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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC and now, we'll talk about the announcement today of Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2021. I'll say off the bat that after nearly a century as a thing, the question of the relevance of Time Person of the Year anymore is a legitimate question. Maybe it doesn't matter that much what the editors of Time Magazine think like it did before the Internet and social media with so many different opinion-makers mattering to different audiences today.

Maybe it never mattered except as a source of chatter but certain people in journalism would at least have some fun and some food for thought thinking and talking about who might be named Person of the Year, kicking around various names and the implications as they contemplated the news of that year each December. Politicians would sometimes care too, and nobody more so than Donald Trump, who bragged about it openly and reportedly campaigned for it. Is anyone surprised?

This morning time named Elon Musk Person of the Year, we'll get into it in a minute. They also have an online readers poll which sometimes produces bizarrely dark results. This year, the runaway winner of the readers poll was Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro, who among other things this year claimed that COVID vaccines might make you more likely to get AIDS. They do not but Bolsonaro got about a quarter of the Time Magazine readers poll votes, way more than anyone else.

Coming in second with 9% of the vote was Donald Trump. That's the readers' poll. It winds up with controversial international heads of state quite often since they started the online readers poll in 2010.

India's Narendra Modi twice, Egypt's el-Sisi, Kim Jong-Un one year. Really? Erdoğan from Turkey, but also Julian Assange from WikiLeaks. Bernie Sanders won that readers poll one year and so did the Hong Kong democracy protesters as a group and the Korean pop music band, BTS.

For those controversial leaders, I don't know if it's their fervent supporters actually showing up earnestly in droves or maybe prankster trolls just having fun stuffing the ballot with someone many considered to be evil just to put one over on the world, I don't know, but that's the readers' poll. Now on to those who officially get named and looking back, it usually reflects a certain history, very US-world affairs oriented, for the most part. Certainly a reflection of who was powerful at the time in that context.

Time tries to make it clear that they're not naming the best person of the year. It's not the most worthy person of the year. It's not the Nobel Peace Prize. It's the person who they decide had the most impact, the most influence, for better or for worse, so they named Hitler in 1938, as they did Stalin two times just after that. Notably, they named Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979, the year he led the Iranian Revolution into power and his people took all those American hostages at the US Embassy in Tehran.

From what I've read, there was enough of a backlash against giving Khomeini any more status than he had. The Time Magazine may have ducked in 2001 after the September 11th attacks that year, because they did not name Osama Bin Laden Person of the Year despite the obvious influence that came with those attacks, they named Rudy Giuliani.

He's now had his law license suspended for his role in this year's attempted revolution but I don't think they would vote Person of the Year, but lots of good guys have been named Person of the Year. Gandhi won it in 1930, Martin Luther King in '63, the year of the March on Washington and I Have a Dream speech. The Filipino democracy leader Corazon Aquino in 1986. Scientists David Ho in '96 for his role in inventing the effective AIDS medications to name a few.

The first year of the designation in the magazine was 1927 when Charles Lindbergh was named for his first-ever solo transatlantic airplane flight that year. There have been times when groups of people have won, like American scientists in 1960, American women in 1975, and in 2006, the Time Person of the Year was you. That was the year that social media really started flourishing so they named you the person of the year.

Last year's Time Magazine Person of the Year was essential workers. In 1949, they named a man of the half-century, Winston Churchill, and in 1999, a person of the century, Albert Einstein. Those designated have been overwhelmingly male and also in '99 to that point, they finally ungendered the name from man or woman of the year to Person of the Year, and who was that person of the year for the first ungendered naming in 1999, it was Jeff Bezos.

Which I guess brings us to Elon Musk. This idea, remember, is that they are designating the person or group who has had the most influence on the world and as they put it in their announcement of Musk, potentially life off Earth too. He has rocket company, SpaceX, and things like that.

We are joined now for a few minutes by Ben Goldberger, Time Magazine Executive Editor and Editorial Director of Person of the Year to talk about the choice of Elon Musk, and why private industries influence and outrank that of any head of state in their deliberations this year. Ben, thanks so much for coming on with us. Welcome to WNYC today.

