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Brian Lehrer: --on WNYC. Now an exit interview with the Bronx Borough President, Rubén Díaz Jr. who must leave that job next week because of term limits after 12 years in office. Although he's only 46 years old, he says he is retiring from electoral office. We'll see if it's from all of public life. Díaz has been in elected office since the late 1990s, when he was elected from the Bronx as the youngest New York State Assemblymember in a century at the age of 23.

He was prominent in the fight for justice for Amadou Diallo early on, the completely innocent Bronx man shot dead by a police officer while just entering his own building in 1999. Díaz was young to get elected, and will be young to retire. Díaz is a progressive on many issues, but he's also the son of a largely conservative City Council member Rubén Díaz Sr.

As he gets ready to leave office, the Borough President has been in the news recently as a member of Eric Adams' transition team and last week, because his brother who works for NYCHA, was stabbed in the Bronx last year, allegedly by many times repeat violent offender and gang member, who then got out on bail and attacked someone else this year. The Daily News had a story about all that last week. We will talk about crime among many other issues as we welcome for one last time as President of the Bronx, Rubén Díaz Jr. Borough President, welcome back to WNYC, and happy holidays.

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Happy holidays and thank you for being so generous in shaving two years off of my age. I'm actually 48, but I appreciate it. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Sometimes a six looks like an eight. What can I say? Let me start with this. Looking way back and moving up in time, here's something Eric Adams said about himself and you on Primary Night this year. He said, "I think about Rubén Díaz Jr. and about how we talked about as little boys one in the Bronx, one in Brooklyn, we hopped on those little dirty mattresses because we didn't have anywhere else to go in the burnt-out lots, and we just wanted to do something someday for our city." From Eric Adams.

Can you give us that story from your end? He said, "You both hopped on those dirty little mattresses because we didn't have anywhere else to go and those burnt-out lots." Where was that for you? Tell us where in the Bronx, and paint a picture for us and what about your childhood made you want to go into public service?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Well, obviously, Eric and I didn't do that together. He's a little older than I am. Let me take a dig at him. As for me, it was [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: 13 years if I'm not mistaken.

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Yes, yes. When my mom used to take Sammy and I, my brother, to Alexander's, after a certain age, you just didn't want to be in the Alexander's store and shopping with your mom. This is on Third Avenue. Right behind the stores, there was all this rubble and that's where we played, that's where other adolescent young men, in particular, played while their mother shopped up and down the strip.

Also on Southern Boulevard, where my father-- If you look at the old scene from the movie, The Fort Apache, the Bronx, when the character played by Paul Newman reaches out to grab the gentleman with the pilot hat, you'll see the structure where my father had a senior citizen center, and all of that rubble, that's where Sammy and I played where we stacked up mattresses. That was our bouncy gym. That was our playground, unfortunately.

When Eric speaks of us, that's because we've exchanged stories about our childhood and how we were driven in our whole life and by the lessons that we were taught from our parents, from his mother, my father, and my mother, to be able to better your community. I stand on the shoulders of so many individuals, Evelina Antonetty, Antonia Pantoja, people like Ramon S. Velez, Herman Badillo.

These are all folks who wanted a better future for Bronx sides and I've had the opportunity of a lifetime, the job of dreams to be the Borough President to be able to effectuate change by developing the Bronx, by creating housing, by putting in hundreds of millions of dollars into our police stations and public parks, so that families could be raised in our Borough in a much better situation than Sammy and I were.

Brian Lehrer: Well, before we even get to your years as Borough President, you got elected in the late '90s to the State Assembly. I read that you were 23, which made you the youngest elected state legislator since Theodore Roosevelt 100 years earlier. What was it like being a 23-year-old suddenly up in Albany with a lot of craggy old white guys full of their own power and smoke-filled rooms, which I think they were literally because I think they were all still allowed to smoke in those offices at that time? Do you remember any first impressions?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Yes. Two years before that I was 21 years of age I was elected a district leader, but it was quite intimidating. I was a young dad. Rubén, who turned 29 years old yesterday, was only two and a half years of age. Ryan was about a year. Hilda and I, those are our sons. Ryan was one, Rubén was two and a half. I remember being stopped by the sergeant at arms, I remember when they thought that I was an intern. In fact, my first intern was older than I was, Simon. He was about almost two years older than I was.

