[music]

Brian: It's Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC, good morning, everyone. We're going to have a very busy show today. There are some breaking New York City news this morning on a few fronts and since the mayor joins us on Fridays, we will get to ask him about these things right out of the gate. That's in an hour, the eleven o'clock hour for Mayor de Blasio, just so you know there's breaking news on the New York City public school front, and the NYPD front, the department of investigation has released a report on how the police department has handled the protests this year and the mayor is already saying something needs to change.

We're going to ask him about that if you're a regular listener, you know I've been asking the mayor repeatedly about kettling and multiple protests, video shown, violent arrests in multiple protests this year and he keeps saying, there's an independent review. Wait until the department of investigation report comes out. Well, this morning it is out so we will get into detail on that with the mayor, people call for Commissioner Shay to be fired all the time in the last few months, advocates and some of the people who are running to succeed, Mayor de Blasio we will see if he says something needs to change.

Is that going to include the police commissioner? And that's just one story. The department, I should say the education story is this as reported by, by Gothamist just a short time ago. "In a massive shakeup of how the city handles admissions to its middle and high schools. The department of education will remove all selective screens for middle schools for the 2021, 2022 academic year, the next school year, and eliminate district priority for high schools altogether."

These are considered good for desegregation and integration as well as COVID adaptations so we get into those things, big stories that I know will affect a lot of you parents listening out there right now, and teachers and school administrators listening out there right now so we will get into all of that and more with the mayor who also has been saying in recent days that there's very likely to be a broader shutdown in New York City because of COVID right after Christmas.

One other thing coming up on the show today, right after the mayor at 11:35 parents of young kids listen up, we have a really special guest following the mayor, Santa Claus. We figured that since most of you can't bring your kids to see Santa in-person this year at a store or at the mall, we would bring Santa here and your kids can call them up. Parents get your kids ready to call-in with you at 11:35 this morning, right after Ask The Mayor and Santa will be here, no sitting on his lap.

I think we don't do that anymore anyway, but some of your kids can get on the phone and tell Santa what they want for Christmas and you can listen in just in case it gives you any ideas. Parents that's 11:35 this morning until noon, right after Ask The Mayor. Meanwhile, the Trump administration may be ending, but national politics is not, with COVID relief of various kinds, expiring for millions of Americans in just a few days, Congress still hasn't agreed on a new package though. Leaders say they are very close.

The lead New York Times headline on this morning says, "Biden faces challenge as Congress drops state aid to secure a stimulus." Other challenges for the president-elect include a big new Russian hack that got revealed this week. They may have failed at hacking our democracy this time around, but they're still hacking our government. Revelations keep coming about Hunter Biden that are leading President Trump to consider a special counsel like Robert Mueller was as a parting gift to the president-elect, you might call it.

If Joe Biden really hopes to depolarize the country, which he says is one of his main goals, how can his administration do that while still criticizing Republicans when they disagree? Biden's campaign manager, Jen O'Malley Dillon made conservative media headlines this week when in the context of defending compromise to a progressive group, she said this, "In the primary people would mock Biden like, 'You think you can work with Republicans?"'

She went on to say, "I'm not saying they're not a bunch of effers. Mitch McConnell is terrible." Of course, they cleaned up effers for the radio. That may be a defensive compromise, but is it a path to unity? With us now Associated Press White House correspondent and NBC News, political analyst, Jonathan Lemire. Hi, Jonathan. Welcome back to WNYC.

Jonathan: Brian, good morning. Always great to be here.

Brian: Here's the president-elect speaking earlier this month about the need for state and local government relief in the stimulus bill.

Joe Biden: States and cities are already facing large, large budget shortfalls this year. Again, through no fault of their own. They've already laid off more than a million workers. Even more teachers, firefighters, cops will lose their jobs unless federal government steps up now.

Brian: Saying the same thing yesterday in even more pointed terms, New York City, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She said, "You want to know, who's actually trying to defund the police? Republicans, because Republicans are trying to block state and local funding so that those budgets dry up." Jonathan Lemire red States are facing COVID budget shocks too, why is state and local aid being cut out of the emerging pill.

