Brian Lehrer: It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone and history was made here in New York City today when a New York City nurse became, we believe the first person in the country to receive the coronavirus vaccine outside of a clinical trial. It happened during a news conference with governor Cuomo this morning at 9:25. Tomorrow New Jersey will administer its first dose of the same vaccine. We are off to the races, both states are expecting to receive the Moderna vaccine by next week in addition to this one, which is the Pfizer vaccine pending emergency approval from the Food and Drug Administration which has not yet come from Moderna.

Joining me now to discuss what the rollout in both states will look like are Sydney Pereira New York City reporter for Gothamist and Caroline Lewis, frequent health report contributor to Gothamist. Hi Caroline. Hi Sydney.

Caroline Lewis: Hi thanks for having me.

Sydney Pereira: Hi.

Brian: Sydney, tell listeners more if they didn't happen to see it on TV themselves what happened this morning.

Sydney: This morning, the first person in New York City and as you said like possibly the country received the Pfizer vaccine at a hospital in Queens, Sandra Lindsay. She is a critical care nurse who has been on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic efforts for several months now.

Brian: As you've reported Sydney, 250,000 of the first doses of the Pfizer vaccine arrived today in New York City is that the right number? I'm seeing some changes on that maybe.

Sydney: Around 250,000 are supposed to be arriving in New York City today and this week. That's around the right number in New York City of the Pfizer vaccine.

Brian: Who gets these first doses.

Sydney: There's two different groups that are being prioritized, the first or among the first are hospital workers, like the nurse we saw this morning. The first doses were shipped from a Pfizer manufacturing plant in Michigan, directly to New York City hospitals which will administer those shots to their workers. The other group our long-term care facility residents, which includes nursing homes and the city and New York state have opted into the federal government's program, which is a partnership with Walgreens and CVS in which those pharmacy staff will administer the vaccine at the facilities. That program could begin as soon as a week from today.

Brian: Caroline, new Jersey's first vaccination will take place tomorrow?

Caroline: Right. The rollout in New Jersey looks similar to New York in terms of who's being prioritized with healthcare workers and long-term care residents coming first.

Brian: Now, listeners, I want to open up the phones for any nurses or doctors or other frontline healthcare workers. What do you know and what do you think about the COVID-19 vaccine rollout so far? Are you ready to get one? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280. Is your hospital or healthcare center ready for distribution? Since you're in the front of the line to receive the vaccine, are you ready for it yourself? If you are a frontline healthcare worker, where are you on the scale from, "please give it to me yesterday" to "why am I your Guinea pig"? 646-435-7280, 646-435-7280.

For nurses and any other frontline healthcare workers this morning, how is your hospital or other facility prepared? Are you ready personally? Anything else you would like to say to help us report this story or your questions for our Gothamist reporters, Sydney Pereira and Caroline Lewis 646-435-7280, or you can tweet your question or comment at Brian Lehrer. Sydney, since you've reported recently that New York state has opted into the federal government's program to get nursing home residents vaccinated early, what will that look like?

Sydney: Through that program, the federal government is working with local jurisdictions, like New York City and New York State to run vaccination programs for long-term care facility residents. That includes places like nursing homes, but it also includes other types of adult care facilities as well. That is in partnership with CVS and Walgreens pharmacies.

Brian: Both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines require two doses a few weeks apart. How is New York City going to keep track of who has had the first dose of the shots and how will they know some people don't get a second shot, Sydney?

Sydney: Well the city and state have immunization registries and in the city, it's called the Citywide Immunization Registry. That's a record-keeping database for all the immunization records, which healthcare providers have access to if someone were to, say, get a shot at a different location. When you get a shot, you get a vaccination card to keep track of, first of all, which vaccine you received and also when you received so you can be informed about when to get that second dose.

Brian: Caroline on the New Jersey side, same question. Also, we know the Pfizer vaccine needs to be stored at an ultracold, negative 84 degrees Fahrenheit. How many places in New Jersey are equipped to meet that challenge?

Caroline: In New Jersey, there are 40 hospitals that are going to be receiving the vaccine. New York has 90 regional distribution centers that are ready to receive it. In New York City, the capacity between hospitals and the health department is currently about 2 million doses of the vaccine at one time.

Brian: Sydney, as we've talked about on the show before, and lots of people are talking about there are different communities in New York City that are skeptical at different rates about receiving the vaccines. How does the city plan on engaging with any communities to assure that they're immunized and that they have good information and not fake news?

Sydney: That's a great question. This morning on Monday, the city is launching a vaccine command center, and essentially several city agencies are going to work together to report who is getting the vaccine and lead engagement with communities who may be skeptical like you're saying. A part of the effort with that is essentially to in real-time track these types of issues and address them to ensure an equitable distribution.