I remember people making fun of my age saying they had socks and ties older than me. I remember one of my colleagues, my former colleague, May God rest his soul, we became good friends, he basically was condescending about where I was studying. I was a student at LaGuardia Community College and he was Harvard Law and Yale and he was condescending about my education and the fact that he was Ivy League.

I got back at him by saying I use the speech of my graduate and when I go around graduation, I said, "Wait a minute, you Harvard and Yale, and I'm at ‎CUNY, Associate's degree and here we are sitting next to each other. Either I'm a great success, or you just a terrible failure."

Nonetheless, I was able to gain respect around what you mentioned earlier, a couple of years later when this shooting of Amadou Diallo happened, which happened in my district, that's when I cut my teeth and made my bones and was really respected by my colleagues up in Albany for the level of action that we took and being the lead on what we call the Diallo package at the time to try to reform police-community relations.

Brian Lehrer: I remember those protests that you led, and so many people were willing to go to jail to participate in that protest, with civil disobedience. Even former mayor, Ed Koch, I remember from back then, though he got sick and couldn't make it on what was supposed to be his day. How did the Amadou Diallo incident change you or changed the city or policing in your opinion?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Certainly we were already up in arms in the Bronx, talking to-- I remember that one of the chiefs in the Bronx, the Borough chiefs, was then Chief Jassi and we were telling her that there was a problem going on the streets where police would be an aggressive and particularly to Black and Brown men.

When this happened, going there, getting a telephone call from the precinct commander, this also happened in the precinct that I lived in, even though it was in precinct offices. This was like the street crimes unit and it was only two blocks away from my district office at the time, my assembly district office, going there and seeing all these bullet holes, meeting with Bobo Diallo and some of his cousins who lived with Amadou, going up to the room with my Chief of Staff. He was my Chief of Staff and he's still my Chief of Staff, Paul.

We went and saw all of these books and how well-read Diallo was. I remember getting queasy and sick to my stomach and I was the first one to ask for a federal investigation and then a couple of days later, Reverend Al Sharpton came out, and then the family came from Africa. This is what they'll be getting for me of bringing together Black and Latinos around police harassment and police abuse. Back before then, it was in silos.

You had Anthony Baez before then, and only Latinos came up for the Anthony Baez and only the Black community came out when they were victims like Eleanor Bumpurs, and actually, this is like the coming together and, I've created real relationships and friendships. To this day, Miss Diallo and I are great friends. I have wonderful, wonderful relationship with, not only with the African-American community, but the African community, created an African Advisory Council out of my office, and of course, a wonderful working relationship and a brotherhood with Reverend Al Sharpton.

Here you are, fast forward 20 some odd years later, we were able to make some gains. We were able to have some reform. It set the stage and a foundation for some of the reforms that you still see people championing today even though life is imperfect, but also having real solid relationships and bringing communities together. That all started for me during the Diallo shooting.

Brian Lehrer: Well, did things change? I mean here we are with police violence against Black and Brown people, George Floyd, and go down the list. Still a front and center issue all these years later, of course. I know the NYPD will also cite statistics about much less police use of their guns since then at all. How much of anything do you think has changed?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Well, obviously, we still have so many high-profile cases, not only in New York but in the country where still Black and Brown communities are being wrongfully targeted or there's much more of a haste for police officers to use their firearms than they are when they approach people from other communities, and so we still have a long way to go. Locally, here in the Bronx, there's no doubt that when you look at the NYPD, they participate more with the community in toy giveaways and food drives, in basketball tournaments.