Jonathan: The politics of this from the beginning, Brian have been Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, of course, a Republican and many on his side of the aisle have suggested that the local and state aid would be a blue state bailout and in their estimation and that they felt that it would be unfairly headed towards blue cities, Democratic control States. The big cities that we saw, particularly the early months of the pandemic really suffer, which, of course, includes New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, others, and that the politics of that has still not totally changed.

McConnell has had a hard time selling that to his conference, even though the stats are clear, there's, there's been 1.3 million state local jobs lost since March and there is great concern particularly on Biden's incoming team, that those losses could grow that any economic recovery that we may see in the early part of 2021 after Biden takes office, as the vaccine begins to disseminate as life slowly re-emerges to its pre-pandemic form that that recovery would be hampered by the fact that there could be severe cuts in these municipal governments, state governments, big-city governments resulting in waves of layoffs.

Brian: You have a story today about President Trump clashing with Republican Congress too, about how much of a direct payment stimulus check Americans will get, why are they disagreeing?

Jonathan: The president as he is often want to do, tends to wait in at the 11th hour and threatened to blow things up. Yes, I believe it was in the Washington Post versus reported today, and matched by others the president wanted a $2,000 direct payment, the stimulus payment to Americans, as opposed to the $600 or so, which is where the current negotiations were. It had to be talked out of it by eight saying that if this last-minute monkey wrench was thrown into the toxic could blow them upright ahead of the deadline.

The president has backed off that. We've seen him tweet a little bit saying that a deal should get done. There are still a lot of second-guessing around the president who felt that he should have been far more out there during the summer and early fall pushing for a big COVID deal, pushing for more direct relief, pushing for the stimulus thinking that would have helped him during his campaign, but that was something that the Republicans in the Senate simply did not want that to go along so it's never happened.

We are, again, Congress, as the cliché goes, only works when it's up against the deadline, it is up against one now in order to get some deal done before these benefits run out and even if that requires setting aside the local and state aid into a different package of much over the protests of President-elect Biden.

Brian: We've talked about some of the issues that divide the Democrats and Republicans, and even the Republicans and the White House, but I don't want to gloss over the fact that there are still many things that are in the bill expected to pass some time, maybe today or sometime before Monday. Can you give us the highlights?

Jonathan: There certainly will be. There will be. First of all, as we just discussed, there will be indeed the direct payments to people, to average American. It'll be $600 direct payments for American families and children that now to be clear. That's only about half of what the stimulus checks were done last spring, but it still will help. There's also an extension of unemployment programs, which was something that both sides of the aisle did come around.

They were going to sunset and now they will be able to move forward. Republicans have fought against this local and state aid, but there should be other measures that will help prop up the economy here and we see that. We’ve seen the numbers even this past week with the unemployment claims continuing to increase. I think there is a sense and this is something that both the president-elect seem as deeply mindful of. That though, there is suddenly hope on the horizon, the form of this vaccine.

As we hear time and again, it'll be months, months, and months before most Americans are able to obtain it. Until then, we're going to have a very difficult time and that, of course, first and foremost being in terms of the health crisis we’re seeing, the staggering numbers of death each and every day, but that also refers to the economy.

That’s what they're focused on here, and that's why they've been prodding to grow this bill, while House Speaker Pelosi has been pushing for some time to finally get them to the table while Republicans to come to an agreement one that has several times over recent weeks looked like it was going to fall apart for good. Even now as is Congress way, we had a day or so ago a deal with eminent, but yet we're still not quite there.

Brian: Listeners, our phones are open and topics on the table for AP White House correspondent Jonathan Lemire, the COVID relief bill talks. Jan O'Malley Dillon's comments about Republicans being effers despite need to respond to establish his path to unity. The Russian hacking revelations, and should there be a special counsel to continue the federal investigation into Hunter Biden's taxes once his father takes office? Or anything else you always wanted to ask Jonathan Lemire after seeing him on television, but you never had him over for dinner. 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280, or you can tweet a question at Brian Lehrer.

