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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. In local arts and culture, Lincoln Center's David Geffen Hall will reopen this weekend, three years after it closed for renovations. The longtime home of the New York Philharmonic, originally named Philharmonic Hall, then Avery Fisher Hall for a few decades now, David Geffen Hall since 2015, will have a new look and new acoustics. To inaugurate the new David Geffen Hall, jazz trumpeter Etienne Charles with his group Creole Soul and the New York Philharmonic will debut a new piece, San Juan Hill: A New York Story. It's described as an immersive multimedia work. There'll be a pair of concerts tomorrow at 2:00 and at 8:00.

If that name, San Juan Hill, sounds familiar, it's because it was also the name of the community of mostly Black, Afro-Caribbean, and Puerto Rican residents who were displaced when the neighborhood demolished, through urban renewal, alot of their homes to build Lincoln Center. We'll talk now about the return of Lincoln Center's David Geffen Hall, what to expect this season, and the debut of Etienne Charles, San Juan Hill, with Henry Timms, president of Lincoln Center, and Shanta Thake, Lincoln Center's chief artistic officer. Hi, Henry. Hi, Shanta. Welcome to WNYC. Glad to have you with us today.

Henry Timms: Great to be [inaudible 00:01:32]

Shanta Thake: Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, I want to try, I don't know if we have anybody out there right now who's going to be close enough to this story, but I'd like to try to get a little oral history on the phones from any of you around the topic of Etienne Charles piece. That is, if any of you were among those people displaced, or if your parents or grandparents were, or anyone else you know of any story that's come down to you displaced so that Lincoln Center could be built, give us a call and tell us that story.

212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or Tweet at @BrianLehrer. Henry, let's start with the renovation. Based on the press coverage I've seen of the reopening, the concert hall is completely revamped. What reservations were there? I've been to Avery Fisher than David Geffen Hall. The acoustics always sounded good to me.

Henry Timms: The New York Philharmonic has always deserved the great instrument. There were always some question marks about the hall, and that was a lot to do with the musicians complaining they couldn't hear each other, and then some of the key sounds of a symphonic orchestra getting lost. Various efforts were made along the way to try and address this. There were various different views about how it worked out, but this time it's something really different.

We have completely rebuilt what is now Wu Tsai Theater, which is the centerpiece of this extraordinary new musical venue, which we hope is going to make so many people across New York feel more welcome. In a way what's so interesting about what's been a decades-long challenge for Lincoln Center no question is finally we managed to build this during the pandemic. At a time we couldn't perform indoors, we realized what we could do is build. This project now, after decades of twists and turns, has finally arrived and it's two years early.

Brian Lehrer: Did you do this now because of the pandemic because you figured this is a good time to take a break for that hall if you have to take one or was it a coincidence and lucky in a way?

Henry Timms: [00:03:52] I think, in a way, it was a little bit of both. The original plan was that this will be finished in 2024. That was the original construction plan. There was a moment in the summer of 2022 when we realized that it wasn't going to be a week before we were back in the offices. We knew we wouldn't be able to perform for an extended period. The decision was made then that we would try and accelerate this project and build.

We thought that was important for the arts and for Lincoln Center, of course, but we also thought it was important for New York. This project has created 6,000 jobs at a time that the city needs jobs, of course. We're especially proud that 42% of the contracts for the new David Geffen Hall are with minority and women business enterprises. This was really our effort to play our part. Lincoln Center is proud to be part of New York City, and this was our effort to play our part in getting the city back.

Brian Lehrer: Before we bring in Shanta on content since this was a COVID-era improvement project, are there any COVID-era improvements, in particular like, say, ventilation upgrades or anything like that?

Henry Timms: Yes, there's been comprehensive changes made to all of our systems, including the HVAC systems. There's a bigger idea too, Brian, which is this isn't just a beautiful new place to hear music, so I hope a beautiful place to come and exist as part of the community. What's different is the old David Geffen Hall, the one you would have visited, I think it's fair to say, was not particularly welcoming. We had these TSA-like entranceways. There wasn't much to do other than come and listen to a concert. There were lots of people in New York who would never think of themselves here at Lincoln Center.