While we still have a long way to go, we have developed more of a camaraderie with the police department, where we don't want the community to view all of the NYPD-- and this comes from a brother of a retired police sergeant, my sister's a police sergeant or was a police sergeant. We want to make sure that we just have more of an understanding of what police officers go through and also police officers having more of an understanding about who we are culturally and how we should not be wrongfully targeted because of our appearance, because of the way we dress, how we speak, our mannerisms, or what communities or zip codes we live in.

Brian Lehrer: Yet you were an early supporter in the primaries of Eric Adams and we know he's controversial for saying he's going to bring back a plainclothes unit that some say resembles the old street crimes unit of the late '90s or the one that Commissioner Shay and Mayor de Blasio recently disbanded. I have a feeling you're going to say, "No, it's not the same thing," and you're going to support Eric Adams but if that's the case, make that case.

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Well, you used the word controversial and that's all which vantage point? I've walked the streets with Eric Adams not only in the Bronx but throughout the city of New York and Black and Brown communities, and residents kept telling him, "We need to be safe, and we need to make sure that we get guns off the street." Look, one of the things that I was most proud of in my borough presidency is that prior to COVID the pandemic, we had eight straight years of under 100 homicides in my borough.

Just to put it in perspective when I was 17 years old and then my teen years, the year 1990, the homicide rate in the Bronx was 653. That's twice more than the entire city of New York has been. We made progress in that way but there had been a bump, and people are scared. What Eric is saying is, "How do we find a real solution to get guns off the streets, to get criminals off the streets, meanwhile, still respecting people's civil rights, and making sure that we develop confidence?"

We have to give Eric a chance being that we've seen such a spike in gun violence, in assaults and, as you mentioned in the introduction, no family seems to be immune to this, to the violence, including mine. Something has to give here, and the good thing about Eric is that he understands from both sides of the coin from policing, and also from being assaulted by the police. His heart is in the right place. His mind is in the right place. He's listening to the community, and I have total confidence that under him, we'll have a safer city without compromising the civil rights of the people who live in the city.

Brian Lehrer: Now listeners from the Bronx, your exit interview questions for outgoing borough President Rubén Díaz Jr. Welcome here at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Screeners heads up. Definite first priority for callers from the Bronx. 212-433-9692 or you can tweet a question @BrianLehrer for Rubén Díaz, who is leaving office at the end of next week after 12 years and says retiring from public life. You became Bronx borough president in 2009. Because of the various rules, term limit was 12 years in your case, not 8. What would you say are the best biggest differences, if any, for the mostly Black and Brown and largely poor people of the Bronx between 2009 and today?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Well, when I first got into office, our unemployment rate was 14+% and one of the things I wanted to do is make sure that we were no longer be number one on unemployment. If you look at the statistics, on the February before the pandemic hit, we were under 5% and that's not because people were off the rolls, Brian. It was, we created 117,000 new jobs that affected-- we made sure that people who wanted to do-- corporations and developers who wanted to do business in the Bronx, had to do business with the Bronx. As you recall, my first stance on the Armory was predicated on that and we set a tone. We also made sure that we [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: That was a redevelopment plan for the Kingsbridge Armory that you opposed because of the way businesses were going to be coming in there and without a living wage, et cetera. right?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Exactly. If you look at the minimum wage increased in the state of New York, if you look at a living wage, that whole debate really started around at Kingsbridge Armory, and how we fought that back, and we said, "Look, we will no longer going to do business in a way where only the wealthy benefited." We want to make sure that everybody came along for the ride.

Also, going back to empty lots, we identified empty lots with the EDC. We made sure that we work with them. The overwhelming majority have been developed 55,000 units of housing, everything from deep affordability to homeownership. We've done affordable homeownership, we've done obviously, housing for the homeless, housing for veterans, even housing for LGBT senior citizens. I'm proud of the fact that we've been able to put people into homes where they feel dignified.