Jonathan, if Joe Biden really hopes to depolarize the country, which, of course, he says is one of goals, how can his administration do that while still criticizing Republicans when they disagree because he still will need to do that? Because he wants to be able to do both, fight for policies he believes in while changing the divide-and-conquer tone that Trump very consciously set that's been so destructive.

There's this story that Biden's campaign manager Jen O’Malley Dillion this week when in the context of defending compromise said this, “In the primary people would mock Biden like you think you can work with Republicans. I'm not saying they're not a bunch of effers, Mitch McConnell is terrible.” That may be one way to defend compromise Jonathan to a liberal group I gather she was addressing, but is it a path to unity?

Jonathan: Well, first, I'll note that once the pandemic leaves, I'm a delightful dinner guest and I'm always into a home-cooked meal. Consider that me accepting the invitation. Yes, what we have here with the Republicans as someone put it over the last couple of days. The Republicans growing outrage or foe outrage about a coarse language is a sign that perhaps nature is healing. Let's remember, we have a president who has course into the language repeatedly over his four years in office saying things from the stump behind the Oval Office desk or on Twitter that would be unimaginable for one of his predecessors to say in public presence. They curse in private all the time.

It is rare to have the language of Donald Trump has used while in office, there’s certainly a degree of hypocrisy, but to your larger point, yes, this does show the bid that the Biden team is in and I think we should set aside this comment here and then perhaps even whether this assessment is accurate or not. Biden ran unlike basically any of his Democratic rivals during the primaries as someone who would want to unite the country. Talk again about reaching across the aisle, talk about all the bypass relationships he had. He's a creature of the Senate. He spent decades there. He talks a lot about the legislation he worked with the past with his Republican colleagues, the strong friendships he had.

Occasionally, got in trouble for it because the country is so polarized right now. It is so partisan. The fuels of the fires of this bitter rivalry between Republicans and the Democrats, of course, stoked by President Trump more than anyone else. There are a lot of Democrats who feel like they don't want to be compromising right now. They said, “What is compromised gotten us to the past.” “When have Republicans ever compromised with us?” We’re seeing now in the subject we can return to members of the Republican Party not even recognizing President-elect Biden's victory. There’s a sense of like, "Why should we have to always be the adult in the room," Democrats say.

That said, there has to be at least some effort to work together. There's some thought in Washington that McConnell and Biden who have a relationship might be willing to get some deals together that maybe Biden is a Democrat who's uniquely situated to get something done. There's sort of infrastructure package maybe being the first big piece that the Biden Administration rolls out early next year. It is going to be, of course, extremely challenging for the President-elect to do so. Why?

Again, a lot rides on the outcome of those runoff races in Georgia early next month where somehow the Democrats were able to move into the majority in the Senate and control all three, White House, House, and Senate. That would make Biden's path a lot easier.

Brian: Do you have any reason to believe with your experience as a correspondent in Washington that Biden's friendship or long relationship with Mitch McConnell would affect anything? What’s the cliché if you want a friend in Washington get a dog? If McConnell's commitment is to increasing Republican power at every turn and his path to that during the Obama administration was to obstruct everything Obama proposed even if they might have had some basis for an agreement on parts of it. Why would McConnell act any differently with Joe Biden?

Jonathan: The skepticism is well-founded here, Brian. Yes, Senate Majority Leader McConnell is perhaps the most political character in Washington we've seen in a while. He is indeed solely focused on maintaining his power, meaning the Senate majority, which he’s used of course for these re help reshape the federal Judiciary. We know, of course, what happened with the last two, with Supreme Court picks refusing to bring Merrick Garland to hearings or a vote back in 2016, but then rushing through Amy Coney Barrett.

This time around right before election day, he’s creatively political, frankly, a label that he would embrace. I think that any cooperation McConnell offers would be done out of a calculation that it would be in self-interest for him and the Republicans, that if he feels that voters demand something to be done, therefore, he needs to work with the Biden White House, he will. Otherwise, he won't if he feels that it's something that could jeopardize his hold on the Senate.

