Do You Love Where You Work?
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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Before we talk about good places to work, I'm going to cite a survey from Pew on why so many people are quitting their jobs or quietly quitting their jobs even though they're still working at them, that quiet quitting thing. Pew Center survey sites low pay, a lack of opportunities for advancement, and feeling disrespected at work as the top reasons why so many Americans have been quitting their jobs.
What about the companies where people are staying? Who's good at retention and why? Crain's New York Business has taken a stab at this, at least for New York City employers, where they've got or Crain's has an article called New York's 100 Best Places to Work in 2022. Joining us now is Crain's Senior reporter, Aaron Elstein. Hi, Aaron. Thanks for coming on. Welcome back to WNYC.
Aaron Elstein: Hello, Brian.
Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we want your stories here too. If you work at what you would call a good place to work, what makes it a good place to work? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. Aaron, give us some background first on how you went about compiling a list like this. I'm sure you couldn't survey every employer, every mom and pop shop, every little place. How do you make a 100 best places to work in New York City list?
Aaron Elstein: We actually outsource this work to another company that surveys companies. Basically, we look at your retention rates, benefits to the degree they're offered. We try to see how long employees stick around, the tenure of the people at the top. Diversity is an important factor. We don't do it. We ask somebody to do it for us and then we make some judgements when we get all the data. What was interesting this year, in years past, we ask people, "How did you stay a good place to work in a pandemic when everyone was working apart?" That wasn't the problem that people are facing this year. It was how do you keep people around when they can go somewhere else? The one thing that all of our companies, all 100 of the best places to work offered is remote work. All of them.
Brian Lehrer: That's the first thing: remote work.
Aaron Elstein: You know it doesn't obviously work in every situation but if you wanted to be on the high up on list this year, yes. Now a number of these places don't really encourage it, but they'll tolerate it because they don't want people to leave. Some places offer unlimited paid time off, some places help pay for further education, 7/10 paid for health and wellness programs. These are all nice things but remote work is important to employees.
Brian Lehrer: Wow. This flies in the face of what I think I hear from employers increasingly, certainly from the mayor, but also in the private sector from employers who say, ''In order to have a strong corporate culture, we need people seeing each other in person so they can work in teams, so they can build relationships, so they can feel connected to the company and not isolated.'' Is all that a lie because they want people back in the office for some other reason?
Aaron Elstein: I wouldn't call it a lie. I would say that there are a lot of people who thought the old system worked just fine, and liked going to the office every day and seeing their colleagues and that that was just how it's always been done. How would you do it some other way? We've been doing it another way now for quite a while. If you look at the numbers, half of Manhattan office buildings, there obviously 50% now, but half the workers have not come back.
Midtown looks a lot busier to me than it used to but I can tell the difference. I can tell the difference. I understand there are people who want us to come back. The mayor, landlords are very interested in people coming back to your offices please because if you go to work, you might order lunch from the restaurant down the street and all that good stuff. I think people are going to do what's in their best interest.
If people think it's in their best interest to work from home, they will do that until they're told, "You have to come back to the office or you're going to lose your job." That might change your opinion as to what your best interest is but the economy's been very strong. Companies are struggling to retain people and in that situation, they don't have a lot of leverage to force people back. I wonder if that's starting to change because we're starting to see some softening in the employment and economic numbers but not yet. I don't know. Not yet. That's where I-- [crosstalk]
Brian Lehrer: Since you're going down that road, why would employers want to force people back if the workers are happier with remote work? Is there a productivity reason? Is there a bottom line reason for many employers? I realize every company is different, every sector is different. I think you're describing attention here where employers want people to come back to the office more, even though they don't want to. My question is, why do the employers want it?
Aaron Elstein: I'll give you an example that I understand. I've worked in newsrooms for 25 years and there's something very useful about being next to somebody who hears you on a phone call with somebody who says, ''Oh, ask this guy that question.'' That's nothing I would've thought of by myself. That thing does happen and it certainly doesn't happen when you're working at Zoom on your own.