Brian: Caroline, you recently reported that a Rutgers Eagleton poll found that 60% of New Jersey residents are welcoming a vaccine. Who are the 40% who aren't willing to get vaccinated so far, and what's the New Jersey government's plan to get them on board?

Caroline: Well, the overwhelming majority of people responding to the poll who said they were reluctant to take the vaccine cited concerns about potential side effects or a lack of information about the vaccine as the primary reason. To me, that indicates that people will become more comfortable with the idea of getting vaccinated as they see other people do it and as more information is disseminated. Interestingly, the number of people saying they would take the vaccine changed depending on how it was described. For instance, if it was called a first-generation vaccine versus a safe and effective vaccine, that changed the outcome.

Really it's an issue I think of these information campaigns getting out there.

Brian: Let's take a phone call, Adam in Rockland you're on WNYC. Hi Adam.

Adam: Hey, Brian. I was just calling in because with this vaccine I know a lot of us are really excited about it, but I wanted to comment on why EMS [sound cut] in the first wave.

Brian: You broke up there a little bit. Do I gather that you're an EMT and you want a vaccine earlier than you're being prioritized for it? Is that it?

Adam: Yes, as a community, the EMS community we sit behind the hospitals and the nursing homes but we're going into people's homes every day exposed to it.

Brian: Sydney, how about that? The EMS workers, where do they fall on the priority list, and is this controversial besides this caller?

Sydney: Yes, well, that's a great question. I think a lot of EMS workers have been bringing this up in various points in the past several days. Essentially in this first wave, as you know, and as you're taking issue with is the priority are healthcare workers and long-term care facility residents and their staff, but as more supplies are available in the coming months, the CDC's advisory committee on immunization practices is going to determine what that next phase is, the phase 1B.

Other essential workers like yourself would be coming in the next phases, but it's still within the first phase. It's just not first, the phase 1A like you've said. The advisory committee on the federal level with the CDC, place the two groups that we've been talking about in that phase 1A and so that's part of the reason here, but it's such a good point.

Brian: Caroline any different in New Jersey since you're covering New Jersey. I know these prioritization lists are state by state. They're not determined by the Centers for Disease Control or anywhere else at the federal level and they're fairly similar from state-to-state, but they're not entirely similar. Any particular comparisons that you can make between New York and New Jersey and what about EMS workers in particular?

Caroline: I know in New Jersey, their phase 1A, they said has included all healthcare workers and all workers in healthcare settings and they've identified about 650,000 people in that priority group and I think it includes EMS workers but I'm not sure exactly who will come first, second, third. I think it will likely be similar to New York.

Brian: Let's take another call. Here's John in Manhattan, a doctor, he says. Hi John, you're on WNYC.

John: Hi. I just want to tell you that the people who work for Health and Hospitals, which is the largest public healthcare system in the country have not yet received any definite communication from Mitchell Katz, who is the president and CEO as to when we will be getting the vaccine in terms of the hospital and when the staff will be vaccinated.

Brian: What would you like to hear? And what would--

John: I would like an e-mail from Dr. Katz saying when at least the frontline, the ICU docs, and the ER docs and nurses and ancillary staff will get their vaccinations and this is how you sign up for it.

Brian: What's your sense of your colleagues as well as your own feeling about this? Do you want it as fast as possible?

John: Brian, Elmhurst Hospital was the hardest hit hospital in the city last spring, and to not prioritize it and give it to them is the wrong thing. That's my feeling.

Brian: I don't know if you even followed the news this morning, this closely, but any reaction to the first dose of course, it's--

John: It can go into LIJ, which is Northwell.

Brian: Right, a private hospital.

John: Right. Mario Cuomo, his father had an intimate relation with the president and CEO of Northwell and that has continued to Andrew and Andrew looks at Health and Hospitals Corporation as an incidental.

Brian: Doctor, thank you for your call. Very informative. Sydney, it sounds like that caller might've given you a few new angles to follow-up on at Gothamist?

Sydney: Yes, thanks for the information. I know that the city officials and the mayor said this morning, five hospitals were getting doses of the vaccine today with more on Tuesday and Wednesday, but it's not clear which hospitals are in those numbers that were announced this morning. Thank you for the information.

Brian: Do you think they don't know yet because he was asking for Dr. Katz, the CEO of the Health and Hospitals Corporation to send an e-mail to his staff saying when and how they'll be able to get the vaccinations, especially for their frontline workers in the Health and Hospitals Corporation System of New York City? Do you think it's uncertain-- Does your reporting indicate that they don't know how fast and that's why he's not saying anything? Of course, he could be sending an e-mail even saying, "We don't know yet. We hope to find out in the next few days. Sit tight, here's how this works." Is there a lot of uncertainty?