Brian: Just one other thing on Jen O'Malley Dillon. She was campaign manager in the campaign obviously. Does she have a role in the Biden Administration?

Jonathan: She does. She will be coming in as a Deputy White House Chief of Staff right under Ron Klain, who is Biden's longtime aide who is the Chief of Staff. Yes, Jen O’Malley Dillon will be playing an important role in the Biden Administration. Certainly, look, people, I've talked to in Biden world wish she had said that differently, but it’s also they're pointing to the idea. This is simply a distraction. This is the question of Republicans about to lose power who spent four years claiming they didn't see the tweets that Donald Trump issued. The friend that tends to undo the very Democratic process, but now suddenly being grievously offended by this tweet.

Brian: Well, the Republican hypocrisy there is not debatable. If Biden wants to change something, he could consider firing her or rebuking her publicly like he means it and saying, “Mitch McConnell is looking out for his constituents like Democrats look out for ours. I'm going to respect that and work to make deals in everyone's interest not call our colleagues effers.” Might we hear something like that?

Jonathan: We haven't yet. I don't know that we will. I think that there's a sense in Biden world that they want this to just-- They feel this will be a story that will blow over in a couple of days, we'll be on to something else. Yes, certainly, Joe Biden is one far more than frankly other Democrats and even members of his own staff, believe that there is an opportunity here to work across the aisle. Perhaps he would say something, but I haven't heard that he will at this point and there's been no indication that he will offer any sort of apology. Certainly, not fire someone who is a key member of his inner circle. John in Princeton, you're on WNYC. Hi, John.

John: Hi. The budget stuff is fascinating we could get into that. This morning, there's a spat between the White House and Pfizer. Pfizer says we have hundreds of thousands of doses of vaccine in storage. We’re waiting for the White House to tell us where to send it. The White House I think, I'd be curious to know says, "No, no, it's your fault, you're screwing up." This seems to me just total typical Trumpian incompetence and I'd love to have some light shed on it because it seems crazy. I think DeSantis in Florida has gotten into this too blaming Pfizer instead of usual, "Not our fault"

Brian: Are you reporting on this? Are you familiar with it?

Jonathan: We have certainly had been. What we're seeing here is some of this is what has been the Trump administration's pattern since the very first day's pandemic where they differ a lot of it to the States. The State saying, "We need this number of--" back then ventilators now, vaccine doses. Yes, there has certainly been some friction between-- There's a backstory here, friction between the White House and Pfizer. Where, Pfizer was not a full-fledged participant in operation warp speed, that they're using federal resources to help for distribution, but not for the development.

There were some bristling where the White House tried to really claim credit for that, for all parts of the vaccine. Pfizer saying no that's not the case. The Pfizer CEO has more than once publicly said that he would not be-- That the company would not give in to political pressure. It would not rush vaccine development over the spring, summer, and fall. Even though the White House was hammering them to try to get it out before election day thinking that would boost Trump's re-election chances. We know that the head of Pfizer also skipped the operation warp speed summit that was held at the White House a week or so ago.

Again, not wanting to be politicized. Yes, right now, we are seeing this playback out in public back and forth about whether or not there are enough vaccines that are available to be distributed now. White House saying one thing Pfizer another, but let's also remember, the White House had the option to purchase more of the drugs from Pfizer, over the summer. They bought 100 million doses.

Pfizer said we could do up to 500 million more, or at least another 100 or 200 million more now, the White House declined to do that, initially. Therefore, now has come around with the vaccine out there approved and seemingly effective and wanted to buy more. Pfizer have been unable to do that right off the bat because it already made commitments to other countries that it was also selling, of course, the vaccine of other places around the world. There is as much as they are working to develop in as much doses as they can, there's only so fast you can go. Therefore, the White House has been frustrated with not being able to get their hands on more of these doses as quickly as they'd like.