That's part of the reason why my employers want their people back. Also, employers have made big financial commitments for rent. Renting in New York City is not cheap and if you've signed-- Office leases tend to last around 10 years is typical. If you're on the hook for another seven years of rent, you want as many people in there as you can get, because you've sunk a lot of money into that.
Brian Lehrer: To get your money worth.
Aaron Elstein: That's part of what's going on.
Brian Lehrer: Although I would think by that reasoning, employers who are paying all that rent, if they have a workforce that wants to work from home a lot, they could save money on the next lease, get a smaller space.
Aaron Elstein: They've also saved money on corporate travel. There's more of that than there was a year ago but I think there's less of it than it was three years ago, it's just not done as much. That has certainly saved companies money. It's complicated, isn't it? This is something that we're going to be dealing with I think for quite some time, but right now, what the numbers show you is that, as employers may want their people back, but they're not racing there. Employers do not have the leverage yet to say, ''Come in or you're fired.''
Brian Lehrer: If you're just joining us, we're talking to Aaron Elstein from Crain's. They've got a list of the 100 best places to work in New York City in 2022. We'll name some names of those companies near the top of the list, and I'll admit in advance, I never heard of any of them.
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Let's take some phone calls first from people calling and saying why your place is a good place to work. 212-433-WNYC. Lucas in Center Port, you're on WNYC. Hi, Lucas.
Lucas: Hi. Hey, Brian. How are you? Last time I called you, I talked to you about Bagels. It was probably five, six years ago. It was good conversation. It had a show about Bagels, so it was nice.
Brian Lehrer: We're going from Bagels to workplace satisfaction. I love the range, your range, Lucas. [laughs]
Lucas: I's live on Long Island and I was working for an Architecture Firm in Long Island City and my wife and I were expecting our first child. I left that company to work locally to where we lived. When our child was born, I could take him to and from daycare and then work at a company more local to where we live. Now five years later, they had an opening and they're fully remote, so I actually went back to the firm and they're great. They're great company that is very accepting of young children, screaming kids in the back of a phone call, no problem. It's great to be back and that's what I really, really appreciate about.
Brian Lehrer: Family friendliness and remote work really were big factors?
Brian Lehrer: Yes, because I'm the local parent where I take care of the kids morning and evening and my wife has a very demanding job. There's pros and pros and cons each of situations but the flexibility is what really brought me back to them as well.
Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much, Lucas. My director says if it's been five years, I guess we need another segment on Bagel soon. Lucas, thanks.
Lucas: That'd be great.
Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Thanks for your call. T in Rockland County, you're on WNYC. Hi, T.
T: Hey, good morning Brian. My company's great. It's minority owned up there in Rochester, New York. After you with us for 90 days, you got your [inaudible 00:09:57] off.
Brian Lehrer: You got one, you cut out for a second. After 90 days, what?
T: You have one week off. One week after 90 day probation. If you stay with us for five years, you got a month off. I don't know, too many companies do that.
Brian Lehrer: Vacation time is a big thing. T, thank you very much. Should we keep going? Let's say, oh, here's Sam in Brooklyn, an employer who wants to talk about why he wants people back to the office. Sam, you're on WNYC. Thanks for calling.
Sam Brooklyn: Hi. You're welcome. I'm the senior partner in a small law firm that's been around since the '80s. We've always had a reputation and we've encouraged collegiality and collaboration. What I find is that there's something about being able to walk down the hall and bounce an idea off one of your colleagues or to call a meeting at lunch to discuss a case and get the input of five or six attorneys instead of being on your own.
It also encourages friendship and social relationships. I find that that's missing with remote work. My firm is actually going through a lot of changes now because partners are retiring and we're looking to hire. One of our young associates told me, "Your firm has a reputation for not encouraging remote work. If you continue to have that reputation, you will not be able to hire anyone under 50."