We didn't serve as wider populations as we should. What you'll see in the new David Geffen Hall isn't just this beautiful concert hall, but all these community spaces, including in our main lobby, which is now doubled in size and does not feel at all like a TSA experience. In the heart of that lobby is a 60-foot media wall which is going to broadcast for free the contents that are upstairs down into our lobby. All New Yorkers can stop by, come have a cup of coffee, come bring a date, have a night out, bring the kids, and actually enjoy the New York Philharmonic for free in the lobby of David Geffen Hall.

Brian Lehrer: Beautiful. Talk about TSA experience. I actually have a memory of after 911, the first time I went to a concert at, I guess, what was still called Avery Fisher Hall then having my backpack searched for the first time in my experience going to a classical music concert. I thought, "We're really living in a new world now." They didn't make me take off my shoes before going into the theater, but it was TSA in terms of looking for anything dangerous. That was a 911 adaptation. Now you have COVID-era adaptations. What a world we live in.

Henry Timms: In a way, that's the world we all have to react to. I think any organization who is assuming that 2023 is going to be anything like 2018 is heading in the wrong direction. Part of our goal here throughout this period wasn't just to get through the acute stage of the pandemic, but to use this time reimagining our work, and Shanta has led that charge.

Brian Lehrer: Shanta, I see you joined Lincoln Center only a little over a year ago. What drew you to Lincoln Center and Geffen Hall in particular, since that's the focus right now? You can introduce yourself to our listeners a little bit and tell us what you did before leading up to this.

Shanta Thake: Yes, thank you, Brian. Before this, I was at the Public Theater for about two decades, so downtown New York, with a great affinity for all of the amazing cultural spaces of New York City. I think it's what draws so many of us, not just to live in New York, but to stay in New York. Lincoln Center looms large within that cultural landscape, of course. I've had the great pleasure of admiring many of the programs at Lincoln Center for those two decades that I happen to be downtown. Now, I get to be here for this victory lap of the opening of David Geffen Hall. It's amazing.

This is a long time coming. I have the pleasure of being able to work in this new space and introduce artists to this new space and their audiences. I think the possibilities are truly limitless because the space is so different. It's still a world-class concert hall, but it's really multiple spaces within one. Under the same roof, there's this beautiful grand promenade that looks over the plaza, the beautiful lobby, and media wall that Henry was speaking to, a sidewalk studio that you can see from the corner of 65th Street. There's really so many play spaces, and I feel very fortunate to be able to dream into all of them.

Brian Lehrer: Tell us about Etienne Charles. We wanted him to join this conversation, too, today, but you guys told us, "No, no, he's rehearsing-

Shanta Thake: He's busy.

Brian Lehrer: -I guess with the orchestra and his band for this premiere tomorrow." For the initiated, what can you tell us about the composition San Juan Hill that we're expecting to hear tomorrow?

Shanta Thake: I just had the pleasure of running over from the dress rehearsal that's happening right now. I think it is completely transformative work. Etienne Charles is a beautiful trumpeter, but more than that, a composer and thinker who is deeply invested in this neighborhood. He went to Juilliard. He's been a jazz Lincoln Center artist in residence. We spent a lot of time on this campus thinking through the histories that were here, learning about Thelonious Monk and the many other beautiful histories that came out of here. He came to us with this idea of wanting to do a piece about this, and my colleague, Jordana Lee, introduced him to the idea of, "Why don't we think about this for the Philharmonic?" It really feels like the stars came into alignment because soon it became clear to us that we were going to be able to really use this piece as the opening of David Geffen Hall and it feels like it holds all of these stories.

I can't wait. I hope there are callers that have lived here prior to Lincoln Center, but we have this enormous wealth of new stories of the people that lived and grew up on San Juan Hill. They're infused into this along with the music: Calypso, funk, Disco, Hip Hop, everything, that past present future of music from this era. I think it's just the perfect way to start again at David Geffen Hall.

Brian Lehrer: We do have callers on the line who remember either themselves or people they knew living in what was the San Juan Hill neighborhood of the Upper West Side but demolished so that Lincoln Center could be built. Neil in Harlem, you're on WNYC. Hi, Neil. Neil, are you there?

Johan: Hello?

Brian Lehrer: Hi. Yes, I'm sorry. Do I have your name wrong?