Brian: Ashley in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with Jonathan Lemire. Hi, Ashley.

Ashley: Hi, Brian. Hi, Jonathan. I'm curious, I haven't heard a lot of discourse about student loan relief in this new stimulus talk. I know that there was this month extension that was offered, but for those of us who are mired in massive debt, as so many of my generation are, I'm really curious why that discussion has gone away. I'm a teacher, veteran teacher, and having to deal with this on top of working with kids every day. It seems like in my [unintelligible 00:23:01] this is a huge deal, and people have just stopped talking about it. I can go ahead and take my answer off the air.

Brian: Thank you very much. Student loan relief in this bill, yes or no.

Jonathan: It is. We obviously don't know the final text. Nothing's done until it's done. Yes, it is part of the package that is going to be approved an extension of student loan relief, I believe to April. At least a few more months there. Let's also remember, of course, this won't be the last stimulus more than likely that once the Biden team is in the White House and the new Congress convenes next month. There certainly could be more, another stimulus package in the months ahead. Extension, at least to some of these benefits. The economic pain of this pandemic is not going away anytime soon.

Brian: Here's a question you'll like via Twitter. Twitter going as [unintelligible 00:23:51]. "Here's a fangirl question for Jonathan Lemire. I appreciate and admire the clarity of your reporting my question, "How do you keep your sanity in a time when you're required to report on so many contradictions and you're up close to so much monumental craziness?"

Jonathan: Well, I do appreciate the question there. It's part of the job. This is what we do. It's certainly been a tumultuous four years and the pace has not slowed, and I don't think that it will even when President Trump does leave office. First of all, he's not going "Quietly into the night," even as his future plans remain a little bit uncertain. Also, the income administration, which I'll still be covering, I'll be shifting to covering the Biden White House, they have an extraordinary number of challenges on their plate, and perhaps there will be less news made by Twitter.

Perhaps there will be fewer 6:00 AM pronouncements from the White House or off the cuff remarks that move the markets or result in widespread staffing or policy changes, but this is still the administration that's going to come in, perhaps more publicly disciplined, but faces an extraordinary hill to climb with the pandemic, the health crisis, the economic crisis, the Biden team is preparing a sweeping number of efforts to undo a lot of what President Trump did. Of course, I think we'll also see a lot of efforts to reach across, not just the aisle to Republicans, but across the seas, to reassure nervous allies and repair alliances that have been strained by these last four years.

Brian: Yarrow in Union, New Jersey, you're on WNYC with Jonathan Lemire. Hello, Yarrow.

Yarrow: Hi, Brian. Hi, Jonathan. I was just wondering in the Coronavirus relief negotiations, are there discussions or where are they in terms of the expiration of the paid leave the FFCRA, because that seems really important to me for working families to get paid sick days to be able to get some pay if they need to stay home to care for their kids because this pandemic is not over.

Brian: Jonathan, you got that one?

Jonathan: Yes, I did. Sorry. The call got cut off briefly on my end. Certainly, I believe that is also part of what's being discussed. I believe there'll be some sort of paid leave in the package here, but Brian, if there was more to it than that, I didn't hear all the questions [crosstalk]

Brian: Yes. Well, that's the question. How could paid leave be left to expire in the current state that we're still in this country? You're telling us that you think that will be in the bill? Can you describe that a little bit? What's paid leave has there been in the previous COVID relief bills that you expect to continue?

Jonathan: Certainly, there was some, there was paid leave bills, unions, and workers rights and consumer advocacy groups had pushed for that during this past year. I don't have all the figures in front of me, but that was part of the package. We are seeing now that that is something that they're efforting to try to get back in this measure as well. I guess as I'm talking about here, I'm seeing that some of that is still being negotiated. That is something that is less certain to be included in this time around.

I saw that Senator Gillibrand, who has been out front on this saying that this paid leave is critical and it needs to continue. There are benefits indeed that are going to expire at the end of this year. I believe this is going to be some of the last-minute negotiations to try to grant at least some an extension.