Ben Goldberger: Thanks for having me, Brian. It's great to be with you.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we have a few minutes for phone calls on this too, which could be on Elon Musk, or what public figure do you think has had a big impact on our lives? So not friends or family who've had a big impact on you personally, but someone or some group who has had a big influence on the world enough so that you would name them perhaps Person of the Year.

Maybe it's another business leader, maybe it's another political leader, maybe it's the January 6 rioters, maybe it's not someone in politics at all. Maybe it's someone in the arts. Who would your most influential person or group of the year be or what do you want to ask Ben Goldberger from Time about Elon Musk? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Ben, why Elon Musk?

Ben Goldberger: Well, actually, a lot of it's what you said earlier, Brian. I think it's important to understand that in the case of Musk, this applies across all of the history of Person of the Year, but particularly true this year is that influence is not inherently positive or negative. In some cases, and I think this is certainly apt this year, one can embody both of those, it is not an award, it is not an honor, it is certainly not our editorial assessment of the best or even most powerful person.

It is the person whose work has both dominated news to the greatest extent, and also has the potential to shape society to the largest degree. Like in the case of Musk, there are lots of reasons. One is that he may well be the single greatest private contributor to the fight against climate change of anyone on earth which is an incredibly bold statement.

Whether you like him or not, if you disagree with his methods, which many, many can, he has done something that no one else did, which is essentially prove out the market for electric vehicles. Which has had the single greatest measurable impact not just in the US, but around the world and he has brought all of the legacy automakers kicking and screaming into the era of electric vehicles.

He has also done a tremendous amount to create and promulgate the battery technology that is going to make not just electric vehicles and their widespread adoption possible, but also significantly more use of solar renewable energy broadly. He also coincides with some broader trends of which he and fellow technology magnates call them [inaudible 00:09:04] , the declining of traditional institutions, in some cases, government, as in NASA and rise of SpaceX, for the rise of individuals and chasms of wealth and opportunity.

In a year, when the richest among us got ever richer, no one got richer than Musk, so he embodies also our era of runaway inequality.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call from Judy in Port Washington, who I think is going to say the Person of the Year even though it's called that wouldn't even be a human being is that right, Judy?

Judy: Yes, I think you have to consider climate change is the biggest force acting on the world today and into the future, the greatest influence.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Do you ever consider anything like that? I know one year I think of the '90s or the '80s the computer was-- I don't know what you called it, whether it was called Person of the Year or whether it was called Thing of the Year that year, but one year, it was the computer. Judy is suggesting climate change.

Ben Goldberger: It was indeed the computer and that was in 1982. It was designated the machine of the year and turns out that Steve Jobs was quite upset that it wasn't him that year. We actually did-- Judy is right in that not only is climate of existential importance, but Time actually recognized that all the way back in 1988, when we named the endangered Earth the planet of the year.

Which was a pretty early as it goes for a media coverage clarion call to the dangers of what was then known as global warming, and we now recognize as climate change more broadly.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, that was the first year of the real public global warming conversation in 1988. You were on it in that way. Marcus in Manhattan, who's Brazilian wants to talk about the reader's poll winding up with Bolsonaro as the Person of the Year. Hi, Marcus.

Marcus: Hi, there. Good afternoon, everyone. How are you, Brian?

Brian Lehrer: Good. What do you got?

Marcus: Well, I just wanted to listen to your show, which I'm a big fan. You mentioned something about Bolsonaro. The quote that you mentioned about him, he was not the one who said that. He was reading a quote from a magazine in Brazil called Veja. With that said, and all the things that Bolsonaro has been doing for Brazil, I think he deserved the prize from Time Magazine as a Celebrity or Person of the Year because the most of the things that he's been doing in Brazil is being misrepresented. Let's put that way.

People were not telling the correct things that happened down in South America. That's my point.

Brian Lehrer: Marcus, I'm going to leave it there for time that I take your point. Let me ask Ben from Time, what do you make of Bolsonaro being the runaway winner of the Time Readers Poll for Person of the Year? Is this earnest people who really think he's doing great things like our caller, or trolls stuffing the ballot box in the spirit of the prank? What do you make of it?

