this, were Senator Tom Cotton and Senator Marco Rubio. Of course, this is not really about Bob Menendez so much as it is about the Republican presidential front-runner who is currently facing his own four indictments. The Republicans want to set a standard where you can continue to lead a party even under indictment.

Of course, many Republican presidential candidates have said they'll still support Trump even if he is convicted. I think it's a reflection of our times that the two parties have broken down like this, where Republicans are put in the position of defending a Democratic senator in certain ways because they want that to be the standard.

I would hasten to add that Democrats have made I think, a pretty valid point, which is that service in the Senate is not generally contingent upon whether you committed a crime. It involves the public trust. To the extent somebody has lost the public trust or violated that in certain ways, they say it is appropriate for that member of Congress to step aside. Of course, that hasn't proved very compelling for Bob Menendez, at least at this point.

Brian Lehrer: On the public trust, we have a board full of callers responding to my invitation to call in, especially if they have voted for Menendez in the past, to say whether the standard of innocent until proven guilty should apply to whether he stays in the Senate or whether he should resign. Now as a majority of Senate Democrats are calling on him to do. Let's start with Eric in Short Hills. You're on WNYC. Hi, Eric.

Eric: Good morning. And hello from the 14th Street Station on the Sixth Train. I'm a long-term Democratic voter, voted for Menendez. I think there's a big difference between innocent and proven guilty in a criminal trial and the privilege of serving in the Senate. I think Senator Menendez now has no credibility and no leverage, no ability to represent New Jersey's interest and effectively operate as the chair of the Foreign Relations Committee, and is only undermining the ability of the Democratic Party to push its agenda. I think he needs to go and should understand that there are things that are more important than his personal career and standing in the Senate.

Brian Lehrer: Eric, on the other thing we're covering this morning, you're at the Union Square subway station?

Eric: Actually, asked your place somewhat amazingly, actually got a train that's going uptown to work, having driven in. The gods were smiling on me today. What can I say?

Brian Lehrer: At least that train was running as of a short time ago, the number six. Kathy in Hillsborough, you're on WNYC. Hi, Kathy.

Kathy: Hi. I want to echo what Eric just said. I'll first say that my whole career was in the world of advancing women in politics and public leadership. Thinking about Dianne Feinstein and what an example of integrity she was and what a difference she made, it sort of saddens me that my senator, for whom I have voted a number of times, has embarrassed us, really. I want to underscore the idea that innocent until proven guilty is a concept for courts of law. Of course, we talk about the accused and alleged and all of that, but innocent, until proven guilty, does not apply to whether you're entitled to a United States Senate seat, and nobody is entitled to it without earning it and keeping the trust of the voters.

Brian Lehrer: Does it give you any pause that he was indicted on alleged corruption charges just a few years ago and got acquitted? Give you any pause on how to look at these charges?

Kathy: Well, I would've been happy to see him go then. There's a lot of smoke, and I believe there's some fire in there somewhere, but these are very different charges. I think just seeing those pictures of all of the gold blocks and all of that makes it feel very different and makes it feel just slimy. When we're represented by somebody as wonderful as Cory Booker, it's not a good match. We need somebody who is of that quality.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Tish in Princeton, you're on WNYC. Hi Tish. Thanks for calling in.

Tish: Oh, thanks for having me. Brian, I just want to quickly mention something. In 2017 when he was previously indicted, Menendez was not acquitted. There was a hung jury, and then subsequently the Department of Justice declined to re-bring the case.

Brian Lehrer: Right. That is a distinction worth making and a correction worth making. I stand corrected. Thank you.

Tish: Just because it wasn't that a jury looked at it and said, "Oh my God, this guy is not guilty or innocent." They were really wrestling with it. My conclusion then was that he should have just served out his term, [unintelligible 00:28:52] he wasn't convicted and gracefully left the Senate.

Another thing to point out, just not to waste time by echoing as I do the sentiments about the difference between criminal and between the standard for criminal conviction and the standard for being in the Senate, in 2018 in the primary, Menendez ran against a person with absolutely no name, less than $10,000, and she got 38% of the vote. Already then, Democrats in New Jersey were saying come on. That was when he had the full support of the State Democratic Party and all the county lines. He's not having that this time. So he's gone.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes, certainly under these circumstances even-- Well, there could be a trial and maybe there would be an actual acquittal by election day November, 2024. The voters wouldn't hold any of this against him. On the other hand, you make a very salient political point against an unknown. That unknown last time around got a pretty high percentage of the vote.

We're going to not take any more calls on Menendez because everybody's calling [laughs] with the same fake. Yes, I voted for him. Yes, he should resign. I'm sure there are people who don't have that position. If there are any people out there who voted for or against Bob Menendez for Senate in New Jersey, feel free to call up and give us that other point of view, but we have a whole board full of people saying basically what that run of calls that we just took. We're saying, voted for him, but this is bad. He should go and oh, by the way, he would lose next year. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Meanwhile here is Menendez from his short public statement this week, asserting his innocence and vowing not to resign. Listeners, note the end of the 32nd clip here, where he seems to imply that his fellow Democrats are throwing him under the bus for political expediency. Listen.

Senator Menendez: A cornerstone of the foundation of American democracy and our justice system is the principle that all people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. All people. I ask for nothing more and deserve nothing less. The court of public opinion is no substitute for our revered justice system. We cannot set aside the presumption of innocence for political expediency when the harm is irrevocable.

Brian Lehrer: Political expediency, when the harm, at least to him, is irrevocable. Our guest is Aaron Blake, Washington Post senior political reporter. You have very conservative Republicans like Senator Tom Cotton, who you quote in your article saying something very similar. No?