Sydney: That's a good point. I don't know if Dr. Katz knows or doesn't have the answer to our caller's specific question, but I do know that based on my reporting, this undertaking overall is just so massive and it has to happen so quickly and there's possibly two different vaccines more being studied that could eventually roll out in the coming months. There's so many moving parts that I would-- in my reporting, there's been uncertainty and also just a lot to follow with so many different hospitals, vaccines, and entities, the city and the state working to just get it rolled out as quickly as possible.

Brian: With Sydney Pereira and Caroline Lewis from Gothamist on the rollout of the coronavirus vaccines in New York and New Jersey today and tomorrow. Susan a nurse in Hackensack, you're on WNYC. Hi Susan.

Susan: Hi, good morning. I'm just very concerned about the zero liability when it comes to these vaccines and I'm obviously for any shortcut to full health. I just worry that this is a little bit too short of a shortcut with the amount of testing they've been able to do for long-term mutagenic and carcinogenic effects on something. We haven't really seen what this is going to do cellularly in five years, we've only had nine months.

Brian: Are you hearing a lot of that from your colleagues too, Susan?

Susan: Sorry, say it again.

Brian: Oh, I just asked if you think what you just expressed that concern about long-term effects, is that common among your colleagues?

Susan: I'm hearing that a lot from the people that I work with, doctors, nurses were so excited. Obviously it's the best part about being in a first world country is having this kind of privilege, but it definitely feels like, too fast, too soon, too much of a shortcut.

Brian: Susan, thank you very much. Caroline, are you hearing that a lot?

Caroline: It's true that there is some uncertainty about long-term effects, like so far the vaccine is considered safe but for instance, with the rollout in the UK, there were a couple of doctors who had allergic reactions and so now that's something that needs to be studied more closely, like who is at risk for having an allergic reaction to the vaccine. In general allergic reactions to vaccines are pretty rare, but it's true that there is some more research that needs to be done in that area.

Brian: Caroline, anything to add from your health reporting background. My understanding is that generally vaccine side effects show up immediately or very quickly, they don't randomly show up five years later.

Caroline: I'm not an expert on that, to be honest, but in the recent research I've done just reporting on this, that is what I saw that people were saying that if someone has an EpiPen and can reverse any anaphylactoid reaction, that would make it safer but I'm definitely not an expert on that.

Brian: Here's Eugene who works at a hospital in Queens. Eugene, you're on WNYC. Hi there.

Eugene: Hi Brian. I just wanted to report it that at my hospital on Long Island, they are rolling out the vaccines this morning they've had their refrigerator orders for quite some time now. Some people are lining up, especially those that are older and maybe have more risk factors, nurses, doctors, and I think people are voting with their feet. Some are more reluctant to get it because of some uncertainty as you would have with any medical intervention which has rare, but does have side effects.

Like myself, I have COVID back in April, so I will probably get the vaccine, but I'm not going to the first in line to get it because I don't feel as much of an urgency, but I think it's definitely worthwhile and very important effort.

Brian: Eugene, thank you very much. Sydney, is there any requirement for healthcare workers in hospitals being discussed? I know somebody who has worked in a hospital and said there was a requirement for the flu vaccine that you either get the vaccine or wear a mask. Now I'm sure everybody's wearing a mask these days and any setting where they come in contact with patients, or maybe come in contact with anyone within hospitals, but is there any workplace requirement that will be imposed or that can be imposed?

Sydney: No, there's no requirement to get the vaccine that I'm aware of in any capacity. You can get the vaccine on a volunteer basis as depending on whether you're in the priority group and of course, the future priority groups that would b determined as this rolls out but no, there's not a requirement to get the vaccine anywhere that I'm aware of at any workplace.

Brian: James in Queens a cab driver, you're on WNYC. Hi James.

James: Thank you for taking my call. I was just calling to see if there's any way to consider the cab drivers in New York City, has been at risk as well because they have a much more of a contact with clients. Sitting behind a wheel, you have people breathing down your neck, on top of that you have to contact a client to either assist them to get into vehicle. Nothing is said regarding these job as being as a priority essential worker to get started from the beginning of the COVID until. Now we're talking about a vaccine we don't even know how in the world these people are protected and [crosstalk] contact tracing as well.

Brian: For you as a cab driver, what's the state of the art now in protecting yourself and your passengers, do you have plastic sheeting or a hard plastic barrier between the front seat and the back seat? Are you keeping the windows open, anything in particular that you're doing as someone concerned about coronavirus safety in your taxi?

