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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We're going to start today with some shocking numbers that I read this week in the Asbury Park Press. They're about New Jersey, but they have implications for New York as well and many other states too. With the NFL championship games coming up this weekend and then the Super Bowl, it's a good time to roll these numbers out and discuss what they mean. They're about gambling and problem gambling. Since online sports betting was legalized in New Jersey in 2018, New Jerseyans had bet more than $33 billion. The number of calls to the state's gambling hotline has more than tripled during that time to 27,000 last year.

A record study estimates that about 13% of New Jerseyans meet requirements for having a gambling problem. The article says the Rutgers study finds the rate of problem gambling in New Jersey is about three times the national average. Let's talk about what this means for the state and the country as well with one of the sources quoted by the Asbury Park Press, Felicia Grondin, executive director of the Council on Compulsive Gambling. Spoiler alert, she blames a lot of the problems on excessive sportsbook advertising. Felicia, thanks for coming on the show. Welcome to WNYC.

Felicia Grondin: Thank you so much for having me. We're truly grateful that you're paying attention to this issue, and we're grateful for the opportunity to be with you today.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, help us report this story. This is not to make a prohibitionist argument, but it is to get some stories out in the open about the side effects of mass-market online sports betting and some thoughts about what should be done maybe as a tweak to the existing law or enforcement of some things that aren't being enforced. Have you or has someone you know developed a gambling problem during this five-year social experiment in New Jersey, or do you know how to avoid it and have certain practices that you use when you sometimes place bets? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer.

New York where this is much newer may be heading in the same direction with the first year of online sports betting way exceeding expectations about how much people are gambling. Anyone may call, but we have those numbers for New Jersey. Tell us a story and help us report this story or ask a question of Felicia Grondin, executive director of the Council on Compulsive Gambling. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. Felicia, give everybody a little background. What does your Council on Compulsive Gambling do?

Felicia Grondin: The Council on Compulsive Gambling was established in 1982. We are a private nonprofit organization primarily funded by the state of New Jersey. We provide information and referral services for people that are dealing with a gambling problem, or even if they just want to learn more about it. We have a variety of resources on our website at 800gambler.org to learn about problem gambling. We provide a lot of information. We go out into the community, we talk about gambling and gambling problem, we talk about responsible gambling practices and we also refer people to treatment.

If they are interested in seeing a counselor, we have a network of treatment providers, as well as referring people to Gamblers Anonymous and Gam-Anon meetings for families that are dealing with a gambling issue. Also going back to treatment, when we refer people to treatment, if individuals aren't able to pay for treatment or if their insurance doesn't cover it, we do have funding available to help people to get the help that they need. We're about public awareness, making the public aware of this issue, educating the public, and helping people that are struggling with this addiction.

Brian Lehrer: Do you work in multiple states?

Felicia Grondin: No. Our territory is New Jersey. We were one of the very first councils created in the country, actually.

Brian Lehrer: How do you see those numbers on problem gambling in New Jersey reflected in human terms? Who's developing these problems and how as they present to your group?

Felicia Grondin: I think that gambling and problem gambling is affecting everyone from seniors to children, believe it or not, to use, I should say. It's become more of a problem in recent years given the access of online gambling, which started in New Jersey back in 2013. Then in 2018, it was increased even further as a result of sportsbook, which was legalized. It's very accessible at this point in time. People can simply pick up their phones and place the bet and lose tens of thousands of dollars within minutes. It's very accessible.

Then the other part of the increasing gambling problem is that gambling is much more socially acceptable. Years ago when I grew up, gambling was restricted to lotteries and it was in Nevada and in Atlantic City. Now it's everywhere. You can gamble very, very easily from the comfort of your home and no one really even knows that you're gambling, which makes it very difficult to identify how many people have a gambling problem because it's been called a hidden addiction. I can go into that later. I don't want to go on too long, but if people don't recognize gambling as an addiction. How could I put this? It's very difficult to identify specifically the number of people given this hidden addiction.

Brian Lehrer: Right, because I guess if you have a drinking problem, you can't really hide that. If you're walking around drunk a lot of the time, it's obvious to your friends and family members who you're spending a lot of time with. If you're just going on your phone and using one of the sportsbooks a lot and losing a lot of money, unless they're [chuckles] really in your bank account with you, they don't necessarily know, right?