Brian: Here's a little more detail on that, that my producer just put in front of me. And I think this is an under-publicized benefit that some people could get. This is from the US Department of Labor site. It says, "The families first coronavirus response act, requires certain employers to provide employees with paid sick leave or expanded family and medical leave, for specified reasons related to COVID-19.

The Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division administers and enforces the new laws paid leave requirements, these provisions will apply from the effective date, meaning earlier in the year when that law passed through December 31st, 2020." That's of course, why the caller asked the question because this is one of those many provisions that will expire at the end of this month.

I frankly wonder if there are a lot of workers who didn't know about this, who might not be getting COVID leave. I actually know somebody personally, who just had a COVID scare and wound up getting a negative test result. That person supervisors said, I don't think we have a COVID sick leave policy, so you're going to have to use your vacation time and quarantine for two weeks. Then that person checked with their supervisor and came back and said, "No, our company does have a two-week of COVID time policy, and for all I know that's mandated by federal law." This one story from somebody I happen to know is an indication of the confusion and probably under dissemination of this.

Jonathan: No question about that. Certainly, an illuminating example, and I think that's been true from the beginning of this, not just on this benefit, but so much, this happened so fast back in the spring. Congress has have been all over the place with these various stimulus deals and some of it has been left to the state, some of it being handled at the federal level. I'm not surprised at all that there's confusion in the various workplaces as to what employees may be entitled.

Brian: Judy in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with Jonathan Lemire AP White House correspondent. Hi, Judy.

Judy: Hi, Brian. Hi, Jonathan. I have a question about the unemployment extension. I've been following the negotiations pretty closely and I still can't figure out what they're talking about. The question is the unemployment extension, is that adding additional weeks on top of the standard 26, or is it just paying off more money every week until your 26 weeks runs out?

Jonathan: Unemployment benefits are certainly being extended. This is one of the measures that seems to have broad support on both sides of the aisle. I believe some of the details are still being worked out in terms of exactly how, in terms of whether it's the dilemma you just explained, but this is something that we're not going to know entirely until it's done, which is not done yet. There's certainly real hope that it will be today or tomorrow, but there does seem to be some consensus here that unemployment benefits will be done. Really, again, there are a few sticking points remaining, but that does not appear to be one of them.

Brian: Judy, thank you. When Mayor Bill de Blasio, comes on the show later, I'm going to ask him the implications for New York City of the emerging relief bill apparently not including state and local aid. I'm getting a question from a listener that says, "Why would Pelosi agree to this bill without state and federal aid? She should have stood steadfastly for this, against the so called Skinny Bill for the last several months under the- "

Now I'm going to elaborate on the caller's question. "-under the premise, that if you agree to the things that everybody agrees on, meaning the things we've been talking about, unemployment extension, and a stimulus check of some kind, and a few other things, then you've lost your power to negotiate for the things that the other side doesn't want, like state and federal aid." Is Pelosi giving up her power here, or is this unnecessary loss, because she couldn't make the senate do something they wouldn't do and they had to take care of people's basic needs here before these bills expire at the end of the year?

Jonathan: I think that's largely the correct framing, that they are seeing the crisis that the country is in right now, one that would only grow so much worse if indeed these benefits all expire. They felt like there was an act they weren't going to let perfect be the enemy of the good here. There's also a belief that they wanted to get some deal now because there will indeed be a-- They'll revisit. There'll be a different calculation and calculus next year, once the new administration is in the White House and once we know the outcome of the Georgia Senate races.

There's a sense here from both sides, that some sort of deal had to get done now and then one can be revisited. Now, it could be revisited in very wildly different shapes next year depending on who controls the Senate, but the senses of the House speaker that there needed to be some sort of extension now, or do we see the economy crater that much further just as Joe Biden comes to office.

Brian: Associated Press, White House correspondent, and NBC News political analyst, Jonathan Lemire. Thanks as always, Jonathan. Thank you very much.

Jonathan: Thank you. Let's do it again soon. Happy Holidays.

Copyright © 2020 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.