James: This actually all the New York taxis are supposed to have bandit barriers, that's actually the case, but sometime those bandit barriers are not closed and even though they were closed, the client still needs to be assisted from Access-A-Ride client, the driver is compelled to come out a vehicle, touch their wheelchair or whatever walker they have. These contacts are most likely 24/7 for every driver. Once a client is infected now you driver, you will probably subject to the infected, then contact tracing you will not even know where you got it from. [crosstalk]

Brian: James, thanks. Let me see if I can get an answer for you. Sydney, do cab drivers appear on the New York priority list anywhere explicitly?

Sydney: I'd have to double-check some of these specific wording in the documents that New York City and New York State have laid out. However, the earlier phases, obviously not the first one like you've said, but the earlier phases are other essential workers who are just not able to stay home for their jobs. That's a whole host of different industries and how those industries would break down and which essential workers would come before others. That's like you said, we just don't know yet and that might not be the greatest answer, but at this point, we don't know.

I don't know if cab drivers are specifically listed, but I do know essential workers are a part of those earlier phases that will come down the pike, eventually

Brian: Caroline, anything to add from the New Jersey side on that?

Caroline: In New Jersey, it's similar. Essential workers are the second phase after health care workers and long-term care residents.

Brian: We will see, yes. From what I've heard informally until we get to that point where we don't have to worry about this anymore, a set of best practices if you're a driver or a passenger in a taxi is have a barrier if you can, either the hard plastic or the soft plastic sheeting that goes all the way across. I do believe as the caller said the yellow cabs in New York City have them, not all the car services have them. Also, keep windows open because that wind helps disperse the virus if one of you, either driver or a passenger is infected.

Another thing is not to use heating or air conditioning that recirculates air from inside the cab because then if one of you is infected, it's more likely to be blowing on the other one of you. Those are a couple of taxi tips that I'm familiar with. Let's see, Maria in Sunset Park, you're on WNYC. Hi Maria.

[off mic conversation]

Brian: Maria, are you there?

Maria: Yes I'm here.

Brian: Hi there, you are on air.

Maria: Oh good morning. My comment is about the doctor whose name I didn't catch because I stepped out of the room where I was listening to the radio, the doctor who spoke about the choice of a hospital that was made for the big fanfare of the first vaccine. I cannot concur enough when I first saw some headlines and I was listening this morning, why would anyone choose a hospital that's a private hospital when we have one of our own inner-city hospitals that everyone knows was the hardest hit by COVID-19, the hospital, the community?

The first thought that came to mind was, this is how to feel distrust in the public for how they're not being prioritized. Everyone has spoken so loudly about which are the hardest-hit communities, the brown and Black people of this city, which was the hospital, it's all documented and then to ignore all of that. It was such a low hanging fruit, such a no-brainer from every angle, public relations, whatever. I cannot understand it until maybe at the end, the doctor mentioned the connection that the governor's office has to have. [crosstalk]

Again, another this, more than anything, who is advising the governor? Sometimes I have the same reaction to who's advising the mayor? Politicians cannot be masters of all information. They rely on advices, but how are these people picked that someone would go with this?

Brian: It's certainly a bad luck at very least and Caroline, to the larger underlying question there, is there any pecking order in New York or New Jersey that takes race into account? The fact that, that we know who's gotten Coronavirus, disproportionately and who's gotten hospitalized and who's died of Coronavirus disproportionately, is that taken into account explicitly in any way in terms of who gets the vaccines when?

Caroline: I know there's been discussion in New York City about making sure that people in the hardest-hit communities are able to access the vaccine. I'm not exactly sure how that's going to be addressed. I think that's one of the things to keep an eye out for as the vaccine is rolled out. I think as Sydney said, there are a lot more details to look at and that's definitely one of the biggest issues.

Brian: Sydney, last question so far in New York City, at least COVID 19 testing is supposed to be free. Do we know if the vaccine will be free?

Sydney: The vaccine is supposed to be free for everyone, regardless of what kind of insurance they have or if they're uninsured but as my colleague actually pointed out in some of our reporting, the way healthcare costs are billed can be an imprecise science. This is another aspect I think we'll have to follow in the coming months of how actually it plays out in reality, but the vaccine itself is supposed to be free of charge.

Brian: Gothamist reporter, Sidney Pereira and Caroline Lewis, a frequent contributor to Gothamist with health reporting. Thank you both so much. We're talking about the initial rollout of the coronavirus vaccine in New York and New Jersey.

Caroline: Thanks, Brian.

Sydney: Thanks for having us.

 

Copyright © 2020 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.