Felicia Grondin: Yes. A lot of people that have a problem are apprehensive to seek help, number one, because it is an addiction, yes. Number two, a lot of people are embarrassed that they have this addiction. This problem doesn't only affect the person obviously, it affects their families. Kids' college funds are wiped out, people lose homes. It affects entire families. It's hidden because of the points that you had made, that it's not visible, it doesn't show any physical signs, but it's also less predominant or known about because people are embarrassed to report that and they're embarrassed to seek help because of the effects that it has on those around them.

Brian Lehrer: I guess the most surprising stat from the Rutgers study as published in the Asbury Park Press is that the rate of problem gambling, the rate in New Jersey is about three times the national average. If online sports betting is now legal in many states, and I don't know the exact number of states, maybe you do, but this is a common thing around the country now, so if this is legal in many states, why would New Jerseyans be expressing problem gambling more than people elsewhere?

Felicia Grondin: I think a couple of reasons. I think that reverting back to it being more socially acceptable, legalized gambling in New Jersey has been around since the late '70s. It's much more socially acceptable here in the state. On top of that, I think that we have a variety of gambling opportunities as you had mentioned, online sportsbooks, brick-and-mortar casinos, there's a lot of apps.

We have a very high concentration of people here in the state of New Jersey. I think that contributes to the predominance of a gambling problem in the State of New Jersey. I also think that we may be a little bit more focused on the issue. Maybe not as focused as I would like for us to be, but I think that given the length of time that legalized gambling has been here in the State of New Jersey, we are more focused on problem gambling than perhaps other states are.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, so that is to say there might be more reporting and self-reporting of problem gambling than in other states that are not as mature yet in the market, this market being five years old, and I guess also with the history of Atlantic City before that?

Felicia Grondin: Yes, that's absolutely correct. That's my perspective on that. I think it just has a lot to do that it's been around here a bit longer. Also, I guess I'm paying some kudos to our council here in the state of New Jersey, we've been around to spread the word as to the issue of problem gambling and finding resources whereas a lot of states are new. They're just coming about. For those reasons, I think that that's the answer to your question. I provide that answer to your question.

Brian Lehrer: As we go here with Felicia Grondin, executive director of the Council on Compulsive Gambling, we'll talk about the media aspects, including how gambling is woven into even the play-by-play sometimes of sporting events, and certainly the chatter about sports in the media. We'll play an example of part of a commercial to exemplify one of the issues here, but first, let's take a phone call or two. John in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. Hi, John.

John: Hi. How are you?

Brian Lehrer: Good.

John: Let me just take you out of speaker.

Brian Lehrer: Sure. Thank you.

John: I know a great number of gamblers. I used to actually gamble myself for a living as a poker player, but that is 12 years plus ago. I have a friend in Jersey City, probably bets about $20,000 every weekend on two games. Then another friend who I knew from the poker circuit who lost not only his house, he owned a restaurant, he had to sell the restaurant. He pretty much lost everything because the last time I saw him, he was outside a casino sleeping in his car. I just find that the access from online makes it much easier for people with these addictions to become addicted to the gambling. You bet online, you simply get on your phone and tap in a bet.

There is another person that I knew who would literally bet each quarter of a game. He would bet over, under. He would bet any possibility. While he was a Wall Street hedge funder, he probably went through the same $20,000 plus every weekend, sometimes up, sometimes down. They are truly addicted just like they would be to alcohol, to drugs, or whatever, and so the fact that people are allowed to advertise and promote it without any recourse is dangerous.

Do I have an answer? I absolutely don't. Do I think it's wrong? I do. I just don't have an answer. I simply want to let you know that these people do exist. As the woman was explaining that people have lost their homes, they've lost their bank accounts, she's not kidding. I know people who have literally lost businesses and homes from this. It's not something that can be chuckled at.

Brian Lehrer: John, thank you for weighing in. I really appreciate it. One of the things John mentioned, Felicia, was how they place many kinds of debts. One of the things that people who do this or people who hear the ads or see the ads know is that there are many ways to place bets. You can place bets before a game, you can play bets during a game, which must be a whole different kind of temptation. As this event that you're watching is unfolding, something changes in the balance between the two teams, and you go, "Oh, maybe I'm going to go in again and bet on that."