We've done infrastructure repairs of $1.8 billion, with a B, for the Bruckner Chevrolet interchange is happening right now. Not only is that going to help the Hunts Point produce market, we're getting trucks in and out without traversing the community and spewing the pollution in the air, and reducing asthma rates, but it also puts people to work in those construction jobs. We've done the restoration of about $100 million into the restoration of Orchard Beach, which begins now this coming spring, which is highly needed for many years. It's been dilapidated.

We've done the Children's Museum, we've done the hip hop Museum, we've done the first indoor mall in our borough at the Bay Plaza mall, we invite everybody to go and shop there during this holiday season at Co-op City. I'm proud of the work that we've done in a way where it's real, where it's tangible, where people have been put to work, people have had roofs over their heads at an affordable rate and the pandemic really hit us hard because it put a hiccup in a lot of those things. Look at the [crosstalk] stations that have come--

Brian Lehrer: Before we get-- Metro-North stations that will go down to Penn Station now is that right?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Yes. That would be transformative because people can now shave off about an hour to go to work downtown or go up north to Connecticut and vice versa.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we'll take some of your phone calls for outgoing Bronx Borough President Rubén Díaz in just a second. Let me just ask you this one follow-up question first, because the job of borough president has relatively little power in our system of government. What's your biggest frustration in terms of things that haven't changed or that you tried to change more than your powers would allow?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Well, you're absolutely correct for your listeners. Once upon a time, the borough presidents were part of the Board of Estimate, and that was very powerful. Lawsuits changed that around. The Board of Estimates were part of, whatever seven, eight-- I'm sorry, eight people board and even though the title of president is a powerful one, we really made $1 out of 15 cents. I get a lot of credit for putting out the vision, making sure that we want projects, but if it was not for my colleagues in government at every level, the congressional delegations, the State Senate, the State Assembly, the city council delegations, all teaming up with me and in honing in our funding and targeting laser-focus targets in our advocacy, none of this would have been done.

Yes, while the borough presidency is not what it was, prior to the lawsuit in the late '80s, I've been fortunate enough to have a team of elected officials during my borough presidency that have come together and we've been able to actualize all of this transformation, all of this change. That really really has made the Bronx better.

Brian Lehrer: This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey Public Radio, and Trey in the Bronx. You're on WNYC with Rubén Díaz, outgoing Borough President. Hi, Trey.

Trey: Good morning, sir. Mr. Díaz.

Speaker 1: Good morning.

Trey: I've been living on the Grand Concourse. Not that great, sir. I'm listening to you, and I'm not happy with what I'm hearing.

Rubén Díaz Jr.: What's making you unhappy.

Trey: The roads on the Grand Concourse are horrible. We've had the same potholes for a decade. We've had the same potholes on Kingsbridge Road. You were just talking about that armory. That armory. We lose tires over there every day. Same potholes for a decade. I'm hearing you but I'm not hearing. The part--

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Have you ever called us?

Trey: I have called. Sir, please, let's not play this game. You guys are very hard to reach, except when it's time to get a little publicity. When we had the march, I got a friend that got his jaw broke by the NYPD from [unintelligible 00:21:52]. You're going to tell me about how they are giving out toys? Can we stop with the games? The Bronx is the love of my life, but what we go through over there is disgusting. For you to sound as if anything more than a little patchwork has been accomplished, I find that to be ludicrous.

Brian Lehrer: Borough President--

[crosstalk]

Rubén Díaz Jr.: If you look at the-- I appreciate that. The fact is that one of my biggest regrets is that I can't do it all. I don't control the Department of Transportation. The fact is that we call in the potholes. Like every other borough, there's always going to be potholes. I get that from the gentleman, from Trey. When he looks at the Grand Concourse, he can't deny all of the construction that we've done to beautify the Grand Concourse. Obviously, when we speak of police-community relations, not every cop-- I didn't say that life was perfect. I said that we made it a little bit better. There's always work that needs to happen. We always get up every single day.

with regards to like the Joyce Kilmer Park, it's a brand new park. We have the Lou Gehrig Plaza, brand New Plaza. If you look up and down the strip, we've done a lot of development. Obviously, with the infrastructure, there's going to be potholes. You can't get to all of them. If you look at us now, compared to where we were 20-30 years ago, or even before I took off as the borough president, life has been better. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Can I get to everybody in their own personal issues? Absolutely not. This is a borough of 1.5 million people, and I can't do everything for everyone.