Aaron Blake: Yes. I think that Senator Menendez makes a point here in that is that it is not difficult setting aside personal relationships for these senators to call for Menendez to resign and perhaps even expedient. He would be replaced by a Democrat as an interim appointment from the Democratic governor, Phil Murphy, of course. The idea here is that Menendez being on the ballot next year could potentially be a liability. If he wins that primary, does that open the door to Republicans winning that seat? Maybe not.

We've seen Republicans try and fail so many times in New Jersey before, but you never know what's coming down the pike if he's going to go to trial after that primary. It's just a situation that is very complicated for Democrats and needlessly so, and better to get somebody else in there who isn't going to pose those kinds of problems. I think that it's a valid point that these Democrats are not just doing this necessarily only because they think it's the right thing to do. It's also politically expedient, but that's not mutually exclusive of the idea that they also think it's the right thing to do.

I would add, by the way, there is so much focus on the gold bars, and that's very vivid and illustrative of this indictment. I think when it comes to service in the Senate, perhaps the more significant stuff is the alleged actions on behalf of Egyptian interests. This was writing a letter to his Senate colleagues, ghostwriting it, allegedly. This was feeding information that was sensitive that he had gotten from the State Department, allegedly. When you talk about the public trust, having somebody like that in a position of power, I think that's something that kind of weighs heavily on these calls for him to resign.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, I'm glad you pointed at that because we're planning a segment for next week on exactly that. Everybody's talking about the gold bars, but there was US foreign policy toward arguably one of the worst dictatorships in the world; the government of Egypt foreign policy influence that was wielded on their behalf, allegedly because of bribes. We're going to look at the foreign policy implications in a separate segment next week.

Also, Democrats argue that this shows, A, the difference between the moral and ethical standards of the two parties, and B, that the justice system is not corrupt as the Republicans claim to defend Trump, because nevermind the politicians in Congress, it was a Democratic justice system and a Democrat-appointed prosecutor in New York, US attorney Damien Williams, who brought the charges against Menendez from his own party. When a Democrat is credibly accused of things, most of his party mates say he should resign.

So different from Republicans rallying around Trump for his multiple serious alleged offenses, and some things he's already been found to have done in courts of law like sexual abuse, and corporate fraud. There may be political expediency with respect to some of the people in Congress, but both of those things may be at play, both the ethical standard and political expediency, and with respect to the justice system since those are supposed to be non-political positions. Maybe it's a little more evidence that the justice system is not corrupt.

One theory I heard, Aaron, of why Menendez is keeping his seat is that if he's still technically in office, he can raise or spend money through his political campaign arm for his defense. If he resigns, that money spigot gets closed. Do you know that to be true about money he could or couldn't use?

Aaron Blake: Yes, there are some rules on this. The reason that it would be possible, even if there were suggestions that it would not be, is that the enforcement of campaign finance laws is so lax right now. The Federal Election Commission has been basically a non-entity for many years because it's so gridlocked. That's a viable theory, I think. Certainly, I think the idea of resigning in disgrace is probably a really big motivating factor here as is the idea that he was indicted before and it did not result in a conviction.

Certainly, I don't know how much money he's going to be able to raise, how many people are really itching to donate money to his legal defense effectively, but that is something that could come into play.

Brian Lehrer: All right. In our last few minutes, onto the government shutdown, and we were going to spend a lot more time on this and touch on the Biden impeachment inquiry hearing that was held yesterday in the house, but because of the breaking weather news and because of the breaking news about the death of Senator Diane Feinstein, everything's getting squeezed.

Let's just touch briefly on the government shutdown. The government shutdown would start Sunday with no agreement to fund the government. Where do things stand?

Aaron Blake: Basically, I think the epitome of this is that the action today that the House is taking is to vote on a continuing resolution that is much smaller than the one in the Senate. This would be a temporary extension for 30 days at much lower levels than the Senate had proposed, but this is also something that appears as though it is going to fail. The House Republicans are putting bills on the floor and holding votes on rules and things that are failing.

That is something that you don't do if you can avoid it at any cost, but it seems to be the calculation here is to look like you're trying something to see if that shifts people around. I think it's really just a reflection of how unwieldy the Republican Conference has been for House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. There just doesn't seem to be any obvious solution here or any real plan for dealing with this until we actually go over that edge this weekend.

Brian Lehrer: Let me just get one clip in here of House Minority Leader, the Brooklyn Democrat Hakeem Jeffries, yesterday with one possible path to a House majority vote to keep the government open. Hakeem Jeffries.

Hakeem Jeffries: I think we need the so-called moderate Republicans to partner with us, break away from Marjorie Taylor Green and the extremists in order to end the extreme mega Republican shutdown effort.

Brian Lehrer: Can you explain that briefly before you go? There is actually a House majority that would vote for a funding measure right now, but they can't bring it up to a vote?

Aaron Blake: Yes, I think that's been clear for a while that they could do something like that. The problem is that it would lead to a backlash in the Republican Party. It would probably lead to the end of Kevin McCarthy's speakership, which by the way may arrive soon anyways, with talks of a motion to vacate. This is the way that the rules have been set up, and this traces back to when McCarthy was elevated to speaker and had to make a number of concessions.

It basically makes him beholden to a very small number of Republicans who can stand up and insist that something passes with the majority of the Republican party's support. They can unseat him if they want to. It's a situation in which the only solution may be for these moderate Republicans to break off and join with Democrats, but getting to that point is so politically arduous that it would really be a move of last resort and something that would reverberate in many unpredictable ways.

Brian Lehrer: Aaron Blake, Washington Post senior political reporter and writer of their politics newsletter, The Five Minute Fix. Thanks so much for coming on on this busy day.

Aaron Blake: Thank you, Brian.

 

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