They advertise these parlays, I'm going to play an example of that in a second, where you make multiple bets at the same time. Of course, you're much more likely to lose if you're betting on three teams and they all have to win in order for you to win. Then the house really wins a higher percentage of the time, I think. Can you pick up on that point that John was making about the ubiquity of types of bets that people can place now?

Felicia Grondin: They certainly are plentiful. One can be watching a game, as you had mentioned, and the announcer is identifying opportunities to gamble, that can entice people to gamble without question. It's like, "Oh, let me give that a try. Let me see if I can make something. It might be fun." That's usually how it starts out when it comes to gambling or when it comes to problem gambling.

There's so many opportunities, and it's constantly in your face. People are constantly being enticed whether it be through what we just spoke of, of communications during a particular game, or just in general with commercials, whether it be on a streaming platform or regular television or radio networks and streaming networks. People are just constantly being enticed. There's so many apps that are out there, so many opportunities to gamble, and so much encouragement to do so. It's glamorized. They don't talk to you about the fact that there's a possibility that you could develop an addiction to this behavior, to this practice. The abundance is just unbelievable.

Just last year, the Council on Compulsive Gambling of New Jersey, we conducted our own prevalence study. We surveyed a little over a thousand individuals. 28% of the respondents of that survey named easy access through gambling apps as a strong influence on their betting-related activities. Almost 30% said that that influenced them. You couple that with all the encouragement that you hear on television and radio, and you're much more tempted to place a bet than you would be if you weren't bombarded with all these opportunities and encouragement to play. Then they offer free bets and lines of credit, and it just makes it all the "sweeter" to the listener-

Brian Lehrer: To get them going.

Felicia Grondin: -and people are more apt to place a bet. Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Let's hear another story. Hannah in Forest Hills, and I think this is going to take us into the media aspect. Hi, Hannah.

Hannah: Hi, Brian. First time, long time. I'm ashamed to say this, but I actually was hired as a costume designer for I think one or two sports betting commercials. They very consciously make everything very aspirational, very wholesome-seeming. A lot of thought is put into the look and aesthetic of everything. It's very predatory. I don't know if it's-

Brian Lehrer: What is the look?

Hannah: -professionally dangerous to be saying that.

Brian Lehrer: If your job was costume designer for some of these commercials, what kind of clothing were they having people wearing that was supposed to express what to the viewer?

Hannah: Some of the keywords I was given are like Manhattan, money, young, wealthy millennial, athleisure. These are supposed to be people with comfortable lifestyles, but very cool, very confident in themselves. Wealthy upper class, but cool. Not necessarily the type of people who may actually be spending their time on these apps. There's also a social aspect. It's always groups of people having fun. The instructions are always, I don't know, aspirational of the favorite keyword. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: You threw this in as an aside, but not the kind of people who you would think of or who would be commonly on these apps, you mean it's not showing wealthier people to try to appeal to wealthier people, it's showing wealthier people to try to appeal to non-wealthy people who think they might get wealthy this way?

Hannah: Correct. I believe so, at least. There's always this undertone when we're in meetings in dealing with this of we want to make it appear that these wealthy and successful people use these apps so that everyone else will also want to use these apps because they aspire to that lifestyle, I guess.

Brian Lehrer: To be like them.

Hannah: I don't know that it's because it'll make them money, but as, "Oh, this is a fun, leisure activity that these type of people partake in, so maybe you can be part of this group too if you use this app."

Brian Lehrer: Hannah, thank you so much. Felicia Grondin, executive director of the Council on Compulsive Gambling, that was such a revealing call, lifting the veil a little bit on the thinking that goes into some of the sportsbook commercials. What were you thinking as you were hearing that call?

Felicia Grondin: Actually, I was thinking about reverting back to the prevalence study that the council conducted last year, one of the issues that we've identified recently is we're going through a very challenging economic time. Prices have gone up, people are struggling economically. One of the questions that we contained in our prevalence study was that people are looking to gambling as a source of income actually. One in three people in their 20s look to gambling as a source of income and one in four people in their 30s look to gambling as a source of income, not considering the risk for it.

Brian Lehrer: How many people actually succeed? People probably have their theories like if you bet the favorite all the time, you're going to come out ahead or whatever it is. If that percentage of people that you cited are gambling in an attempt to make money, how many are actually making money?