When a police officer or anybody for that matter, is giving out food or giving out toys, or doing something for someone in the community, we should never ever trivialize that. That's an act of kindness. I would hope that Trey, with that same energy that he had in this telephone call, as new elected leaders come in, that he does everything that he can to help them better the Bronx instead of just having a conversation. I appreciate the telephone call.

Brian Lehrer: Matt from Pelham Bay are on WNYC with Rubén Díaz Jr. Hi, Matt.

Matt: Good morning, gentlemen. Good morning, Mr. BP. I'm actually Matt Cruz, the district manager CB10. I can't let a borough president not hear from his community boards, which he for so long and hard for all his tenure. On behalf of Pelham Bay, City Island, Throggs Neck, Co-op, of course, Rubén, you were there for us and you never, ever let us fight any battle alone. I can't thank you enough. When I was a kid. I wanted to be like Rubén Díaz Jr. I'm proud of you. It's been 12 years, and it's a long time in the assembly of doing so much for us in the borough.

Anybody wanted to come into the borough had to go to you first. That influence is understated. That's the power of the borough presidency, so I can't thank you enough on behalf of my community borough and of course, a beloved borough to borough. Thank you so much.

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Wow, I appreciate that. I appreciate that man, and you keep up the good fight. You're the next wave of leadership here in our borough.

Brian Lehrer: All right, you're hearing the frustration, you're hearing the love. As you know, borough President [crosstalk] the Bronx got hit harder--

Rubén Díaz Jr.: It's the Bronx.

Brian Lehrer: It's the Bronx. Right. You're going to get the love, you're going to get the criticism. The Bronx got hit harder than anywhere with the first wave of COVID. I don't have to tell you. Part of the race and class disparities we've talked about so much. Has any level of government changed anything enough for it to be different during this emerging Omicron wave?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: No, I mean, obviously, we were talking about health disparities before COVID hit us. If you recall, a number of years ago, on a micro level we were hitting the South Bronx for Legionnaires. Remember that, Brian?

Brian Lehrer: I do.

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Remember when Legionnaires-- Who were the victims there? We lost 60 lives in a span of like five-

[audio cut]

SRubén Díaz Jr.: -over six weeks. The people who lost their lives were those with respiratory ailments. It was almost like a precursor to what was going to happen with COVID. We were saying then not only should we have the water towers cleaned out and the vents cleaned out, but that we needed to have much more of a focus in healthcare disparities and how we approach marginalized communities like areas of the Bronx.

That was never done by the administration and now COVID hit. All COVID did was expose the problems that we knew we already had that were not being taken or addressed by city government, by some of the state institutions. We were hit hard. We lost about, year to date maybe 7,000 plus lives if not more. We saw tens of thousands of our family members sick. It hit our local economy and certainly, the educational system was exposed because our kids were not prepared for distance learning. If you saw, I was able to get many of the foundations to donate laptops and iPads so that we can give them out for free to our children.

We also don't have the wifi accessibility that other communities have, so that our kids could do their homework at home. One of the things that I'm proud of, we were able to get Fat Joe, for instance, to open up one of the three sneaker stores that he has, the first one of the Bronx, but this one has a separate learning center believe it or not. He's selling sneakers, the learning center has free computers, free access to wifi for the kids in the housing development across the street so that if they need to do their homework or do some research and don't have the equipment or the wifi in their home, they can go right into the store. These are the type of creative things--

Brian Lehrer: Fat Joe the hip-hop artist, for people who don't know.