Johan: Yes, you do. That's okay. That's why I hesitated. My name is Johan Johnson. I'm an Episcopal priest. My grandfather was an Episcopal priest. His name was John Wesley Johnson. He had a church of 3,000 communicants mostly West Indian on 62nd Street at a church called Saint [inaudible 00:11:28] and Saint [inaudible 00:11:27] was torn down to make Lincoln Center. The lore in my family has always been about Lincoln Center coming in and imminent domain and all of that. There's a yin and yang so to speak. It's been interesting to hear this new focus on San Juan Hill which I appreciate.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. I appreciate it and sorry for getting your name mixed up. I'm not sure how that happened. Mel in Somerset, you're on WNYC. Is your name Mel?

Mel: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, good we got at least that much right. Hi.

Mel: My name's Mel Wright. I didn't live in the area but I went to the High School of Commerce. A lot of people forget to mention that the High School of Commerce was right there. They built around it at first before they tore it down. At Commerce, Dave Lambert's daughter went there of Lambert Hendrick & Ross, Monk's son went there. Coleman Hawkins youngest daughter went there, who I married later on. I remember at lunch hour in the cafeteria, they would be playing Sonny Rollins Way Out West album. I'll never forget that. We thought that was very hip. Somebody at the school would have that on the intercom system. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: No, I'm just saying those are great jazz stories and so fitting in a way that it's a jazz artist who comes to celebrate the history of San Juan Hill in this premier tomorrow. Thank you. Jovanna in Washington Heights is going to add to this oral history, I think. Hi, Jovanna.

Jovanna: Hi. I was in an apartment in San Juan Hill of an Armenian woman, the aunt of a friend. It was a very mixed neighborhood. She and her oldest sister when they were seven and five years old got separated from their parents during the Armenian genocide in Turkey. They walked their way holding hands into Russian Armenia. There they were taken in a foster home or an orphanage and they were trained as classical Armenian musicians. The mother of the friend was ready to become an opera star when they were found through the Red Cross by their parents who had immigrated to Connecticut.

They were brought to Connecticut and that ended their hope for a great career but it united them with their family. She was a seamstress but she was also a great musician. They played the oud unbelievably well and the mother of the friend sang. That house was filled with song and music. It was beautiful and very well kept and very neat. She was dispossessed when they tore the building down. I can't remember, she moved further down to Hill's Kitchen or she went up to Connecticut. I can't remember that but she had to move.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. One more. Bob in lower Westchester. Bob, we've got about 30 seconds for you for this. Hi.

Bob: My grandparents lived on West 67th. I remember as a kid looking out the back seeing the demolition going on. My dad also went to the High School of Commerce and would talk about when Lou Gehrig the other famous alumnus came back and spoke there. He also joined the National Guard before the war and at the Old 12th Regimen Armory on 62nd Street which was torn down to build the first law school building for Fordham. He got a big kick when my wife graduated from law school and went back and they have a memorial in the basement to his old unit. [inaudible 00:15:31] [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: That got taken down. I'm going to leave it there because we're running out of time. Thank you so much for your call and all those calls. Henry Timms, president of Lincoln Center, what's it like to hear these calls and to live with the legacy of people being displaced in order to create the yes wondrous thing that Lincoln Center is but to have to live with, "Did it have to go that way"?

Henry Timms: First let me just say how honored we are to hear the voices of your calls and the stories that they're telling. This is a tragic part of our history. As we started something new, David Geffen Hall, we wanted to tell those stories. We wanted to confront that history and dig into it. It's not a story we've really told as an institution before but it's so important, I think, for all institutions and us especially to look into our past in meaningful ways. It's no coincidence that the first piece you'll hear is Etienne's tribute to San Juan Hill.

If you're walking by David Geffen Hall, you'll see the entire north face of the building is the first piece of art we've commissioned, which is a piece by Nina Chanel Abney which is called San Juan Heal. In every window, there is an iconic image which pays tribute to some of the communities and some of the artists who were here before Lincoln Center and addresses to the urban renewal process that began our journey. We are really trying to start a new kind of Lincoln Center and we simply can't do that if we aren't prepared to look backwards.

Brian Lehrer: With the New York Philharmonics recording of La Valse Bolero playing a little bit in the background, we end this conversation. We're people of conscience. We're coming to terms with our history just as we will again on Monday when what used to be Columbus Day is now also Indigenous People's Day. We thank Henry Timms, president of Lincoln Center, and Shanta Thake, Lincoln Center's chief artistic officer. Congratulations on the reopening.

Shanta Thake: Thank you.

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