Ben Goldberger: Well, it's clear from that caller that he has no shortage of fervent supporters, both within Brazil and outside of it. That's often what we see in the reader poll. Whether it is a head of state or a popstar, the winner tends to be somebody who galvanizes really intense emotional support.

Brian Lehrer: Leon in Commack. You're on WNYC. Hi, Leon.

Leanne: How are you doing, Brian? I listen to you all the time. I just wanted to say that I think the people of the year should have been the researchers that developed the COVID vaccines?

Brian Lehrer: That is a perfect setup for Ben Goldberger from Time to talk about the other category that you released today and that is Heroes of the Year, right?

Ben Goldberger: Very much so. I'm thrilled to actually release this category today. It's the first time we have ever announced the Hero of the Year. That's because we're rarely in the business in journalism of telling a wholly positive and uncomplicated story.

In this case, this is such an unalloyed positive, such a tremendous benefit to society that our recognition of Kizzmekia Corbett, Barney Graham, Katalin Karikó, and Drew Weissman, who are the four key developers of the mRNA vaccines, which are both the most efficacious and the platform that has the greatest potential for all of humanity, even beyond COVID have done truly heroic work in combination with dozens and dozens of other scientists over decades.

They have rendered a deadly pandemic something that is a truly survivable virus, and we are all in their debt.

Brian Lehrer: Here's a little pushback on Elon Musk, John in San Diego. John, you're on WNYC. Hello.

John: Thank you for taking my call. I'm a little skeptical about your guest. I don't see Elon Musk doing anything positive for the world whatsoever, certainly for his investors and certainly for himself, but the idea that electric vehicles have made an impact or that Elon Musk has made an impact with electric vehicles is to me ridiculous. They remain a minuscule part of the market and they will continue to do so. I don't own a Tesla, but I've driven in several, and the screen alone is a germ field.

Now, in the age of COVID, the screen that you have to touch constantly, et cetera, et cetera. Yes, it goes from 0-60 in no time, flat, bingo, but it's not necessary. A Tesla car is not necessary. What is necessary is a vehicle that we can all afford which is electric and Elon Musk refuses to produce this vehicle. The second vehicle that he produced is not that category. I'm really questioning your guest.

Brian Lehrer: John, I'm going to leave it there just because we're going to run out of time. You heard those various pieces of pushback, maybe the most relevant to your selection process of Person of the Year is whether the Tesla is going to be as influential as you think it's going to be if it's so unaffordable.

Ben Goldberger: There's no doubt that Musk is a polarizing choice for understandable reasons and frankly, the choice of Person of the Year often is, and it should provoke debate. In the case of Tesla, I respectfully disagree in that regardless of the accessibility of Tesla itself, what Musk has achieved with the company's success is the creation of a necessary market that didn't exist before.

There need to be and will be more affordable electric vehicles and not just cars, the majority of the American market for instance, is pickup trucks. That's beginning to happen and that is only finally and belatedly happening because of Tesla.

Brian Lehrer: I guess we could say that President Biden's recent declaration, and putting in the infrastructure bill, all this funding for electric vehicle charging stations all across the country is a nod to the fact that something was invented that he thinks can scale.

Ben Goldberger: That's right, that's exactly right.

Brian Lehrer: 30 seconds. In 2021, given the media landscape, the incredibly fractured media landscape, what do you hope that the Time Magazine Person of the Year designation even means?

Ben Goldberger: 30 seconds for that, Brian, I appreciate it. The media landscape is more fractured than it's ever been. We have more choices than ever before. I think that what we hope to achieve with Person of the Year is to use our spotlight to distill the focus on that which matters most. In the case of Musk, whatever one thinks of him as a person, it is that his energy is focused on the existential issue of our time and he is also representative in positive and negative ways of the largest stories of our time.

Brian Lehrer: Straight line from 2019 when it was Greta Thunberg to Elon Musk today, Ben Goldberger, Time Executive Editor and Editorial Director of Person of the Year. Thanks so much for coming on on this day of your release.

Ben Goldberger: Thank you, Brian. Great to be here.

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