SRubén Díaz Jr.: Yes. Right.

Brian Lehrer: As we run out of time-- [crosstalk] Go ahead. You can finish that answer.

SRubén Díaz Jr.: No, no, that we've been trying to get creative about how is it that we address firsthand, but we certainly have been assertive and clear with Eric Adams, with Kathy Hochul, with the new wave of elected leaders in the city council to let them know that when everyone is kicking around the word equity, that means that places like the Bronx, like East New York, like upper Manhattan, Southeast Queens, we need to address these issues with a laser-like focus so that we could be prepared especially now that we have Omicron and whatever other variants may come so that our communities could be prepared to work at home, our kids could be able to study at home, and that we can be healthy enough as a community.

One of the things that we've done is the Green Bronx Machine, shout out to my friend Steve Ritz where we teach our children how to grow and eat healthy foods in schools like PS55 so that their immune system can be strong enough, so that whenever there's some kind of virus or something, we could combat it by having a strong immune system. You all know that Eric Adams is one of those individuals that, as mayor, he's going to come in, focus on access to better foods, and focus to access to wellness in our community.

Brian Lehrer: You ready for the Bronx to become the vegan borough? Maybe not quite that, yes?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Not quite that because I'm big on the meat market in Hunts Point. We don't want to put them out of business.

Brian Lehrer: We've got two minutes left. Very briefly, you thought of running for mayor yourself and then announced you would retire from public life instead, and you became an early supporter of Eric Adams for mayor. Now you're on his transition team, which only has a few days to go before the inauguration on New Year's. What's your role on that team, and are you retiring just from running for office or retiring from the public sector altogether? Like, if Mayor Adams were to want you to be an appointed official and his administration, would you decline?

Rubén Díaz Jr.: Well, let me answer the former before the latter. My role on the team is to help identify the most qualified people so that he can have the best and the most talented administration that the mayoralty has seen. As for me, I'm going to retire from being an elected official, and I'll give you an exclusive. I'm not going into government. I've not prepared to announce where I'm going, but it will not be government.

I appreciate Eric, and I'll continue to help. As a member of the transition team, I'm sure that it'll go on even after the New Year because there's so many vacancies and positions that need to be filled. Wherever Eric Adams and his team feel like they need my counsel, I will be there for them, as well as anybody in public office. I'm going to go and be private and do the best that I can to continue to help people. I loved being [crosstalk] the borough president--

Brian Lehrer: Briefly, why that decision? There are a lot of people who say, as young as you are, but as experienced as you are, and as dedicated as you are, you still have a lot to offer in government if you were to choose that route.

Rubén Díaz Jr.: I believe so too, but what people don't realize is the rigors of being an elected official, especially running since the age of 21. I'm going to be 49 in the spring, and there's something called your family, Brian, and that's the most important thing to me. If my family is no longer feeling it, then then I'm going to make sure that I'm there for my family. That means my wife, my sons, even though they are adults already, but they're very much a part of my life, my mom, my siblings, my nieces, and nephew. It's time to just do something else, but it doesn't mean that I will not be helping, in one way, shape or form.

Look, I've had the opportunity of a lifetime. I went from jumping in dirty mattresses to be able to convert public parks and green spaces, from seeing a borough that was dumped on and that was abandoned to creating jobs and opportunity, and infrastructure. Is the Bronx perfect? Absolutely not. Were we able to do it for everyone? No. That's why you have more people running for office. That's why you will have Vanessa Gibson and others carrying the baton. I'm confident that they'll try to do or they will be doing even better. That's the way that life goes. [crosstalk] You can get criticized--

Brian Lehrer: Well, all the best to you no matter what you do next. Maybe we'll have you back on the show in that role once it emerges. Bronx Borough President, Rubén Díaz, thank you for coming on and taking questions from listeners over the years in your various roles, and good luck in whatever you do next.

Rubén Díaz Jr.: I appreciate it. Happy holidays to you and all of your listeners.

 

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