Felicia Grondin: That is really difficult to say. It's difficult to say. We have information that you had referred to earlier with regards to the amount of money wagered, but it's difficult to say how many people have lost, how many people have gained. We only have wager information and revenue figures. It's challenging. It's very, very challenging. Back to the last caller's point, people, they're looking to make money. A lot of this marketing is not focused on wealthy people. It's focused on people that need income, that need that money which is very concerning. It's very risky behavior, but the commercials don't make it appear as though it is. They make it appear as though it's a fun thing.

Brian Lehrer: Again, for listeners just joining us, the reason we're having this conversation today with the NFL championship games coming up Sunday, the Super Bowl a couple of weeks after that, huge betting days in America is not to look down our noses at betting whatsoever, it's not to make a prohibitionist argument either, but it is to look with clear eyes at the effects of five years of legalized online sports betting in New Jersey now with the Rutgers study coming out that estimates that about 13% of New Jerseyans meet requirements for having a gambling problem as reported this week in the Asbury Park Press.

Let me play part of an ad as an example of some of what we're talking about. Actually, before I play the ad, why don't you make your basic argument which is what you were cited in the Asbury Park Press article emphasizing, and that is that excessive advertising contributes mightily to this problem. Can you talk about how you see the--? Legal product, they should probably be allowed to advertise. Where does it become too much?

Felicia Grondin: I can tell you that there was an article in Barron's Magazine about a year and a half ago. It spoke about incessant gambling. It didn't speak about incessant gambling advertising, but it spoke about the cost of gambling television ads. They cited that about $292 million was spent on gambling television ads in 2020. Then one year later, the amount of money that was spent on gambling television ads increased to $725 million. That is from $292 million to $725 million within one year. That amount increased two and a half times. That's one aspect of my argument. The other issue is that when we look at the amount of the sports handle, that is, the amount of money wagered, it increased.

Looking at those same years, in 2020, it was at about $6 billion a year. One year later, we were at $10.9 billion a year. A significant increase in both advertising money spent, as well as the amount of sports betting dollars wagered. You can see a correlation there between those two aspects. I would like to note that, you had mentioned this earlier, the council is neutral on gambling. We are neither for or opposed to gambling, but we are here to help people with a gambling problem, whether to help them to prevent having a gambling problem, as well as to help people that are already there. I just wanted to inform the audience about that.

Brian Lehrer: Right. This isn't about making any kind of moral argument. Let me put part of an ad as an example. We grabbed this off the sports radio station WFAN this morning> Nothing against WFAN, nothing against this host who are not even in a name because it's not about him. I know on that station, one of their primary hosts is a recovered or recovering compulsive gambler who always puts out very positive messages about this.

They even gave him a special prime Saturday morning slot to do an anti-problem gambling show. Nothing against them. This is just an example of what's out there everywhere. It's a 60-second spot. We'll pick it up halfway through. The host had just read 30 seconds of copy promoting the sportsbook. Listen to the kind of promotion in the copy this begins with, and then the rapid-fire disclaimer that it's hard to absorb near the end.

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Voice-over: If you already have FanDuel, you start building your no-sweat same-game parlay today. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NFL. 21 and over and physically present in New York. Three plus legs. Minimum $1 bet required. Refund issues now withdrawable. Free bets expire seven days after receipt. Max bonus, $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Help with a gambling problem, 408-778-HOPENY or text HOPENY-467-369.

Brian Lehrer: All right, there's part of a spot and I really played that [chuckles] to draw attention to the disclaimer. Is that required by law?

Felicia Grondin: In New Jersey, it is, yes. I assume that it probably is in New York as well. That is definitely required by law. Every gambling license is required to provide information on our number is 1-800-GAMBLER, which by the way is going to be going national. It's going to be used as a national gambling helpline number. Yes, that is required by law.

Brian Lehrer: That was a live read. The human being reading it could only go so fast-

Felicia Grondin: [chuckles] Yes.

Brian Lehrer: -but he went as fast as he could. There are other produced spots. I was really looking for one of these this morning, but I couldn't find one online that I know I've heard where it's speeded up as if a parody. Blah, blah, blah 1-800-GAMBLER, blah, blah, blah. You can't even take it in no less write down who to contact if you have a gambling problem. Is there a fix for that?