Brian Lehrer: Are you finding that to be true already?
Sam Brooklyn: Yes. We're having trouble finding experienced associates because everyone wants to-- As a result, we've changed our policy and we're now going to be more flexible of remote working.
Brian Lehrer: Really, really interesting story. Thank you very much. Aaron, to your earlier point, that goes to it being an industry, the law where the employers have enough clout to demand it and force change at a company like his. All right. Let's go down some of these top companies on your New York's 100 Best Places to Work in '22 List in Crain's. Number one, drum roll, is a tech company called Thought Machine. Small company only 31 employees. What's Thought Machine?
Aaron Stein: Small Company. They do financial software. They make software. They makes JP Morgan Chase process transactions and stuff like that. The way they describe it is they are on the other side of the great resignation. People were leaving the banks to go work for a startup like this. If you're want to change in your life same industry, but work for the other side of it, we're an exciting place to work.
As I recall, they were one of the places that did encourage people to come to the office because of course the banks are encouraging people to come to the office too. Yes, they were top of the list by the way. I hadn't heard of them either. One thing I would mention about them is they'd raised a lot of venture capital money in earlier this year. That always helps, doesn't it? If you're dealing in an industry with a lot of wage inflation and technology is one of those, having a few hundred million around is helpful.
Brian Lehrer: Your number two.
Aaron Stein: Another one on the list was a-- Go ahead.
Brian Lehrer: Go ahead. You can pick one on the list. Go ahead.
Aaron Stein: Oh, I was going to say Cockroach Labs, just because I like the name. They're also a software company. They're in the Flatiron District. I'm sorry. What they'll do is when you join there and they've had a lot of people join in the last couple of years, they've not-- [crosstalk]
Brian Lehrer: Let me just say for context, for listeners, that's a much bigger company. I see 368 employees.
Aaron Stein: Yes, they've grown fast. They have what they call roach mates which are sort of Sherpa to help you acclimatize to your new surroundings. There's a lot of handholding. I think a lot of the companies that did well on the list, not only had remote work, but a fair amount, as much handholding as the new employee wanted to have, they would offer you. That's just to me another science just how strong the market is for workers, not for employers.
Brian Lehrer: Interesting. Peter in Brooklyn's going to talk about his place of work, where he likes to work. Hi, Peter, you're on WNYC.
Peter: Hey, Brian. Thanks for having me on. I love my place. I'm a contract. It's really flexible. My team is amazing. It's a really great place to work. I don't want to name it. It is an audio streaming company and streaming entertainment. I will say as far as getting people back into the office, we did have a company survey go out probably about a halfway through the pandemic, maybe a good after the big bulk of it, asking folks if they wanted to come back to the office or if they wanted to work remote or hybrid.
They came back and they said, "Hey, majority of people want to be remote or see how it goes or work hybrid." Then maybe a few months later, there was a big push from Albany to a lot of CEOs in the city and saying, "We need people back in the city to help our economy." Then, suddenly, we have this company-wide meeting that says, "Oh, everybody wants to come back," and that wasn't the case. What happened to the survey? We don't know. It was a big push, it seems, from politicians to get us back into the city [unintelligible 00:15:44] for the economy-- [crosstalk]
Brian Lehrer: You love your employer, your audio production company. Thank you. Edson in Manhattan, you're on WNYC. Hi, Edson.
Edson: Hey, Brian. Thanks for take my call Before I go why I like to work with my company, I'm waiting for the segment about the Brazilian election on Sunday.
Brian Lehrer: We did one leading up to the election but further in advance, but I hear you.
Edson: Okay, cool. I work for Local [unintelligible 00:16:13] BJ over in the city and we all know that unions, they are punch bag over here in the US. Why I like to work over here is the flexibility that I have with my boss and with the company. Also, they help that we give to the members and the family. On top of that, I look at my screen from 9:00 to 5:00, but I also have a big window over here so I can see the weather changing over here. It's pretty cool. I like very much to work over here at the Local [unintelligible 00:16:50] BJ.