Felicia Grondin: I think that we need to be on top of that more, not the council, so to speak, although we do keep an eye on those things. It's challenging, quite honestly, to keep on top of it because there are so many different live betting platforms. It's very challenging to keep on top of that. There are certain requirements with regard to font size. As far as speed of delivery, I don't believe there is a requirement with regard to the speed of verbal delivery. It's very difficult to keep on top of that given the multitude of gambling platforms that are out there and so much advertising, so many different forms of advertising.

Brian Lehrer: Nicholas in Bedford–Stuyvesant, you're on WNYC. Hi, Nicholas.

Nicholas: Good afternoon, good morning. The question I was raising is this betting thing is interesting. When I listen to Bloomberg in the morning and they talk about what's going to happen in the stock market and try to predict, they call about people placing bets, or even these big companies or hedge funds, they place bets every time. That influences the distinction between winning or losing in the stock market, but they have to depend upon using knowledge that's statistically important.

The people who bet sports, particularly we're talking about FanDuel, they haven't done that, but I can't understand why you can't bet that and win regularly. The casinos and FanDuel and all these betting sites, there's $10 billion out there being spent. They got to have a line that is balanced so they have money on both sides. They don't gamble. They just say statistically. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Right. They obviously make more money than they pay out. That's a question, Felicia, that a lot of people would probably have. If people do this on Wall Street and a lot of people on Wall Street make money because they're really studying these companies before they place the bets, can people do that if they're really studying the players and the teams?

Felicia Grondin: I suppose people could do that on their own. It's just that that information isn't collected and provided to educate the gambler. People, by the way, do develop a gambling problem from day trading. About 18% of our callers have an issue with day trading. Gambling crosses over to that. Now, there are state regulations indicating a certain percentage that the house is able to keep, but it's gambling. There aren't any concrete parameters that are available, especially that a gambling operator is going to provide. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: When you said there are parameters about how much the house can keep, how does that work for online sports betting?

Felicia Grondin: I'm not certain as to the specific parameters. I don't have the statute in front of me, but I'm sure that there are specifics associated with the amount that the house is able to keep a certain percentage. The fact of the matter is, although people can develop a gambling problem in purchasing stocks, it's very different than just gambling. It's a totally different animal. It might be a very similar behavior, but the platform itself is very, very different.

Brian Lehrer: Michelle.

Felicia Grondin: I don't have those-- Go ahead. Sorry.

Brian Lehrer: You don't have the exact numbers. I'll go to the next caller then. Michelle in Freehold, you're on WNYC. Hi, Michelle.

Michelle: Hi. Can you hear me, Brian?

Brian Lehrer: Yes, we have you.

Michelle: Thank you so much for doing this segment. I just wanted to say that the number of people affected in New Jersey is staggering and very upsetting, but it's actually a lot more than that because gambling addiction like other addictions is really a family disease, as they say, and it does affect more than just the gambler. It affects the whole family. It affects their children.

It affects their spouses, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. All of these people can be directly affected by the financial stress put on the family, the emotional burden, and stress. It's a lot for a lot of people. The numbers that you cited are staggering, but I feel like it's at least 10 times more people that are directly seriously affected by gambling addiction in New Jersey.

Brian Lehrer: If you know anybody who's gone through this, a family or whoever, was there a successful way out that you want to talk about as well, or a preventive measure against getting in that deep?

Michelle: I guess the best thing would be to try to not give them access to money. Don't lend money if you're trying to help them. Money is not going to help. Getting them out of the debt is not going to help it stop. It needs to stop before they can start digging out of that debt and they need help.

Brian Lehrer: Michelle, thank you very much. I have seen also on TV, and you could tell me, Felicia, if you think that these should be more ubiquitous or more required by the state or anything, there are public service announcements against problem betting. One of the things consistent with what the caller just said is never borrow money to place a bet.

Felicia Grondin: Two issues. One is there are ways to be responsible with gambling. In the world of problem gambling, it's called responsible gambling practices. There are many ways to set limits. One of the ways is setting limits, whether it be time or finances. You want to gamble and enjoy yourself, have some fun, set some limits for yourself. Back to your question, actually, could you please repeat your question? [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: I was just making that observation really. Let me ask you a different question, which is if excessive advertising is a core issue for you and your organization, should advertising be restricted in some way by the state of New Jersey, which is where you are, or nationally with respect to legal sports betting online?

Felicia Grondin: Yes. How could I overlook that part of your question? [chuckles] This is primarily what we are seeking to achieve. There needs to be public service announcements, definitely, warning the public that gambling can create an addiction and can be addictive over time. That really needs to be done. It's done with drugs, it's been done with alcohol, it should be done with gambling. Definite public service announcements. With regards to advertising restrictions, definitely, there should definitely be advertising restrictions, much like cigarettes and alcohol.

Again, years ago when I was a kid, there were cigarette commercials on television. You don't see any cigarette commercials today. There should be limits on advertising without question. In addition to that, I also believe that there should be a warning label on gambling sites or at brick-and-mortar casinos warning people that gambling can become addictive. These are all things that should be incorporated into our gambling landscape because, without them, problem gambling is just going to continue to increase and increase and increase. Without any governmental support or any restrictions of this nature, it's bound to present a big problem for our country.

Brian Lehrer: One more call. Tim in Freehold, you're on WNYC. Hi, Tim.

Tim: Hi. Yes, I'd like to give a shout-out to my neighbor in Freehold who was on just a few minutes ago. I want to say that I've observed a sad social dimension to the gambling situation. For years, I've seen not busloads but free buses from our towns to Atlantic City. It's nice to give people that option. It happens in a town where very often there's no senior center. You have folks who might otherwise socialize with each other and have more meaningful lives, and instead, this is just something that they do, which could lead to addiction.

As a professional, I went to a lot of conventions in Atlantic City. When I had a little time off, I'd walk through the casino floors and I would feel sad because I would look and say, "You know what? There's an awful lot of these people who don't look happy." I'm trying not to be judgy, but they don't really look like they should be here. I've observed that over 40 years of life working and living here in New Jersey.

Brian Lehrer: Tim, thank you for your call. As we run out of time, Felicia, let's make this the last question or at least the last topic, and that is where do the casinos fit into it? We were starting to have this discussion on my team as we were planning this segment and weren't quite sure whether it's part of the same discussion or not. Of course, in New York right now where there's a public policy conversation about how many new casinos to locate in the state and where they should go if so, is this the same conversation, or is this a different conversation?

Because no matter what we may think about Atlantic City or Las Vegas or new casinos opening in New York, you have to affirmatively go there in person. If that's what somebody wants to do with their leisure time, that's up to them. Not that there isn't problem gambling associated with casinos, there obviously is, but it's the online ease of so many more people being able to do it from wherever they are on their phones.

With these numbers going up so high, number of problem gamblers in New Jersey as reported in the Asbury Park Press article that triggered this segment, are we talking about the same thing, or are we talking about something at a whole other level that's in its own category when we talk about online sports betting versus casinos?

Felicia Grondin: I believe that definitely, it's in its own category by virtue of the fact, as to what you had stated, that it's so accessible. You have to go to a casino in order to gamble. You don't have to go anywhere to gamble online. Interestingly enough, when I took a look at our helpline calls, about 33% of our helpline calls are associated with gambling that occurs in a casino. It's not an abundant, a great amount. Significant enough that gambling takes place in the casinos, but the real concern is the online gambling component because it's just so accessible. It's just so easy to play and so easy to lose.

Brian Lehrer: You want to give out that phone number that you mentioned before one more time. I guess this is at least for people in New Jersey so they have it in-- You can go real slow unlike that ad we played.

Felicia Grondin: Absolutely. No problem. Our telephone number, our helpline number is 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, I believe it's 1-800-HOPENEWYORK or NY. If you call 1-800-GAMBLER in New Jersey, we will be able to provide you with information and referral, and a listening ear. We have wonderful helpline staff that have a great listening ear, very comforting, compassionate, and they can help to answer your questions about problem gambling for yourself or for a loved one.

They could provide you with information as to how to get help in order to turn your situation around and also to prevent problem gambling. I encourage you to call us at 1-800-GAMBLER or visit our website at 800gambler.org. You'll find a wealth of information and we would be so happy to help you and/or your families.

Brian Lehrer: That's great. I think I have a correction to that New York number. I have it as 877-8-HOPENY.

Felicia Grondin: My apologies. So sorry.

Brian Lehrer: 877-8-HOPENY. We thank Felicia Grondin, executive director of the Council on Compulsive Gambling in New Jersey. Thank you for coming on with us.

Felicia Grondin: Thank you so much for having me. We truly, truly appreciate it.

Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We turn the page and much more to come.

 

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