Brian Lehrer: Edson, thank you very much. We will keep our eye on Bolsonaro versus Lula Da Silva for sure. How about unions, unionized workplaces? Does that break out as a category on your best places to work in New York City list?
Aaron Stein: No, and it should because I agree with you. That is a distinctive work environment and we don't have at least we don't identify the places as union shops if they are. I can't really help you there.
Brian Lehrer: It's sounds like works for the union itself, but then it made me think, "Well, unionization." I'll go down some of these. In your top 10, we mentioned Thought Machine number one, place to work in New York City per these criteria, which is a tech company. Number two, Digital Remedy, a small advertising and marketing firm. Giant Machines, a consulting company with about 90 employees. Number four, Catalyst Software, another tech company with about a 100. They have great retention, only 6% turnover. You mentioned Cockroach Labs, which is number five, which by the way, if they ever develop a bug problem on their facility, you are going to write a very snarky article.
Aaron Stein: Oh, you know it.
Brian Lehrer: Ryan, LLC is number six, a corporate tax and advisory services firm.
Aaron Stein: Accounting is what they are.
Brian Lehrer: They have 2,000 employees. Accounting firm, yes, another way to say that. Only 12% turnover. RF|Binder. Am I saying that right? Another advertising firm. Index exchange, a tech firm. Number nine is January, that's the name of the company, financial tech firm. Number 10, Dynamic Yield, another tech company. These are concentrating in tech and law and advertising and marketing, accounting. These are all professional class office jobs. I don't see small stores. I don't see the MTA, public sector. How much is thrown into the bucket?
Aaron Stein: Yes. I would say broadly, the reason you're seeing this is that these kinds of firms had the resources to pay people the best in last year or two. That's definitely what-- [crosstalk]
Brian Lehrer: These are high paying sectors in general where people are the happiest. Maybe that's just common sense.
Aaron Stein: I think that's really a lot of it. These firms had resources. I am sure that there are many, many excellent places we did not capture with this data and that just whatever reason didn't get there.
Brian Lehrer: The criteria for these office jobs really interesting. How remote work jumped out at you so much. What else in the criteria. We heard the caller from Rockland who talked about, I think, it was a-- He talked about vacation time. Let me ask you to expand on that. The caller from Centerport was talking about, not just remote but family friendliness. There's that flexibility, whether you're working at home or whether you're working in the office, that also comes to play. Are these big things?
Aaron Stein: They are definitely popular things. One of the things I never used to see was unlimited time off. That's become, I wouldn't say common, but you see it now, whereas you never used to see it. I would say, by the way, that represents a savings to a company. Because if your vacation is part of your compensation, but if you have unlimited paid time off, I have been told, they don't need to expense your vacation time.
It actually saves companies money to offer you this benefit. Take that for what it's worth. You generally see the companies that are the high on the list are offering flexibility, whether that's remote, whether it's time for family time, time for real life. I remember speaking to an executive assistant at Ryan, the accounting firm, and she said, "As long as we do our jobs, we can work wherever we want."
Brian Lehrer: Interesting. Just one quick note, we only have 30 seconds, but on that fact that's in your article that a quarter of these top 100 firms as best places to work offer unlimited paid time off. You just referred to the unlimited paid time off. How does it turn out that employees don't abuse that? We have 10 seconds.
Aaron Stein: It's a good question. Some people are afraid to use it. That's the short answer. By saying it's not three weeks, four weeks, it's anytime you want-- [crosstalk]
Brian Lehrer: The pressure goes back on you to not look like a slacker.
Aaron Stein: Yes, people take less-- [inaudible 00:21:43]
Brian Lehrer: New York's 100 Best Places to Work in 2022, the article in Crain's. Senior reporter, Aaron Stein, thank you so much.
Aaron Stein: Thank you, Brian.
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